Japan in Panic: You Get Paid 20,000 Yen to Use Tinder
Posted by BabylonianWeeb@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 208 comments
Posted by BabylonianWeeb@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 208 comments
0hran-@reddit
This is how youngster will prefer to go on many date than settle with someone. Making, people mostly men, more desperate or give up. They are really willing to do anything except improving the lives of the young generation.
-BigDickOriole-@reddit
Or address their systemic misogyny that it causing an increasingly wider gap between what men and women expect in a relationship. Women are slowly pushing back on the traditional conservative gender roles that are still expected of them, and men aren't adapting quickly enough to it. That's basically been Japans downfall for over 30 years now. They just straight up refuse to adapt to anything.
Big-Ad-8274@reddit
Love how its always westeners who bring this up lmao. Mysoginy is nowhere near the main cause of low birthrates. And before yall attack me no im not saying mysoginy is not an issue，its just so fustrating when you hear westerns especially white liberal westeners comment as if they know everything about east asian countries.
DeadThought32@reddit
So what is the main cause?
moderngamer327@reddit
Easy access to birth control, children becoming a net negative on income, women’s education and subsequently financial independence
DeadThought32@reddit
I appreciate your answer, but I wanna hear from the person I replies to. I'm very curious what their take is.
j_w_z@reddit
It's more that reddit attracts weird people with weird axes to grind. Normal, well-adjusted people don't spend all day online trying to convince others the root cause of everything is misogyny, when out in the real world things have never been better in terms of gender equality.
TheMetal0xide@reddit
Oh hell no. You don't get to cry "misogyny", lump all lonely men in with that all the while men being held to the same old gender roles that's been expected of them since forever. It's not that men don't want to adapt, there's just nothing to "adapt" to, as, despite all of this "female empowerment" men are still expected to be a protector, be a provider, somehow earn more than their female peers, all under a failing capitalist economy, while somehow maintaining a six-pack as well for good measure.
Demands foisted upon men have never been higher, all while getting less than our fathers and grandfathers did. Yet out of touch Redditors would still rather be like "Oh GeE! WhY aRe MeN GivIng Up? MusT Be MiSoGynY, ThEy NeEd To ChECK ThEiR oWn PrIveLeGE!"
WestcoastAlex@reddit
garbage comment
calhooner3@reddit
Do you at least have a rebuttal? Dude isn’t exactly wrong that men are still held to all the original standards while now also being held to other much different standards.
I don’t disagree that a lot of the shit women had to put up with back in the day, and even now is/was fucked up. But if women don’t want to take the classic female position in a relationship they can’t expect the opposite. (House maintenance, tire changes, etc)
manimal28@reddit
My rebuttal as a man is, it hasn’t been a problem for me and I live in the same exact world. So the problem clearly isn’t the world, it’s him.
azaza34@reddit
Failing to adapt to what?
manimal28@reddit
azaza34@reddit
Yes but what standards are changing?
Forderz@reddit
Back when women couldn't work/no-fault divorce was illegal, women were essentially forced to find a man to marry to survive.
You could be an abusive PoS and find a lady willing to put up with you. Thankfully, this is no longer the case, and women are financially independent from men.
This has led to shitty dudes complaining that they can't find dates.
TheMetal0xide@reddit
So complaining about gender roles = being a wife-beater? WOW.
manimal28@reddit
Why are you asking stupid questions like an imbecilic Socrates? Go back and read the thread and linked article. That has already been nswered.
azaza34@reddit
No I was just wondering what standards you had adapted to so I could learn some but I think I am starting to understand.
WestcoastAlex@reddit
this.
changes have been decades in the making, its not an overnight switchup that caught people off guard. feminism and equal rights and gender roles softening have been happenning our whole lives. any 25 year old guy looking to get married today didnt grow up in the 1950's
mrenglish22@reddit
Two words: Pedro Pascal
TheMetal0xide@reddit
LMAO. Too bad, so sad.
WestcoastAlex@reddit
another one, congratulations.
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
Oh, you poor oppressed manbaby. Somehow I dodged all those requirements and didn't have issues finding relationships, both casual and long-term, while being very fucking far away from what you described AND also being obese.
So stop vomiting incel/redpill bullshit and improve yourself on empathy and listening to others. Maybe that way you'll eventually be someone worth dating.
TheMetal0xide@reddit
I'm just saying that the pressure is still on for men to carry themselves a certain way and live up to certain expectations to be considered as having "value". Some men get lucky and manage to skirt around these expectations and still see some success, but a lot don't and end up hating themselves.
All I have ever known is bullying, snide remarks and rejection for not being masculine enough, I'm never good enough, no matter what I do and all of these comments calling me some stupid incel asshole or whatever only ends up proving my point. So, go ahead. 👍
manimal28@reddit
You might want to consider why you think those things are exclusive of women being treated equally because they aren’t.
