Swiss parent company Lufthansa cancels 20,000 short-haul flights
Posted by ABoutDeSouffle@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 55 comments
Posted by ABoutDeSouffle@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 55 comments
StuckinSuFu@reddit
Long term this will only help spur on europe's continued investment into rail across multiple countries.
JourneyThiefer@reddit
For the mainland it’s good, for us in Ireland it seems like it’ll just limit travelling to those who can afford to paying larger air fees.
So it’s shit for islands with no rail connections to other countries…
vaska00762@reddit
It's the longest distance connections I have my doubts over.
Sure, it's theoretically possible to run a direct train service from Germany to Norway, but unless people accept a 12-15 hour rail journey through Denmark and Sweden, I don't see it happening soon.
Connections to islands are also going to prove difficult, especially with Ireland, Malta, Cyprus, and countries functionally no different to islands like Finland or Greece.
European rail networks are substantially better, but if you want to see the massive disparity very long distance rail and flying have to each other, look at Amtrak vs any of the US airlines, or VIA Rail vs Air Canada or West Jet. Especially in the latter instance. A 5 hour flight between Toronto and Vancouver is probably going to be a couple hundred Canadian dollars. A sleeper cabin for 4 days (95 hours) on the Canadian is more like two thousand Canadian dollars.
And especially when countries drag their feet on connecting the largest airports with anything other than the largest city, see London Heathrow with London, Dublin Airport with Dublin, or Helsinki Airport with Helsinki, it then makes it so that more people will just drive 2-4 hours to these biggest airports... or just fly someone else.
Do you think someone is going to drive 7+ hours from Scotland to London? No... they'll take KLM or British Airways and connect through there
Historical_Term2454@reddit
Is it really 7h+ from Scotland to London? It's 3-4h by rail from Edinburgh or Glasgow.
vaska00762@reddit
The motorways have a speed limit of 70 mph. This is often enforced automatically, so speeding is likely going to land a fine and 3 penalty points.
As the journey is about 420 miles from somewhere in the Central Belt (let's assume it's not anywhere further north like Dundee, Aberdeen or Inverness) to Heathrow Airport. Depending on the fuel economy of your car, you're going to need to refuel along the way.
Also, driving 7 hours continuously is unlikely. You're going to want to stop multiple times to use the toilet, stretch, eat, and have a mental break from concentrating on driving.
The train, yes it probably does complete the Glasgow-Euston journey in about 4 hours, but you'll still need to get to Glasgow Central, which takes probably up to an hour, and then have enough time to change trains, and then at Euston Station, take the Victoria Line Underground 2 stops to Oxford Circus, and then take the Elizabeth Line to Heathrow, which is probably another hour of journey time.
NorthCoastToast@reddit
That's a particular difference between a European and an American. Eight-hour road trips are common here in the US, and I would say that's accomplished with two stops, of course that heavily depends on who is making the drive, but if it just you, or you and a buddy or two, you're gonna make that drive in two stops or less.
Corona21@reddit
In the UK a 7 hour drive is a gauntlet run. There are so many dense urban areas and motorways that hit capacity that you are at a high risk of multiple delays due to traffic. If you plan a 7 hour drive you should budget at least 8-9 hours for traffic and breaks and dont be surprised at the odd 10 hours if theres an accident.
NorthCoastToast@reddit
That would be an issue on the densely populated East coast, but once you're across the Mississippi you can hit stretches of highway that go on for days. People aren't exaggerating when they say you can drive eight hours and never leave the state of Texas. At its widest point, Texas is more than 700 miles wide.
Corona21@reddit
Yes
juanmlm@reddit
No, usually it’s not 7 hours, it’s more because of signal faults, or whatever. Trains in the UK are absolutely terrible.
ZeroWashu@reddit
A timely story Guardian where one of the big issues of rail is ticketing especially across different countries.
One of the factors always in favor of air is that you get there very quickly versus rail and for many people time is always constrained and can be the difference of being able to take that trip or not.
vaska00762@reddit
I don't know if there's been a Not Just Bikes video on the topic, but the problem with rail ticketing always remains the fact that CIV tickets can cause a bunch of problems, especially with delays, missed connections, and the CIV requirements for tickets to be honoured in such a way that the railway must then get you to your destination by taxi if necessary.
For most European rail tickets, the CIV is in the top left, just under the logo.
I have no idea how many CIV tickets remain in use in Britain, but in Ireland, Dublin-Belfast train tickets have CIV on them.
ProT3ch@reddit
Yeah I flew from Budapest to Bari (Italy), and it was like an hour and ten minutes flight. It is actually surprising how close it is. Driving that would be something like 16 hours.
christianbro@reddit
Dont think rail makes sense for over 1000km, you spend a whole day on a train for what is a bit over an hour flying. More than that distance and the gains are obvious.
Here in Spain the longest distance to our capital is around 500km, that is (hopefully) under 3h and the hassle of flying is not worth it.
railker@reddit
And on VIA Rail because the tracks are owned by the freight lines you can pretty much guarantee a late arrival. The booking page straight up tells you not to plan to arrive that day for things like catching a cruise or a flight.
BLARTYMACMUFFIN@reddit
Short to medium term we are all screwed.
phaederus@reddit
If it makes you feel better, long term we're also all screwed :)
577564842@reddit
So long-term experience in a short-term.
SwissMargiela@reddit
My country (Switzerland) has an amazing rail system but it’s simply cheaper to drive. Sometimes it’s even faster to drive because no transfers, although not a huge issue, it’s usually like a 5-15 min difference.
