CATL debuts EV battery with speedy six-minute recharge and a 1,000-km range
Posted by Recoil42@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 97 comments
Posted by Recoil42@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 97 comments
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
600m range but no mention of the car it was tested in? Hype.
Facts_pls@reddit
Battery company focusing on battery - oh wow, how suspicious...
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
Why not say how much the holds? 600 miles of range is meaningless without knowing the circumstances. Why not say 100kWh with 6 minute recharge? Giving us a range is BS. Could be in golf cart for all we know.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Because no one knows what a kilowatt-hour is. Range is what is parsable for most people.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
Why are you simping for a battery maker not releasing information about their battery? And how is “stupid people exist” in any way a justification for not providing more info?
Facts_pls@reddit
Brother not sure what world you live in, but every single car company talks about the range.
Pretty sure I've never seen a car ad that talks about how many watt hours are in there.
Also, lots of people read random articles and headline. That's how news works. Do you think everyone who read nasa headlines was an astronaut?
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
You used a lot of words when you could have just said “I don’t understand your criticism please explain it to me”.
My criticism is that the article (it is an article not an advertisement from a car manufacturer) provides no context. A claim, without context is hype.
No information = hype.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
I'm telling you what's standard in the industry. Most battery-makers talk about their packs and technologies in terms of range in press releases because energy density is way too complicated to explain to the average Mashable reader.
No one knows what 210Wh/kg means because you'd have to do quite a bit of math (and even know things like cell formats and module packaging) to know whether that's good or bad or what it actually means to the average person buying a car. The actual specs are available and publicized, but that's not what works for headlines.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
Who are these people who don’t know anything about EV batteries reading articles about EV batteries?? You have created a strawman to justify industry wide hype. It’s not hard to slip in the size of the battery. Seriously. Why even you did it just now as a hypothetical.
No real information = hype
Sufficient_Movie4835@reddit
Apparently you have zero idea who the average consumer is. He's right. The average consumer that's buying cars only wants to know range and how long it takes to charge up from 10 percent to 90 percent. And that's after they've thought about it for a while. Only nerds want to know detail specs like vehicle weight, range efficiency, battery capacity in kWh's. Etc. I own electric vehicles, and used to rent vehicles out on Turo. I avoided renting Teslas because the learning curve is too great for the average consumer and I didn't want to teach a class Everytime I rented one out. I'm still a member on the forums and guess what, people that rent them are still running the batteries out and needing to get them towed and abandoning them because it's too complicated for them. Yeah I have no idea how they even got their drivers license. Point is some people don't want to learn and it's more people than you would think.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
You guys will come up with anything to excuse a lack of information in this article. Paid shills every last one of you.
Sufficient_Movie4835@reddit
Well you better tell me who's paying me because I need the money. Your such a whiny crybaby just because you think they should write you a nerd approved dissertation on their car. If you want the good stuff just go look it up or call the company directly and ask. Take your narcissistic self somewhere else. This article was written for technically challenged average readers.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
😂😂😂 Heaven forbid it include actual information. It’s absolutely hilarious that you are so offended by someone pointing out an article, that has nothing to do with you personally, is empty hype that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
I don't know how to explain to you that normal-ass people read the news to learn about things they don't know much about. That's... the whole point of the news.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
And how are these normal-ass people going to learn anything when the article doesn’t have any information?
No information = hype
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Absolute precision isn't the goal of mainstream news reporting. You need to condense the information to be approachable. Again, I can't believe I'm being forced to explain this at all right now.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
I have to assume that you are being paid to be this persistent. And your arguments are all over the place. First we can’t be give info because some people are uninformed, then somehow the uninformed people are learning from the articles that lack information and now it’s “absolute precision”!! 😂😂
So anything more than just a empty information-less press release of an article is ABSOLUTE PRECISION and well by golly gosh that just not what the press does! Awe shucks. Tell me, while BS will you invent next in your endless simping for CATL?
