How much time do you think before "normalcy" ends
Posted by Glum_Organization921@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 186 comments
17M: Personally I consider that when most people realize things aren't okay, and not just systematically, I mean when literally most people can't afford food, and the entertainment can't take the cover off what most people are feeling. For me this could be anytime between the next 5 or 10 years. Events like BOE, or AMOC and the El Nino may effect this, but this my general timeline. I don't know how to prepare for this, to be honest, i've been trying to tell my family to prepare but they just don't believe me. In my own opinion, this may be rambling, but it really just feels hopeless.
pacheckyourself@reddit
Unfortunately we are going through a turbulent time period. And we are the generations that are bearing the weight of witnessing history unfold. And listen, everyone saying “this isn’t normal” well, it really is. Read OLD books: Propaganda by Edward Bernays, actually read for yourself the communist manifesto by Karl Marx, any journals about certain time periods. Everything that’s happening, has already happened, just new packaging. Part of the propaganda to get us here is pushing the “collapse” narrative. Tyranny, revolution, peace, repeat.
Im trying to shift my perspective, looking for solutions on how to actually chip in and help out. Yes, shit fucking sucks and I hate how expensive everything is, but as humans we do what we do best, figure it out.
Green-Circles@reddit
Yeah, the relative calm & prosperity (for America,Western Europe & Australia/New Zealand at least) we've had since WW2 ended has been "not normal".
NoExternal2732@reddit
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt8694364/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
I found watching the show "Years and Years" to be a realistic depiction of collapse...it's the slow eroding of the food chain, the surveillance, the loss of empathy...collapse gets delivered in small doses, in such a way that you don't notice, there's not some big event.
Like orange juice from florida, chocolate, coffee prices, we are already eexperiencing collapse of those industries, but people just shrug it off: "Those are luxuries." "I didn't even like orange juice that much."
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
The show was alright, but:
Top-Albatross7765@reddit
Exactly, we just saw something similar on our smartphones where a genocide was documented and shown to the world, live, on mobile phones, and the perpetrators just shot or bombed the people (journalists) who were documenting the genocide. Barely anyone was actually moved enough to do anything about it. I don't have much hope for humanity (which is probably why I'm here!).
DryDrunkImperor@reddit
It’s good but they still had to shoehorn in some horseshoe theory nonsense which put me off a bit.
Final_boss_1040@reddit
This is a great series
ResistantRose@reddit
Telling my kid her beloved tomatoes are on hiatus until local tomatoes start coming in was really hard for me to tell her. Hard in that it was a "Oh, we're here," moment of collapse.
the_real_maddison@reddit
My husband is a grocer and has already had to explain shortages to his customers.
StrongShallots@reddit
Just ignore the hopium ending.
Killer_Method@reddit
Spoilers
twelve_tony@reddit
I'm going to check this out tonight, thanks for the rec
so_hot_right_meow@reddit
God I love this show. It's been eerily accurate in a lot of its predictions. They even got the year the Queen died!
Cicadasladybirds@reddit
Agree, fantastic show, so realistic.
TrickyProfit1369@reddit
Shifting baseline syndrome.
Whenwhateverworks@reddit
The old world makes way for the new, i hope that on the bright side the latest oil shock will wake more people up about how hopelessly dependant on fossil fuels for our modern lives.
The_World_Is_A_Slum@reddit
Bro, it hasn’t been normal during your lifetime. Sorry. Something broke 20-odd years ago and things have started slipping faster every year. Enjoy the small things while they exist and remember as much as you can.
Slipsonic@reddit
I'm 43, you're right. It was 20 something years ago. I don't know what happened.
Whenwhateverworks@reddit
It was the a slow decline after the GFC imo
RudyGreene@reddit
It was Windows Vista (2007).
Takre@reddit
They should have realized they had peaked at Windows Me (Millennium Edition). RIP.
Safe_Chicken_6633@reddit
The last time we had a below average monthly global temperature was February 1985. And we have created far, far more habitat loss, greenhouse gas emissions, species extinction, and debt in the last 41 years than in all the years previous to that.
relianceschool@reddit
Limits to Growth projected declines starting somewhere between 2025 and 2050:
Gaya Herrington's 2020 update found that we're still on track for that, and the trajectory of recent events confirms that for me subjectively as well. If your family & friends aren't moved by this, you might have to start doing what you can on your own.
As a 17 year-old you don't have a ton of resources and personal agency, so I definitely understand if you feel powerless or stuck. But taking care of your health and fitness, reducing your consumption, acquiring some basic tools, and developing skills for a declining world are all keys to surviving the future, and you're not depending on other for that. Alex Steffen also has a good take on the climate advantages of being young, which I recommend to anyone in your position.
Wooden-Rooster8203@reddit
If anything, I think it'll happen faster.
888HA@reddit
If anything, I hope it will happen faster.
TheIrishWanderer@reddit
Why, though? Collapse is inevitable, but I'd rather enjoy some years of comfort before trudging through a radioactive wasteland in the hopes of finding some cans of uncontaminated beans.
sxmstar@reddit
You could say faster than expected!
TheIrishWanderer@reddit
This is the new normal.
