EU foreign ministers reject proposal to suspend association agreement with Israel | European Union
Posted by _Kiith_Naabal_@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 47 comments
Kallas rejected criticism that the bloc’s approach to Israel suggested a double standard, a charge levelled by some EU insiders, while raising doubts about the impact of sanctions. “A suspension of the association agreement, will it stop the expansion [by Israeli settlers] on the West Bank? You know this is probably also not true.”
Separately she said the EU would add to wide-ranging restrictions on Iran by adopting new sanctions on Iranians involved in limiting free navigation through the strait of Hormuz. The EU would aim to adopt the sanctions in May, she said.
TheBeardPlays@reddit
So the European Union is apparently deciding that the horse they have hitched thier cart to is not going to damage them in the long term... Yea good luck with that.
mrdevlar@reddit
You have to understand the precarious position that the EU finds itself via the US right now.
We all recognise that we need to do some things (security independence, digital sovereignty, etc) but we also realize we cannot do those things right away because it will lead to a direct confrontation with the Americans.
For the time being we're keeping our mouths shut while quite a lot of work is going on under the surface in those areas. When that work is done we'll see the pivot, but until it is, we're not going to have a direct fight with the US over this. It's not that important compared to a lot of other things.
TheBeardPlays@reddit
Yea man — if your moral position is “we oppose genocide, just not when it is politically inconvenient,” then you do not actually have a moral position at all. That is exactly why so much of the world sees Western talk about values as pure hypocrisy.
Freenore@reddit
And when the people displaced from West Asia migrate to or seek asylum in Europe, European leaders will scratch their head as to why this is happening; or worse, it'll embolden the right-wing demagogues and ultimately harm their own democracies.
blobofhope@reddit
The damage is already there, this is hurting trust, reliability, our credibility in the world and European citizens… Europe can already be a divisive topic on economic and administrative topics, if we don’t have a solid basic value system (genocide is bad for example) it will hurt us in more ways than one, but they haven’t debated it yet, so we carry on hoping..
unarmageddon@reddit
I am genuinely baffled how one tiny country in the Middle East has so much soft power in geopolitics that the EU won't dare to condemn them, whilst the US bows its head to do its bidding.
Russia conducted its war in 2022 and the west collectively shunned and blocked Russia, and still do to this day. Israel conducts far more heinous actions that are far more blatant yet the west has been quiet about it (with the exception of a few).
By not doing anything, they're just proving the point that "international law" operates by double standards, and emboldening countries such as Russia.
mrdevlar@reddit
We're not concerned about Israel.
We're concerned about the US and we know full well that a condemnation of Israel will trigger a direct confrontation with the US that we cannot afford right now. We're too exposed against the US risk.
blobofhope@reddit
Ideology is sadly a very powerful thing…. And it makes people forget that two wrongs don’t make a right.
It is fair you are baffled, at this point most of us are, and I suspect that includes many European leaders even if their actions don’t reflect their thinking they cannot ignore the reality of what is happening.
I think some of them are now somehow “trapped” fearing a dominoes effect, they know they have supported and could be considered complicit… this is sickening.
Lowered12@reddit
So if sanctions are useless and there is no point to using them why she always supports every sanctions on Russia then?
I wonder what would be her reaction if someone said the same thing but replaced Israel with Russia or Iran with Ukraine
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
I’m sorry but it’s maddening that even at this point there is still anyone who doesn’t understand how things work (or pretends not to understand I should say)
Israel is a forward intelligence and military platform for NATO (America), and a source of income for arms industries and European capital
The realpolitik of it all is there are the ‘good’ guys and the ‘bad’ guys, there’s no morality at play here and there never has been. Anyone still pretending is being wilfully ignorant so they can keep on believing fairytales about the West and its values OR they fully understand but just think it’s a good thing because they’re the ones benefitting
Wanderhoden@reddit
With that, I wonder what made the EU draw the line with Russia invading Ukraine, since the EU (/Germany especially) seemed to benefit from Russian gas. Is it bc of Russia being a more direct threat to the EU than Israel will ever be?
mdedetrich@reddit
Oh that is very easy.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit (OP)
mdedetrich@reddit
A lot, but since WW2? Never, and thats whats import. The whole point of the EU project is stop all wars/armed conflicts and to resolve matters non violently. Russia has consistently failed at that.
