American Airlines avoids midair collision with Air Canada jet at JFK Airport
Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 84 comments
Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 84 comments
Severe_Air_4353@reddit
Yep USA blames Canada , last accident , with fire truck , jet did not stop for the slow moving vehicle . See why Canadians stay out of any where , near ice .
NotACompleteDick@reddit
AA nearly causes collision and forces Air Canada jet to go-around would be a better way of putting it. American was the cause of this, they came in from the south and overshot the 31 left approach path half way to the 31 right path. Fortunately JFK controllers were very attentive and called them before they had gone too far.
OrneryPangolin1901@reddit
are they this common in other countries? I just checked Canada’s TSB investigations list and there’s only 34 reports and majority of them are involving sea planes. I don’t know if there are incidents that don’t need to be escalated to investigations and report thus skewing numbers
Cancerisbetterthanu@reddit
Canada doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of air traffic the US does particularly the eastern seaboard so that tracks
hellomoto_20@reddit
But it’s orders of magnitude different. 10,000 per year in the US vs a few dozen over multiple decades. Is this proportional to air traffic?
CarminSanDiego@reddit
Was it over shoot or visually lining up to wrong runway
zeolus123@reddit
Ahh so just like a few years ago when the news went nuts reporting every single train derailment after that one in Ohio.
labe225@reddit
That was so frustrating because people on Reddit were posting derailments that were minor and treating it like the world was burning. Meanwhile a wheel had just slipped in the yard and crew had already resolved it by the time the news broke.
gefahr@reddit
Influence campaigns are all over Reddit and TikTok/Instagram (where much Reddit content comes from nowadays). Not surprising.
funksoulbrothers@reddit
it's not a near miss, it's a near hit
ChapterThr33@reddit
Damnit man I'm flying in a week
Aggressive_Let2085@reddit
And you’ll be safe doing it.
ChapterThr33@reddit
You edited the initial statement to be softer, originally it was just the first sentence and was definitely dismissive and assumed I was actually worried about my safety.
I was making a joke about how having these numbers highlighted immediately before flying (after a rash of incidents, let's be honest with ourselves) was not ideal.
It was an annoying and smug response, initially. That's all. Not complicated.
Aggressive_Let2085@reddit
Sarcasm isn’t really detected through text easily. Didn’t come off as a joke lol, so I wanted to pass some information along. Sorry you took it that way.
ChapterThr33@reddit
Lol at the angry flight nerds pushing up their glasses and getting ready to talk statistics.
Of COURSE this doesn't change the fact that it's a perfectly safe means of travel, but the human brain isn't always exactly rational is it? Lol y'all take yourselves way too seriously.
eltonjohnpeloton@reddit
It’s not anyone else’s fault that you’re anxious, though.
CodeNameCobra666@reddit
Do these numbers include GA and not just commercial?
SilentSpr@reddit
So many GA flights are uncontrolled (by atc) and without transponders. I suspect if you include GA the number will go up
Severe_Air_4353@reddit
Again , Canada is always in the way .
Soft-Team-8965@reddit
The amount of class calls this year has got to be investigated
anonymous4071@reddit
~~American Airlines~~ Republic Airlines avoids midair collision with ~~Air Canada~~ Jazz Aviation jet at JFK Airport.
But hey, what does accurate information mean in this sub anyways?
incitatus-says@reddit
If a kid working the drive through at McDonalds loses their cool and throws a milkshake at a driver and makes the news they can accurately be described as a McDonald’s through worker.
They are in fact an employee of 12459 HoldCo LLC. The company that owns that location.
Your comment, respectfully, is pure pedantry and adds zero value.
AtmosphereMiddle1682@reddit
It sometimes matters because they're operationally independent. Different types of airplanes, different types of pilots, different routes. AA owning it doesn't matter, it may as well be DeutscheBank. Now, it obviously may or may not matter based on the reader, but to people who know the difference, it might cause them to arrive at different conclusions. For example, if a flight crew at a major did this, I'd be floored. If a regional pilot did this, I'd still be shocked, but not outside the realm of possibility. A student pilot? To be expected.
It's reasonable that some people like yourself don't care, but it's also reasonable that it matters to others.
anonymous4071@reddit
That would be a good analogy if the jets had those airlines names on the side, but they don’t.
RPA would be flying an American Eagle jet, and Jazz would be flying a jet an Air Canada Express jet.
The distinction is important, even in the situation you mentioned. Same as most hotels that are franchises.
Details are important and, respectfully, you’re lack the understanding of that and have nothing of value to add here.
incitatus-says@reddit
This comment is incoherent.
Also, your != you’re.
anonymous4071@reddit
It’s okay, reading comprehension is difficult for some people. You must be struggling with the details. Bless your heart.
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
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gefahr@reddit
As a customer, If I buy a ticket from delta, that's a delta flight to me and the public. Them contracting it out is an implementation detail I don't care about.
OntarioPaddler@reddit
Those 'details' aren't important to the story at all.
anonymous4071@reddit
Yes, yes they are.
