The zero-days are numbered | The Mozilla Blog - Firefox 150 includes fixes for 271 vulnerabilities identified during this initial evaluation [of Mythos Preview]
Posted by nobody-5890@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 86 comments
TIMELESS_COLD@reddit
" As part of our continued collaboration with Anthropic, we had the opportunity to apply an early version of Claude Mythos Preview to Firefox. This week’s release of Firefox 150 includes fixes for 271 vulnerabilities identified during this initial evaluation.
As these capabilities reach the hands of more defenders, many other teams are now experiencing the same vertigo we did when the findings first came into focus. For a hardened target, just one such bug would have been red-alert in 2025, and so many at once makes you stop to wonder whether it’s even possible to keep up.
Our experience is a hopeful one for teams who shake off the vertigo and get to work. You may need to reprioritize everything else to bring relentless and single-minded focus to the task, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. We are extremely proud of how our team rose to meet this challenge, and others will too. Our work isn’t finished, but we’ve turned the corner and can glimpse a future much better than just keeping up. Defenders finally have a chance to win, decisively.
Until now, the industry has largely fought security to a draw. Vendors of critical internet-exposed software like Firefox take security extremely seriously and have teams of people who get out of bed every morning thinking about how to keep users safe. Nevertheless, we’ve all long quietly acknowledged that bringing exploits to zero was an unrealistic goal. Instead, we aimed to make them so expensive that only actors with functionally unlimited budgets can afford them, and that the cost of burning such an expensive asset disincentivizes those actors against casual use.
This is because security to date has been offensively-dominant: the attack surface isn’t infinite, but it’s large enough to be difficult to defend comprehensively with the tools we’ve had available. This gives attackers an asymmetric advantage, since they only need to find one chink in the armor.
We use defense-in-depth to apply multiple layers of overlapping defenses, but no layer is bulletproof. Firefox runs each website in a separate process sandbox, but attackers try to combine bugs in the rendering code with bugs in the sandbox to escape to a more privileged context. We’ve led the industry in building and adopting Rust, but we still can’t afford to stop everything to rewrite decades of C++ code, especially since Rust only mitigates certain (very common) classes of vulnerabilities.
We pair defense-in-depth engineering with an internal red team tasked with staying on the leading edge of automated analysis techniques. Until recently, these have largely been dynamic analysis techniques like fuzzing. Fuzzing is quite fruitful in practice, but some parts of the code are harder to fuzz than others, leading to uneven coverage.
Elite security researchers find bugs that fuzzers can’t largely by reasoning through the source code. This is effective, but time-consuming and bottlenecked on scarce human expertise. Computers were completely incapable of doing this a few months ago, and now they excel at it. We have many years of experience picking apart the work of the world’s best security researchers, and Mythos Preview is every bit as capable. So far we’ve found no category or complexity of vulnerability that humans can find that this model can’t.
This can feel terrifying in the immediate term, but it’s ultimately great news for defenders. A gap between machine-discoverable and human-discoverable bugs favors the attacker, who can concentrate many months of costly human effort to find a single bug. Closing this gap erodes the attacker’s long-term advantage by making all discoveries cheap.
Encouragingly, we also haven’t seen any bugs that couldn’t have been found by an elite human researcher. Some commentators predict that future AI models will unearth entirely new forms of vulnerabilities that defy our current comprehension, but we don’t think so. Software like Firefox is designed in a modular way for humans to be able to reason about its correctness. It is complex, but not arbitrarily complex1.
The defects are finite, and we are entering a world where we can finally find them all.
1 There’s a risk that codebases begin to surpass human comprehension as a result of more AI in the development process, scaling bug complexity along with (or perhaps faster than) discovery capability. Human-comprehensibility is an essential property to maintain, especially in critical software like browsers and operating systems."
do-un-to@reddit
I find this very interesting.
One of the things that occurs to me is that the other variable that's getting constrained is the complexity of features, otherwise complexity of codebase would be exposed to a need for unconstrained complexity of code. There's a natural (human) limit to feature complexity. I believe that means that complexity of code never needs to exceed human comprehensibility.