No information = hype.
markeydarkey2@reddit
Because the purpose of the news is to highlight advances in their battery chemistry & a big range number is an easier way to explain improvements for cell density. Something like a Lucid Air could easily do >600mi in the CLTC cycle used in China (which biases towards lower city speeds) given the large battery and high efficiency, but it can't charge this fast.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
But they didn’t say that. All they did was give a completely unsupported statement.
Heavy_Initiative_137@reddit
It's just CATL revealing their new generation of batteries. I don't know what you mean by hype, but CATL has already won so comprehensively.
InternetSolid4166@reddit
I think the user above is correct. Their press release didn’t reveal the actual battery capacity. 1,000km range is meaningless unless we know the chassis, the motors, the software, and most importantly, the testing standard. China’s CLTC is 50% higher on the Tesla Model Y, for example, than the EPA tested range.
objectivePOV@reddit
If you watch their presentation launch event
https://youtu.be/VnBBoZpzt-A?t=1979
or read an article from a better publication than financialpost, then you would see they show all the specs. They claim 1,000 km range is achieved with a 125 KWh battery capacity.
InternetSolid4166@reddit
Thanks! It sounds like the achievement here then is the faster charging, not energy density. 125kWh should easily achieve 1,000km under CLTC standards. Given the chemistry chosen, it will be very heavy.
objectivePOV@reddit
The time I linked in the video shows all the specs. They improved energy density, weight, charging and range.
Not much heavier than current lithium batteries, and 255kg lighter than current lithium batteries with the same range.
NCM cathode
200 Wh/kg gravimetric density
600 Wh/L columetric density
10C - 15C supercharging
1000+ km range
625 kg weight
125 kWh capacity
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objectivePOV@reddit
CATL did an in depth presentation showing all detailed the specs and metrics.
This financialpost article and a bunch of other news sites just published parts of that information based on whatever they think will get the most clicks.
https://youtu.be/VnBBoZpzt-A?t=1979
Looks like they use a "standard" 2.6 Ton (5200 lbs) EV sedan for their calculations. I didn't watch the whole presentation, just some parts. Sounds to me like they have accurate data for their existing batteries in vehicles, and applied the new battery specs to that data.
Magnus_The_Totem_Cat@reddit
Thanks for the follow up. I hadn’t found anything when I looked.
bane_undone@reddit
This is old news even.
yobo9193@reddit
Cool, wonder if it actually does what it says it does
AmericanExcellence@reddit
"it" apparently doesn't exist. it's two different batteries, neither of which combines the features that the deceptive title of this post would suggest.
what's the capacity of the 6-minute battery? what's the charge time of the 1,000-km battery? anyone can make batteries that meet either or the other of these specs.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Charging time is capacity independent, and the 1,000km battery is the six-minute battery. The only other battery manufacturer on earth currently doing >=10C automotive-grade batteries is BYD, CATL's competitor. None of LG/SDI/SK's packs are close.
Redbulldildo@reddit
Why does it talk about different battery chemistries for the six minute and 1000mi batteries if they're the same?
beau_tox@reddit
I can't find an announcement where they specify the range but there's a current version of that battery that has a 1,000 km range so it seems reasonable that this new generation would be capable of that as well.
It's also confusing because CATL announced five different battery technology advancements:
Essentially they've covered every vehicle performance niche that anyone could want:
I'm fascinated with the sodium-ion one because it doesn't use cobalt or nickel, replaces copper foil with aluminum foil, isn't flammable, has a 10,000 cycle life, and retains 90% of it's range in extreme cold (-40C).
meodd8@reddit
“Inflammable” is a synonym for “flammable”, FYI.
I don’t think you meant to say that the battery is easy to set on fire.
NFIFTY2@reddit
What a country!
beau_tox@reddit
Doh! I should have remembered that but the English language strikes again.
meodd8@reddit
Yeah, it’s a tricky one
objectivePOV@reddit
https://youtu.be/VnBBoZpzt-A?t=1979
Redbulldildo@reddit
Is there a battery that gives me multiple of those features together? Because an ICE does.
budgefrankly@reddit
Does your ICE get fuelled to the brim while you sleep at home at night so you never have to go to a gas station?
Is your ICE free of vibration at low speeds?
Will the cost of your commute double if something happens in a middle-eastern country thousands of miles from where you live?