BambooSound@reddit
Not OP but I share the same opinion because of the things I've been directly told by women I've dated - even the ones that earn more than me have expected me to pay for the majority of our food, activities, etc. - and the ones I've got far enough to discuss children with are the most strident about this stuff.
I genuinely do feel like the expectations on men are greater than they've ever been while support has moved in the other direction. The result is fewer people than ever wanting to be in serious relationships, often putting off the idea of kids until they're approaching 40.
NuQ@reddit
And just like women have been screaming at you all along, you still don't have anything interesting to say about you, only your grievance.
Seems like a skill issue.
jiraikeiwolfgirl@reddit
I just want to say, I don't need a sixpack in my man. So you can at least relax about that. Generally it's a matter of taste
LeFiery@reddit
Wow you definitely havent adapted with this dogwater mindset.
FinalVersus@reddit
To be fair, this also seems to be the case in the United States now with the "Male Loneliness Epedimic"
Women have made it very loud and clear what their issues are and guys just don't want to hear it.
manimal28@reddit
What are the issues? I ask because I thought the loneliness epidemic was about not having friends or social circles, even if married.
Logical_Lemming@reddit
Women want men who are stable, mature, emotionally available, and willing to share the burden of running a household.
Men largely want to smoke weed, play video games, and fuck.
dosedatwer@reddit
It's this sentiment expressed right here that is causing the male loneliness epidemic. It's become perfectly acceptable in society to basically say "men are shit, women are amazing, and everything wrong with the world is men's fault".
More than 50% of white women in 2024 voted for Trump. Women have had the vote for a lifetime now in most western democracies, they are just as responsible for who is in power as men do and therefore they are just as responsible for how things are.
Blaming men is exactly why a lot of men have given up and don't want to partake in society anymore, especially the poorer, younger ones that have no power to enact change and had no say in how things are but still receive a lot of the blame.
Da_reason_Macron_won@reddit
If you go by redditor opinion, the issue one is "they are alive". There is no issue two.
B0B_Spldbckwrds@reddit
I've had to cut off enough friends who got really comfortable saying some heinous things to become convinced that those phenomenon are connected.
GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit
Pretty much nothing will change until huge reforms are made to society. While the old generation still lives change will never happen but unfortunately modern Japanese men coming into power share the same thinking.
-BigDickOriole-@reddit
Yep, I don't think enough people realise just how serious gender inequality is in Japan. Women only make up 10% of political representation. That's literally lower than a bunch of oppressive middle eastern dictatorships. They get forced into lesser roles in the workplace and have very little protection from workplace harassment. More and more women are adopting western gender norms and men still expect women to just be submissive little housewives. Their whole society is beyond fucked and I'm tired of people gushing over Japan like it's some perfect utopia when it's really the opposite.
FullNefariousness232@reddit
Best countries for women 2025
Japan 15th
USA 20th
South Korea 56th
Gender Gap Index 2025
USA 42th
South Korea 101st
Japan 118th
[Gender Inequality Index
mysqlpimp@reddit
Thankyou for actually providing some data.
GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit
100% and it’s crazy how their solution is still “women need to have more babies”
PUfelix85@reddit
Looks at the PM.
Yep. Checks out.
GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit
She makes Margaret Thatcher look like Kamala Harris.
Sarctoth@reddit
The USA is in the same boat. Our government is run by the senior center.
GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit
Oh yeah. Shits fucked
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
Birth rates are declining in various cultures with different gender relations. Why aren’t Swedes having 7 kids each? Why do the Sahel countries have the highest birth rates?
stylelock@reddit
Are you saying women want to bring less to the relationship but men are expected to bring the same as before and they refuse to adapt?
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
No, no one is saying that.
stylelock@reddit
That’s your interpretation not mine
Usual-Ad-4986@reddit
Europeans arent sending their brightest over the internet nowadays
Nordics countries arent exactly able to maintain their TFR despite lack of misogyny
Levitz@reddit
This is a strange as hell comment because, if anything, natality is negatively correlated with equality within a population.
Not to mention the idea that women push for equality and that men are the resistance is just a fairy tell ideologues tell themselves.