OntarioPaddler@reddit
You are the only one here that thinks so but I'm guessing that's a usual occurrence for you.
ilrosewood@reddit
I agree completely
mfsp2025@reddit
Physically cringed every time the reporter (and even the top comment) said “American Airlines crew”. No one involved was an AA or AC crew.
And you could tell they were trying to dramatize for views. “Plane PACKED with passengers”. TCAS did its job.
Life_Detail4117@reddit
To be fair for the jazz crew being AC, unlike Republic they do announce it as air Canada jazz and air Canada branding is on the planes.
railker@reddit
And few outside of here probably knows who Republic or Jazz are. 😂
anonymous4071@reddit
Aviation reporting! We get it wrong! But we get it to you fast!
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit
Yeah, I think most would only know Jazz from the Air Canada accident at LGA a month ago.
Speaking of, curious to see what the preliminary report says on the matter (even if it's likely gonna be mostly a repeat of what we already know).
comrh@reddit
The graphic says they came within 350 feet but the reporter says "just over half a mile"??
railker@reddit
350' was about their altitude difference, Jazz was higher. Half a nautical mile laterally.
Moderately-Spiced@reddit
Was wondering if half a mile is really THAT close or is this news sensationalism?
AtmosphereMiddle1682@reddit
It's fucking ill. Especially when they're converging at a 90 degree angle.
djeryoo@reddit
A lot can happen very quickly when you're flying at \~80m/s. Obviously the AA aircraft wasn't flying directly AT the aircraft, but if you account for hazard detection, pilot decision making and reaction times, there isn't too much time left.
redcurrantevents@reddit
In my opinion, the latter
nicosloft04@reddit
Again??
Still-Sort-7562@reddit
I was on board the Jazz flight. Definitely felt the sudden climb.
the-simple-wild@reddit
Jazz: “pas the encore!” (from YouTube comments)
Historical-Piglet-86@reddit
I’m curious if they communicated to the passengers what happened or just carried on as usual.
mitigated_audacity@reddit
Why the fuck does the headline try and make it Air Canada at fault? It's very clear that the American airlines plane was in the wrong. Jesus Christ internet do better.
DoubleDDay69@reddit
American Airlines jet NEARLY causes midair collision with Air Canada jet at JFK airport, I fixed it for you.
It’s extremely important that we label these sort of articles correctly because the AA jet deviated off course, I don’t believe this was an ATC issue
Professional_Act_820@reddit
What language is JFK ATC speaking? I always wonder how anyone understands the controllers there.
Historical-Piglet-86@reddit
English?
Professional_Act_820@reddit
Right over your head
Minimum-South-9568@reddit
Why is it always air Canada? And doesn’t seem to be their fault in either case.
Comere@reddit
For some context, there are several things that could have happened here that would constitute the root cause for the overshoot...
Best guess--
ATC will give you an intercept heading to the final approach course of the cleared runway, generally a 30 degree intercept and clear you for the approach. In the aircraft, we will enter the heading and the plane turns to that heading. We will the ARM the computers which will "capture" the localizer frequency that coincides with the extended centerline of the runway. The clearance can be quite long and delivered quickly. It would generally sound something like "American 1234, you are 3 miles from XXXXX, turn left heading 190 and maintain 2000' until established, cleared for the ILS runway 22L, maintain 170 knots until 5 mile final", we are then required to read that information back, enter the heading, set the altitude and most importantly to this incident "ARM THE APPROACH", this is a button, or several buttons, that tell the computers/instruments onboard to turn when the aircraft senses that it is on the centerline for the runway you have programmed it to land on.
My guess is, they did not press the buttons, or pressed them, but not hard enough and failed to recognize the aircraft was not prepared to join final. In that case, the aircraft will continue to fly on the heading it was programmed to do, and the pilots failed to recognize they didn't arm the jet and that it was going to miss the final turn.
This ATC/Aircraft exchange happens THOUSANDS, if not TEN THOUSAND times a day and rarely results in this scenario. That all being said, the system worked, ATC computers alarmed, the controller recognized it and warned the other aircraft, TCAS (Traffic Collision and Avoidance System) within the aircraft recognized the conflict directing separation maneuvers and a larger accident was avoided.
Aviation is incredibly complicated and there are countless layers of training, skill, procedures and technology in place to capture errors like this. This results in one of the most robust and safe methods of transportation one can use!!!!
railker@reddit
Judging by the ATC audio in VASAviation's video, they were cleared for and flying the Visual approach for 31L. Autopilot on heading hold and just late on the turn?
Comere@reddit
When cleared for the visual, it reduces "in trail separation" requirements for ATC. Nearly universally, I'd say 99+% (not an exaggeration) of the time, we all still use the underlying approach, in this case the ILS, to program and fly the aircraft!
Jimmy2tx@reddit
Canadians right now all wondering what the fk is wrong with our neighbors?!
botany_bae@reddit
BradPittHasBadBO@reddit
0.5 nautical mile = 0.92 km = 920 m. It doesn't seem all that close. What am I missing?
Mermaid_Kiss@reddit
do you undestand how quickly a plane can close 920m?
