Why is BiH not just called Bosnia?

But what would than guys from Herzegovina do, guys who chase some random travel vlogers to explain them that they are wrong for using term Bosnia for a whole country. “Thats not Bosnia it is Herzegovina” every f… time.

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ilovemangos3@reddit

Yes, American english speakers have similar jokes with New Jersey lmao

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Ajatolah_@reddit

Bosnia was actually named just Bosnia for the biggest part of its history. Herzegovina was just one of its regions.

And the country would probably stay just And the country would probably stay just "Bosnia", if not for a rebellion of Bosnian leadership in 1831-1833 against the Ottoman Empire. One of the most prominent leaders who decided to remain loyal to the Ottomans during the rebellion was from Herzegovina. After the rebellion ended, the Ottomans decided to remove the Herzegovina sanjak out of the Bosnian eyalet and made this guy a vizier as a reward, effectively creating a separate Herzegovina administrative unit.

50 years forward, Bosnia (and Herzegovina) was assigned to Austria-Hungary at the Congress of Berlin. When they came to power, they merged the country back together, but Austrians now named it Bosnia and Herzegovina instead of reverting to the historical name. This name was carried over into Yugoslavia and later into independence.

So the name is in a sense kind of a historical coincidence. Bosnia and Herzegovina are not two political units or something like that.

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Soft-Temporary8876@reddit

This is very interesnig. Do you know the name of the leader or can you suggest some literature about this topic?

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Ajatolah_@reddit

Ali-paša Rizvanbegović.

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AdoJado@reddit

Stjepan Vukčić Kosača (Medieval context)

Read into the Bosnian Uprising led by Husein kapetan Gradascevic and his domestic enemies; particullary Smail aga Cengic and Ali pasa Rizvanbegovic

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ZAMAHACHU@reddit

Herzeg (his title) Stjepan Vukčić Kosača was who the region was named after just to clarify. He lived centuries before the mentioned rebellion. The traitor that got it separated from Bosnia was Ali paša Rizvanbegović.

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rndmlgnd@reddit

Yeah, OP got his timelines mixed up

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Ovinme@reddit

„This guy“ , you can say his name freely: Ali Pasa Rizvanbegovic

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Fickle-Message-6143@reddit

So the name is in a sense kind of a historical coincidence.

I mean a lot of things are just that.

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Ovinme@reddit

„Almost nobody ever uses the Herzegovina part“

The people YOU met never call it that way, try calling people from Herzegovina Bosnians and watch their reactions (especially if they are ethnic Croats or Serbs).

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Sheb1995@reddit

Because it's not, Becky.

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Far-Performance-412@reddit

Why is Trinidad and Tobago not just called Trinidad

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Krembiloid@reddit

It's the old divide and conquer tactic, Austrohungarians are to blame for this. Specifically a juice named Benjamin Kalay.

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ha11oga11o@reddit

I am from Bosnia “part” and im pissed when is called only Bosnia. Im also pissed with bloody english name because country name is “ Bosna i Hercegovina”!!! Its not my problem why pro Americans cant pronounce it. Its just stupid force call countries whatever they can spit from mouth.

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alkorisno@reddit

Looks like you want a war to start again.

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stepanija@reddit

gif

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Rich_Plant2501@reddit

Confusion is not important factor because if you're informed enough to know the political situation you already understand the name. Also, modern regions of Bosnia and Herzegovina cover the entire country, Podrinje and Krajina you mentioned are completely in these regions. Also, people use the full name occasionally, I specifically use BiH often when typing.

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crivycouriac@reddit (OP)

It’s confusing because the ‘two’ names don’t correspond to the entities. So an already complex situation becomes even worse

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Fickle-Message-6143@reddit

The real name or the first name of Srpska was "Serbian republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina".

Entities were modern creation, while regions existed for several centuries.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

The name has nothing to do with the current political situation. It simply came out of some specific 19th circumstances. Before that it was just Bosnia.