Thanatosst@reddit
Japan: where it's been the year 2000 for 40 years
moderngamer327@reddit
Better living conditions trend inversely with fertility rates
0hran-@reddit
Better living condition mean: - Better women literacy. - Better job opportunities for women. - More productivity and less need for children for extra hand - Better pension and healthcare system and less need to have kids to care for you in sickness and old age. - Longer education and later early carriers thus postponing child making
Those are the main factor reducing fertility. All of those have already happened in japan. However, for those that do want to have a family but can't is due to other series of reasons. The material ability of the lower and middle class to have kids is limited in most of the developed world: - Increasingly demanding jobs - Longer working hour - Low wages - Increase in housing prices people therefore live in smaller houses. - Limited but expensive day care which is increasingly mandatory (grandparent or family unable to take care of children because they are too far away or old) - Increasing cost in term of time spend with kids. Older generation grew up free range roaming everywhere unsupervised it is not possible anymore. - Founding time and place to have relationship is harder today.
moderngamer327@reddit
Job culture and work hours in Japan have gotten better not worse over the decades. Work hours also have minimal correlation to fertility rates
As for wages/cost of living. They have been relatively the same for the past couple decades with them fluctuating up and down overtime. It’s not more difficult to live on the median salary now than it was 20 years ago and it is definitely better than say 40 or 50 years ago when the fertility rate was higher
EdHake@reddit
lol… exactly my conclusion. I fail to see how paying the cause of the problem is going to give any solutions...
sxnmc@reddit
there's many cases of government asking the people to do things beneficial to the state and the economy, without creating the foundation for them to be able to do so. it's a fundamental contradiction of neoliberalism, if not capitalism. and it always reminds me of this meme.
moderngamer327@reddit
It’s more to do with the fact nobody has found an ethical solution yet
possibilistic@reddit
The young generation has it fine. People have children under way worse circumstances. All throughout history in utter poverty.
The problem is twofold -
People have too many distractions and and don't have downtime to socialize and build relationships. The smartphone has replaced the traditional family algorithm.
Giving birth and staying home with kids suck. Women have careers and freedom and dating choice. Why settle?
sutree1@reddit
Yeah but that would make the profits go down.
perpetual_state@reddit
this is so off.. people aren't single because downloading apps is hard... they're single 'cause you can't actually afford to be with someone. cost of living is crazy, money's unstable, house prices are out of control... like, love's great and all, but it doesn't pay your bills
Turkino@reddit
It's the cost of kids and part of Japan's work culture that is the real problem here.
Not cost of housing, shit they will PAY you to move to a rural area.
Problem is, all the jobs are in the big cities where it DOES cost a fortune.
And japanese culture is NOT kind to women, especially mothers.
Your still expected to work late, and when you get home generally women are expected to do a lot of the household chores and child raising.
Would you want to sign up to work effectively 2 jobs but only getting paid for one, and your co workers in that one job are irate at you because you're having to leave to go get your kids or (gasp) actually go home before 8pm so they can be taken care of?
moderngamer327@reddit
It has nothing to do with either of those things. People used to have kids when they were significantly poorer than now. Japan’s work culture has also improved over the decades not gotten worse
AdGloomy5846@reddit
There’s no such household. If both parents are working that late, who’s going to cook dinner?
Typically, in Japan, the man works overtime while the woman has a daytime part-time job. That’s the average household.
Foreigners rely too much on imagination.
nintendodog1@reddit
Is that supposed to be better?
TechnoMagi@reddit
That's... Patently wrong.
Having kids is another thing, but living with your SO and splitting bills is decidedly cheaper than living alone.
Teedubthegreat@reddit
The process of finding someone is expensive though and choosing the wrong person, can be even more expensive
beetnemesis@reddit
...that doesn't make any sense. It is cheaper to be with someone else, than single.
Now, having kids, that's expensive
Half-Niggas-Be-Like@reddit
The issue is more about it is expensive to go out and meet people naturally.
Since Japan does not have the house party culture, their social interactions are nice often done on a night out.
With stagnant wages and increasing prices, this is happening less and less, especially for the younger and lesser paid generation.
moderngamer327@reddit
Japans median wages have been keeping pace with cost of living on average. Although it fluctuates up and down
manimal28@reddit
Can’t they meet on a train, or at the grocery store? Don’t they go to church? Walk their dogs? There are plenty of ways to meet that don’t cost extra money.
Suntripp@reddit
Yea, this person is not identifying the real cause. That’s for sure
beetnemesis@reddit
We must introduce Japan to the ancient art... of pre-gaming
JustAnotherFKNSheep@reddit
They have dirt cheap alcohol at some places. Thats not really the issue. How much energy do you have after 12h shift + ot possibly unpaid?
Plus you dont wanna bring your date to a cheap spot
wicked_genitals@reddit
I don't think anyone really has house parties anymore. Not in this economy.
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
House parties can be much cheaper than going out to party, though.
SkullTitsGaming@reddit
I am so confused by all the replies suggesting that you must be wrong because cohabitation is cheaper than living alone. Do people think that cohabitation is first date behavior? Is everyone just moving in with whoever swipes right?
manimal28@reddit
I had friend roommates before I was married, does that concept not exist in Japan?
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
Love this comment when they just confirmed they were in fact talking about moving in and kids and stuff lol
perpetual_state@reddit
Yep, that's what I meant! Like, dating's fine and all, but I'm talking about the bigger picture, moving in, marriage, kids, the whole family thing. That's where it all falls apart financially, not the meeting-someone part.
