EU chief groups Turkey with Russia and China as "threats to be countered," sparking diplomatic firestorm. Thoughts?
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 228 comments
kadaka80@reddit
Turkey is schizophrenic. From one hand they want to be more European and join the union and on another they constantly make threats against my country and Cyprus for wanting to exercise internationally recognised rights (What rights could Turkey ever claom they have south of Crete), and finally the illegal occupation and settling of Cyprus (The hypocrisy os enormous when Turkey does the exact same thing they accuse, rightly so, the Israelis
All of these issues could be resolved if Turkey ever agree rto abandon their regional Imperialistic worldview and sit down with their neighbours in good faith
blumonste@reddit
Bring your nationalist fervor down a notch. Insisting on arming every single island by a stone throw away from Turkish coasts is not helpful. Aegean can not be a Greek lake. Islands can't have the same territorial waters as the mainland in this geography.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
"arming every single island by a stone throw away"
lol.
no chance Greece ever stops "militarization"
(I'm from one of those islands, no local opposes it).
it (already) is.
Greece owns 99% of the islands.
blumonste@reddit
There lies the problem. Greek 'lake' with eastern shores belonging to Turkey.
Adistaktos34@reddit
The Aegean army may exist but Greece is forbidden to have an army there? wow! The Aegean IS a Greek lake for many years now, dude....all the islands are inhabited by Greeks except 2. International maritime law clearly states that the islands have their own exclusive economic zone. It is not our fault that Turkey has learned to live without laws according to its own interests.
DimGenn2@reddit
Why not?
Flashy_Race_7812@reddit
Simple pal, if you play with fire you eventually get burned.
If there would ever be a war you don’t want Türkiye & Russia to be allied and attacking you.
DimGenn2@reddit
Who would we ever go to war with other than turkey? No one else threatens us.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Why is NC such an issue for greeks when it was greece that invited the conflict in the first place?
We werent the ones that overthrew Cyprus in the 60s-70s
Battlefleet_Sol@reddit
are u really greek from athens. Or hasbara worker from tel aviv?
Flashy_Race_7812@reddit
Probably some Israeli having fun, my man trying to destroy Greece. As if they would have a chance.
Lydeeh@reddit
Damn. All was to be done was for Israel to start throwing threats towards Turkey and EU is pre-emptively throwing it under the bus.
Turkey best friends when it interests them and enemy when it doesnt. This is pure utter bullshit.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit
Europe had to apply US' Korea model on Turkey.
Give people free circulation in some countries, provide partnership in military industry, sell your good with x3-5 prices and take their qualified personel. While keeping Turkey in their door as a guard, making clear that they are Asian.
Instead, they preferred to accept Turkey's EU candidacy which never will be accepted. They supported Erdoğan for a long time. They kept being racist on Turks and never declared open support in Turkey in any field. Turkey modified its penal code for participation in EU. Now we live in a country that is corrupted, became a refugee stock for Europe and AKP seized our bureacracy until it's core.
Now, even the Europe fanboy teenagers slightly turning away from Pro-Europeanism. Nobody trusts in EU enaymoer. Before Erdoğan supporters used to call dissidents "Western agents" now both dissidents and Erdoğan supporters accuse each other to be Western agents.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
never.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit
This is rational from a Greek perspective, almost 90% of them are already Anti-Turkish.
But the rational thing to do for most Europe was the Korea treatment as I stated, you plunder by giving some advantages.
QuantumAlloy05BC@reddit
They are Turkophobes, which goes far beyond being Anti-Turkish. Just give this mouth breathing bunch what they wanna hear and they will be fine. They sat on the same lap as they have always done and will.
Adistaktos34@reddit
Learn some things. Turkey threatens Israel long before 2023. Turkey basically thinks it is a superpower and has invaded Syria, Iraq and Cyprus. It directly threatens Greece of course only in words since in practice it cannot and cooperates with Iran-Russia-China. It thinks it can stand on two boats but it destroys its citizens and its economy.
Atilim87@reddit
You may have notice that Syria and Iraq was actively destabilised by other countries not named Turkey and Turkey had to do something to at least control its shared border.
Disagree with the tactic but the overall blame should be put on the counties that pushed for the Iraq was.
Cyprus could have been resolved a long time ago.
Lydeeh@reddit
I am not defending Turkey. These things you mention have not happened recently. They have happened since the 70s and ongoing. Europe could have considered Turkey an enemy long ago but now suddenly this is being brought up in the narrative. Something's fishy.
Adistaktos34@reddit
Everything works cumulatively and contributes to a result. When Turkey is laundering Iran's money with gold through Halkbank, when it has close cooperation with Russia, when it has an expansionist policy against Europe, it cannot be done otherwise. The guys have a dictatorship, there is no way Europe will EVER accept them. All the Europeans want is to sell cars and high technology to the 80 million citizens of Turkey and nothing else. It is a Muslim country with terrible corruption and a dictatorship that has nothing to do with the conditions that Europe sets for membership.
Critical-Ad-8507@reddit
US:First time?
alkorisno@reddit
Epstain class strikes again
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Just more nonsense from the Brussels sprout.
freddo_expresso@reddit
You don't trust your own government yet you expect us to do so?
Elmalukat@reddit
Your government is the same
Athalos124@reddit
No it's not lol,they are corrupt as fuck but they are not Erdogan
Elmalukat@reddit
Erdogan is authoritarian but way more competent
freddo_expresso@reddit
Hahahahhaha 😂
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Sure, I don't trust my own government, but I know for a fact that Turkey isn't capable of that. Being lumped in with Russia and China is a huge stretch, isn't it?
freddo_expresso@reddit
Turkey is by no means in the same league as Russia or China, but it is a hostile entity without a doubt.
Cyprus is under Turkish occupation as we speak, that is EU territory.
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Honestly, this sounds like nonsense to me. You know there was a referendum held there, and it was the Greek side that voted 'No' to reunification. Turkey didn't try to block the process at all. It's really weird to reject reunification and then turn around and call Turkey an 'occupier.' It just doesn't add up, man.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Voting yes would de jure recognise and legitimise both the second invasion of Cyprus ( Attila 2) and the ethnic cleansing / population settling Turkey has been doing in Cyprus for the last 50 years.