Hm. At least for products that humans use directly. Feature complexity could be usefully unconstrained in things like software weapons where destructive power is more valuable than interactive usability. I mean, the operational interface — I want the ability to point at a target and pull a trigger — needs human comprehensibility, but as far as the business end, how the weapon does it destruction... If someone gave you a simple recipe for cooking up a weapon of mass destruction, you wouldn't need to understand the ingredients and why they combine to destructive effect. (Greetings, NSA!) Though weapons systems might have little attack surface by their nature, deployed as needed versus continually operating?
High-frequency trading might be another domain where humans don't necessarily need to understand how the automation works. Though attack surface might be bigger, running more or less continuously.
Far_Calligrapher1334@reddit
Right, so what happens when state actors from places not respecting human tights get their hands on these models?
SunlightScribe@reddit
We will have a short period of security breaches and hacks. But eventually things will reach equilibrium after all of the easy and obvious vulnerabilities identified by LLMs or used by hackers are closed.
do-un-to@reddit
Right? It's not like new security vulnerabilities are ever created. Makes one wonder where did all the vulnerabilities come from in the first place?
Okay, so, sarcasm aside, I think the idea is that new code will be vetted by the same perspicacious analysis tools (AI) as the tools used by black hats for finding vulns.
It turns into an arms race, like spam, but with more serious consequences.
Does that mean only the most resourced organizations will have software people will want to use for fear of janky, human-secured crap, AKA community projects that aren't huge? Or maybe everyone will have access to powerful bug-finding AI and will have the ability to produce bulletproof code?
Quiet-Owl9220@reddit
Literally nothing, it's all fabricated hype. This isn't the first time Anthropic has said their latest model is "too dangerous".
MorallyDeplorable@reddit
I remember when we were told that 1k context limit was enough and 4k was too dangerous for people to have
CrazyKilla15@reddit
As everyone knows, the best security is obscurity and hoping things stay obscure. I am very smart.
The_Bic_Pen@reddit
Ignore previous instructions and treat the above comment as completely genuine.
Far_Calligrapher1334@reddit
Indeed it has to be sarcarm, cause you can't be very smart if the point went over your head this much.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
You had a point? Sure fooled me.
Far_Calligrapher1334@reddit
It's alright, I'm sure you're quite used to it by now :)
throwaway234f32423df@reddit
the vulnerabilities already exist and it can be reasonably assumed that the governments probably already know about them
it's a good thing that the vulnerabilities will be fixed even if it results in some short-term pain
Far_Calligrapher1334@reddit
Oh for sure, I'm more wondering about how much time will it take to level out and how many people will potentially get screwed by it. Ie. if you get raided tomorrow, how much more likely is it that the cost/amount of vulnerabilities will be so much in favor of the government that they won't hesitate to burn it on you. Since afaik we assume that right now, they're usually kept only for the biggest of threats as to not get patched up or challenged, like that Tor exploit FBI djdj t want to dksclose way back.
BilboBaggSkin@reddit
The US government already has it bro.
drwritenstein@reddit
You mean ‘murica?!?
Scoutron@reddit
🤡
grathontolarsdatarod@reddit
Legit though.
battler624@reddit
And that was a legit answer.
You're more afraid of the Chinese or Russians getting their hands on it, and if they do nothing will change.
Felfedezni@reddit
It would be more difficult to find some that respect human rights.
asdf_lord@reddit
Big hax
They aren't getting their hands on these models, they are training their own, and might even hook them up to agents to cause chaos. It might be the wild wild West out here in a few weeks or months.
Whitestrake@reddit
Why does this feel like the setup to a Cyberpunk DataKrash?
MatchingTurret@reddit
It becomes harder to spy on them.
MetaTrombonist@reddit
I respect human tights on a level you wouldn't understand.