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
Moving in is cheaper though.
Kids is not the same as being with someone, so it is wrong to bring that up.
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
They said "you can't afford to be with someone" and mentioned housing prices, so makes perfect sense people thought about a long term relationship. It is what they implied.
Because what else could they be talking about? Simply dating? That's not that expensive lol
NearABE@reddit
Have you seen the cost of rent in Tokyo?
xcsnkzcpbn@reddit
I don't understand the cost of living argument, as if all the previous generations were filthy rich, as if the people below poverty line don't raise children.
duncandun@reddit
But combining income is a great way to overcome the financial burden?
NearABE@reddit
Have a harem of employed working girls move in. Saves remarkable amounts on rent.
officerblues@reddit
I think the issue is more lifestyle related. The world moves too fast and there's too much going on to be properly able to meet someone new and enjoy time with them, so you "optimize" by using an app to cut the bullshit (actually the good part). People start treating relationships as transactional, to the point these apps start showing market dynamics, then people wonder why everyone is single.
HzPips@reddit
And the app actively makes things worse. Their business model needs single people to work, they don’t want you to get into a long term relationship.
Another_Slut_Dragon@reddit
Nobody wants to say the I word.
Immigration.
There's one sure fire way to fix the human shortage problem.
Diaperedsnowy@reddit
Japan is already overpopulated.
Why do we think we need to try and outgrow a one time baby boom from 70 years ago?
It will pass soon and any attempt to outgrow it now will just create new bubbles in the future.
moderngamer327@reddit
It’s not about a having an overall lower population, it’s about a rapidly declining population
Diaperedsnowy@reddit
Currently the largest glut of the baby boom is aging out.
They still only have seen less than .75% decline
it isnt some plague level event where everybody is disappearing. All of these people are not working age currently anyways. They aren't going to create a workforce problem when they go.
Why should Japan keep itself so populated?
moderngamer327@reddit
Yeah that’s the problem. The population is rapidly aging.
When you have a rapid population decrease from fertility rates the amount of elderly people relative the working people rapidly increases because the amount of people getting older is faster than the amount of people having children. This by extension means the amount of people consuming resources is much larger than the amount of people producing resources.
It’s not a giant issue now buts its only going to be a bigger and bigger issue as time goes on
Diaperedsnowy@reddit
And if you tried to outgrow the baby boom you would just be creating a new bubble to be dealt with by future generations.
China has the same population bubble coming, are they also expected to import more people to stabilize their population?
moderngamer327@reddit
You don’t need to outgrow the boom you just need to smooth the decline so the population ratio doesn’t become too bad
They will have to or face severe economic depression
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
There's no human shortage problem. Why does there need to be a constant increase in population?
squashed_fly_biscuit@reddit
I think in japan there is an increasing shortage of working age people to look after the older people. Gently decreasing population all good but I think there's a bit of a age balance issue in Japan
Diaperedsnowy@reddit
But bringing in many thousands of new permanent residences to service a very aged and soon to age out demographic is just creating a new problem to solve one that is soon over.
Guardian_of_Perineum@reddit
What new problem? That only sounds like a solution.
Diaperedsnowy@reddit
These people are already out of the workforce. Why would people be needed today to replaced them when they were long since replaced.
And new residents aren't needed to care for these people and even if they were it would only be for a few years. Why would you bring in any permanent residents for a temporary job?
Why is it needed to keep the population so high on a overpopulated area?
Guardian_of_Perineum@reddit
Have you not followed the comment thread? The problem is that there is a rapidly growing shortage of workers in the workforce relative to elderly citizens. This isn't just an issue of "it will last a few years until the current old people die off." The demographic gap is actually getting worse with time at the rate it is going. You seem to be thinking that the probelm lies in the sheer amount of say current 76 year olds who we can expect them to die off at say age 80. But there are lots of 70 years olds who will be around for 10 years. There are lots of 60 year olds who will be around for 20. All while the working age population is decreasing relative to the amount of them. It is accelerating towards a demographic cliff of actually having more 65+ year olds than under 65 year olds.
Taken together we can project out that the amount of retirees relative to workers will actually be growing with time rather than getting better. So yes there needs to be some permanent immigration to bridge that gap. Not even to get the population to a stabilized point but just to reasonably slow the decline to a rate the country can absorb gradually.
Diaperedsnowy@reddit
The future isn't trending to needing a giant workforce.
And places with a glut of them are in a worse spot in the longer tern and will just end up facing an even worse wave of elderly populations in the end.
Better to just ride it out and let it stabilize rather than attempting to prop up an artificial bubble.