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Rich_Plant2501@reddit

I didn't say it has anything to do with with political situation, I said that if you understand political situation, name is not an issue.

Before that it was just Bosnia.

Or just Herzogovina. Both existed for long time before 19th century.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

Not just. Herzegovina existed literally within Bosnia, as it was a sanjak within the Bosnian eyalet/vilayet for 400 hundred years. Before that that territory was part of the Bosnian kingdom and Bosnian banate. In fact, the term Herzegovina is only first used after the ottoman conquest.

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Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit

It was part of the Bosnian Eyalet from 1580 to 1833 and again from 1851 to 1878. It was part of the Bosnian Kingdom for around 100 years, from 1326 to 1357, and then again from 1382 to around 1448 or 1466. Before 1326 those areas were never part of Bosnia.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

Yes, before 1326 the area was part of different Serbian states and the term Herzegovina didn’t exist.

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Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit

It was independent Sclavinia and was part of Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Dioclea, and the Byzantine Empire before it ever became part of Bosnia. In fact, before it became part of Bosnia, Stjepan Kotromanić conquered it from the Šubić family.

Despite all of that, it retained its Hum identity, although during Stjepan Kosača it was diminished, as he did not tie his identity to Hum but had broader ambitions. The most prominent local nobility after the Kosača family, such as the Jurjevići-Vlatkovići, preserved their Hum identity even after Ottomans.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

There was no “Hum” identity. That bs is just modern Croat revisionism trying to justify their separatism. The western part was primary Catholic while the eastern was orthodox, and the areas had historically belonged to different entities, with nothing in common. The Kosaca family itself was from eastern Bosnia, around Gorazde.

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Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit

There was no “Hum” identity.

In 922, Pope John X refers to Michael of Zahumlje as "excellentissimo duci Chulmorum".

I suggest you read this https://de.scribd.com/document/651392882/Na-rubu-Zapada-Tri-stoljeca-srednjovjeko, starting from page 141. You will see that the Humljani themselves viewed themselves as different from the surrounding Sclavinians, and there are numerous documents supporting this.

The expansion into the depth of society is best attested by the fact that, during the 14th and 15th centuries, all migrants from the land of Hum in the Dalmatian cities (Split, Trogir, Šibenik, Zadar) identified themselves as such for all occasions, regardless of their status and position – by their origin they were, or they came from, the land of Hum (Comsqua semia). On the other hand, in only one case, recorded in Split in 1454, did an individual identify as someone coming from the ‘Principality of the Herzog Stjepan [the] Bosnian’. The Herzog himself did not equate his province with the land of Hum, and it is very significant that, when creating his title of Herzog, he had doubts as to what territorial content to give to that title.

And this is in the 15th century, when the Hum identity started to diminish, as I said. The Kosača family is not native to the region, as you said, they are from eastern Bosnia, and its founder Vuk Hranić was a knight of Stefan Dušan.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

All that says is that refugees from the region of Hum said that they were from the region of Hum. How does that prove a deep rooted “identity”? People from Slavonia also would have, on many occasions, said that they were from Slavonia, instead of Croatia or Hungary. Same with Dalmatia and tons of minor regions around there and literally any state around that period.

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Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit

Slavonians did in fact see themselves as Slavonians until the 17th century, rather than as Croats. Here

Kad je riječ o povijesti identiteta, ne možemo naše današnje razmišljanje i shvaćanje nacionalnog identiteta prekopirati u prošlost. Evo, sad smo u Zagrebu, glavnom gradu Hrvatske. Ali ovaj prostor sjeverozapadne Hrvatske u srednjem vijeku bila je Gornja Slavonija. Ni tu nema hrvatskog imena. Tek u 16. stoljeću integriraju se Hrvatska i Slavonija u Kraljevinu Hrvatsku, Dalmaciju i Slavoniju. U 17. stoljeću na ovom području hrvatsko ime polako potiskuje slavonsko, a Slavonijom se tada naziva prostor koji su zauzeli Turci. Stalne su vam dinamike, kako migracijske, tako identitetske. O nekom nacionalnom identitetu ne možemo govoriti prije 19. stoljeća. Jedino je kod plemstva koje ima Sabor i upravlja županijama taj osjećaj političkog naroda bio prije razvijen. Kod običnog puka u predmoderno razdoblje bitan je uglavnom konfesionalni identitet.

