CFIs - How do you teach touch-n-goes?

Posted by SuddenAd6104@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 15 comments

Hi - new CFI on a burner account...

Went on a flight with a chief pilot today at a school I applied to work at. Flight was very smooth - no issues up until the very last landing.

Chief asked me to show him how to do a touch-n-go in a 172. We came in normally, round out, flare and touch down with no issues with full flaps. After I touched down, I retracted the flaps to 20°, applied full power and took off again. During the climb as we built airspeed and altitude, I retracted the flaps incrementally until back to the clean configuration.

He was not happy with this and said I demonstrated a go around instead. His critique mentioned that touch n goes require flaps fully being retracted to the 0° position, not 20°.

In all my training up until CFI - I've never had anyone say this... but then again - I did all my training at the same school... so... take that with salt.

Aside from obviously saying that this was news to me and that I've never had anyone bring it up to my attention, I offered my thought process on the maneuver. I mentioned that we would want to have the flaps at 20° since they would help us get airborne again quicker but he seemed like he didn't want to discuss the topic.

Am I wrong? I didn't find a clear answer in the AFH and videos on YouTube show both techniques of pilots fully retracting, and some retracting to flaps 10 or 20°. Did I screw up my CFI interview?

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Hi - new CFI on a burner account...

Went on a flight with a chief pilot today at a school I applied to work at. Flight was very smooth - no issues up until the very last landing.

He was not happy with this and said I demonstrated a go around instead. His critique mentioned that touch n goes require flaps fully being retracted to the 0° position, not 20°.

In all my training up until CFI - I've never had anyone say this... but then again - I did all my training at the same school... so... take that with salt.

Am I wrong? I didn't find a clear answer in the AFH and videos on YouTube show both techniques of pilots fully retracting, and some retracting to flaps 10 or 20°. Did I screw up my CFI interview?

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theoreticalking@reddit

Do you perform a short or soft field takeoff with 20 degrees of flaps? In my Cessna POH, it specifically mentions that "flap deflections greater than 10 degrees are not approved for takeoff."

Flyingredditburner44@reddit

Chief is right.

redditburner_5000@reddit

I'd never teach touch and gos with flaps out. I've never seen it taught that way. I probably would not pass a pre-solo student on a stage check if he did that. At the very least, it adds needless monkeymotion to a phase of flight where the student needs to be just flying the plane.

I agree that you taught a go around.

Xelander508@reddit

In my cfi experience, i always teach with the safest method of doing something in mind, knowing the student (who is an information sponge) is going to fly literally exactly how their told, until they build a few hundred hours and can make their own decisions. So I teach them the 0° method. Theres no point in making them fiddle to find the 10° position (specially considering how hard that is on the older 172s). As some said already, gently slam the handle up, see theyre moving, cram throttle and carb ht.

Now personal technique: I consider myself very proficient with the stick and rudder. I have a lot of practice in this area, typically fly a 182rg in my spare time. When im doing a touch n go, its for the purpose of logging the landing, i dont give 2 poops about practicing full stops. That being said im on the ground barely long enough to get the wheels rolling (sometimes only one main actually does lol). First thing i do is power, get stable in the gnd effect and then get to flaps 20. From there its your standard go around. PR, gear up, 70 kts, increment the flaps up.

Reason for the spiel: my opinion on the topic here is it depends on how you do the touch n go. Is it closer to the balked lndg, or a simulated full stop then takeoff, you know? In a way, my touch n gos are kinda both so am i wrong in the way i do it?

Again, never would have a student do this. Most CPL applicants arent capable of learning this way but, just my experiences. Have at it if you think i could do better. Cheers🤙

x4457@reddit

Yes, you are absolutely wrong to initiate a takeoff with a flap setting greater than the allowed takeoff flap settings.

172s are approved for takeoffs with 0-10 degrees of flaps. If you’re at idle power on the ground, that’s a takeoff, not a go around.

Just slap the flaps up on the ground, verify they’re moving, and initiate the takeoff.

M2K-throwaway@reddit

Flaps 20 isn't even allowed on takeoff in the 172

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Aircraft should be reconfigured to an approved takeoff configuration, so for a typical 172 that'd be flaps up or at 10 degrees.

For a long, paved runway, flaps up is a clear choice. If you're on a shorter runway, or on grass, then 10 is better.

sludgybeast@reddit

Not a CFI but a student so take it fwiw

For touch and goes carb in, flaps up full power. Flaps and power happen at the same time for me, by the time im at V1, flaps are fully retracted. If im faster for whatever, flaps feather out with positive rate.

For go around, describe as you said but for me I was instructed to take first 10 degs out quick to reduce drag, then feather the remaining 30 with speed & positive rate.

Ymmv, but this is what im being taught in a 172h

colin_do@reddit

Your 172H doesn't have a V1 speed.

ltcterry@reddit

How?

Use the touch and go checklist. Oh, wait. There isn't one.

Why would you ever takeoff with 20° of flaps? Have you ever done that on purpose? I hope not. That would have been an immediate checkride fail for sure.

I am not a fan of touch and go landings for Student Pilots. We teach "don't touch anything on the runway" then have them do just that. And people who can barely land are trying to takeoff before the landing is even over. For what? To gain one more trip around the pattern in an hour? Just do stop and go at a decent length runway.