Aviation
Posted by cdro99@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 51 comments
I’ve been reading this subreddit for almost 3 months constantly. Is the hiring market as bad and redditors make it seem ?
I’ve heard about the ebb and flow of the industry given the VSL video that came out. Is the industry that saturated ?
Is it the plane deliveries a factor to the slowing down of hiring ?
How was hiring prior to the big Covid boom ?
Should I take out the loan to finish commercial + cfi+i
Do people have back up plans ?
Affectionate_Aspect4@reddit
There's a pilot shortage like there's a software engineer shortage. There's a shortage of experienced professionals and an over supply of junior, and everyone is mostly junior.
If you want a job in this market, be prepared to fly some really sketchy shit Lmao
ZanderBWC@reddit
It's not as bad as people say on here, it's actually way worse.
Kein-Deutsc@reddit
Yeah it is very bad as I’ve heard. Far and away too many pilots for not enough jobs. Pretty cyclical I’ve heard. The airlines got 30 years worth of pilots during the covid hiring surge just as they did in the 90s.
It seems pretty cyclical but can also just die with the market. I know that the legacy’s had a combined hiring of less than 70 durring the worst year of the 2008 recession
ZanderBWC@reddit
When WW3 kicks off, they're gonna need a lot of pilots.
MangledX@reddit
Everyone has a different story, and their story is not your story. I got my CFI and went directly to work for two prior schools I trained out without ever even having to interview. I've gotten hired by a 135 operation with less than ATP mins and 33 hours multi time. There's work for everyone eventually. Pay your dues, make good relationships and keep your flying clean and it'll happen. I'm an avid believer that not every doom and gloom story you read on here is always telling the whole truth. People with 5k hours not getting jobs have done something in the past that have eliminated their chances, or they're simply insufferable people who have built the wrong kind of relationships with people. Be likeable. Be good at flying and be persistent on your path and it will work out for you.
mfsp2025@reddit
Go out there and see for yourself. A bunch of pilots on the internet can’t tell you what to do, we can only tell you what we see.
7 years ago, this sub told me not to go to an aviation school and not to take out loans. That’s exactly what I did. It worked out beautifully for me and I have zero regrets. But it doesn’t work for lots of people and I don’t think I got bad advice.
This sub also told me not to do a regional cadet program. That was bad advice. My seniority is below everyone who did do a regional cadet program at my airline. And lots of CFIs who followed that advice probably regret it too.
Best thing you can do is see what your options are and what makes sense for you. It might be against what we say. But timing is everything. It might work out. It might not.
Weasel474@reddit
This is like saying you played two rounds of Russian Roulette with a half loaded revolver and were ok. Sure, it works for some, but it's pretty frequent to absolutely screw someone.
mfsp2025@reddit
My point is what works for someone might not work for someone else.
ATP flight school sure seemed to work great for all the young FOs I’m flying with. Or the second career guys out there. But people on this sub say it’s awful and to never do it. This sub suggests part 61 pay as you go.
If I did part 61 and paid as I went, I’d be a 2000 hour CFI right now. Instead I’m a captain at a regional. Timing is everything and honestly, this industry is nothing but a gamble.
It’s always good to place the safe bet. But the risky bet isn’t always bad and could get you ahead of the game. And the safe bet could still fail. Just my view though.
AccomplishedFarmer91@reddit
You at a MAJOR disadvantage. During a "normal" or "slow" hiring period, you will ALWAYS take a back seat to military pilots as well as pilos trained at targe, aviation academic institutions like Embry Riddle. I would think long and hard about taking out a loan just to still be at the back of the line. Good luck.
SSMDive@reddit
I mean for LTP jobs isn't the most common advice to get your CFI at a place that will hire you when you are done?
I know my banner job I got it because I knew one of their pilots (I also had like 300 hours TW already). And my skydiving job I got because I had worked at the same DZ as a skydiving instructor.
I'd imagine someone with the "inside" track would be hired as a LTP long before some stranger that came from Riddle. Now 121, maybe.
AccomplishedFarmer91@reddit
Agree. For 121 (ultimate goal?)you will be at a disatvantage / back of the bus. CFI and other \~local type jobs....yes I would agree that local knowledge / local connections and name-to-a-face is likely most important. If you are putting in applications for jobs around the country you are competing with those local names and faces....
SaltyHooker69@reddit
Idk man, I’ve got two job offers as a 270hr ASEL with an A&P. I’m inclined to believe it’s not all so bad
SSMDive@reddit
No disrespect, but I'd bet that A&P has a ton to do with it.
Guysmiley777@reddit
The hiring market is about in the middle of the road. The problem is the supply of pilots is massively inflated right now making it seem grim for pilots looking for a job.