DelayedTism@reddit
For those of us aware, normalcy ended looooong ago. For the rest of humanity, with their heads in the sand, they'll cling to the hypernormalized hyperreality until the very end.
RPOR6V@reddit
Maybe get a girlfriend too
mrsduckie@reddit
But don't bring any children into this hellscape please
thebaine@reddit
Seriously. 18-28 is some of peak life. It’s as free as you’ll ever be. Don’t let it pass you by worrying about things you can’t control.
bobjohnson1133@reddit
functional melancholic is a fantastic recommendation for anyone feeling dread about our current state of affairs. everything about him is authentic and SOOTHING, especially for sensitive folks like me.
ideknem0ar@reddit
Seriously. I play it at night sometimes for ASMR.
twelve_tony@reddit
wrt to philosophy it can be healthy to read some angrier stuff too. Mark Fisher for example. Also people like Andreas Malm. just seeing the crisis treated with real seriousness is cathartic in itself.
smajliiicka@reddit
I'm good at foreseeing futute, yet I can't see anything past 2030... take care
ciciNCincinnati@reddit
Someone just told me 45 of the 50 states are under extreme drought: maybe it was extreme but wow! And it’s only gonna get worse every year because it’s the planet warms. We won’t have as much rain.
Bored_Acolyte_44@reddit
There is nothing normal about what is happening right now.
JapaneseCDBonusTrack@reddit
People are still going on about their daily lives as if nothing is happening. I believe that's what OP meant.
dinah-fire@reddit
I think that part (people going on about their daily lives as if nothing is happening) is going to last *way* longer than people on this sub expect. People go about their daily lives in the middle of active warzones and immediately after natural disasters, people are going to keep on keeping on for as long as they possibly can.
Kootenay4@reddit
Yep, if OP is somewhere like North America or Europe there is a long, long way to go
People are still going to work, going out to eat, chilling with friends and family in Ukraine and Lebanon and Iran and Syria. I mean, what else can people do exactly?
Bored_Acolyte_44@reddit
Get in on the effort to counter whatever the threat is. They can act different, they can do different things and adjust their own behavior according to whatever the hell is happening.
All of us have that power.
ideknem0ar@reddit
Yeah, but the easiest thing is to just passively accept what's happening and pretend it's normal and all ok. Those are the people I work with. They're not going to budge from their fantasy.
Kootenay4@reddit
It's not so much a fantasy, as it is just acceptance that individually we don't have the power to change anything. I do believe that if enough people act, things can change, there is strength in numbers. But that's just what it is, it requires numbers.
I try to live the most low carbon lifestyle I can, heck I literally work in the field of environmental restoration, and I try my best to help bring awareness of environmental issues to the people around me. I know nothing's probably gonna change because of my actions and choices... but I still do it, I guess, because the alternative is not doing it, and might as well.
Bored_Acolyte_44@reddit
I know, I know those people too. They are all in on keeping that wheel spinning towards destruction. It's how we've ended up here.
I was in a fire once where there were only a few of us helping people get out of a burning building, but hundreds of people standing around just filming it as it burned down. Nine people didn't make it out of that building and I think about how if only a few more had acted that number would be zero or closer to it literally every day.
People just don't act, even when there is a direct threat facing their fellows right in front of them. At least most people don't.
Other people might have a different take, but that anecdotal evidence from that night is etched pretty deep in my brain.
Thick-Ad5738@reddit
Are you perchance a consultant. You spew a lot of words and manage to convey nothing of importance
Bored_Acolyte_44@reddit
*points to the reddit rules*
Have you been banned here before? I have. Perhaps you too will get their eventually.
Thick-Ad5738@reddit
Maybe. Maybe i have already been banned. Who knows. Its a mistery
Spore_Please@reddit
If a large portion of society stopped, that would be abnormal.
Of course, that’s what it will take. But many people have to keep going because there aren’t adequate mutual aid systems in place because so many people have to keep going because if they don’t they lose everything, their kids starve and, they lose access to healthcare, etc…
It will take robust mutual aid networks across vast areas that can adjust if disrupted. Much of society is not there yet.
NyriasNeo@reddit
"I mean when literally most people can't afford food"
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
And i quote, "Percent of adults age 20 and older with overweight, including obesity: 72.4%". And this is after we waste 1/3 of our food.
So how are 72.4% people literally become overweight when they "literally" can't afford food?
wendyme1@reddit
Food quality for one thing. Cheap fast food isn't that nutritious but can still make a person fat. Also, just because people can afford any kind of food, whether it makes them fat or not, doesn't mean they will be able to afford it in the future. Possibly even in the very near future.
monkeysknowledge@reddit
Normalcy is a moving target. Extreme weather is already normalized. The daily extreme weather events taking place across the globe barely make the headlines these days. The only way one is aware of the devastating heat wave in India right now is if you follow climate related news, most people don’t and also people have become desensitized to it.
The step change which will feel like an break from normalcy is when the shelves are empty. That’s when the panic sets in and that’s what I’d recommend preparing for. What you don’t want to be worried about when that happens is going out to the grocery store. When everyone is panicking you want to be focused on understanding the emergency and the impact. You don’t want to be standing in line at Costco trying to buy as much toilet paper as you can - you want to be calm and patient. Having long term food storage and short term food that you rotate can help you stay calm and patient.