Guardian_of_Perineum@reddit
It wouldn't even be a "giant workforce." You aren't understanding that they need immigration just to prevent the current workforce from rapidly declining to quickly relative to the aging population. The workforce overall could still afford to be smaller than now even. But it needs to be larger than it is currently projected to shrink to.
For example say right now that the population of Japan was a 50/50 split of >65 and <65 year olds. Just for simplicity. Do you not see the problem if the population is prjected in 30years to be 70% >65 year olds? Now if they could import young permanent residents just to slow slow the widening of that gap down to 60% >65 year olds, then that would give the demographics more time to stabilize gradually without more retirees than the economy can support at a given time. Get it?
And I don't k ow why you are bringing up China and India. India is a net exporter of people, so they haven't even tried importing people. India's population is more or less stable anyways. I don't know where you are getting it from that they have a looming population bubble. They are only a little below replacement rates. We are taling a 1.9 in India versus like a 1.15 in Japan for births per woman. China does have aging problems similar to Japan, but it also is a net exporter of people. Look here: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/chn/china/net-migration
So China taking in more immigrants would be a solution for them as well.
RadioactivePandaBear@reddit
Blaming one generations population density for anothers isn't a valid argument.
Agent_Galahad@reddit
You're right. Developed nations don't need babies or immigrants, they can just take the healthiest of the 80+ year olds and put them back in the workforce!! :D
officerblues@reddit
Because that's how the economic system was set up? I agree, we should have been living in a world where your savings would pay for your late living, but someone realized you could count on there being more young people when you grew old, and therefore could count on their extra burden carrying you over, and the extra burden on whatever came next carrying them over.
This is when that system breaks down, so you import young workers to keep the system going a little while longer.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
That's how Capitalism is setup because Capitalism requires infinite growth and expansion, and without that, it falters and dies.
Iyellkhan@reddit
capitalism requires ongoing activity, not infinite growth. Japan is actually an example of a stagnant capitalist economy with little investment growth to be found and things work just fine. but their economic model has not faltered and died. if anything, it stabilized.
the only people who insist capitalism requires infinite growth are people who mostly if not only make their money in the markets and not with labor.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Sure, things work so fine everyone works 20 hour days, lives in tiny apartments and don't even fuck.
The people with LOTS of money are the ones who control these markets and countries, and they make their money from stocks going up. No one will give money to companies if they aren't going to make MORE money than they did when they gave them money. It requires infinite growth.
Let me know how a country does when their economy is going down for 20 years or is stagnant.
There's a reason Japan is miserable and are now illegally remilitarizing so they can attack China with the US.
Guardian_of_Perineum@reddit
Uh I was with you until the conspiracy theory that they intend to attack China. Sure Japan is militarizing but why in God's name would their plan be to attack a nuclear-armed superpower? Especially for such a population dense nation...
No, this is more of a defensive/deterrent play for Japan given the dangerous regional powers around them, and the US being increasingly unreliable due to currently being led by a retarded oompa loompa.
moderngamer327@reddit
It’s not just this system. Any system will suffer from a rapid decline in fertility rates
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Because Japan (and most of the world) lives under a system that requires infinite growth
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Correct
Maneisthebeat@reddit
Maybe it's because all the wealth is flowing towards the wealthy and that wealth is able to be taxed at a fraction of the effectiveness of recouping that income from middle class and lower citizens.
That is why 'constant growth' is needed just to stay 'stable'. Because rich people are really, really expensive to a society and give little back relative to their wealth.
moderngamer327@reddit
Incorrect
moderngamer327@reddit
It does not require infinite growth
austin_8@reddit
Why does that matter? The problem of not having enough people to support those in need of support, is a problem that exists across all systems.
manimal28@reddit
You just answered your own question.
ChillAhriman@reddit
Decreasing population is okay, but not at any rates. If your population falls so fast that it becomes impossibly burdensome for working people to take care of pensioneers, it is falling too fast.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Wealth isn't decreasing, though, only population. So why aren't the retired, old and sick being taken care of with some of that wealth?
austin_8@reddit
Because wealth can only purchase goods and services that exist
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Those goods and services do exist, in fact, there are millions of unemployed who would love to make more goods and provide more services in exchange for some of that wealth.
manimal28@reddit
They exist now, not when the population declines as projected.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Good thing automation has made massive progress! Perhaps we should invest in that some more with all of that wealth.
manimal28@reddit
Sure, let’s just hope the AI doean’t hallucinate our ass for a bed pan and rip our pelvis from our aged torso.
austin_8@reddit
Obviously today they exist, the point is if trends continue there won’t be enough people to support those who need it no matter the pay, this is happening globally, it’s not a question of willingness to pay
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
There are more than enough people to fulfill critical roles in society, especially with automation becoming more and more common. If we didn't have a system that didn't allow you to live without working then workers also wouldn't be opposed to it.
manimal28@reddit
If I drop you on a desert island alone with a suitcase of a million dollars, who are you hiring to make you a boat? Money won’t solve problems if there is nobody to buy services from.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Tell that to the people who do everything in their power to concentrate more and more of that wealth in their hands and leave everyone else with barely enough to live.
manimal28@reddit
Ok.