Can you power your ICE by wind? Nuclear? Or are you limited to oil...
Also, why are we even talking about ICEs? If someone made a better petrol engine, will this sub suddenly fill up with folks talking about the great range their diesels get? What's so triggering about having more choices of better quality?
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Because both of the batteries have ultra-fast charging.
Qilin (NMC) and Shenxing (LFP) were both announced today, both do 10C/15C class charging. We'll have to wait for exact charging times with Qilin, but it should in that same range. There were actually four batteries announced today, with new hybrid Freevoy packs also being announced and condensed-matter (not sure if there's a brand name yet) semi-solid-state packs.
u/AmericanExcellence, as usual, is talking out of their ass. Note the username — this is a repeated schtick for them.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Welcome to modern american automotive excellence, thats what we do best
4LFR1NK@reddit
There's a pattern of cell models with higher C-rates featuring lower power density and vice versa across all the manufacturer catalogues I've seen. Charging time being cell-level doesn't disprove that they could be talking about two separate models with different cell chemistries that separately fulfilled their respective goals. Frankly, I'd prefer seeing that over a development vehicle with unrealistically compromised packaging due to overly large and heavy battery just to hit both target numbers.
We can take bold claims huge companies make about future products with a grain of salt and still look forward to technological advancements.
fkenthrowaway@reddit
You mean energy density?
4LFR1NK@reddit
Yep, thanks, corrected it.
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c0reM@reddit
lol explaining C rate to /u/AmericanExcellence may take some time.
Ironically unironic username
i_marketing@reddit
I see this user constantly post misinformation. It's a shame really.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Reality bubbles rely on disinfo and learning is antithesis to that, so I imagine it won't happen here anytime soon, unfortunately.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
CATL doesn't fuck around.
yobo9193@reddit
What have we learned about trusting Chinese media without independent fact checking?
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Bloomberg News is an American media outlet.
yobo9193@reddit
Sorry, let me rephrase that: what have we learned about trusting Chinese companies without independent fact checking?
Facts_pls@reddit
This is what propaganda looks like.
"Chinese must mean lies."
"My government and companies lying all day" - who cares? "
How are those tariff cheques coming along?
What about that Tesla roadster?
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Yep. Any guesses if u/yobo9193 is leaving "what have we learned about trusting American companies" comments in GM and Ford posts? I'm going to go with no — this is what propaganda-bubble jingoism look like, folks.
yobo9193@reddit
Oh wow, you tagged me? I’m flattered. I hope you get paid a bonus for going above and beyond for your China glazing
Cottagecheesecurls@reddit
There’s no need to be insecure about the fact we’re getting whooped in the EV and battery technology sectors. The company you’re trying to discredit for being Chinese provides high quality batteries all over the world. It’s not glazing to call you out for your only reason given to distrust them is the fact they are based in China.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Yeah dingus, in the conversation you're already in.
Heavy_Initiative_137@reddit
Chinese companies are literally the only relevant players in EV battery tech. CATL and BYD stand head and shoulders above their domestic competition, and at this point the foreign competition has become completely irrelevant.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
We should've learned not to do reductive jingoist nonsense painting all companies from China with the same brush while bizarrely ignoring that exaggerated claims exist in the west too — but it seems you skipped that class in school.
CATL is the world's largest battery-maker and a supplier to Volkswagen, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Tesla, Xiaomi, and a bunch more. They have a track record and a reputation to maintain. This isn't some fly-by night startup pumping out a blog post like Donut or whatever.
Facts_pls@reddit
That's they deliver more than American media which just repeats whatever Musk said. China is where all the innovation in this domain is coming from.
I'm guessing you are American and so haven't actually seen many Chinese EVs.
In a recent extreme real world test (forgetting the name but a big reporting company for EVs) , Chinese cars had the least drop in performance in cold weather (~30% drop) vs stated range. American and German EVs performed the worst. (~40% drop)
So... Yeah Chinese aren't the ones lying on stats right now. You should be more worried about American company claims. I'm still waiting for Musk's claims from over a decade ago
Daddy_Macron@reddit
This isn't some fly by night operation. This is CATL, the world's largest manufacturer of EV grade batteries. In addition to most of the large Chinese EV markers, they also sell to Tesla, BMW, Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes-Benz, Stellantis, Hyundai, Honda, Volvo, and Nissan. They're highly credible.