It is no nonsense at all.
kus-avci@reddit
you guys tried to kill the turks on the iland
hellllllooooooooooooooooooooooo why are you guys not mentioning this
you tried to genocide the turks on the iland thats why turkey is there
you tried to kill people because they where turks and you wanted a greek iland heloooooooooooooooooooo
greeks always plays the victim
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Sure. Give me the number of dead Turks at the hands of the EOKA in the years 1955-1974.
Come on , don't be shy.
Abigail_Blyg@reddit
Are y’all still denying this? It’s been years, but apparently propaganda works fast 💀
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
You mistake my question for something else.I don't deny anything.
I'm asking you, plain and simple:
How many Turks were killed by EOKA? How many Turks were killed by TMT? How many Greeks were killed by TMT? How many Greeks were killed by EOKA?
In 20 years , you will get a number amounting some 2-3 thousand. Typical ,intercommunal violence.
And here comes the jackpot question: how many Greeks did Attila 1& 2 kill in 1,5 months?
The answer is " more numbers than all the other previous questions COMBINED ". More dead by Turkey in a month than 20 years of intercommunal violence.
I said it in a previous comment and I'll say it again here ; there is a reason everybody in the world turned their back on you after Attila 2 . You fucked up the "peaceful operation".
kus-avci@reddit
nobody gives a fuck about your butthurt false statements
Turkey is and will always be better and stronger then greece. History have shown that greece has started alot of wars with turkey they only lost most of them yeah ofcourse you guys have more numbers dead thats how war works if you lose you lose alot of people. that does not change the fact that on cyprus greece was the agressor and they paid the price for it using those numbers in your propaganda tells alot.
It also tells alot that you guys keep denying that you guys tried to start a genocide on the turks. you guys tried to kll the turks on the iland i dont give a dam about the world because we see how the world acts on russia and usa/israil it does not make it right.
Europe always had a thing against turkey and alway will because of history but we dont see the same sentiment against germany for example
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Nobody gives a fuck and yet you type a whole comment xD
Also, false statements ?Where am I wrong exactly?
bill_cipher1996@reddit
I mean what is the alternative ? That was a solution to let the past be past... I dont think that there will be ever a better deal. Just like the will never be a 2 state solution in the westbank, that train left the station a long time ago.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Sure buddy.
Let me ravish your mother , kill your father, take your house.
Let the past be the past buddy :(
There is a reason everybody hates Israelis . There is a reason Turkey is on their own , concerning Cyprus. There is a reason settling following an ethnic cleansing(what Turkey has been doing ON PURPOSE) is considered a crime against humanity.
The Republic of Cyprus is taking a long task along with the European Court and International Court to compensate every Turkocypriot displaced in 1950s -1974. That's the alternative. Through justice, through courts not through illegal resettling , TRNC and " this is your last Easter in Cyprus " as one of their politicians said a week ago.
If they want to be lumped together with the Israelis and like settlers , the so be it. We will make sure the TRNC and Turkey itself is vetoed into oblivion for the next century.
bongiovist@reddit
Why nobody asking or reading what happened there first? I will answer with you own sentences Sure body, Let “EOKA” ravish my mother, kill my father and take my house. Let the past is past ! There is a reason Turks helping Muslim Cypriots ( genetically i think all these 3 countries are mixed, you have Karaman Orthodox Turks Greekified, We has Cretan Muslim Greeks and they are Turkified) I was a big supporter of the island to be reunited but it is still in mind how your side strongly opposed the United Nations Kofi Annan Plan. Now coming here and spreading Western style Double Standard bullshit towards us. Western world is a selfish world with fake morals I can criticise and be honest and we can dig deep until Sumerians, Hattis, Hittites, Alexander the Great, Conquerer Sultan Mehmet, Thales, Anaximandros and many more. You do not need any other fake civilised country to attack us with words. Greek civilisation by itself a Giant in history and have my huge respect. Just be honest and open to talk everything and try to see causes and effects from both sides.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Nobody will ever , EVER , agree for the settlers to stay. Except the TRNC , of which they are voters and Turkey ,since Turkey placed them there.
Or TMT , or Contreguerrila or Gray Wolves. You asked for honesty after all.
bongiovist@reddit
I have finished my readings about our late political century lets say 3 months ago. I know what happened in my country as well as in your country.
https://youtu.be/3tcbrG8eG88?si=adHruY_bdGJdrPR_ You can read his book to learn more about what has happened and how by whom to your people as well. Peace my friend, no sane Turk is thinking to get one more inch of your soil, we just want to protect ourselves from attacks and killings.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Thank God , finally a man who actually studied about the cold war "Gladio" that striped our nations of their independency in the 50s, all in the name of the "Red Scare".
A saying as old as humanity.
Though we both know it is used as an excuse to do shit. I mean , look at Israel or even Cyprus.
I don't see that coming with Turkey anytime soon. I'm saying this as I observe the situation since the 1920s.
bongiovist@reddit
As long as people like us know the hidden games played each sides will speak up against the powers of the fear, humanity will be awake and see the real threat. I have met many Greek and have friends and the subjects was not baklava and yogurt. We are living in the of smart everythings but dumb humans to control easily so they believe everything from the media without questioning.
bill_cipher1996@reddit
We did exectly that. We unalived a lot of french in the border region especially around Straßburg and we lost that region. But today France and Germany are friends. Because we cant change what happend in the past, but we can change the future!
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
No.
What you are describing is Bulgaria and Greece. Because , as of now , there is not a single thing that makes today Bulgaria the same Bulgaria that entered Greece in 1941 and killed 100.000 civilians while trying to ethnically cleanse the region. The Bulgaria of today is not the Bulgaria of 1910s , when they ethnically cleansed regions that today belong to Bulgaria. Same goes for Greece of course.
Turkey on the other hand , has a casus belli against my state, is TO THIS DAY settling and changing demographics in Imvros, Tenedos and Cyprus, is interventions in Syria, Iraq, Armenia( by proxy) and many more.
Bulgaria, Greece can say let bygones be bygones , as BOTH did great steps.
Turkey does nothing as of the last 100 years. Unlike Germany, they were never held accountable for the MILLIONS they killed through the Labour Battalions and death marches. It is still a continuation of the late Ottoman empire, an imperialist, nationalist state that behaves like a bully. And its citizens vote and support his shit.