We have 30 days of long term food storage as well as a rotating supply of canned goods and basic first aid supplies. When the shelves go empty having back ups will help you stay calm.
jaybsuave@reddit
Yep, I have a 30 day food supply, lifestraw, and survival pack. Going to buy a gun this summer.
nothankeww@reddit
i’m treating it like pre-Covid lockdown era. If you were paying attention, you were paying attention and nobody else was. I’m a few weeks ahead. Now I’m gonna hunker down and lay low.
Any-Perception-828@reddit
Normalcy ended a decade ago. The decline is slow.
Kootenay4@reddit
The me that graduated high school in the early 2010s would definitely think the world has collapsed in 2026.
Even ignoring the greater environmental and geopolitical issues. Just the difficulty of finding stable employment, stable housing and the rapidly escalating costs of essential goods would be unimaginable to me when I was 18. I actually thought I’d have a shot at getting a reasonably good job and buying a modest but decent home as long as I worked hard and got a good degree.
I’m sure in 2036 I’ll be looking back at 2026 as the good old days as i work aimlessly for slavecorp(tm) to make enough credits so they don’t send me to the vaporizer
twelve_tony@reddit
damn 2036 you has a job at Slavecorp?? 2036 me is jealous, I'm a 'volunteer' at Slavecamp
The-Manque@reddit
Not to brag, but I just got an internship at Camp Internment. It’s open-ended, and I get to live on site. They’re really strict about enforcing that part.
No_Recognition_9354@reddit
Lucky dick, I’m stuck making 70 cents a month as a scrap-clad burger city insurgent
twelve_tony@reddit
wow burger city, i heard you still have the power on for a few days a week. is it true that you have lights that come on at night??
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollapseMusic/comments/vnwdkg/slowly_at_first_then_all_at_once_shriekback/
floryhawk@reddit
A surprise Shriekback reference! Hooray! [One of my favorite live shows ever btw :).]
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
They score high on the collapse-music-o-meter:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollapseMusic/search/?q=Shriekback
floryhawk@reddit
Priests and Cannibals, prehistoric animals Everybody happy as the dead come home.
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
Although less on-the-nose, Metric is another band that scores high.
RoundedTripleSquares@reddit
"Sooner than expected"
floryhawk@reddit
Five years max.
RightsForRobots@reddit
~~Exactly~~ Exponentially.
kingtacticool@reddit
Itll happen suddenly on a case by case basis. Overall I expect the decline to just get slowly steeper.
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Ree_For_Thee@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harambe
Checks out (Harambe May 25th 2016).
escfantasy@reddit
Collapslowly.
TenOfZero@reddit
Exactly this, and this is why normalcy doesn't end, it just changes. Most people just don't notice becasue its a slow boil.
the_real_maddison@reddit
Billionaires have said "we want people to subscribe to everything and be happy for it."
TenOfZero@reddit
Well, that thought is one thing I just can't subscribe to.
Orange_Indelebile@reddit
Yep in my personal estimate the true if normalcy was 2006/7, when the world reached peak conventional oil production; it escaped the attention of everyone except a few specialists, because fraking and shale oil production picked up at the same time and hid the true peak. However, this tiny shock started a series of economic disruptions which revealed structural issues everywhere in developed economies, the first and biggest one of all at the time was the subprime crisis. Everything other crises afterwards are the consequences of the same issues structural economic weakness and energy flow disruptions, ... Euro debt cruises, Evergrande, now the war in Iran ...etc.
That's the economic collapse we are living through now.
At the same time we are living through the biological/climate collapse, we all know to which we can names a few recent crises like continuous climate catastrophes around the world, COVID, various avian flus, antibiotic resistant infections, water conflicts, ....
agent139@reddit
Even if AMOC collapses (it very well may), it's probably not going to be like a switch turning at human timescales. "Very rapid" is decades.
Regardless, I think "normalcy" will continue to be unevenly distributed for a little while yet. And media will attempt to project an image of it long after it's already gone (which is already true today).
The world of 2050 will probably seem pretty alien to anyone born before 2000, that much seems certain.
Bavarian_Raven@reddit
And it’s only 24 years away :/
CatLadyAM@reddit
I would argue that the last ~250 years has been abnormal — in the sense of human experiences. And the planet is course correcting us back into “normal” human experience (at the expense of a gradual mass extinction). Expect more shortages as what the world wants is literally impossible for it to provide.
Human populations relied mostly of sustenance farming, famine, epidemics, and other “natural” causes to balance human populations. Around the time of the Industrial Revolution, human populations began to soar while the destruction of nature in every capacity also did.
Humans are the plague. And there’s no stopping it. Try to enjoy what you can of life and try to do no harm so you can live with yourself. That’s all you can do with what’s here and coming.
xena_lawless@reddit
One thing to understand is that keeping the masses of people feeling hopeless, powerless, atomized, destabilized, etc. is a key part of how our ruling class maintain permanent minoritarian/oligarchic rule.