Not really. If you could snap your fingers and give every airline the aircraft they have on order you'd only make a small dent in the current oversupply of pilots once the pipeline moved (unemployed to CFIs, CFIs to regionals, regional pilots to majors)
The airline industry is wildly volatile and cyclical. "What was it doing before" is pretty useless info because the question isn't "what will it do next?", the question is "when will the next cycle happen?" and nobody can predict that.
No. NO. NOOOO you should not go into debt to rush your training along right now.
Some people have backup plans. Some people don't. Some people are smart, some people are dumb. Some people are lucky, some people are not.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Another thing to consider is if this slow period continues and people still take out massive loans at predatory APRs to get their licenses, at entry level pilot jobs, they’ll not be able to pay those loans back and still have money for the basic necessities of life. Which also means that if they cannot secure a pilot job quickly, they also will not be able to fly to stay current. And if a job does open up, but it’s been months or over a year since the last flight… they’re more than likely going to take a similar time pilot who is current over the one who’s not flown in a long time.
Necessary-Drive-3299@reddit
Ding ding ding we have a winner. Ask me how I know.
I have a job making 85K a year that is not aviation related and I still wouldn’t have been able to afford those predatory loans so I threatened to not pay them and now I have a 23 year loan at 2% interest and a $361 a month payment but I’m also still not flying and not current.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Yup. Imagine the impact $2k/mo would have and no job flying. That’s about a 300k mortgage for house you don’t get to live in, so you have to pay rent/mortgage and living costs. Unless you make a healthy salary, that leaves you very little money to fly. At a median salary? You’re living at home just to afford to live and still unlikely to have much free income to stay current.
And then there is the impact on your credit. Private lenders like SM not only are predatory with APR, but also structuring with microloans. A friend of mine who graduated from a well-known pilot mill financed thru SM and every week they “reloaded” his account. Coke to find out, they treated each “reload” as a microloan. $130k in debt, high interest, and his credit is absolutely demolished. He is instructing, but Part 61 with inconsistent scheduling.
rkba260@reddit
Wait a minute... you mean to tell me the pilot shortage that we all said wasn't real... wasn't real?
mfsp2025@reddit
Believe it or not, still seems like a captain shortage at my shop. I’ve been used every single day on reserve, almost to max duty if they can help it. Reserve list is zeroed out by 10am daily. 200% pay trips, everywhere seems like a weekly thing now.
Yet my FOs seem to never fly on reserve and struggle to even consolidate. Wild how much difference a few feet in the cockpit makes in a sense of staffing and supply.
Bot_Marvin@reddit
The pilot shortage absolute was real for a moment. There was a short period where several regionals weren’t even bothering with interviews, 1500hrs, send over an application and you’re hired at 90+/hr.
We had many people with <2000hrs TT going to a legacy.
Regionals were parking airplanes for lack of staffing, and threw massive bonuses at captains, begging them to stay.
aftcg@reddit
It was, but we did such a great job of promoting it, now we don't and never will again. 15 year regional FOs for the win!
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Almost 3 whole months huh.
What is VSL some influence? Ya it goes up and down, the thing is that it flight training takes so long that if you start when it's down maybe you'll be good when it is up.
THERE ARE DOZENS OF FUCKING THREADS ABOUT NOT TAKING OUT LOANS JESUS DOES ANYBODY SEARCH FOR ANYTHING BEFORE POSTING THE IDENTICAL QUESTION FOR THE 500TH FUCKING TIIME.
I had a back up plan, flew for the air guard when the airlines were down. If you get furloughed at any point in your career I guarantee you'll find one pretty fucking quick.
cdro99@reddit (OP)
lol all the CAPS made me giggle
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Its just insane to see person after person be like should I take out 200k in loans? Will I getz to fly a jet if I do? Like fuck man.
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
If you want it bad enough…really want to fly like I did, you just go for it. That said my student debt load was relatively small, and I still really could not pay it for a couple of years, (got married, had a kid!).
Luckily..we had several weather related incidents in the Pacific Northwest over a couple of years that kept kicking my loans into automatic forbearance, so I limped along until I got to the majors and paid them off,(the regionals paid shit when I flew at Horizon!).
It’s a high risk, high reward business!!
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
I just paid off my loans with my Lieutenant and Captain pay in the guard.
Zeewulfeh@reddit
VSL is actually run by the DPE Seth Lake.
And no, no one searches for that, and if they it doesn't give the answer they want to hear anyway so they're gonna post in hopes this time the answer comes
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
Finally the post I always wanted to post..lol
SSMDive@reddit
Crystal ball is hazy.
You could luck out like those COVID hiring boom people, or you could be totally screwed like those 9/11/2001 people.
The only thing you can do is try. Get your ratings WITHOUT going into debt because you can’t get out of debt if you can’t find a job.
