Frankfurt Airport opens Terminal 3 after 11 years of construction with a capacity of 19 million, expandable to 25 million. It’s Europe’s largest privately funded infrastructure project.
Posted by AVstromX@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 151 comments
Source: Frankfurt Airport, Image source
Bi0botaniker@reddit
Also given that ~30% percent are owned by the government and another ~20% are owned by the city it is very hard to argue that Fraport or the terminal is privately funded.
BroSchrednei@reddit
legally it is a private enterprise.
Bi0botaniker@reddit
So is the Deutsche Bahn…
razies@reddit
And DB does not fund it's infrastructure privately. New railway tracks are generally funded by the state.
AbsoLutRubyRed@reddit
Both are not paying a penny for this publicly tradet company
Bi0botaniker@reddit
Which is a good thing, but still not the same as a private enterprise
runninstorm@reddit
Airport will still be a nightmare.
Eldiablo2471@reddit
Remind me! 1 month from now
DullMind2023@reddit
11 years? Did they use the same clowns as the Berlin airport?
kraven420@reddit
Planning even started 25 years ago
AutomaticAccount6832@reddit
It looks like architecture was done in the 70ties.
SWSIMTReverseFinn@reddit
It's actually on time and within budget. So they actually deserve credit for this project.
Treewithatea@reddit
Which is why German media didnt remind me every 10 minutes of its failure unlike the Berlin airport or Stuttgart 21. Its been relatively 'quiet' around the Frankfurt expansion because as you said, it basically went as planned.
Trallalerotralalala@reddit
That too it looks like a giant metal shed
WesternConference461@reddit
German efficiency no?
ViciousNakedMoleRat@reddit
The plans were changed during construction to accommodate a higher than expected volume of passengers and then COVID delayed the project again. It wasn't flawless by any means, but the long construction period wasn't mainly due to blatant incompetence, as was the case in Berlin.
No_Campaign_3843@reddit
They slowed down construction during Corona in favour of cost savings etc. as the passenger rate projection got worse.
Parts have been finished in 2022, but they didn't need them yet.
Shadow_Ass@reddit
They'll also switch all airlines from T2 to T3 this year and then close T2 for renovations and modernisation
Flyingworld123@reddit
Why are they closing and renovating T2? Frankfurt’s T2 is way more modern and less depressing that T1. T1 is the terminal that desperately needs some renovations.
jmlinden7@reddit
T3 was designed as a general use terminal to replace T2. T1 is the lufthansa terminal.
Flyingworld123@reddit
That makes sense but they should’ve like moved some Lufthansa flights to T2 in order to renovate parts of T1 in phases. Frankfurt’s T1 was one of the worst airport terminals I’ve been to over the years.
jmlinden7@reddit
Lufthansa is cheap and doesn't want to pay for renovation costs. Connecting passengers are very price sensitive.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
Lufthansa wanted to, but the airport didn't want. In MUC, Terminal 2 is a joint venture of Lufthansa and the airport
jmlinden7@reddit
The airport is a for-profit entity. The only reason for the airport to refuse is if Lufthansa lowballed them
AutomaticAccount6832@reddit
I don’t know the details. But also Lufthansa is a for-profit entity. So I guess we cannot just blame Lufthansa to not respect the profit targets of Fraport.
MileHigh_FlyGuy@reddit
It's not the airport's decision - it's Lufthansa's.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
no, it's the airport that decided to close T2, not Lufthansa's decision
MileHigh_FlyGuy@reddit
Imagine your apartment manager renovated a unit, and then someone moves into that unit. Does that mean your lease requires a change and you should move? No. You can certainly request one, or you could be happy at where you're at because you're going through a financial situation and you don't want to take on additional financial risk.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
T2 in the current state cannot be used by Lufthansa as it's not designed for connecting flights
and after renovation, it will be used by Lufthansa
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
I think this is the plan. T2 is planned join Lufthansa operations after renovation. Then they got a bit less load on T1 to start renovation there
hartstyler@reddit
T2 is worse
Realistic_Line_7971@reddit
First of all, T2 is smaller than T1. It also has much less terminal positions. And even if it seems as if T1 needs more renovations, that is not the case. Think about water pipes, cables and so on. It's not so much how the decoration looks but what is going on under the hood.