ChillAhriman@reddit
Thinking about the economy in monetary terms only is brainrot. It doesn't matter what social organization or financiation system you come up with: if you don't have working hands, the richest grandpa in the world won't have anyone who can change his diapers. Think less about money and more about resources, with labour being a resource.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Everything you said has nothing that makes what I said wrong.
manimal28@reddit
There is in fact going to be a human shortage problem in those countries with a declining birth rate and lack of immigration. Eventually the number of elderly needing care will outnumber those available to care, the number using social services will out number those paying to support social services.
UnlikelyPerogi@reddit
Theres going to be. There are like four countries in the entire world that have a birthrate above the replacement rate: three countries in sub saharan africa, and israel. Even india and china are below the replacement rate, though not as bad as the vast majority of other countries in the world which are way below the replacement rate.
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
No one said increase bud. The problem is the decrease and the population makeup becoming more and more elderly
It is a very serious issue in Japan (and other places). I would read up on it
HockeyHocki@reddit
Depending on country on average you need around 4 working people to support 1 pensioner, this is based on tax on workers income
Now by the time those 4 people get to retirement 2 of them have died but 2 live well into retirement, you now need 8 working people to support those 2 pensionsers
And on it goes, the longer people live the more this problem is exacerbated
Iyellkhan@reddit
there actually is if you want to maintain the modern global economic system, not to mention most national defense postures by the more powerful militaries of the world.
it would be less of an issue if the replacement rate globally wasnt trending down as fast as it already has (much of the decline got baked in years ago, so its not avoidable now). but with the rapid change, most nation's systems for funding retirement / elderly citizens expenses were all dependent on there always being more young people than old people. that model is going defunct just about everywhere.
but growing urbanization crossed with shifting global economics has largely fixed the overpopulation problem that was predicted decades ago.
this is also why some of the billionaires are going all in on robots, they see an opportunity for in home assistance and labor to support the elderly and fill in gaps in the labor market as the population declines. now who they are expecting to pay for those robots, outside a total collapse of modern economic models back into serfdom, is unclear.
decimeci@reddit
The problem is not work force, issue is making a lot of your own kind. Immigration from the point of view of non westerners would be like blowing yourself up. It's like giving away your land for free to invaders
Another_Slut_Dragon@reddit
I live in one of the most multicultural cities in the world and it is amazing. Especially the food.
Khamaz@reddit
Immigration isn't actually a long-term solution, it can only contribute to adress the human shortage on the short and medium-term.
Once immigrants settle in and integrate to the country, they will eventually be hit by the same systemic issues that makes the birthrate low for other citizens, and they won't contribute to raising it.
Immigration is only efficient if paired with other policies to raise the birthrate itself.
Another_Slut_Dragon@reddit
Canada here. Immigrants statistically start more businesses and buy more homes than non immigrants here. By a slight margin and of course there are averages.
But if you have a shrinking population with few young people it is a must. If you don't, the system will be unable to care for the larger elderly population. You can't make the population average top heavy or things topple over.
austin_8@reddit
Also in the long term, the world as a whole is moving in the same direction, so immigration or no if the current trends continue the problem will remain.
Level_Hour6480@reddit
Only if the immigration is temporary.
Aionalys@reddit
And cause a whole host of problems along with it.
GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit
Depends on the type of immigrant.
Aionalys@reddit
I don't necessarily agree. The traditional Japanese aren't very well known for tolerating immigrants. It's my understanding that they feel pride in their ability to retain their culture as a result of rejecting foreign influence. I don't think the type will matter much. Maybe in varying treatment sure, but either way I suspect the populace will be fairly divided.
manimal28@reddit
And they will retain their culture right into its extinction through lack of births.
TheNoisiest@reddit
This corny mf has genres of immigrants lmaoooo
Are you gonna be more specific or just use the dog whistle?
Carvemynameinstone@reddit
I know what you mean, and it very well may be so.
But! There is a way to target immigration, make it easier for people that can do the jobs you need them to do to get their immigration in order.
Need more doctors? Give them tax breaks for x amount of years, or another incentive. Need more janitors, same thing.
You can have your cake and eat it too with immigration, and it doesn't have to be racist.
GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit
-me when i act clueless on the internet to try and prove a point
Throwawaymaybeokay@reddit
Pretty much came to say that.
They only want pure, old stock Japanese to be procreating and they will rig the system to achieve that or nothing at all.
Master-Weight-2676@reddit
Do you think anyone wants to replicate what has happened to Canada in recent years with its open door policy to immigration?