Whether you're outnumbered 10 to 1 or 100 to 1, when you are heavily outnumbered, it is absolutely vital that you make sure the masses of people feel too hopeless, disempowered, atomized, subjugated, etc. to even think about fighting against their oppressors.
"You let one ant stand up, and they all might stand up. Those puny little ants outnumber us 100 to 1. And if they ever figure that out, there goes our way of life!"-Hopper, A Bug's Life
That explains a lot of of the collapse-related observations that ruling class people don't take seriously.
Because for the underclasses, things seem to be collapsing, because they are.
But for the ruling class, destabilized conditions for the underclasses are great for them, because the more destabilized, impoverished, and hopeless the underclasses are, the less threatening and more easily exploitable they are also, which maintains their way of life.
It's important to see through this strategy and not fall into the trap of feeling hopeless and powerless, because that is exactly the conditioning and condition that our ruling parasite/kleptocrat class want and need the masses of people to be in, so that people don't ever even think about standing up to fight.
Because the reality is that even a few people standing up can make a huge difference.
librae_vongehl@reddit
Normalcy is returning. Total, existential, philia-ethnos multi faction global warfare.
Safety, convenience, luxury, consumerism et al ... are the anomaly.
stephenph@reddit
We are already there, if it was not for credit (and even inspite of it) people would be starving..... No good movies or tv since COVID,.... The weather has gone to crap... Politics as about as vial as it has ever been... Etc
Thick-Ad5738@reddit
At some point, you have to continue with your life. You do what you can to change things, and you decide to what extent you will do it.
But just as we are in this situation because a great majority do not gives a damn, it is also true that if we understand the problem, it helps no one if we give in to despair.
Even if there is no hope we contunue to struggle against our system, and at the same time cherish the beauty that still remains in the world.
As for preparing, for example, i am not rich, so that dream of the self sufficient homestead is unavailable for me. So i prepare for the stages i can prepare for. I have a few silver coins, in case currency devaluates, some canned food and grains for surviving temporary food supply disruptions, etc. I cannot afford more right now. If a full collapse comes, i am toast.
I try to create conscience with the people i know although its unlikely u will convince enough persons to.change our government or our system.
So, thats that. Stay informed, do what you can and do not worry too much about what you cannot do.
PetuniaPicklePepper@reddit
Covid killed "normalcy" (it's ongoing and continues to damage and disable). People "live" like things are normal again.
dcmathproof@reddit
About ten years ago... Perhaps 15
Rossdxvx@reddit
I remember back in 2014 thinking that things were really stagnant, directionless, and just not going anywhere. Everything was getting more and more expensive. I was living in Portland at the time and it was in the process of a construction boom where these really ugly, overpriced high rise apartment buildings were being put up left and right. Rent, food, and everything else was going up and one could no longer survive on a meager salary/income anymore.
Moved back to MI in 2015 just in time for the rise of Trump. MAGA signs were literally everywhere and right wing populism was in ascent. Half the population lost their minds and things were never quite the same again. This country was ripped apart overnight. This was the point when I became fully collapse aware.
However, going back even further, I remember life pre-9/11 as a sort of time of innocence. I would say that the check was truly due when the clocks turned to 2000. In all of my research, I believe that the truly pivotal moment was the late seventies and early eighties. This was the last time when it was still possible to get onto the off ramp on this highway of self-destruction, but people chose 40+ years of greed and overconsumption instead.
xaqaria@reddit
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/09/20/161501075/high-food-prices-forcast-more-global-riots-ahead-researchers-say
brezhnervouz@reddit
Most people will not recognise its happening until the decline starts accelerating significantly
Chused@reddit
Normalcy is behind us for now. I see a lot of opinions of when that ended, my two cents is Covid.
Good_Briefs@reddit
The normal we had is gone, I think. I really am not sure how we move past this administrations damage to the various institutions, be it regarding climate change, renewable energy, EVs, data and privacy, environmentalism, health, education, sciences...the list of things we will have to rebuild from scratch is so much on top of a rapidly expanding national debt, erosions of personal freedoms and other shit on a day-to-day basis.
Like, all of this would have been difficult to deal with under competent and knowledgeable leadership, as it stood. Now? Fuck bro, we're cooked
ideknem0ar@reddit
It's really amazing to see that one CAN rule by EO & pointing the imperial finger Anyone hear from the Parliamentarian lately? Didn't think so. Ratchet go brrr, by design.
Konradleijon@reddit
It depends in some places normally has ende d
rick-reads-reddit@reddit
I rember being scared around your age also. some of this is just being uncertain about life after high school, some is what you chose to believe from social media.
im not gonna tell you theres nothing to worry about but every generation has had things to worry about. personally im very concerned about where AI and robotics are headed. haven't these people watched terminator and robocop?
there have been predictions of peak oil for a long time. i just read an article today that GM is backing away from electric trucks. they probably have some insight the rest of us dont.
we arent helping the earth but its gone through transformations before. science tells us this, Pangea, poles swapping, continental drift. these things arent going to happen and everything stays the same as weve had for the past 100 years.
if you are concerned start doing some prepping of your own. watch survival videos. get some life straws and water purification tablets.
we've had oil issues before. this isnt new and neither is war (not trying to say its ok).
my brother passed away at 19, Any of us can go at anytime. there are no guarantees in life.
its ok to be scared but live a bit. things will work out however they are supposed to.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
Yesterday!