I suggest you read the book by Mladen Ančić, at least the section from pages 140 to 180, i gave you the link.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

Now go ahead and find the same in regard to that so called “Hum” identity.

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Sad_Philosopher_3163@reddit

It is in the book I linked you, i will not do the job for you. Something from De Administrando Imperio, chapter 29.

Since the reign of Heraclius, emperor of the Romans, as will be related in the narrative concerning the Croats and Serbs, the whole of Dalmatia and the nations about it, such as Croats, Serbs, Zachlumi, Terbouniotes, Kanalites, Diocletians and Arentani, who are also called Pagani «xxx. But when the Roman empire, through the sloth and inexperience of those who then governed it and especially in the time of Michael from Amorion, the Lisper, had declined to the verge of total extinction, the inhabitants of the cities of Dalmatia became independent, subject neither to the emperor of the Romans nor to anybody else, and, what is more, the nations of those parts, the Croats and Serbs and Zachlumites, Terbuniotes and Kanalites and Diocletians and the Pagani, shook off the reins of the empire of the Romans and became self-governing and independent, subject to none. Princes, as they say, these nations had none, but only ‘zupans’, elders, as is the rule in the other Slavonic regions. Moreover, the majority of these Slavs were not even baptized, and remained unbaptized for long enough.

Bosnia is not even mentioned as a separate nation, it is simply listed once as an integral land within Christianized Serbia by Constantine Porfirogenetus.

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Maximus_Dominus@reddit

You made a claim, but then quoted part of a text that does not at all prove your claim. Now you are doing exactly the same again. You actually proving your point is not something you are doing for me.

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Shqiptar89@reddit

You probably use the fake name of republika srpska

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Rich_Plant2501@reddit

Sorry, I won't argue with you, if that's something you were looking for.

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ahmet-chromedgeic@reddit

I'd argue the question is good, because most people do not know the history of the name Bosnia and Herzegovina. Yourself included, based on the answer you gave.

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Rich_Plant2501@reddit

Somehow I feel smarter when I read something you wrote, but it's not because I learned something.

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Bath-Hopeful@reddit

For many of us its just shorter and easier in every chit chat. Same as Americans United States without America. No one dismisses Herzegovina or tries to claim everything is Bosnia, because its not. Herzegovina is one third of our country and altough very rocky, its extremely beautiful.

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Gadoguz994@reddit

Sadly, a LOT of people try to dismiss it and claim everything is Bosnia, especially certain (not all) muslims when talking to foreigners. They get a hard on from convincing them it's just Bosnia. Seen it happen many times and it's laughable just about as much as it is sad.

Lots of countries have multiple word names and they usually don't get the same shit treatment.

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Gadoguz994@reddit

Ragebait for sure.

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Valuable_Pick_9704@reddit

Rage bait post

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Catman_192@reddit

Bosnia is still just a region, sure it's the largest, but you can't just say Herzegovina is Bosnia. It's like England and UK, you can't just say Scotland is England. Bosnia and Herzegovina are two regions that are united, Bosnia is bigger by area and population and also more famous, but Herzegovina isn't part of Bosnia.

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Fred_Neecheh@reddit

"Why is Belgium not just called Wallonia?"

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PVanchurov@reddit

Belgium doesn't exist, it's a fictional place, I don't know why people keep insisting it's real.

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Neat-Attempt7442@reddit

UK, France and the Netherlands needed a place to settle their scores.

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tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit

Why is BiH not just called Herzegovina?

Fixed that for you

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fullbl-_-@reddit

Why BiH and not B&H? Or even Boh!