DisappointedSpectre@reddit
Which is their right to self determination, as a society, to decide is what they want.
And if that ends up with a decline of their society, or down to an effective self-extinction of their culture they'll bear the consequences of their choices.
LeFiery@reddit
Japan hates immigration so doubtful tbh
Gravuerc@reddit
Every country needs immigration! People are insane for keeping immigrants out, it’s the easiest way to fix a society declining due to birth rate.
FEED_ME_YOUR_EYES@reddit
So what happens when we reach a point where populations are declining in every country?
Declining birth rates are almost directly linked to higher development and quality of life. Poor countries have higher birth rates. So is the plan to just make sure some countries remain poor, to supply the richer countries with an endless stream of migrants?
Kaymish_@reddit
Immigration is one of the underlying issues. More immigration will just make the problem worse. Countries import floods of workers to keep wages suppressed and demand for housing high. People aren't having children because their lives are too shit, making their lives even more shit isn't going to help things. If unemployment wasn't through the roof immigrants would be a boon, but while there is such a bad economic crisis they just hurt the country.
marimalgam@reddit
They're already capping foreign workers in the food service sector for this reason
HockeyHocki@reddit
Yeah this is what Spain have opted for, is just kicking the can down the road though, a bandaid on a deep festering wound
SnowPrincess13@reddit
Why is the image of misaki and usui from kaichou wa maid sama? 😂 Are there no real life couples left to photograph? No stock photos or models? Such a weird choice
avroLancasterBPR1@reddit
And why of all series did they pick the one where the guy stalks and blackmails his way into a relationship
DonFibonacci@reddit
Duh. It's known your life turns into Anime if you live in Japan.
Past_Paint_225@reddit
No real couples left to photograph😂😂
sad_and_stupid@reddit
Oh my god I haven't thought about Kaichou wa maid sama in like ten years what a throwback to middle school 😭
Assassiiinuss@reddit
I think that's the problem
hug_me_im_scared_@reddit
I was so confused what this article had to do with r/anime before I noticed where I was lol
kaptainkooleio@reddit
Last I saw, it was like $20k (give or take) per year to raise. That 20,000 yen ($125) ain’t worth it in this economy, regardless of if you’re male or female. That doesn’t even factor in how depressed you’re gonna get if you’re average or ugly looking (like myself). I’ve had a tinder for 5 years, never had a match, though I’ve had a a lot more success on other apps like bumble and hinge.
KrisPBaykon@reddit
lol no it doesn’t cost $20,000 a year to raise a kid unless you put a dollar amount on each hour you’re raising the child. If this was the case you wouldn’t see birth rates go up as yearly income go down.
HerrThumb@reddit
Childcare is more expensive than you might think. Many couples both work regular jobs, so somebody has to watch the kid for them before they are old enough for school.
LoudestHoward@reddit
I thought Japan had free childcare?
Ruby2312@reddit
Depend on where you live and what you want. Cause free childcare there is more like “free” childcare
KrisPBaykon@reddit
Yea normally you have 1 parent stay at home and do that because then getting a job and then paying for childcare out of that job will get you a few hundred dollars net a month and then you lose 8+ hours a day with your child. All of these sound like terribly poor planning, which makes sense if you’re spending $20,000 a year on something that just eats and shits and needs clothes.
ItsHX@reddit
the flair makes so much sense
KrisPBaykon@reddit
The median HOUSEHOLD income for Mississippi in 2019 was $44,000. Are you telling me that those people were spending 50% of their total income on 1/3 (or less) of the entire household? Seems like that 20k a year figure and 2k a month for one kid in daycare is an outlier in maybe some place like San Francisco where the median household income is almost $150,000.
I’m sure you have kids though and shed some light on the subject?
ItsHX@reddit
yea I actually do and the figures are correct, also not everyone lives in the fuckin US of Ass and even then the cost is still about right
Revlar@reddit
Thank you for serving as the example of a neglected child whose needs were not met, who did not develop past that stage
No_Cow9375@reddit
So then it does cost 20,000 a year? Because you are foregoing earning wages.
fantasy-capsule@reddit
It costs at least 10k-20k a year if you want to raise your kids comfortably with decent resources and opportunities for development. Otherwise, you'd be putting them at a disadvantage that lowers their chances to elevate themselves and they might not do better than you're doing. They might do worse actually given how much more complex, competitive, and expensive society has become.
OmilKncera@reddit
Daycare alone is $1700 a month for 1 kid where I'm at.
It's a good thing we never feed or cloth him, or else we'd be in real trouble
KrisPBaykon@reddit
Awesome. Maybe trying having 1 parent stay home during the day (you know, to actually raise the kid and not pass it off to someone else) and having 1 work at night? It’s a you problem that you’re spending $1700 a month for someone to raise your child for you.
whatnameblahblah@reddit
Wait till you leave school and decide to look at the actuall average to raise a kid kek
OmilKncera@reddit
That's a possibility. But then I'd be losing roughly 3-5k a month in household income with the reduced salary my wife or I would have to take.