Yelworc0242@reddit
when I was a kid we had regular snow in Europe. we have tomatoes in the store which actually tasted like tomatoes. we had flies on the windscreen and we didn't get raspberries in the middle of winter.
PeaOk5697@reddit
Norwegian here. My grandparents are in their 90s. They say the climate they grew up with isn't what it used to. On the west coast, we barely get any snow anymore. Some areas you can plant palm trees in your garden and they will survive the winters
the_real_maddison@reddit
As a kid in Colorado USA, there used to be FEET of snow on the ground around Halloween, so much so that when you were designing your costume, it would behoove you to be something that can be "snow tolerant." Like a snowy owl or a lumber jack. Otherwise your costume would be "ruined" because you'd have to bundle up with your boots and jacket. If you wanted to be a ballerina the effect would be completely lost because to trick or treat outside you'd need to protect against the inevitable elements.
Recently, we had the most damaging fire our state has ever seen, the Marshall Fire and it was IN DECEMBER. It ravaged my home town and it was literally in "the snowiest month" we usually had.
Shit is fucked.
Bipogram@reddit
As a child (70s) all of the above. And were taught that Florida, in faraway America, was a state with a huge output of oranges.
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1sr15ht/removed_by_moderator/
youngbeezy88@reddit
As a kid (I’m 37) we would get a giant box of oranges for Christmas every year from my grandparents in Florida
cryptopo@reddit
I think we just get acclimated to the slow decline of things.
My grandkids will be in their thirties growing their own food and reading about the Water Wars on the news and asking the same question.
Cptawesome23@reddit
It took Rome, 1000 years to collapse, our collapse will be so slow that it will seem normal to you because everything that changes will take years to go into effect
jorgom@reddit
I haven’t felt “normalcy” in my close environment since 2018.
FastPraline3322@reddit
Normalcy already ended, you're just young enough for the abnormal to be normal
DestroyTheMatrix_3@reddit
Anywhere between 1 day and 1000 years.
threecheersforeve@reddit
Do you think all this is normal?
Ok_Role_6215@reddit
What's normalcy? There's no such thing.
prostateExamination@reddit
youre 17 which mean you were 11 when covid started… what is this normalcy?? we have been in panic mode for almost 20 years
gustavessidehoe@reddit
OP has never seen normal :'(
NerdyKid1101@reddit
Unfortunately there's a reason dystopian societies exist and have existed. People are complacent. Even when most realize shit is horrible, there is still just enough people to say "I'm doing well enough, my head is above water, best not worry about it." and viola, 1984 becomes normalcy.
twelve_tony@reddit
just to add another layer of dystopia, Orwell became part of the school curriculum mainly because his work is anticommunist. whatever the merits of his work the reason he is so widely read is because of his usefulness as propaganda. (this is why, famously, the CIA bankrolled the animated Animal Farm movie that gets shown in schools). to this day people describe communist societies as "totalitarian," with the implication that USSR was equivalent to Nazi Germany, but the very concept of 'totalitarianism' was intentionally developed as a way to discredit communism in favor of "free" societies like this wonderful country that I live in
EnlightenedSinTryst@reddit
Agreed, the viola is the most dystopian instrument
vinegar@reddit
The cello of consequences rarely arrives tuned
NafuryTheBigFatCow@reddit
hahaha
Ajaw86@reddit
I dont suppose itll hit everyone at the same time. It'll be gradual and then speed up, starting with the poorest in society. Their group will get bigger as more poor to middle class fall into it.
Itll spiral pretty quickly up wards though
democritusparadise@reddit
Normalcy ended in 2016. The next stage of the collapse in the US will when the Rocky Mountian drought catastrophe and the fuel crisis bite and destroy almost all agricultural productivity in the entire Rocky Mountain watershed.
jcpham@reddit
Negative one decade, give or take
Killer_Method@reddit
Normalcy is already gone for many. And many, arguably, never experienced "normalcy." The question isn't "when will it end?" but rather, "When will it end for each of us?" Think of it like a rising tide (or rising sea level). It starts with the poorest of society, but will eventually subsume the 99%. A precious few intend to remain dry, and expect to enjoy new beachfront property.
DorkHonor@reddit
Somewhere around 2040ish. The definition of normal will keep sliding until then, but somewhere around there is when stuff is so fucked that everyone will have to really reckon with it and accept that the old normal is never coming back in their or their children's lives.
Kevmandigo@reddit
I see it as a sliding scale with a lot of custom variable input levers.
Weeks, years, or decades depending on the levers pulled and in which order.
vinegar@reddit
OP, this is the big question and all anyone can do is make educated guesses at an answer because it’s unprecedented in human history. We can learn from small scale models like the collapse of Rome or the USSR, but this is different (probably). Unfortunately I think this post might be taken down because it’s a Common Question, even though it’s generating a lot of good discussion.
FlowerDance2557@reddit
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
🤣🤣 Oh that is brilliant!