So no. Never forget, never forgive till they change that.
cheakpeasdownhill@reddit
> "The final version of the plan isn't a package on which the parties ever agreed. It is a mass of coercions written by aides to the UN secretary-general saying, 'this meets you halfway' and then communicated to the parties. Secondly, there's no precedent in international law of bringing such a blueprint to a referendum. A referendum should be based on a definite text prepared by an authority, or it should be a text on which the parties are agreed so that the people know that the agreement will be accepted if they vote in its favor. None of these conditions now exists. The UN General Secretariat, whose authority is controversial, exercised its 'goodwill mission' [good offices mission] granted by the Security Council and made the parties accept it through threats and deception. The text is devoid of compromise. Thirdly, setting aside judicial disagreements on various issues, this 'map of zones' is a map being presented to those who'll live there without any discussion."
Mümtaz Soysal in "Mistakes and Deception", Cumhuriyet, 2 April 2004.
freddo_expresso@reddit
The referendum that we declined legalized the illegal settlers, that form the majority of the population of the occupied territories, and dismissed the return of property to the refugees that were forced to abandon their homes due to the invasion.
No.
MKHK32@reddit
Expecting Turkish settlers (however we define them) to return is as likely as insisting Israeli settlers to return. In Palestine the EU pushes for a 2SS if consistent they should do the same in Cyprus. That said I support a 1SS in both as being the just and rational solution
freek_@reddit
You talking on this issue while having those two flags in your name is funny
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
We are talking about people who arrived on the island 50 years ago, got married there, had children, and even have grandchildren born there. Dreaming of labeling and deporting the third generation as illegal settlers is a direct violation of the human rights you claim to uphold. This is their home now you cannot build peace by ignoring their existence
freddo_expresso@reddit
International Law officially recognizes the installation of settlers as an act of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
You commit this crime for 50+ years, this is actually against you.
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Whether international law likes it or not, the referendum is a fact. The Turkish side voted Yes, while the Greek side rejected the solution by voting No. You were rewarded with EU membership anyway, so it's not the time to complain. Until there is another referendum, it will remain the TRNC forever. Whether you like it or not, recognize it or not... at the end of the day, power dictates the reality on the ground
8NkB8@reddit
Don't bother. Turkey is alone on the Cyprus issue and still doesn't get it.
Nomansband@reddit
Pushing Israeli propaganda under the guise of being Greek is just dumb mate. It shows.
0a_boy0@reddit
You cannot call it occupation. If it was occupation that area would be the 82nd city of Turkey. But it is a state right? Which is only recognized by turkey.
freddo_expresso@reddit
No, it's a self-declared pseudostate that nobody recognizes, it's internationally recognized as territory of Cyprus under illegal Turkish military occupation.
AgreeableFeedback868@reddit
Turkish side has voted in 2004 for reunification, with the support if Turkey. Greek side refused. What illegal occupation you are talking about?
0a_boy0@reddit
Definitely not illegal. Turkey had the right to send their soldiers to the island as the guarantor state. There is nothing illegal.
cheakpeasdownhill@reddit
> "Even if there was not a single Muslim Turk there (in Cyprus) Turkey had to maintain a Cyprus issue. No country can remain indifferent to such an island that is in the heart of its vital space" \~ Ahmet Cavusoglu - The Strategic Depth
There is also a UN resolution calling for the withdrawal of all foreign troops that are not agreed in the Guarantee treaty
What happened in Cyprus has nothing to do with legality.
freddo_expresso@reddit
Hahhahahah, the OCCUPATION was legal? That's why not a single country in the planet agrees with you 🤣
0a_boy0@reddit
If you search you will understand that turkey had the right to do that. So it is legal.
And as I have said, not occupation. İt is a state that we recognize.
freddo_expresso@reddit
I'm talking about the occupation, not the intervention. These are two different things.
Do you justify the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of Cyprus?
Abigail_Blyg@reddit
I actually do think that the occupation is illegal, but the initial reaction to the Greek activities on the island was completely legal, and the occupation was only possible because of that. Since then, there have been talks of reuniting the island, but both sides have had some issues with that, like the Annan Plan.
I feel like, as a Greek, you are acting completely emotional and biased about this situation. There is no way that Turkey is a threat comparable to Russia and China.
freddo_expresso@reddit
So you are trying to play the "necessary evil" card. Let me be clear, ethnic cleansing is a crime that is never acceptable. The expulsion of the native population by the hundreds of thousands, and installment of illegal foreign settlers in the native properties, is the most disgusting of all crimes. Only Israel can be compared with what you did to Cyprus.
So, spare me your crocodile tears.
Abigail_Blyg@reddit
Are you guys having collective ignorance? That’s literally what you did in Cyprus. It’s outright hypocritical.
I’d also like more details on how Turkey and Israel can be comparable to eachother in Cyprus/Palestine.
Also, you should’ve just accepted the Annan Plan, skill issue.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Your allies seem to have no interest in solving this issue in your favour.
Have you ever wondered why north and west europeans generally don't give a fuck about you?
ImmediateInitiative4@reddit
Was it already an EU territory when it was divided to begin with? Asking for a friend. You guys literally blackmailed other countries so that a country with a land dispute and division can enter EU
freddo_expresso@reddit
How does that change anything?
ImmediateInitiative4@reddit
The fact that Greece blackmailed other EU members to get a divided country into the union so that now you can say "turkey invaded an eu country grrrrr"? ofc it changes nothing
freddo_expresso@reddit
But there is nothing debatable, Cyprus is one state and a part of the state is illegally occupied by a foreign military. The International Community agrees in its entirety, so there is no debate.
ImmediateInitiative4@reddit
I'm not arguing that. Your wording was like Turkey invaded an EU country, it wasnt so, it became one later despite the laws. Turkish intervention on the island was justified, staying there however is debatable and I'm not here to argue that.
freddo_expresso@reddit
The occupation is not debatable, of course, it's a crime and violation of International Law. I know this is impossible for you to say out loud, so I'm not expecting you to do so.