Murican_Hero@reddit
Idk man I flew this year for the first time from T2 and it felt oppresuve and depressing...
clausy@reddit
It also only has 8 real gates I think. The rest are all noddy bus rides onto the tarmac
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
while T2 is great from passenger perspective, it's very inefficient and has lots of unused space. As it should also be used by Lufthansa and it's partners in future, it has to be modified to be able for connecting flights
sparklyjesus@reddit
Remindme! in 17 years.
_TheBigF_@reddit
I did not know that the Remindme Bot accepts dates this far into the future.
1coon@reddit
RemindMe! in a billion years
NoManagement5292@reddit
Remind me in 13 years
SomeRandomSomeWhere@reddit
You might want to show the actual numbers for it to understand.......
RemindMeBot@reddit
I will be messaging you in 17 years on 2043-04-22 12:53:47 UTC to remind you of this link
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) ^(delete this message to hide from others.)
waldo-jeffers-68@reddit
Hmmm I don’t like reason that 17 years from now will be the mid 2040s
that_dutch_dude@reddit
Nah, its only like 2030, i just saw the matrix in the cinema a few years ago...
Careless_Aroma_227@reddit
The one matrix with the sweaty, underground sex rave in the beginning of the movie?
ITakeMassiveDumps@reddit
Bold of you to assume that we exist in 17 years.
SomeRandomSomeWhere@reddit
We will exist in 17 years.
What form the internet will be, or how we survive is the question.
Nunc_Coepi17@reddit
People have been saying this since 17 yr ago lol back in 2009 “bold of you to assume we exist in 17 years” yet we’re still fucking here lol
dmaxel@reddit
Condor is also moving from T1 to T3, but next year
mayhemtime@reddit
Will they also move the rats to the new terminal?
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
aren't those mainly living in T1?
underscoreftw@reddit
And 11 years later when the T2 renovation is completed they'll close T3 for renovations
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
nope, T2 will be an extension of T1. But when it's reopened, they surely have to do something with the old T1
Electronic-BioRobot@reddit
Ah, Crackfurt am Main.
leoll_1234@reddit
It’s pretty cool and seems efficient. I was able to participate in the ORAT test as a passenger and it’s so much better than the old T2
GuhdNahtBahd@reddit
Was it one guy working on it? Frank Furt?
Sivalon@reddit
Dr. Frank N. Furter, actually.
stevecostello@reddit
I see you shiver with anticip....
MetastaticCarcinoma@reddit
... ... ...
SkynetUser1@reddit
SAY IT!!!!
stevecostello@reddit
… ation!
HunMyy@reddit
He made a man with blond hair and a tan faster than this
sourcefourmini@reddit
Now we find out if he removed the cause (old airport) but not the symptom (terrible airport experience)
afito@reddit
For those who care, the local legend around the name is that it was the ford (Furt in German) the Franks used. The Saxons unaware of the ford had to stay on the other side, hence the name of what is now the city part on the other side of the Main, Sachsenhausen, translating to 'where Saxons reside'.
cliff_of_dover_white@reddit
And the better people stayed in Gutleutviertel.
Sustainable_Twat@reddit
If it was, 11 years is impressive all things considered.
karateninjazombie@reddit
How on earth did it take 11 years to build a fancy shed with seats in it for waiting?!!
Bf109Emil@reddit
It was deliberatly delayed die to COVID 19 for approximately 4 years.
tampaempath@reddit
Terminal 3 was built where Rhein Main Air Base was. I have a soft spot for Rhein Main since I was there in the early '90's. It was officially closed at the end of 2005. Pretty much the only parts left of Rhein Main that you can still see today are the memorial park and the IntercityHotel Frankfurt Airport, which used to be the Rhein Main AB hotel.