Wezpa@reddit
When planes normally should be separated from each other around 4-6 nm, and suddenly are within 0,5 nm, that is rather alarming.
Remember these things travel around 1 nm every 22 seconds assuming a speed of 160 knots on long final.
CrossBamboAtTen@reddit
You’re not a news company that needs a news story to fill time and scare the masses.
NettyVaive@reddit
Thank goodness Air Canada has just suspended flights to JFK!
KehreAzerith@reddit
I see "abc" I know the aviation news report is going to be the most overdramatic reporting
Nok1a_@reddit
I know half a mile, but in a plane how close is half a mile? is it too dangeours, or its close but nothing to worry about? cos its around 800m which is "quite" a lot but in a plane at those speeds, maybe reaction time is not enough ( I honestly have no clue)
Gilmere@reddit
Guess its a matter of perspective. This "incident" was a success of the systems installed to warn the cockpit of a mistake (they happen). Seems like it worked in both aircraft and the RA got them separated safely. Sure, more details are still getting looked at but in general I think this one isn't necessarily an incident to be overly alarmed about. Attentive, serious, inquisitive, yes, but not GQ alarmed as this news bite would imply. I am certain these things happen from time to time around the NAS to varying degrees of proximity. And safety system for the most part work. Its why we have them, because humans are faulty.
redcurrantevents@reddit
This isn’t good but RAs are making the news now?
scotsman3288@reddit
AC is suspending flights from YUL and YYZ to JFK starting June 1st. I bet this expedites that one...and it should....we don't need our planes in these situations.
smierdek@reddit
how screwed is american atc situation atm? i was just at sfo and thankfully forgot about the understaffing
greasyspider@reddit
Pretty screwed. There isn’t a competent person in charge for miles
22Planeguy@reddit
I don't understand why ATC vectors aircraft on parallel approaches to intercept their finals in the same spot. Why not stagger the arrivals? That way even if an aircraft overshoots a bit, they're horizontally separated. What do we gain from simultaneous landings? It doesn't seem like staggering them would cause significant delays. Does it just make grounds job easier? Wake turbulence maybe?
Turkstache@reddit
JFK is very good at getting planes sequenced in at bare minimum interval. It's an escalating workload that gets pilots to lock in but also feels like they rely on pilot judgement/discretion to make things happen. I've been on approach when a controller gives batch instructions and non-standard calls to resolve complex issues and it typically works well, but one crew getting hung-up on their part can obviously derail everything.
I don't think it's so busy an environment that we need to make controller's back off. I think airlines need to do better in training to create saturated comms environments.
stickied@reddit
30 seconds for one plane might mean 30 seconds for all the rest behind them and create significant workload and delay. The job is safe, orderly and efficient. Not just safe.
Also, it probably works well hundreds of times a day, thousands of times a week and there's a bias from each controller that it'll keep working that way because it does. Then someone screws something up. If every 300 ops you have to spin an aircraft or re-sequence them entirely because you couldn't stagger them, and that keeps them in the air longer and increases the chances of something else happening.....is that actually safer?
22Planeguy@reddit
Except it wouldn't be a compounding 30 seconds, because spacing requirements wouldn't change. Nothing would actually change except aircraft would intercept final at alternating times instead of at the same times. I don't necessarily believe that changing it would really increase workload or decrease efficiency.
It doesn't require a total resequence if the timing doesn't work perfectly, just a five second delay in the base vector. If that's too much, we really need to consider if the amount of arrivals to that airport is sustainable.
I'm coming from the point of view of a pilot who has gotten these kinds of vectors before. It's uncomfortable to be pointed right at another jet being dependent on them turning correctly. I've had my autopilot overshoot finals before with little warning, though fortunately not on a parallel approach.
XenoRyet@reddit
So, something happened, safety provisions worked, nobody got hurt. Everything working as intended, but newscasters speak in concerned voices to generate ratings because it didn't bleed, but they still need something to lead?
cityburning69@reddit
You could also read it as: the absolute last line of defense worked and we should all learn a lesson from this event.
XenoRyet@reddit
And if it were aviation experts telling this story, that is how I would take it, but this is coming from broadcast news media, which are famously bad at reporting on aviation, or really anything technical at all, using talking heads that say whatever is on the teleprompter. As evidenced by the fact that this isn't actually the "absolute last line of defense" but rather just a little deeper into the safety margins than we like to go without doing an investigation to see what happened.
Again, shit happened, and the proper investigations are happening as a result, but nobody's life was actually in danger by two aircraft coming within a half mile of each other.
It's a serious event, but this coverage is bullshit.
TheForks@reddit
A TCAS RA isn’t the last line of defence?
Java-the-Slut@reddit
Aviation is such a weird dichotomy.
Safety is absolutely paramount except when it's implementing safe systems that prevent most dangerous situations from occurring in the first place.
Carlito_2112@reddit
We got the bubble headed bleached blonde, comes on at five.
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam in her eye.
It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry.
Ok_Depth9164@reddit
None of those noises were from either cockpit lol
Gitanes@reddit
JFK it's a mess
airport-codes@reddit
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