Baturing@reddit
What was eoka doing there bud? Throwing flowers? You are supporting a genocidal group to slaughter Turkish civilians. We tried the diplomatic way, you didn't budge. So you get the stick. Yet you still haven't learned. You keep pushing, but when you get reprimanded you cry bloody murder.
maniiiicc@reddit
I mean, like Russia your country is basically a dictatorship and like Russia your country likes to invade others. Why do you think that Turkey is different
Open-Investigator-52@reddit
Sooo until recently was France in the same boat? You know, with all the shit they did in Africa?
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Who said we would leave the EOKA killers unpunished? - Yok öyle hem ayranım dökülmesin hem popom sklmesin.
maniiiicc@reddit
I don't speak your language bro
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
maniiiicc@reddit
You also can't ethnically cleanse people
kus-avci@reddit
did you tell greeks that when they tried to ethnically cleanse the iland of its original turkish population or does greeks have dementia when its about this topic.
never you guys discuss why turkish army is there only that its wrong
you guys should first accept your genocidal hisory on the iland then we can talk about occupation
maniiiicc@reddit
Genocidal history is probably part of every civilization, the problem is that you (I presume you are Turkish) are also committing it now
kus-avci@reddit
When its greece its part of every civilization when its turkey we outrage i got it.
this is the thing you guys dont get. Do you think that we dont see you guys acting all hostile when its Turkey and complety different when its another country.
Everybody knows the balkans and greece hate Turkey because their country got dominated and occupied for decades thats why nothinh good comes out of there mouths when its modern turkey.
so no its not part it was a act of terrorism from the greece turks just stopped them thats it thats the story
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Cool story, bro.
maniiiicc@reddit
I don't believe war crimes are cool. Maybe that's the reason some of us put your country on the same as Russia and China
kus-avci@reddit
nobody gives a fuck about what burtthurt balkans think about us
you guys would drown us in a glass of water if you had the chance.
your hate defines your comments.
maniiiicc@reddit
I am not Balkan bro
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
0a_boy0@reddit
There is no invasion. Thats greeks’ imagination.
QuantumAlloy05BC@reddit
Greek always crown out. Like the pimple that you always wanted. Hellenic ways the idiots of 19th century thought everyone so.
Critical-Ad-8507@reddit
I mean,who DOES trust his own government nowadays?
Personal-Try328@reddit
Yall are a dictatorship bordering and claiming the territory of an eu member. Ofc you are a threat lmao
freek_@reddit
This is the first news from Brussels I 100% agree with..
ElLoboTurco@reddit
"let me lay ground for the next wars real quick"
Personal-Try328@reddit
Turk in germany lmao. Go back home bub
herhangibirperson@reddit
I prefer this over fake reassurances of support (only to be abandoned like the Su-24 case)
Personal-Try328@reddit
PKK is a just resistance organization fighting against a genocidal state.
ohgoditsdoddy@reddit
Some of you guys are oblivious to your biases here. I’m talking about both sides of the argument.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
What do you mean "both sides"? What argument was there to be made that justifies grouping us together with a communist dictatorship and a nuke-holding invader?
Accomplished-Bass690@reddit
You are currently occupying the Northern part of an EU country. Turkey has yet to acknowledge the genocide of its Armenian, Greek and Assyrian population. Turkey has often leveraged their strategic position to discourage other countries from acknowledging the Genocide and their education system has brainwashed the population into believing that the genocide never took place.
So while the communist dictator and the nuke-holding invader might be worse. Turkey is by no means a country that the EU should align with.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
And here comes the " both sides are bad" enlightened centrist...
ohgoditsdoddy@reddit
Nope.
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
The country that threatens two EU nations, occupies one, jailed journalists and blackmailed the EU during the migrant crisis is a threat?
Propaganda straight from Tel Aviv!! /s
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
like 90% of people disagreeing w/ vDL r actually from Turkey.
Turkey's reputation in Europe is (already) terrible, especially likes of Germany, France, Belgium, Austria.
Temporary-Check-1507@reddit
Turks are hosting the 2nd most military bases and try to influence the balkans , Turkey blackmails eu , Still occupy an Eu member , uses its influence to deter assimilation to european standards, is the biggest export of islam through campaigns so its influence can spread , employ spies on Eu soil and many many more (erdogan has supported Orban among other candidates) I SLEEP
Eu calls Erdogan out on this practices by grouping them with the rest semi hostile or hostile nations REAL SHIT
YamReasonable6974@reddit
Me when i am Greek
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
Yeah, keep downvoting, while giving zero counterarguments. Proves my point that you Turks never change.
YamReasonable6974@reddit
Yeah we should all die probably am I right?
No2Hypocrites@reddit
Lol
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
"guys I had a million internet points I swear I am under attack"
Just admit that u had a shit take bruh its petty
freddo_expresso@reddit
Turkey is a natural enemy of the EU, directly threatens Greece with war, and occupies half of Cyprus, an EU member state.
And the sky is blue, what else is new.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Yeah like Cyprus was a member before the Turkish came to intervene. Like Greece had no plans to occupy Cyprus but Türkiye was quicker. Or like Greece that has like Israel an expansionist Policy and got more land since 1821 from Ottomans and Bulgaria and now wants to expand at sea.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Just look at the map of Greece since 1821 both land and sea borders and dare to post this again. The last attempt to enlarge Greek border was enosis of Cyprus in the sixties and seventies and the last attempt at sea was in the nineties when they wanted 12 miles instead of 3 miles. Lying or bending the truth won't help
Substratas@reddit (OP)
What is this false dilemma? Why 1821? 😂
Does history start in 1821 or is that the year most convenient for your narrative? 💀
Wait, so they were the ones who expanded there from Central Asia??
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
The founding of modern day Greece starts in 1821. Before that there was no country called Greece. Saying that Turks came from central Asia and occupied is a simplistic way to look at history. Modern day Turks are not from central Asia alone. They are a mixture of all the people and cultures that lived before them in Türkiye. Er have Hitit blood Turkish blood laz blood Armenian blood Greek blood Albanian blood etc etc etc. we are all the people that lived there. So saying we occupied is a very simplistic way to look at this truth
Puzzled_Muzzled@reddit
Eastern Roman empire laughs in Greek
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Eastern Roman empire was also an occupation force. There were other people's living in Anatolia before Romans and Greeks. So how far do you want to go?
I can argue and my DNA backs this up that I carry more of this people of Anatolia in my DNA than any Greek does. So because my culture and language became Muslim and Turkish does not mean I am not from Anatolia.