Bf109Emil@reddit
There is also one small hall on the Airside in the vincinity of the Berlin Airlift Memorial left but it looks like it will be demolished soon.
post-explainer@reddit
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Nervous_Produce1800@reddit
lol I happened to be on this very first flight arrival and just so happened to read this post on Reddit. When we got off the plane I was handed chocolate by a woman who said “Welcome to the Terminal 3” and I just thought huh, thanks I guess… ? makes more sense now haha
Comprehensive_Mix_6@reddit
Best about it: Other countries build an entire mega airport in half the time for half the money. Terminal 3 ladies and gentlemen, the pride of European infrastructure projects.
ttystikk@reddit
Meanwhile in the last decade China built the world's largest high speed rail network.
Color me unimpressed.
Rupperrt@reddit
Yeah, helps if you can have people working 6-7 days a week, sleeping in barracks and only get to visit their hometown during CNY and Golden week. Apart from much more lenient safety standards and extreme spending of local governments to hit their GDP targets. Color me unimpressed.
ttystikk@reddit
Those are American working conditions, you know.
Rupperrt@reddit
No they aren’t. Most people get to see their family every day, not just twice a year.
ttystikk@reddit
Gotta spread that hate.
Can't just acknowledge the achievement.
Rupperrt@reddit
I mean, I live in China, so I sure I don’t hate it. But I am also not a moron and can call out that low and mid skill workers working conditions are pretty horrible.
manavcafer@reddit
What's the situation with Berlin airport?
Aggravating_Loss_765@reddit
Just right before the jet fuel crisis. Perfect timing.
originalthoughts@reddit
The terminal is designed to be used 30-40 years, the fuel crisis will last maybe 1-3 years. I guess you don't think or plan ahead and ate extremely reactionary aren't you?
Jazzlike_Climate4189@reddit
I do eat pretty reactionarily.
ceelodan@reddit
Idk why you being downvoted, I found it hilarious lmao
Jazzlike_Climate4189@reddit
The cool people who appreciated the joke came through. 😃
VanillaTortilla@reddit
Yeah, was gonna say doesn't everyone? Lol
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Aggravating_Loss_765@reddit
With all that co2 hysteria in germany, jet fuel crisis is just the beginning of the downfall in aviation industry.
Snitchdoctor@reddit
I actually partially planned the fire protection system for most of the terminal and pier bridges. Most interesting project I ever participated in.
andres57@reddit
Congrats for it working and not getting another BER lol
Sea-Appeal-9194@reddit
11 Years!? The Turks built Istanbul Airport as a whole in a fraction, so much for German efficiency 🤣
SuperFriendlyAv8or@reddit
The official death toll of workers on the Istanbul site is 55, which itself is crazy, but there are some estimates that put it at over 400... I guess the Germans favour safe working conditions over getting it done as fast as possible
fd6270@reddit
Lol it has nothing to do with Germans favoring safer working conditions.
Here are quite a few more examples:
Hong Kong International Airport (Chek Lap Kok): Often cited as one of the most ambitious engineering projects in history, the entire airport—including the creation of a massive artificial island—was completed in just 7 years (1991–1998). They didn’t just build a terminal; they leveled two mountainous islands, reclaimed land from the sea, and built a world-class hub from scratch in less time than it took Frankfurt to finish a single terminal.
London Heathrow Terminal 2 (The Queen’s Terminal): Built in a highly regulated, democratic Western environment, this terminal was completed in just 4 years (2010–2014). It was constructed in the middle of the world’s busiest dual-runway airport, requiring surgical precision to avoid disrupting millions of passengers—yet it was still finished in nearly a third of the time FRA took.
Beijing Daxing International Airport (PKX), China: Completed in roughly 5 years (2014–2019). This is the world’s largest single-building terminal.
Changi Airport Terminal 4, Singapore: This high-tech facility was completed in only 4 years (2013–2017). Singapore’s safety and building codes are among the strictest in the world. Despite this, they managed to build a fully automated, 16-million-passenger terminal in less than half the time of FRA Terminal 3.
JFK Terminal 1 (The New Terminal One): This $9.5 billion project is significantly larger and more expensive than FRA Terminal 3. Groundbreaking occurred in 2022, and Phase 1 is scheduled to open in 2026. Even with the massive scale of a 23-gate international headhouse, the core construction timeline is set for 4 years.
JFK Terminal 6: A $4.2 billion project that broke ground in early 2023. The first gates are expected to be operational in 2026. This shows that even in a highly litigious and regulated environment like New York City, 3–4 years is the standard for major terminal phases.