Dull-Astronomer6073@reddit
Brother, you are in for a ride .
MegCaz@reddit
The AMOC still has till 2100. Weather will continue to get more hinky with every year requiring situational awareness for your area and when traveling. Food prices are about to skyrocket further (I think) due to the looming fertilizer shortages and that still won't cause total collapse. Keep living your life, not in fear but with purpose. Find a profession you don't mind and a spot to live that makes you happy; hang out with friends and be close with your loved ones. It can feel like the world is ending every single day in the news but it isn't and there is no prediction for when it could for sure happen. Living life like it's already over because you doomscroll too often isn't going to help you. Finding things to be thankful for, creating memories and building a life worth living are all we normal folk can do besides vote.
Yog-Sothoth113@reddit
There’s gonna be an o shit moment when the global food system collapses and then it will be like oh no we can no longer hide in our air conditioned spaces. Oops
Grinagh@reddit
That's the thing I think people will act as if everything is okay and normal even when things start falling apart
twelve_tony@reddit
none of us know how to prepare for this. there is a broad general strategy that has some support from history, which is to lean into community ties and localization, but it is not something an individual can implement themselves. people say get out of big cities and shoot for a place with a population around 30k because this is the sweet spot for existing resources (big enough to have hospitals, infrastructure, some stockpiles etc.) vs. ability to adapt (small enough to be at least not impossible to keep supplied under 'involuntary degrowth' (compared to the NYCs of the world that have such high resource needs that they simply cannot function once the system loses a certain amount of capacity).
do what you can to be close geographically to friends family and allies, if you can, and don't linger in vulnerable cities, or if you must, stay flexible and be ready to drop plans and adapt. beyond that, do basic emergency preparedness stuff like you'd be advised to do in places vulnerable to hurricanes (dried food and ability to function through blackouts). but by that point you are already running out of ways to boost your chances further, unless you can get into an intentional community based around sustainable agriculture (good luck), like now.
we are all vulnerable. even extreme prepping, if done in an individualistic way (as opposed to founding a sustainable community of some kind), can only help so much over the long haul. somehow you need to make peace with this. grieve the loss of whatever future you thought you had instead and live and plan with the knowledge that we live in a dangerous crumbling world, not the post-history shopping mall/suburb that Americans thought we were living in. the only realistic goal is to 'bend not break,' but there is no way to avoid at least having to bend.
and I'm sorry kiddo, we fucked up bad. it's just a fact
Mountain_Mirror_3642@reddit
I really wish more older people were willing to say this. I know many here probably are, but I mean more broadly in society. I can only do what I can with the world I inherited, and there's no question people under age 50 or so are going to have it so much harder than the couple generations before them at some point
twelve_tony@reddit
I'm young enough (32m) to see both sides, and it's really my parents' generation that bear the most responsibility (specifically the rich/powerful, but one can feel some resentment at how blase people in general have been about the whole thing, whether they had any real power or not). still, at this point it still feels like a big difference in life experience. like when I was growing up it felt like there was still going to be some solution (even if that was never true). back then it was easier to believe that society wouldn't just 'let it happen,' but uh... well we let it happen, and now it's happening. I also teach college students and I hear a lot about how it looks from that pov.
These days I look for opportunities to go off script and talk about these civilization-level issues at least a few times every semester. The reaction is usually that it's refreshing to hear someone with some authority say the quiet thing out loud, since I know (it frustrates me just as much) that even today most people are still acting like somehow everything is fine. Especially when these kids are at the point in their lives where they are thinking seriously about the future and they know at some level that what the standard advice they are getting is more and more out of touch with reality every passing year. And they deserve to hear the truth stated out loud; really that's the least they deserve.
It's bleak though, I cannot lie.
alcohall183@reddit
ANY event that might push that 5-10 yr timeline would make it go to less than 2 years. pandemic. a war. a famine. ANYTHING.
Environmental_Art852@reddit
My husband and son don't believe me. I Only have a rack of food. I can't take their negativity so I quit and am planning on taking care of myself after
icequeen_401@reddit
I don’t know, but my son is 23 and I try to be honest with him about how bad it is and will get. He is attempting to finish college and I walk a fine line between encouraging him, being honest about the job market, and telling him to enjoy his life now before it gets markedly worse. I advise you to do the same.
d1scord1a@reddit
normalcy will never end because its just whatever you've adapted to. its a slow and steady decline like boiling a frog
coredweller1785@reddit
I would read about Hyper normalization in the Soviet union.
We are going through that right now
BigBossBelcha@reddit
Last year for a lot of places in the world
LonkFromZelda@reddit
Two more weeks.
horror-@reddit
Never. "Normal" will just keep getting redefined.
Right now, "normal" is American children starving on days they don't go to school, and American people dying of preventable illness in the streets. We just walk around them on the way to work and complain about the smell. That's the normal thing to do- but it was not always like this. "Normal" is being priced out of food options at the grocery store. "Normal" is POTUS adding 20% taxes on imported goods we need to survive while providing huge tax relief to those who need it the least.
"Normal" is a moving target, and "Normalcy" will never go away.
kexpi@reddit
Don't worry about the time. Worry about the outcome.