Puzzled_Muzzled@reddit
Eastern Roman empire and Greeks were an occupation force from 333 BC up until around 1200 AD in Anatolia. Yes. 1500 years of occupation. Half of the written history and 3/4 of documented history. Finally the people got liberated and freed! Finally they could speak their native Turkish language freely and follow their native deities and multigods and of course the native Arabic culture, since there are also so many deserts in Anatolia . What's wrong with you people? Most people can't name their granparent's grandparent. So please chill.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Just ignore everything before. Göbekli tepe is 12000 years old and Anatolian. But they probably spoke also Greek didn't they. Languages and culture and religion changes overtime but my DNA says I am longer there and from there and your Greek dna says you are slavic
Adistaktos34@reddit
I don't have even 1% Slavic blood in me. I am from Mani-Kalamata, the region that started the revolution of 1821. A small mixture with Slavs happened only in Thrace (the Muslim Pomaks are Slavs). And I am certainly not an orientalist in any way. It is no coincidence that you are 86 million and we are 10, we did not accept any non-Greek simply because they spoke Greek.
Puzzled_Muzzled@reddit
The Hittites (c. 1600–1200 BC) and Mycenaean Greeks were distinct, contemporary Bronze Age civilizations with documented interactions, primarily through trade and diplomacy. Hittite texts refer to the Mycenaeans as the Ahhiyawa (likely Achaeans), acknowledging them as a significant naval power in the Aegean Diplomacy and Conflict: Hittite archives, including the Tawagalawa letter, mention interactions with "Ahhiyawa" royalty, indicating diplomatic, sometimes strained, relationships. The Milawata letter mentions the city of Millawanda (Miletus), a Mycenaean-influenced site. Geographical Overlap: The Hittites recognized Ahhiyawan influence in Western Anatolia, specifically around the coast and areas related to modern-day Ionia. Trade and Influence: Archaeological evidence confirms trade between the Hittite empire and Mycenaean Greece. Some scholars suggest cultural and myth-related exchange, potentially influencing later Greek mythological narratives. Conflict Over Vassals: Hittite records show disputes over control of Western Anatolian cities, often mentioning agents like Piyamaradu, who caused friction between the Hittite king and the Ahhiyawan king. Indo-European Roots: While distinct cultures, both the Hittites (Anatolian branch) and the Greeks (Hellenic branch) belonged to the Indo-European language family.
Adistaktos34@reddit
You and your nomadic fellow citizens are probably living on ancient Greek ruins. Greece is already at 6 nautical miles, I don't know about the 3 you see. We will soon reach 12 miles and you will do nothing, I assure you. Turkey wants to revive its empire and wants half of the Aegean Sea which is inhabited by Greeks. You have signed after your defeat that you will be limited to 3 nautical miles, I don't know why you are acting as if the agreement does not exist.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
I am more Anatolian than you are. You are slavic and not Greek at all unless your ancestor came from Istanbul or other Turkish land so calling me nomadic is laughable.
You will soon see nothing 12 miles is act of war just try and we will come one night to party in Athens.
freddo_expresso@reddit
Turkey is illegally occupying half of Cyprus, full stop. There are no excuses for this crime.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
It is debatable wat Türkiye did in 1974 of illegal or not. It is not debatable that long after Greek part of Cyprus became EU member. Do saying that Türkiye occupied an EU member is not an honest and fully true story. It is like making Ukraine an EU member now and saying Russia occupied eu territory.
freddo_expresso@reddit
There is nothing debatable, the occupied territories are under international embargo and is an unrecognized entity by everyone but the occupier. In fact, this may be the most crystal-clear illegal act in international law.
Turkey is occupying the territory of an EU member state, the fact that it has been occupied prior to its accession changes quite literally nothing.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Türkiye Greve and UK had guarantees by the agreement between those 3 in the sixties. From that perspective it is debatable. Greece wanted to do the same thing but Türkiye was 2 days faster. Are you now saying that Greece wanted to illegally occupy the island and force enosis?
freddo_expresso@reddit
Turkey is illegally occupying territories of Cyprus, in violation of international law and condemned by the international community in its entirety.
This is how things are, no excuses.
TerranCitizen45@reddit
International law doesn't mean anything. You violated an international agreement, got sued in international court, lost and nothing happened. The "collective West" simply prefers Greece over Turkey and that's it. It's always been like that.
freddo_expresso@reddit
"International Law doesn't mean anything"
I'm not reading further than that, that is WILD.
TerranCitizen45@reddit
Yes, it is WILD, here read.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2011/12/397222
The UN court found Greece guilty of breaching the 1995 Interim Agreement (the one where we agreed to use FYROM to enter international organizations).
The Court thus concluded that the Respondent had failed to comply with its obligation under Article 11, paragraph 1, of the Interim Accord by objecting to the Applicant’s admission to NATO at the Bucharest Summit. It also rejected the Respondent’s alternative arguments that its objection had been made in response to the Applicant’s breaches of the Interim Accord.
And then they said, yeah, Greece is guilty, but tough luck, we are not going to punish them for that. Some international law that is!
As to possible remedies for the violation by the Respondent of its obligation under Article 11, paragraph 1, of the Interim Accord, the Court found that a declaration that the Respondent had violated its obligation not to object to the Applicant’s admission to or membership in NATO was warranted and that such finding constituted appropriate satisfaction. The Court did not consider it necessary, however, to order the Respondent, as the Applicant requested, to refrain from any future conduct that violated its obligation under Article 11, paragraph 1, of the Interim Accord.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
And if you were 2 days faster then the same so called international law would say nothing like they do nothing against Israel
freddo_expresso@reddit
"We committed ethnic cleansing and the International community is condemning us, we are the victims of discrimination!"
kus-avci@reddit
you ar a turk hater
turks have done you wrong i am sorry you are like this
i know it hurts starting al wars with turkey and losing them all i know it hurts
TerranCitizen45@reddit
And Greece tried to deny rights to the Turks already there on Cyprus. You conveniently ignored the junta before that.
freddo_expresso@reddit
So, exactly what you did to the Greeks of Constantinople, Imbros, and Tenedos that were protected recognized minorities that Turkey deliberately exterminated? Hmm, shall you ignore that as well?