Completely wrong, Jews were living in what we now call Israel well before Israel existed. Arab's were not defending themselves, they were practicing Pan-Arabism and hence at the time had a consistent, non-negotiable hardline position of refusing any other culture/ethnicity to live from Egypt to Jordan in any significant numbers.
Fun fact, the Palestinian leader Amin al-Husseini in the 1930's (well before the events you talked about unfolded) allied with Hitler with the explicit goal of cleansing all Jews from the middle east
The middle east is also filled with Pogroms and ethnic cleansing against Jews. Its in fact so bad/extreme that the population of Jews outside of Israel in the Middle East is effectively zero (Turkey is the exception here).
This accelerated massively since Israel was formed, because people in the middle east were incapable of separating out Jews from Israel (either its existence or its actions) and hence ironically causing mass migration of Jews to Israel for the safety of Jews.
Exepony@reddit
Just one comment ago you were talking about Russia's <...all the bad words you could think of...> mindset going back "centuries", now it's just the history since WW2 that's important to you? I think I just heard a sonic boom in the distance from the goalpost flying by.
mdedetrich@reddit
Thats a strawman you created, not me. My entire point is that in the EU, since WW2, has been almost entirely peaceful and the one exception to that country is, Russia.
Russia has a history of invading neighbours that goes back centuries and IT HASN'T STOPPED. On the other hand, countries in the EU have stopped, since WW2 which check notes, finished around 75 years ago.
Yes the Balkans are basically the Lebanon of EU, but ever since the NATO involvement with the Bosnian genocide and some Balkan countries being accepted into EU its has been entirely peaceful there. Your actually proving my point here.
Turkey is part of NATO, not EU. Talking about moving the goalposts.
Wanderhoden@reddit
Thank you for the great response. I did not realize that Germany is also a huge donor to Palestine. German guilt is the gift that keeps on giving, I guess.
mdedetrich@reddit
Germany's stance may seem contradictory in light of the actions of the most recent Israeli government, but historically it made perfect moral sense.
They wan't to ensure that Israel has the means to survive and exist as a country (and without all of those arm sales from Germany and other countries, its quite likely that Israel either wouldn't exist or would be a failed state).
On the other hand, Germany historically supported a two state solution and they also believe in Palestinian self determination.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Because Russia is one of the bad guys and because it's not about the EU's own interests it's about America's who are a massive exporter of LNG
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit (OP)
You still wonder? Separating Russia from the EU, especially Germany, and pushing Europe toward deeper US dependence was a strategic aim for long time.
EU has no independent foreign police.
ShamScience@reddit
Many EU member states separately applied sanctions to South Africa during the later apartheid years, for similarly grotesque human rights abuses to those Israel has recently committed. Why have Europeans lowered their standards?
NaldoCrocoduck@reddit
The same South Africa during Apartheid with which Israel collaborated, notably to construct nuclear weapons?
ShamScience@reddit
Yep, the same one, where SA was widely praised for later voluntarily dismantling all the nukes. Probably still a good goal to aim for in all other contexts.
blobofhope@reddit
They haven’t they just don’t apply them the same way depending on the offender apparently.. if they confirm this decision it would be such a stain.
1.15 Million people have already signed the initiative asking Europe to take action, I guess we need more. :(
balamb_fish@reddit
The Dutch foreign minister says we support sanctioning Israel, but only if the EU agrees on it.
Which means it's just an excuse. He knows some EU states will always block it so he can say it's not his fault, it's on the EU.
sovietarmyfan@reddit
Well, this is democracy in working people. Although there are of course some countries in Europe that oppose Israel, the majority has decided that it will not be suspended. Countries that oppose this decision are free to leave the EU.
blobofhope@reddit
It isn’t done yet, sign and share the initiative.