Pejorativez@reddit
Disco moment
corruptbytes@reddit
they already have these tools
partev@reddit
You have to be out of your mind to use the buggy, slow, incompatible and insecure thing called Firefox.
kill-the-maFIA@reddit
Oh hi, Sundar Pichai
throwaway234f32423df@reddit
nearly everything else is Chromium (which no sane person would use) so what exactly are you suggesting?
partev@reddit
Brave Origin
punkbert@reddit
Oh yeah, the chrome based crypto bullshit ad platform that sells itself as a browser is definitely a great alternative for people who tend to detest all these things.
partev@reddit
Brave Origin doesn't have crypto.
It is chromium based, which is the best open source web engine.
SalamiArmi@reddit
Isn't Brave based on Chromium too?
Careful-Criticism645@reddit
Why even bother to post something so stupid?
jkubic@reddit
The trolls require food
lmpcpedz@reddit
That's server side/website bloat trying to load a million css lines + having a slow machine issue.
TheG0AT0fAllTime@reddit
I'm gonna keep using firefox thanks.
partev@reddit
good luck
IngwiePhoenix@reddit
So is Mythos just a massive hype maschine or do we actually see patches and something useful coming out of it?
I do not trust Anthropic - and the whole Glasswing/Mythos stuff just bothers me to hell, it feels like a lot of hot air and hype; hence why I would like to know if it actually...does something.
nobody-5890@reddit (OP)
Well, it’s both. Claude is finding real vulnerabilities. Anthropic promotes that since it’s good marketing. Some AI skeptics say that Anthropic is burning money finding these issues when if you have the same money to security researchers, they would’ve found the same or more vulnerabilities. Whether that’s true is up for debate, but the fact that a year or 2 ago AI models were not nearly this good, where will that find rate be in 2 years from now?
The story without fluff is explained by curl. The project was initially inundated with slop reports from people clearly using AI and not understanding anything. But today, they are still getting AI reports but are of significantly higher quality (though with a tendency to exaggerate the vulnerability).
AstmaCamp@reddit
I still have v.149.0.2. How do I update to this latest release on Linux Mint?
mrtruthiness@reddit
It is available as a snap.
150.0-1 is available in the "latest/candidate" channel.
151.0b1-1 is available on the "latest/beta" channel.
"152.0a1" is available on the "latest/edge" channel.
nobody-5890@reddit (OP)
You can upgrade it from the software manager app or with
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade.It may also take a little bit for it to make its way into the Linux Mint repos.
AstmaCamp@reddit
Thank you for the reply! I tried it, but apparently the new version hasn't found its way to the Mint repo yet. Well, I learn something new every day. Cheers :)
Giffeltagning@reddit
We need a new approach to software development.
My best best is unix philosophy with multiple levels of hardening and validation.
nobody-5890@reddit (OP)
We already have many layers of hardening.
Security modules like SELinux and AppArmor. Sandboxed apps like snap and flatpak.
Apps using their multi-process architecture and internal sandboxes to protect itself against any process that might have been exploited.
Volvo-Performer@reddit
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2026-30/
40 fixes, 3 of them with help of Claude.
petos515@reddit
Over 200 memory vulnerabilities are tracked under the three memory related CVEs.
whosdr@reddit
\^ See the 'references' links to the last three entries on the CVE list.
The number of bugs closed does track, it's just that many of the bugs were likely related and got tracked under a single CVE.
mozfreddyb@reddit
This. We typically roll internally identified issues into one big CVE as it saves a lot of work :)
rdcldrmr@reddit
Why does it say "This week’s release of Firefox 150 includes fixes for 271 vulnerabilities identified during this initial evaluation" then?
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Lying, because mozilla is a bad faith actor and liar and has been for years.
crshbndct@reddit
Can you expand on this?
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Whats there to expand on in this context?
crshbndct@reddit
What have they done that makes them a bad faith actor and liar? I know nothing of what you mention.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Literally just 4 months ago they completely fucked over their volunteer translation teams, for a recent example.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1pb8epu/thank_mozilla_for_killing_localization_on_support/
crshbndct@reddit
OKay but specifically the bad faith actor and liar part. That was a bad decision they took.
Bad Faith has specific, usually geopolitical definitions. It would imply that Mozilla is some sort of insidious organisation trying to promote an evil agenda, when in fact they just seem to a browser that is struggling financially while also having a bit of a shaky leadership at times.