TerranCitizen45@reddit
And Greece has "culturally genocided" Slavs since the era of Metaxas. Did the world do something about that? No?
That's geo-politics for you. the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. It's just that the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to Greek-Turkie relations.
Here is the Wikipedia article about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
After the Greek Civil War, Greek authorities had conducted a cultural genocide upon Slavic Macedonians in Northern Greece through prohibition of communication in Slavic languages, renaming of cities, towns and villages (Lerin/Лерин to Florina etc.), deportation of Slavic Macedonians, particularly women and children, as well as many other actions intended to marginalize and oppress the Slavic Macedonians residing in Northern Greece. While some of these actions had been motivated by political ideology, as many of the Slavic Macedonians had sided with the defeated communists, the majority of actions were committed to wipe out any traces of Slavic Macedonians or their culture in Northern Greece.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
The Turks did not intervene once. The Turks are intervening every single day they leave their occupying troops on the island, even after Cyprus joined the EU.
By "expansionist" policy you mean the policy of liberating Greek populations scattered across Greece? How is this comparable to arriving in a distant land and building settlements?
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Yeah yeah of course we also occupy Istanbul and Edirne and İzmir and Trabzon. Live with it and go hide under the skirts of big mama eu
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
No, you are not occupying those places, because after the treaty of Lausanne and the oopulation exchange there are no Greek people living there, except for the recognized Greek minority of Constantinople.
Before the treaty of Lausanne, Greece liberated Greek populations under Ottoman rule. This isn't expansionism.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
No coming to Anatolia with an army and ethnically cleansing was not an occupation and if the military regime of the seventies in Greece succeeded enosis and the invasion of Cyprus that also would not be expansionism. It is only if Turks or Muslims do this than it is expansionism.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
You don't know what you are talking about. No one is occupying Anatolia today. Unlike Cyprus. If the Greek army came to Anatolia today, it would be an occupation, but there is no Greek army there, is there?
KuroNekoX3@reddit
It's not no is occupying Anatolia today, it's like they "couldn't" occupy. Greece tried to demolish the status quo of the Cyprus by supporting extremist junta thus ignoring the guarateur status of Turkey and the UK. A conflict was born because of that and Greece lost and a new status quo was born.That's about it. It doesn't matter Northern side isn't recognized internationally "now". After a big shift in world powers, this matter will be solved sooner or later. Nothing changed in history despite all this democracy talk or whatever suits your agendas. Strong decides, weak follows.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
What? Are we guilty of hypothetical occupations now? LMAO. After the treaty of Lausanne, Greece hasn't occupied anything. Unlike Turkey.
Ok, the rest of your argument is basically might makes right. We'll see about that I guess. Just keep in mind that there are more than one ways this issue could be eventually "solved". Also, before claiming "status quo", maybe try to get your fellow Turkic countries to recognize your nonexistent pseudo-state.
KuroNekoX3@reddit
If you had been successful in that occupation we wouldn't have even a chance to survive and Greece would have been the conqueror of their ancestral land and nobody would give a damn about muslims killed and land grabbed from Ottoman Empire but you were "weak" and couldn't do it. That's what kept you doing things mentioned above. It doesn't matter who recongizes what. When the shift of powers happens, things can change in a matter of days. Turkey is getting ready for upcoming WW3 and what does Greece have? Economy that can crumble in a scenario of war(tourism)? Weapons and ammo bought from your so-called allies? Or manpower leaving your country? We will see what about that as you said.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Again, you are talking about events happened before the treaty of Lausanne and blaming us for hypotheticals that never happened. This is simply insane. I don't know what to say honestly. I assume treaties mean nothing to you? You think that because something bad happened before a treaty, you get to do whatever you want after the treaty? Yeah, we'll see where this mindset gets you.
KuroNekoX3@reddit
Where was the treaty between Greece, Turkey and the UK when Greece was supporting the junta and trying to get the Turkey and the UK out of Cyprus and add the island to Greece land? It's funny how Greeks are so butthurt about this while the UK just accept the new status quo. And now you guys trying to get the UK bases out of Cyprus? You guys never learn do you? Turks in Northern Cyprus will continue to increase in number while Greek and and southern Cypriot population decreases. The US is weakening and Israel can't even deal tribal milita for decades despite all American support. You have such wonderful regional allies right? The EU will sooner or later become centralized and none of Greece's worries will matter in the large scope of things or it will fragment and scatter. It will be funny to see the EU you trust so much stuck between Russia and the US.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Again, you are talking about hypotheticals. Greece isn't occupying Cyprus today and, therefore, unlike you, isn't violating the treaty. If Greece was occupying Cyprus you would be right to call it out.
Why would the UK give a fuck? They were colonial occupiers of the island themselves, of course they don't care about this. Also, why do you sympathize with them so much? Did you even want the island to gain its independence in the first place or did you like it under British rule? The UK bases are remnants of the colonization of the island by the British, what are we supposed to learn? Lmao. It's not like we kicked them out forcefully, which would be a violation of the treaty.
The Turks of Northen Cyprus can't become the majority, simply because the Greek Cypriot side has much more territory. So, if your strategy is population replacement, I wouldn't bet on that. The other stuff that you say about the US, Israel and the EU are completely irrelevant. Anyway, Greece doesn't expect any of those countries to solve its problems. There are only specific agreements and partnerships.
KuroNekoX3@reddit
Then how are you gonna solve them?
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
What did we occupy from Greece after Lausanne I beg you pardon? Why are you lying?
But after Lausanne Greece is arming the island before the coast of Türkiye with weapons and thus violating this agreement. After Lausanne Greece is occupying even today Islands that below to Türkiye. After Lausanne Greece tries to enlarge their sea territory to 12 miles. What did Türkiye occupy from Greece or do you think Cyprus belongs to Greece and you want Enosis?
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Did I ever say from Greece? After the treaty, Greece didn't occupy any territory at all. Turkey occupied a Greek majority territory. It's simple. The "arming" is completely irrelevant to the occupation. It happened afterwards, and of course it is a consequence of what Turkey did in Cyprus. That's what started this snowball effect. Before Cyprus, the relations of Greece and Turkey were actually pretty good.