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ZobGraffiti@reddit

En Français, Herzégovine sonne mieux que Bosnie

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Damirirv@reddit

The term BiH was first used during the Berlin Congress where it was unilateraly agreed that "A-H may occupy the regions of Bosnia and Herzegovina of the Ottoman Empire". After the annexation of those territories, A-H created the Condomium of BiH as neither Austria nor Hungary could agree on splitting it, and the term for it just stuck around since then.

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iheartloud420@reddit

Half of my family are hercegivina serbs

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Damirirv@reddit

Hey if your family calls themselves Herzegovinian that's their choice, but when I was in Trebinje everyone I met refered to themselves as just "Serbians from Herzegovina"

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iheartloud420@reddit

Hercegovian is just a geographical term just like german from bavaria is bavarian but still german, its not an ethnicity

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obzovica@reddit

In which twisted reality are Hercegovci just Croats!?!?

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Damirirv@reddit

I have never seen anyone besides Croats call themselves Hercegovinian, the others just call themselves Bosnians/Serbs from Herzegovina, not Herzegovinian

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obzovica@reddit

I don't know, my good friend is from mixed Serb/Bosniak family and he says he is proud Herzegovian and doesn't like when someone says he is Bosnian.

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Mammoth_Meet_9313@reddit

Bosnians from Herzegowina.

Insanity.

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WIZZZARDOFFREESTYLE@reddit

Better bih than dih 🥀🥀🥀🥀

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SolaireOfChadstora@reddit

Well the modern border/name of the country came to be like this:

It was all under the Bosnian Eyalet under the Ottoman Empire.After the early 1800s revolt against the Ottomans the leader of the southern part of the Bosnian Eyalet Ali pasa Rizvanbegovic didnt side with Gradascevic and sided with the Turks, as an reward they separated Herzegovina from Bosnia and made it a separate eyalet with him as the ruler, then it became the eyalet of Bosnia and the eyalet of Herzegovina (afterwards they killed him too because they feared others would try to rebel and then make peace to get more autonomy, Ottomans wanted to heavily centralize the Empire in the 19th century when they started falling behind the European powers)

After that the Berlin congress happened, AustriaHungary took over the land and it became the condominium of BiH (they used Bosnia and Herzegovina as the name in the congress), afterwards in the communist Yugoslavia they simply kept the borders and the name . Then in 1992 BiH declared independence and thats about how it goes.

Im a Bosniak from Herzegovina, i dont really care if you say Bosnian to me, i do feel Bosnian , to me Herzegovina is part of Bosnia for historic reasons, Croats and Serbs usually want to separate Bosnia and Herzegovina(and get pissy if you call them Bosnian haha) which truthfully speaking is not that wrong either, the Ottomans separated Herzegovina from Bosnia almost 200 years ago. So its not exactly the same as Krajina and Podrinje

Imagine the Austrians separated Drava from Slovenia for Dravas loyality to the empire while Slovenes rebelled for some reason, and its been like that for 200 years. Modern country is named Slovenia and Drava. Some Slovenes are gonna refer to it as something thats still part of Slovenia, some are gonna say its a whole other thing, i dont think either is really wrong, the thing is that here its also used for ethnic tensions (like everything else) although it is funny to me that its the Serbs and Croats (and not us) that heavily support this separation even though it was the Ottomans who enforced it.

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Big-Vegetable4550@reddit

Well, it’s not that dumb of a question, but given that the current BiH is composed of parts that were never part of Bosnia or Hercegovina, is there even a name that could apply to everything? Mind you, I really love all parts of BiH and the cultures involved, and do wish it could be one proud multi-cultural country (because it really is a beautiful place with an incredible history).

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Corleone0@reddit

Coz BiH includes regions of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's pretty simple actually.

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HumanMan00@reddit

https://youtu.be/xXQORBotRRA?si=pS2ykgWNcV1HVj5F

Nobody explains it better than professor Spahić. If you can understand BCMS its very much worth a listen.

You'll laugh, be angry, feel stupid, be confused and ultimately learn a lot.

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