It's hard to build a career with night work, and it would be very difficult to take 5 years off work.
Guess my overall point is, although your points make this seem simple, it's usually not, and it's expensive because of it.
officerblues@reddit
Father of two, here, and I think the number seems passable. I'm not American, so I get most things for free (school, Healthcare, even after-school care from the city), and it still costs a good 10k /year extra from all yhe other stuff I have to do. I'm not even counting optionals, like vacations that I wouldn't take if not for them. 20k seems acceptable if you factor in all the stuff I get for "free" that you wouldn't get somewhere else.
KrisPBaykon@reddit
$10,000 is much much closer. These people take their fucking kids to a $2,000 a month daycare on a $35,000 salary a year and wonder why it’s so expensive.
WestcoastAlex@reddit
this. kids grow up just fine with homemade toys and no IPhones. probably better actually.
Revlar@reddit
Why do you have a multinational flair and an american username?
WestcoastAlex@reddit
how many passports do you have?
Revlar@reddit
1 nowadays, but that doesn't mean much. I wouldn't use this flair if I identified with one country over another
No-Pack-5928@reddit
I've had a personal conspiracy theory brewing for a few years..
If you pay any attention at all to Hentai, I think the increase in Breeding Kink stuff has been obvious. My theory is that studios are literally, quietly, getting government grants for including material that promotes having babies.
Nahcep@reddit
Rare based government subsidy
floralbutttrumpet@reddit
It's not just hentai. There's been a truckload of regular anime and manga that feature adorable little buggers™, both in slice of life and adventure titles.
Not that it does shit, people just don't decide to go out and breed new citizens into place based on some big-eyed cutesy anime children when they live off cup noodles and spite.
Level_Hour6480@reddit
Spy X Family is a notable example.
hi-fen-n-num@reddit
Also explains the direction of Devil is a Part-timer.
floralbutttrumpet@reddit
Spy x Family, Amaama to Inazuma, Gakuen Babysitters, Barakamon, Alma-chan, Buddy Daddies, Kumichou Musume, Maou no Musume, Uchi no Ko no Tame naraba, Otonari ni Ginga, Tadaima Okaeri... and that's off the top of my head, I'm 100% sure there's more.
ChillAhriman@reddit
We're studying sociology by looking up hentai statistics now?
Exothunder@reddit
Its not a conspiracy, its real, Shinzo Abe was discovered years ago that he paid for hentai with breeding kink.
RansomXenom@reddit
Do you have a source for that?
LaylaLost@reddit
And not it’s starting in their cinema too. Anyone see Exit 8 and lowkey weirded out by its not so subtle messaging about you know what?
thinkB4WeSpeak@reddit
They don't understand that these apps don't want you to leave the app and make it so you don't match people. If they want to do anything useful then send some lawsuits to the companies for false advertisement or wasting people's money.
isnortmiloforsex@reddit
The problem is not people not dating. Many are. Its that couples dont have kids. Many remain childless due to financial strains and long hours at work. Its a problem everywhere. People date each other, even for long term but choose not to have kids.
moderngamer327@reddit
People used to raise kids while being significantly poorer. Money isn’t the issue
Bkm321@reddit
People still do and that's a problem. They already don't have enough money for themselves and they want to raise kid. Not Even 2-3 whole football team. That's stupid
vsGoliath96@reddit
Hmm, take a step back, evaluate our culture and economy, and have some hard conversations about how this system abuses and demoralizes young people and discourages them from long-term relationships?
No, pay them to use dating apps. Brilliant.
moderngamer327@reddit
Better economies and living standards correlate with lower not higher fertility rates
PanzerZug@reddit
It’s ok. Japans population is way too high as it is. They will downsize and it may not be good for the economy, but it will regulate itself. Countries can’t grow forever. There is an equilibrium and corporation simply cannot fathom the fact that line not go up forever.
moderngamer327@reddit
It’s not about growing forever it’s about preventing a massively inverted population pyramid
Damaniel2@reddit
The article makes the most important point here - the issue isn't social, it's societal. A culture where you're expected to work long hours until you die, a xenophobic/anti-immigrant mindset, and massive gender-based disparity when it comes to employment (and especially pregnancy + raising children) means that no amount of band aids like this will ever help.
moderngamer327@reddit
Finland which has the lowest working hours in the world has only a slightly higher fertility rate than Japan. Work culture is not the issue
Iyellkhan@reddit
this is very much too little too late. the real solution to Japan's population situation is going to be immigration and a lot of it, but culturally that clearly isnt acceptable.