Note that in the treaty of Lausanne, Turkey abdicated from all claims on Cyprus. Read the treaty.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
We see at as using our garatee right not an occupation and deep down you know this is true because we were faster and you wanted to do the same thing
If it is zooooo bad what we did why did you want to do the same but could not?
You must read the treaty Türkiye Greece and UK made in the sixties. Much later than Lausanne.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Again, the occupation isn't what you did in 1974, when Greece attempted Enosis. The occupation is what you keep doing every day in 2026, when Cyprus is an EU state, which by definition means it cannot be annexed by Greece, another EU state.
Btw, this treaty never mentioned you had the right to occupy the island. It gave you the right of intervention, not occupation. You abdicated from all claims on Cyprus with the treaty of Lausanne.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Yeah of course you know what you are talking about.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Yeah well, I told you what I know. Feel free to dispute it.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
You don't know anything. You don't face the double standards of the west daily. You don't know the hypocrisy of the west because you are somewhat part of the west. I live in the west and face this daily. It is everywhere from micro level to macro level. If a Muslim steals from a shop ALL Muslims are bad and terrorist. It a western man does it there is always an excuse. If a Muslim commits n act of terrorism EVERY Muslim is terrorist. If a white person does it it was a solo act of an delusional man. This is the west in a nutshell
DimGenn2@reddit
Yeah, colonizers usually get kicked out after liberation.
CryptographerOk7588@reddit
Yeah so we did the right thing by kicking the Greeks out
Ordinary-Conflict529@reddit
You formed a ridiculous organization called Enosis and tried to expel the Turks from the island. You unilaterally tried to extend your maritime zone to 12 miles, attempting to seize the entire Aegean Sea. You armed the islands and disregarded the agreements. I invite you to think more objectively.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
TMT , Denkas , Taksim
Blue Homeland , " Grey Zones"
Ethnic cleansing of Imvros/ Tenedos ( Bokceada / Gokceada ) , invasion of Cyprus , Turkish army of Aegean Coast.
Do the Greeks of Imvros/ Tenedos have autonomy, as your state signed in 1923? No .
Yeah , you sure do buddy
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Lmao literally all you've mentioned happened as a response.
Taksim? A response to Enosis.
Blue homeland? Response to greek maritime demands
İntervention on cyprus? Response to greece invading cyprus and overthrowing the cypriotic government
Turkish army? Greek fighter jets im turkish airspace.
Literally a goddamn joke of an argument
bill_cipher1996@reddit
From my perspective you both cant behave like adults.
freddo_expresso@reddit
The International Community unilaterally condemned your invasion and occupation as illegal, and an act of genocide. Not us.
It's literally our right by International Law to extend our miles to 12.
We armed our islands because we don't trust you after the invasion of Cyprus, and also reminding you you broke the agreement by expelling the Greeks of Constantinople.
There is nothing comparable between us and your crimes.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Greeks when they realize that the EU can push international agendas for them because its based on unanimity rather than majority vote
Greeks when they realize that nations need to actually recognize a treaty in order for it to have an effect and they can use the EU to push their will onto international policies
Greeks when...you get the point
Also, these kinds of justification only work for you.
Because what does Cyprus have to do with you?
Greece invaded cyprus way before Turks even entered the island, who do you think overthrew the cypriotic government?
YOU invaded cyprus.
And you talk about treaties like you havent eradicated the cretan Turks and civilians in tripolitsa
"Nothing comparable" yeah İ bet
herhangibirperson@reddit
Europe is a natural enemy of Turks as a whole. Supporting and whitewashing groups like PKK and EOKA B, turning a blind eye to when Turks are attacked (like in Montenegro), whitewashing racism against Turks, abandon Turkey against Russia and then cry when Turkey drifts away from Europe, supported the occupation of internationally recognized Azerbaijani land but then has the audacity to cry about Cyprus, promote filling Turkey up with millions of immigrants but cry and vote for the far right once a couple thousand enter their border
TechnicianTimely2879@reddit
Do you have a job? You’re commenting under everything.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
It's only a natural enemy if you make it to be. Greece wants to choke turkey out of Aegean and Cyprus shouldn't have killed their Turkish Cypriot citizens. They shouldn't even have been a member state but Greece threw a tantrum. That's all Greece can do anyway
dragonite__@reddit
EU needs to accept Turkey and Ukraine if they want to be a strong force in the future against the likes of Russia, China, USA
Accomplished-Bass690@reddit
Turkey is currently occupying the Northern half of a EU country? That makes an alliance quite difficult
lastethere@reddit
You mean NATO? Because UE has not army for now. And Turkey is already in NATO...
dragonite__@reddit
EU needs to become a federal structure with a standing army
Critical-Ad-8507@reddit
Why?N.A.T.O. is already there.
Adistaktos34@reddit
Turkey is not going to fight and the Europeans know this. It will be neutral again.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
https://i.redd.it/d3rs0e58eqwg1.gif
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
He aint wrong
thatMrGecko@reddit
they already walked this back.
eu is a union of values and princip-
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
How did they walk this back? The Commission defended her statement.
thatMrGecko@reddit
they said they included turkey because it's a regional power, not because it's a rogue state. or something like that. can't bother to check rn
Critical-Ad-8507@reddit
Where is Iran grouped meanwhile?
SignificantAd7603@reddit
>"Turkey is a threat to be countered by EU"
> Turkey and more than half of the EU members are also the members of NATO.
okbuddy~~retar~~
casual_redditor69@reddit
I have nothing else to say, but şikdir Ursula.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
İ find it funny how most talks here isnt the blatant preparation of war against Turkey and more about the Northern Cyprus problem
Like we were the ones overthrowing the Cyprus government in the 70s lmao
AquatiCarnivore@reddit
leave my ~~greek~~ turkish frands alone! we love them and support them! ~~until they get bombed by Israel, then we don't know them, who are they?~~
Careless-Situation68@reddit
i would group US with Russia and China, not Turkey
alkorisno@reddit
They are more alike, but they still have some competition between them. They might make a deal again like Reagan, Tatcher and Gorbacev did to split the third world, but I think it is too late for that
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Agree.