JFK Terminal 5 (JetBlue "T5"): The original construction of this terminal remains a gold standard for speed in the modern era. It took just 3 years to complete (December 2005 – October 2008). Builders had to navigate the extreme complexity of preserving the historic Eero Saarinen TWA Flight Center while constructing a brand new 26-gate facility around it—a feat of architectural surgery that makes FRA's "greenfield" site look easy.
JFK Terminal 4 Expansion: This $1.5 billion project broke ground in the fall of 2021 and was substantially complete by late 2023. In just 2 years, they added 10 new gates and 150,000 square feet of space to one of the world's busiest terminals—all while the building remained fully operational and packed with millions of passengers.
Rupperrt@reddit
Working in Hong Kong airport, I wish they’d taken a bit longer. It’s raining through the roof, the toilets in our building are flooded most of the time. It’s surely an impressive projects. But as everything in Hong Kong, it’s done very fast but extremely sloppily.
SuperFriendlyAv8or@reddit
I mean this is a weird hill to die on but I think we're all happy to let you have it at this point
AdamN@reddit
There have been some wins a LaGuardia also (although from a comically low standard).
I remember being in JFK and there were literally hoses from leaks in the ceiling to various garbage cans :-). I’m pleased with the progress and really excited to stay in the hotel one day.
fd6270@reddit
It's super impressive how they turned LGA around!
JFK has come a long way as well, I've stayed at the TWA a few times and it's quite the experience, especially for an aviation nerd like me.
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
You mean the Istanbul Airport that, during its construction, infamously killed 3-4 workers per week, where workers lived in “vermin-infested dormitories”, were frequently not paid on time, and were sometimes left at the construction site on holidays without transportation back to those vermin-infested dormitories?
Not sure that’s something to aspire to.
fd6270@reddit
You're heavily downvoted for some reason but absolutely right. 11 years to build a single airport terminal is crazy work.
It only took 5 years to build the Burj Khalifa...
ZetaM3@reddit
How many slaves does building the Burj?
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
11 years does seem like a lot, but not sure that’s a fair comparison. Not using slave labor and working at an active airport can slow things down quite a bit.
fd6270@reddit
Okay, should I compile a massive list of all of the similarly complex infrastructure projects that didn't use slave labor and yet still managed to be completed in under 11 years?
KirkieSB@reddit
Yes, go ahead.
levanpidaras@reddit
Not a full list but a very comparable example is Sheremetyevo Terminal B. Active airport, capacity of about 20 million, underground train to connect to existing terminals. Built in 2.5 years. Definitely loser labour laws but very far from slave labour.
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
Terminal B replaced the existing Terminal B (it was demolished) so I think it’s fair to assume that some of the infrastructure around a new terminal didn’t have to be built. In addition, the new Terminal B also incorporates Terminal C with its existing capacity of 6 million part of the new terminal’s 20 million capacity.
The old Terminal B was also opened in 2007 and closed for demolition in 2017. Hardly a model of efficient use of resources. Though I suppose since every major public infrastructure project in Russia is an opportunity for grift and corruption on an enormous scale efficiency isn’t really a factor.
TurnoverMysterious64@reddit
Please do, I expect a full report published in a respectable peer-reviewed journal within the hour.
Sea-Appeal-9194@reddit
That would be the Germans downvoting my friend, reality sucks 😂🤷🏼♂️ glad you agree!! Damn right
fd6270@reddit
Of course! Germans love their inefficient beurocracy and they especially love getting offended at people criticizing their inefficient beurocracy.
Wooden_Ship_5560@reddit
I guess it's rather due to the Terminal being basically build due to schedule.
fd6270@reddit
Yeah it's really easy to keep a project 'on schedule' when you keep revising the schedule to push the date of completion out.
kobrons@reddit
Its not just a terminal though.
Its 3 piers, one terminal around 10km of newly built road and a sky train. All of that without having access to slave labor and not on a empty piece of land but on an active airport and motorway is actually pretty decent.
fd6270@reddit
Make whatever excuses you want, I can find countless infrastructure projects that were more complex than this and still completed faster.