When this happens, how exactly will this affect you? Less food? No water? Insecure shelter? No resources?
Prepare for the actual scenario to unfold on you and on your family. Obviously one can't ever be fully prepared. So part of preparing is acceptance.
Prepare for what you know will happen. Accept what you don't know will happen.
GiftToTheUniverse@reddit
Nothing will seem normal when food becomes visibly scarce. I know there are already people who are hungry and prices are high but for the time being you can still walk into any store or restaurant and get just about anything you want.
When there are foods that can’t be found for sale or when restaurants have to strike half the items off their menu and houses are broken into for the contents of the pantry, that will be signs we can’t ignore.
stupidouroboros@reddit
I think we're going to be alright bud
Slipsonic@reddit
5-10 years is way longer than the timescale in my head. I was thinking more like late winter/early spring '27 once the fertilizer and oil shortage effects are locked in.
96-62@reddit
The US is clearly disintegrating. It may not be completely irreversible, but the damage being done to the country by its leadership is extreme. The rest of the world is starting to smoke a little as well, but not nearly so bad so far.
5-10 years time, there will be more problems with the food supply, but unless the world has wilfully destroyed itself by then, that should remain managable.
When does it all go wrong? I don't know. I kind of imagined a thoughtful, managed, sensible decline resembling the thoughtful, rational, sensible ascent. Perhaps not calm exactly, but not so stupid. My entire model of how this plays out is wrong, because Trump is just an anomaly. Is he just self destructively stupid, like someone with the dementia he may very well have? Or is it all some malign plan, create enough chaos and damage and you can buy up the distressed property at very low, far below market (well, previous market) value? I'm really not a religious person, but I keep reassessing the possibility that Trump is the literal, actual antichrist. It just fits so well. What the fairy cakes is wrong with that guy?
Minute-Judgment9472@reddit
I’m religious and collapse aware. There are tons of us, we just don’t post on Reddit for obvious reasons. I fully believe that the antichrist will arrive on the scene in my lifetime and people like Peter Thiel and the oligarchs are preparing the way wittingly or not.
123ihavetogoweeeeee@reddit
It's already the ended. Things only get worse.
Minute-Judgment9472@reddit
The fun times are already over if you have any strikes against you like being poor or disabled. Plenty of room still left in the middle class for able bodied resourceful neurotypical people in America though. They will live in denial for some time yet.
Distinguishedflyer@reddit
tuesday.
iamsolate@reddit
venus
Distinguishedflyer@reddit
yeppers.
Isaiah_The_Bun@reddit
lol but its already wednesday!
perfect timing 😂😅🍿
Pisces93@reddit
Shit hasn’t felt normal since 2016. But a more serious response is fairly soon. The bread and circus is getting expensive
Eastern-Heart9863@reddit
Death by 1000 cuts. We won’t notice it really as it’ll just be a gradual transition
Deguilded@reddit
Depends how long this strait clusterfuck continues. Normalcy is kinda staggering along, but a loss of gasoline inputs could turn that staggering into a faceplant once the strategic reserves run out and the slack is gone.
Which I think is right about... now.
suzyqsmilestill@reddit
The normalcy is already gone.
Tearakan@reddit
It's speeding up now. This summer is gonna be brutal.
d00000med@reddit
Yeah, if crops fail this year things will change quickly.
I hear there's a fertiliser shortage and a hot summer coming so it could be a very rough year
StarlightLifter@reddit
Yeah that’s what I’m fearing
futuriztic@reddit
You call this normal?
aubreypizza@reddit
He’s 17, this is all he knows.
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
I don't think we're going to get a hard line in the sand that says, "This is when normalcy ended." Its going to be different for everyone. Don't give in to hopelessness. If I were in your place, I would take this time to learn as much as you can. Someone once said, don't necessarily try to be a prepper, be a preparedness minded person. Surviving the times ahead is going to be primarily a mental game. So I would say prepare for that game now, you have a leg up, just by being collapse aware.
iDrinkDrano@reddit
Normalcy is always ending. The normalcy I was raised with (34) is vastly different than the normal you were raised with.
m0nk37@reddit
This winter will be the start. Because there wont be a winter.
Ok_Repeat_1995@reddit
Between April and July 2027 is gonna be my bet. Than the economy will collapse in October.
youngbeezy88@reddit
I’m 37 and it’s felt pretty bleak for a while but now it truly does feel hopeless. The boomers were the last ones to live the American dream but even they are being hit with it now.. every generation is being bled dry. The younger generations were forced in chains in the form of inflated student loans ….
I can’t imagine being a counselor or something right now. 10 years ago I feel it would have been easy enough to gaslight everyone into thinking their problems are their fault and can be fixed by just getting their life together but now…. We need to be the change but everyone is too busy pointing their fingers, blaming elsewhere, and throwing around the word “lazy” rather than overburdened.
CarbonRod12@reddit
If the U.S. somehow suspends or doesn't have elections this November, that would absolutely signal the end of "normalcy" (or what is left of it).