Ujemegaz@reddit
freddo_expresso@reddit
Sure Mehmet, fetch me döner with extra tzatziki
Ujemegaz@reddit
I prefer the one with pork, thanks for the service Jorgo.
kus-avci@reddit
you cant pay it
go beg some more in europe maybe they can pay it
freddo_expresso@reddit
three times your salaries 💰
kus-avci@reddit
your country still a beggar country
i know how your presidents begged europe for more money back in the day of your bankruptcy
Elmalukat@reddit
That is not even true, the salaries are quite close.
kus-avci@reddit
so more lies of the buthurt greek got it.
freddo_expresso@reddit
You are bankrupt as we speak though, the whole world knows, and you know as well.
kus-avci@reddit
you talk out your behind thats not what the numbers say
you guys where for reaal bankrupt and started begging like a homeles guy i konw truth hurts but dont throw lies because you feel like it
Elmalukat@reddit
Any quick check will show that salaries are quite close.
Even a look at Numbeo will show you that.
Athens and Istanbul are identical
Battlefleet_Sol@reddit
yes leeching the eu for salaries
freddo_expresso@reddit
Sorry for being more successful, keep finding excuses :*
Battlefleet_Sol@reddit
yes very succesfull beggars
Elmalukat@reddit
Tzatziki is not even a real word, steal better next time
freddo_expresso@reddit
Istinpoli 🤣
alkorisno@reddit
Everybody who doesnt want to send their people to war in Ukraine is considered pro Russian in European media.
greekhop@reddit
According to AI:
Turkey's relationship with the European Union (EU) in 2026 remains strained due to several long-standing and emerging points of friction. While the EU views Turkey as a vital partner for migration management and regional security, Ankara’s domestic and foreign policies frequently clash with European strategic interests.
1. Democratic Backsliding and Human Rights
Judicial Independence: Ankara has faced historical infringement proceedings for failing to implement European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) rulings.
Consolidation of Power: Reports from early 2026 highlight the further consolidation of authoritarian rule, characterized by the arrest of opposition mayors and the use of legal pressure to restrict media freedom.
Civil Liberties: The EU remains critical of Turkey's high incarceration rates and the routine blocking of online content and media outlets.
2. Foreign Policy Alignment A major point of contention is Turkey's low alignment rate—approximately 10%—with the EU’s Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP).
Sanctions on Russia: Unlike EU member states, Turkey has not joined Western sanctions against Russia following the invasion of Ukraine. Instead, it has functioned as a trade hub, leading to EU concerns regarding the circumvention of sanctions via Turkish companies.
Sovereignty Disputes: Turkey’s ongoing maritime and territorial disputes with Greece and Cyprus in the Eastern Mediterranean remain a fundamental barrier to unanimous EU support for any modernization of the Customs Union.
Regional Opportunism: Turkey's involvement in Syria and Libya often follows a pragmatic, non-committal strategy that prioritizes Turkish regional influence over collective EU security objectives.
3. Economic and Trade Friction While both sides rely on the Customs Union, several recent developments have created tension: Circumvention of Tariffs: The EU has monitored attempts by third-party manufacturers (specifically Chinese electric vehicle firms) to bypass EU tariffs by relocating production to Turkey for onward export to the European market.
Protectionism: Turkey has criticized new EU trade agreements with India and Mercosur, arguing they create "asymmetries" that disadvantage Turkish goods, while the EU has raised concerns about Turkish "non-tariff barriers" designed to favor local production.
4. Migration and Security Instrumentalization While Turkey hosts millions of refugees—a service for which it receives EU funding—Brussels remains wary of Ankara’s potential to "instrumentalize" migration as a political lever. Additionally, reports from early 2026 have raised concerns about the presence of radical groups and the "politicization" of religious authorities operating within Europe, which the EU views as a threat to internal social cohesion.
Korin23@reddit
We have country in the Middle East that bombs almost everyone risking another refugee crisis, daddy us threatening to invade Greenland but Turkey is an issue? She should stick to her ponies and leave politics
franzee@reddit
Turkey? No. Erdogan? Absolutely belongs in that group
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
The leader, in this case Erdogan, represents the country. So differentiating them is just ridiculous.
franzee@reddit
You sir, seem to live in a fantasy world where propaganda, corruption and honesty do not exist and democracy makes sense.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
No , he doesn't live in Turkey.
Ninevolts@reddit
They can easily get rid of him if Germany cancels secondary citizenships of the diaspora like Austria did. Erdogan cheats thanks to the diaspora votes...
ElLoboTurco@reddit
yeah just ignore the fact that 20m in türkiye voted for him too...it was the couple 100.000 votes from overseas that elected him lol
i knew that turkish education is a joke but even you should know that 20m > 1m (or whatever was the overseas vote)
Ninevolts@reddit
20m in Turkey would NEVER vote for someone else. They're the Islamist side of the country. It's a lost cause. There's not much can be done. Mainland votes are sooo close, eliminating diaspora votes (Erdogan gets total of 2m from Europe while CHP gets... almost nothing) would get rid of Erdogan easily. And it's about the get worse as islamists are having much more children than the opposition supporters...
Plus, since CHP, the opposition party is unable to check the voting process in Germany, that makes it a breeding ground for cheating.
SilverPhilosopher46@reddit
They voted for him though.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
You mean like, the Turks who vote should actually own their mistakes and start taking the thing seriously?
Sir, we don't do that here.
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit
If we are this powerful, I'm proud 💪💪
Imaginary-Cow-1828@reddit
Things are going great in Turkey. Just ask the political opposition. They're having a great time in prison.
Stokkolm@reddit
Sketchy website changes the wording of a statement to get clicks. That's my opinion on it.
erratic_thought@reddit
Nah its Bibi talking.
Broadest_Peak@reddit
That’s the result when Germans run the EU. They have a perverse tendency to always choose the path of destruction and seem to think the EU is their 4th Reich. No Ursula, we don’t want to fight Russia AND Turkey ffs.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
https://i.redd.it/gnmqr7deupwg1.gif
int23_t@reddit
As long as the government stats they are telling the truth.
I also believe Turkish government is a "threat to be countered"
VisibleReport5008@reddit
mitsotakis is this you?
BadBasik@reddit
NATO is truly a farse...
chrstianelson@reddit
They sort of walked that statement back, later. When they received blowback from their own ranks.
ThorAndHammers@reddit
The only threat is the military industrial complex's thirst for more revenue streams