TxAggieMike@reddit
No to taking on debt.
Please read what u/RaisetheDed has to say about Paying for Flight Training With Loans/Debt
dakk33@reddit
Just saw you are near FTW. You probably talk to my wife on frequency in and out of there hahaha, small world
TxAggieMike@reddit
Is she one of the CTW tower gang?
dakk33@reddit
She sure is!
TxAggieMike@reddit
FTW tower gang is a good crew. They take good care of us.
chonky348@reddit
where do you find stuff like this? how do you know people like u/RaisetheDed? is he just a frequent poster?
TxAggieMike@reddit
Ded and I became friends through this sub. We have the same outlook on many training topics and the desire to share quality information.
Zeewulfeh@reddit
I should probably be more active as an independent on here, but I've kind of gone to just a little bit of instructing and flying my own plane while I just work my day job and work on publishing my (fictional) stories.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
That's a better way to put it than I did... Lol
RaiseTheDed@reddit
We are both a bit of the reddit basement dwellers type lol.
The source of the post is people kept asking about loans every day and I wrote that (or a version) to post in the comments as a "meat mod." It has evolved to what you see now. I also made the ATP post for the same reason
cdro99@reddit (OP)
Actually that was a good read
usernametaken78523@reddit
For new hire CFIs, market is bad. Wayy to many CFIs were produced last year, as a matter of fact, the highest ever. The job is being advertised too much by pilot influencers. The pay, lifestyle, travel, etc.
For new hire regional pilots, it's picking up, but still competitive.
For majors and LCC, as well as legacies, hiring is healthy. Even regional FOs are getting hired by legacies and majors in record numbers.
mfsp2025@reddit
Me reading this with my 70 hours of TPIC not getting a call back from a major yet lol.
But you’re absolutely right. Guy in my upgrade class got a Delta CJO. Another buddy of mine interviews in a week. Seems like everyone at my regional is getting picked up.
That being said, huge oversupply of FOs and even CFIs. The line between “hiring movement” and “hiring stagnation” seems to be at the regional upgrade mark.
homeinthesky@reddit
Widget is hiring back at 2022/2023 levels. They barely hired last year, and the seniority list actually SHRANK last year because of it. Now they’re dealing with the repercussions of those decisions with a dramatically understaffed airline. Pilots are getting lines awarded at 90 hours of flying instead of the normal 70-75, and then being begged to fly the premium trips in between. There will be a slow down in hiring come the summer, and ramping back up come the fall.
Keep the apps in, and update regularly.
quackquack54321@reddit
If you haven’t started training yet and start tomorrow, you could be in an upswing once you’re qualified. Or a downswing.
tobethrown99@reddit
The market for fresh CFIs is pretty grim at the moment, as to be expected as the market corrects from the crazy hiring we saw a few years ago. There is a surplus of new CFIs as well but over the next half decade it’ll likely correct back to “average” conditions depending on macroeconomic trends. The outlook over the next 5-10 years isn’t horrible however the 1-3 year forecast isn’t awesome for wet CPL holders. The CFI stage has always been the great hump that separates the dedicated from the rest, this is true now more than ever. Don’t take on debt for flight training in ANY market… especially don’t take on debt for training in THIS market. If it’s truly a passion you’ll find a way it’ll just take longer than you’d hope
PG67AW@reddit
I have two interviews with regionals as a 1450hr CFI. I expect more once I’m over 1500 next month. The jobs will (usually) be there if you play your cards right.
My advice? No debt. Work while you train. Only quit your day job once you have a flying job secured.
sinigangster05@reddit
Massive influx of new CPLs is leading to a big bottleneck for openings
cptnpiccard@reddit
I got my CFI in Mid March. I start at a flight school in May. That's after applying to around 14 schools in my area, so it wasn't "easy", but it also wasn't hard. But if you're thinking you're gonna finish CPL and go fly cargo for someone, you're sorely mistaken.
VileInventor@reddit
You’re going to see more negative stories than positive ones because this is where people go to complain.
Hahahaa94@reddit
Yes, it is absolutely horrible for low-time pilots at the moment. Hundreds of apps for a single job opening. Plane deliveries, the economy, and now the surging fuel prices are all factors among other things. I would avoid taking loans out unless you have a solid plan to financially survive long-term.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I’ve been reading this subreddit for almost 3 months constantly. Is the hiring market as bad and redditors make it seem ?
I’ve heard about the ebb and flow of the industry given the VSL video that came out. Is the industry that saturated ?
Is it the plane deliveries a factor to the slowing down of hiring ?
How was hiring prior to the big Covid boom ?
Should I take out the loan to finish commercial + cfi+i
Do people have back up plans ?
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