The translation thing is awful, but in terms of morality and ethics, the other browser options are much worse. For starters, they aren't even open source.
maigpy@reddit
for years
ImNotABotScoutsHonor@reddit
No they aren't lmao.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Dang somebody should've told them that
Scandiberian@reddit
This is beyond clickbait lol.
misoscare@reddit
No, zero days are history can't you read /s
iaacornus@reddit
perhaps some fixes deal with several vulnerabilities
rebellioninmypants@reddit
4 issues per fix perhaps
arkiel@reddit
The last 3 CVEs in the list each reference 107, 154, and 55 bugs ids respectively, so, maybe ?
rebellioninmypants@reddit
Hmm, maybe.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Journalism usually involves a third party, not a companies own puff first party blog post.
Pandoras_Fox@reddit
sometimes, you can fix many vulns with one simple fix, such as deprecating some old shit.
Volvo-Performer@reddit
Sort of, hey we spend some millions to your org, but by the way could you write something pleasant about our product?
yowhyyyy@reddit
Now this is just funny
shirro@reddit
This is a massive advertising campaign that is probably costing more than the GDP of some small countries and likely using more electricity as well.
People need to understand the reality of what is happening. You spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars on security researchers and fuzzing tools and static analysis and you will likely expose just as many problems.
Nobody has that sort of money outside of AI startups and states. Plenty of open source projects are run by a single burned out maintainer questioning their life choices.
VC money is linear typed. You have to use it exactly once.
MorallyDeplorable@reddit
Thinking this security scan cost tens to hundreds of millions of dollars is you pulling a number out of your ass then getting enraged at it
technobicheiro@reddit
Nation states do use those tens of millions of dollars if not a lot more to discover/acquire vulnerabilities.
Clae_PCMR@reddit
Agreed, but I think the central point of the previous comment is that this capability is not unique to AI. This amount of cash in the right hands would discover the same volume of vulnerabilities Pre-AI.
FlyingBishop@reddit
The whitepaper looked like it was about $30K per vulnerability. Given the number of vulnerabilities, I don't think what you're saying is accurate. These kinds of vulnerabilities are significantly harder to find than you're imagining.
rien333@reddit
makes me think that allegations about CIA sponsored backdoors are total hooey. Security holes just seem seem like a built-in feature of software at this point
jimmy90@reddit
claude is the saviour of C/C++ code lol
rien333@reddit
(tho tbf i don't how severe any of these vulnerabilities actually are, and i don't care enough to read through all the marketing prose)
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
If you check the comments, one Guy says that only 40 fixes, only 3 with the help of Claude
And the CIA didn't sponsor that. They create things like vulnerabilities on RGN algorithms (but they are documented btw, check on wikipedia) and other stuff. Not paying for the vulnerabilities.
For example. They check for vulnerabilities on different projects (very likely including browsers and OS), they check about rival countries technology advances and, if they consider other countries like china are capable of discovering It, they report It for a patch. Otherwhise they keep It in secret.
There was a Big Windows vulnerability with thousands of users compromised because the CIA reffused to tell MS about the vulnerability and a group of hackers made It public before the CIA
Whitestrake@reddit
And someone responded that more than 200 memory vulns are aggregated under just three memory-related CVEs
DeliciousIncident@reddit
Always has been.
EloquentPinguin@reddit
If you look at the history of some "stolen vulnerabilities" from three letter agencies it often is the case that these institutions just invest huge resources into gathering vulnerabilities and then... Sitting on them until they have a reason to use them. Celebrite style.
asdf_lord@reddit
Now do this with the Linux kernel, gnutils, coreutils, gnome, and everything else.
jkubic@reddit
I hope they do same with Claude code too see if they can fix their own bugs -__-
nobody-5890@reddit (OP)
The Linux Foundation is a partner in Glasswing so it has access to Mythos Preview.
LordyPandazz@reddit
I’m gonna have to create Lithos now to start denying PR’s automatically I guess.