Anyway, rail is gonna keep declining unless they figure out a way to make it much cheaper. Especially with these Chinese EVs flooding the market making car ownership cheap in terms of buying a vehicle and no fuel.
KehreAzerith@reddit
Rail is great for short to medium distance domestic travel, but when you're trying to get several countries over nobody wants to sit in a train for 15 hours and change rails 6 times just to get to their destination.
To some degree regional air travel will always be relevant
nugeythefloozey@reddit
You’re right that to some degree regional air travel will always be needed, but a route like Frankfurt - Rzeszów could be relatively efficient on the rails with the right infrastructure. (That’s one of the routes in the article)
Hypothetically, you could run an overnight train from Frankfurt to Krakow that extends to Rzeszów with minimal investment. This would have an effective travel time of about 3-4 hours, not counting the overnight hours which would only be used for sleep anyway, similar to how lie-flat business class seats helped kill the Concorde’s original business case. The downside of a sleeper train is that there is limited flexibility in departure times.
Alternatively, the higher cost, higher benefit option would be to build a Frankfurt - Leipzig - Dresden - Wroclaw - Katowice - Krakow high speed line, and then connect to Rzeszów on regional trains. It would have a longer journey time (5-6 hours), but could replace other regional flights too
That said, a route like Frankfurt - Stavanger (also in the article) cannot be feasibly replaced by rail, and will always be best run by air, either with direct flights or connecting itineraries
phaederus@reddit
In theory that all sounds awesome, till you realise you're dealing with inter-country infrastructure projects, and Germany is notoriously terrible at building infrastructure..
Party-Cartographer11@reddit
You can't just wave away the overnight rail. I could sleep in my bed (1,000 x's better) and fly there in the a.m. and get there at the same time.
Corona21@reddit
Or get their a little later but just on time for check-in
Techhead7890@reddit
With the caveat if it needs to run directly at all, although I suppose you cover this in the second option with connecting in Oslo (according to their local airport website this is where more of their flights come from, along with some from Amsterdam, Copenhagen/København, Stockholm). Stavanger is only 150k population so potentially there is not much direct demand. It seems that Frankfurt flights are continuing to Bergen, which is on the same coast but a bit of a bigger city.
Herr_Hornbuckele@reddit
Come to Europe, then reconsider. In Central Europe, you will not change 6 times even on multi country journeys to fairly obscure destinations. Speed is a question of infrastructure development.
ivlia-x@reddit
My 90 minutes flight from Turin to Warsaw is a 12 hours long journey anyway: wake up at 6, catch a flixbus at 6:40/7:00, 2 hours to get to Malpensa (3 if I have to fly from Bergamo), then wait 2-3 hours (sometimes more) for the flight that isn’t even 2 hours long, either wait 1-2 hours for another flixbus or sprint to catch the one that’s uncomfortably too early, 1-2 hours to get to my hometown. Also I pay more for the buses than for the flight itself
I would kill for a fast train connection
KderNacht@reddit
If regional air travel still makes sense in China and mainland Japan it will make sense anywhere on earth.
Major-Ant4600@reddit
This is my fear if things keep up and my LHR-BCN flights are cancelled. Transferring across three rail lines is 12 -15 hours vs 2 hours on a plane. Two days of vacation effectively lost.
JustLTU@reddit
Lmao. Sure, if you're lucky enough to live in the imperial core.
Those of us on the outskirts are simply fucked
mightymike24@reddit
This keeps being said over and over. Can you show me any evidence that this is the case?
happyFatFIRE@reddit
Train service is garbage here. No matter how many billions you throw at, it won’t help
ILikeFlyingMachines@reddit
Except for Germany because our politicians love cars too much
NastroAzzurro@reddit
Yeah this is a good thing
Pro-editor-1105@reddit
Why tf does this article keep reffering lufthansa as "Swiss parent company"
Upset_Barracuda2137@reddit
It's from a Swiss media outlet.
Blobloblobl@reddit
The article is from a Swiss news source (.ch)
Pro-editor-1105@reddit
dang i didn't know .ch is swiss, thanks.
Dangerous-Rice44@reddit
Switzerland is “Confoederatio helvetica” in Latin. Yeah, without that knowledge .ch makes no sense.
Dwilliamson5002@reddit
Swiss’s regional carrier is named Helvetica as well to tie things together here.
AutomaticAccount6832@reddit
Helvetic and there is also one called Chair.
Dwilliamson5002@reddit
Autocorrect get me all the time. I do think I have ever heard of Chair or flown on it. Have to spend some time out on the google.
purepwnage85@reddit
It's basically the Swiss ryanair
Pro-editor-1105@reddit
Chairlines
Pro-editor-1105@reddit
I thought helvetica was just a font lol. Thanks for telling me, i learn something new everyday!
the_tytan@reddit
Maybe helvetica the font is called that because its very neutral, like Switzerland.
StuckinSuFu@reddit
They had one bad fight with Julius Caesar in the 50's BC, and they,ve stayed put ever since.
Azsickboi@reddit
This headline makes no sense. And the image is of a Swiss airplane.
flightist@reddit
Lufthansa Group owns Swiss. “Swiss parent company” is referring to the parent company of Swiss, not the nationality of the parent company.
ABoutDeSouffle@reddit (OP)
I would have cut that part out, but some subs are super sensitive about changing the web page title, so I just take it as it comes.
nightfox42@reddit
Because the article is by a swiss company...
An_ocean_of_salt@reddit
Because it’s a Swiss news site writing about Lufthansa, the company that owns Swiss Airlines
OkBaker51@reddit
Government bailout coming in 3, 2, 1. 🙄
ABoutDeSouffle@reddit (OP)
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