This is just another classic example of German 'efficiency'
Wooden_Ship_5560@reddit
The reason for the downloads is (imho) rather, that the terminal is completed due to (the revised) plan (due to the Corona-pandemic) and within budget. - Could it have been build faster? Yes. - Was it intended to be completed faster? Not really/only before the pandemic.
HuntKey2603@reddit
yeah, shit gets build quick if you use slave workforce
silentdragon95@reddit
Except they intentionally delayed the project for several years when COVID hit, because nobody needed a giant new terminal to open in the middle of the pandemic.
Arctic_Chilean@reddit
wait until you hear about Berlin Brandenburg...
Treinrukker@reddit
China build 30.000km of high speed rail in that time frame.
Rupperrt@reddit
Yeah, and workers live in barracks for most of the year, only go home for CNY, while local governments are drowning in debt to pay for those projects to reach their growth targets. Not to even mention fewer safety regulations.
DefendUkraine14@reddit
Ok?
Treewithatea@reddit
Are you gonna write that every time a big project happens outside China?
kevinblau@reddit
If Fraport was a horse it would be put put of its misery, it is that bad.
Rupperrt@reddit
Why? They were profitable for every of the last 10 years, apart from 2020 and have operations or have parts of them in all continents apart from Australia and Africa.
BankHottas@reddit
Was this designed by MC Escher? I’m struggling so much to make spatial sense of this image
LaconicSuffering@reddit
The inside is worse.
PocketSizedRS@reddit
This was just a terrible photograph to use lol. It shows so much and so little at the same time
VanillaTortilla@reddit
Top road continues, but goes behind the black building on the left. Bottom road continues like it seems, but the way the edge of the fence lines up makes it seem like it's being mirrored.
wurstbowle@reddit
Yeah and then the facade is weirdly angled, creating reflections that make perception even harder.
But in the end the infrastructure in the front is the people mover track that ends in the black building in the lower left corner. While the actual terminal building is the large structure with the roadway in front.
VanillaTortilla@reddit
It all kind of makes it seem like it's a mockup rather than a real thing.
But I think it's just how the photo came out/was edited.
WardenJack@reddit
Perfect timing with the jet fuel and all.
Timbaktu_Tales@reddit
Good…maybe we don’t need to play snake and ladders to get to the check-in counter
ritesh808@reddit
11 years lol. Bet this new one will also fall apart during Christmas/NY.
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Good, what a shit airport otherwise.
facw00@reddit
Obviously there are considerable differences, but it makes me think of I.M. Pei's now demolished Sundrome at JFK:
AVstromX@reddit (OP)
Well that does look similar, albeit with a different colour scheme. The inspiration for the main Terminal building was apparently the new national gallery in Berlin by modernist architect Mies van der Rohe (compare the cross shaped pillars, the roof, the elevated ground, etc.).
IntrepidWolverine517@reddit
It's a joke to say it's privately funded when a majority of Fraport Is owned by the state and the city.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
but it's a public company listed at the stock exchange, so politics are not as powerful in doing nonsense like e.g. in Berlin
IntrepidWolverine517@reddit
They do their own nonsense, remember Manila.
flying_ina_metaltube@reddit
Flying into FRA and through this airport next week, excited.
tangowhiskeyyy@reddit
Rumor is you'll get a jetway and not a bus, JK no chance at that dump of an airport
Shockwave2309@reddit
Fuck. This airport is a shitshow already... delays, cancellations, mice in the lounges,...
This airport should be nuked, not expanded
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577564842@reddit
Talk about timimng.
RiP CityLine
CashKeyboard@reddit
Would've either way never seen that terminal.
angelic_sun@reddit
german timing with the jet fuel running low, it does look neat tho
nbt3011@reddit
Should be among the ugliest airport terminals. Looks hideous.
radedon@reddit
The inside is actually nice, but yeah from the outside its pretty ugly.
zyncl19@reddit
19-25 million what?
ABoutDeSouffle@reddit
Planes per day, of course.
FastFingersDude@reddit
I appreciate the question.
No_Campaign_3843@reddit
Passengers per annum?
Designer-Salary-7773@reddit
Just in time for air travel to tank completely