Thouispure69@reddit
Kallas is so full of shit. So sanctions are only good if they work, and apparently they won't work on a tiny country like Israel, but will on a massive country like Russia. Sure. Makes sense. Great reasoning. No double standard detected.
re_carn@reddit
Israel is the most awkward topic for... all politicians. Because it does whatever it wants: it seizes territory, bombs civilians, commits warcrimes and genocide - and it can’t be condemned for it (even America can be, but not Israel).
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
Not all politicians, all western politicians. Plenty global South and former colony countries are very vocally against Israel
name20948234@reddit
So you don't know about Spain, Ireland, Norway, Slovenia and others that have repeatedly criticized the Genocide ?
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
Ireland and Slovenia both fit the above description. Spain and Norway are welcome outliers
WongFarmHand@reddit
These people like Kallas consider themselves righteous heroes the way they talk about Russia and Ukraine. Another story with a clear aggressor and defender
And they sink into their shirts and cower whenever Israel comes up. You'd think the hypocrisy would be too hard to stomach but if you have no principles I guess it's probably easier
GoyoMRG@reddit
She and her team fucked up the economy in Estonia quite badly....
Her being rewarded with the position she has in the EU is just freaking insane to me...
Daysleeper1234@reddit
No, it's not. Position in EU is rewarded to a loyal politician who fucks up so badly in their homeland that they know they can't get elected.
brassmonkey666@reddit
Same with Von der Leyen as minister of Defense in Germany.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Impose the same sanctions on Israel and they'll literally implode in a couple of weeks. The problem could be easily solved. It's also funny that Zionists don't realize this either and think how Israel is so important on the world stage.
MrTrollMcTrollface@reddit
Replace Israel with Russia in her statement, does that mean we should suspend the sanctions against Russia? After all it didn't stop them.
blobofhope@reddit
Noooo they told us very clearly there is no double standard. As Macron says it so well, it’s not that we don’t agree, it’s that we don’t understand…. /s
name20948234@reddit
She is also in favor of not developing European autonomy in weapons but subjugating themselves to the US by buying theirs. Von der Leyen sure likes to appoint people that seem to be working for the interests of a fascist US. Margrethe Vestager another Von der Leyen appointee tried to appoint a Microsoft lobbyist to an EU position that would oversee fair competition. She was in charge the DSA that should have reigned in big tech firms - other than a few fines nothing of consequence happened. When there was a collective effort to tax multinationals she was again in charge and it failed. Traitors to a whole continent.
blobofhope@reddit
This makes us such an unreliable joke, Europe should be better than this. It is really sad to see we are not capable of coming together to say not to this level of atrocities.
🇪🇺 To all the European Citizens if you haven’t yet signed the initiative please go and sign it, and if you have share it again…
You can find it by searching : Demand the full suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement in view of Israel’s violations of human rights
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
In the EU’s defence, Palestinians are brown so Israel can continue to rape, torture and mass murder them until there are none left.
The saddest thing about this is that the EU is Israel’s largest trading partner. They could force a change in Israel if they sanctioned Israel. However instead they continue to support it while claiming Israel wouldn’t care if 1/3 of its export market vanished.
Kitchen_Letter8775@reddit
By the same logic, they shouldn’t have sanctioned Russia, because it didn’t stop them from invading Ukraine. Apparently you must lose your common sense to become a european politician.
rscarrab@reddit
Another 20 years of disenfranchised voters who'll lean right simply because they abhor the alternative option of supporting hypocrisy.
Haven't learnt a fucking thing. It's pathetic and spineless, but make no mistake if the U.S. wasn't actively FUCKING OVER people who legitimately criticise Israel (see: Francesca Albanese) we wouldn't be in half the mess we're in.
viktlo70@reddit
So, we do not take a right action because it may be not useful ? So we should also stop sanctioning Russia, since it is 4 years that they should have "shattered" Russian economy....
furimmerkaiser@reddit
Every time I hear something new from her and it makes me hate her even more. Remember that next time when you lecture some other country about human rights
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