Isaiah_The_Bun@reddit
"normalcy" is an interesting way to put it. id say we'll have the first major breadbasket failure this year and next year will be multiple. sooo.... im thinking two years before everyone in North America will be experiencing what youve described.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
The UK is in a fuss after they found out that their department of defense published a report that the PM's office has apparently tried to vanish. I haven't read the report but I heard a host of the Guardian news podcast interviewing a scientist about it and it was the first time I heard someone find their fear of the reality.
"So how long does this report say we have until things start getting really bad? 5 years? 10? 15?"
"Closer to 4 years" years"
I forget what she said in response but it was that pants shitting moment of realizing this isn't a future problem, it's now. All this that's happening in the world is already a climate thing.
The only thing that makes this a future problem is faith and belief in civilization is stronger than facts and reality. The planet is on fire, people are dying from heat waves that were bad before but not massively lethal, wars/threats over resource rich spaces... all this stuff we're dealing with is what was warned as the beginning. It's happening.
Im really happy they tried to bury this report since more people will read it and it will get international coverage. It's about the collapse of the biosphere, too, so actually focusing on the important part of it, rather than the numbers that give room for politicians to pervert meaning.
Im just so done with the people who are wrong and constantly pushing harder in the same direction that created this problem as a way to try to provide the same luxuries they enjoyed or anticipated, and simply are not there because there isn't enough. I cannot wait for them to be the ones quietly in the corner of the room white knuckles as all their dreams are torn to shreds by the real cost of the life they chose to lead.
Cant come soon enough.
Awkward_Mastodon4332@reddit
Here you go: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/696e0eae719d837d69afc7de/National_security_assessment_-_global_biodiversity_loss__ecosystem_collapse_and_national_security.pdf
But, apparently: When the report at last appeared, thanks to an FoI request lodged by the Green Alliance, The Times reported that it had been significantly “abridged”, I expect by the same goons. Some of its starkest conclusions had been omitted.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/27/uk-government-report-ecosystem-collapse-foi-national-security
Looks like GCHQ would feel at home here in Collapse.
GreenHeretic@reddit
If normalcy erodes away slowly enough, it will never feel like its ending. I believe normalcy vanished when consumerism became normal. Nothing is done unless there's a profit, and saving the world or thinking 2 generations ahead has no profit in it.
AdemHoog@reddit
For anyone under 25 or so - maybe 30 - the normal you know is steady decline. For most over 30 or so, well, they stopped paying attention a while ago
Agreeablepeeable@reddit
43 college educated white male in cap hill Denver here
I frequently have to deal with violent alcoholic, meth addict, severely brain damaged morbidly obese middle aged white men magas threatening violence against me and my friends in the most progressive neighborhood in Denver
I also had a very hungover(maybe still drunk?) Denver police officer threaten shoot me for smoking a joint the other day. Luckily his partner intervened
Nothing is normal and this country is more like Nazi germany everyday including brown shirts threatening people in the streets
Glittering_Film_6833@reddit
On a side note, it's sad that Greer - to whom we owe a big debt, for his crystallisation of the theory of catabolic collapse - has so heartily embraced MAGA and an anti-science contrariianism. We most certainly could use a rational JMG right now.
chickey23@reddit
2042 will be the beginning of the unexplainable. By 2045 we will have something new.
Mountain_Mirror_3642@reddit
Before shit really hits the fan, I think it's highly dependent on your geography. If you're in southeast Asia? Ehhh, this Iran thing isn't looking great, may not be terribly long. If you're in Southern Canada? Meh, you've probably got a couple decades.
Perverse_Shamurai@reddit
I think if I think like there are no more options (for a successful future), I might start to feel hopeless. Currently I don't see it optionless. What I'd argue for preparation would be to work as hard as you can and want for yourself; be open, and curious, and keep learning; go a bit also with the flow; and be ready to join in, and advocate and "mindpollinate" for the best ideas.
PHL2287@reddit
insert boiling frogs pic here
Slamtilt_Windmills@reddit
I try to describe it as rolling at craps table, and if you roll 12 twice you're done. Not likely, but it could happen at any moment, but the fact that you are rolling the dice means its as time goes on it is more likely to have had occurred
After_Resource5224@reddit
Normal went out the window with smartphones.
No_Foundation16@reddit
2016 in the US.
possiblecurb@reddit
Once one of the big names gets hacked it's over. Phones have been reliable, break that mental fog and it'll get wild. I think a lot of people still consider their phone personal, it'd be a hard snap to reality. Humans are adaptable, it's just whether they want to.
JustAtelephonePole@reddit
Ends? She gone!
Nerdyboy78@reddit
There is nothing normal about the world. When was anything ever normal?
JacksGallbladder@reddit
"Normalcy" as in, a unified cultural definition of "normal", ended somewhere around 2017.
Now we lack connected communities in our immediate locale, there is no trustworthy central information source, no unifying pop culture...
There just isnt a notmal that exists.
vagabond_primate@reddit
Since 2020
Doctalivingston@reddit
Normalcy has been achieved today, tomorrow normalcy will be achieved. Until complete and total societal collapse. Whatever triggers that.
Watch Hypernormalization.
MustelidRex@reddit
Normalcy will never end. 100 years from now navigating the hellscape we have turned the world into will be normal, boring, and filled with lots of daily tasks that seem the same as always.