Asleep-Use-7336@reddit
you also need megawatt-class infrastructure to hit that 6-min window, which barely exists outside China rn. cool on paper.
markeydarkey2@reddit
That infrastructure will exist with time, but you still benefit in other ways. A flat 350kW from an EV station until ~80% will be much faster than anything sold here, that's like 10min 10-80% for a 85kWh pack. Charging speeds like this scale down to smaller packs too, a subcompact like the Bolt or Leaf with 60kWh at a constant 350kW from 10-80% would only need 7 minutes.
Sufficient_Movie4835@reddit
Only if the charging curve is flat. It would have to be even flatter than a Nissan Aryia for those numbers. I dunno if you've looked at those curves but a lot of these cars bragging about high charge rates only hit those high numbers for a very short time in their charge cycle. But hey bragging rights I guess.
markeydarkey2@reddit
It will be for a pack like this when limited by a charger, that's how good the charging performance is.
Obviously they don't hold peak speeds for long but the curves are WAY better than anything available in my market (US). The (slower, still fast) BYD Blade 2 will pull about 420kW at 80% with an 82.732kWh battery, if you scaled that charging down to a 60kWh pack it'd pull ~305kW at 80%. The CATL battery above charges faster and would probably retain 350kW until ~80% for 60kWh.
Ok-Marzipan495@reddit
China and India are the most populous countries in the world and thus the most important country for humanity. Europe and America believe that because they are richer their lives have more value which is just st*pid. To the future downvoters: cope.
andrewia@reddit
It's already being deployed in Europe too. BYD's chargers use a battery array to reduce the instantaneous draw on the grid.
Facts_pls@reddit
All I hear is "we are backward and poor so we won't get this technology that other countries take for granted"
"Maybe one day my country will grow enough to be able to get proper electricity infrastructure..."
Funkytadualexhaust@reddit
Can you store that level of energy in batteries at the charging location? If so, would work ok for less busy stations..
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
That's what BYD is doing. Their new chargers use supercapacitors as buffers.
Beautiful_Jaguar_413@reddit
Any improvements in Watt-hours per kilograms?
Futt_Buckman@reddit
Manufacturers are focusing on a pointless part of ev architecture; anyone that needs to fill 600+ miles in 6 minutes is using their electric car wrong.
Cars spend at least 90% of their lives sitting around doing nothing, a great time for charging! (Don't @ me about apartments and street parkers, that is a known problem with any EV)
If you are on a time-critical long distance mission that requires minimal stopping, then electric was probably a bad choice.
markeydarkey2@reddit
I don't disagree with this part (we should really really really focus on improving L1/L2 access) but fast charging speeds are important too. Waiting an extra 10 minutes a half dozen times a year isn't a dealbreaker to me but it is to lots of folks who won't even consider an EV right now.
This seems like a clear example of why some people want faster charging BEVs with more range.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
"Don't confront me with the thing that demolishes my argument entirely"
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
I wouldn’t say pointless, it’s actually perfect for most Americans needing.
opkraut@reddit
Everything I need to know about this is already made clear by them giving range of a battery in distance.
This is promotional shitposting with nonsense figures, range isn't just dependent on battery, and there are so many things that affect range that saying a battery has a range is worthless at best. It's the same as saying a fuel tank (and just the fuel tank) has a range of 1000 miles.
beau_tox@reddit
This is standard since 99% of people can't translate actual capacity into any sort of real world metric. If you look at CATL's previous generations of this product, they're getting advertised range in sedans and crossover/hatchback sized vehicles. Caveat: the Chinese range standard is a lot more generous than the EPA one, so you have to account for a 1/3 reduction there though.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
It's not "more generous", just caterered to Chinese roads. China uses the same WLTP test as everyone else — only the duty cycle is changed.
beau_tox@reddit
Either way, it's not going to translate into as much real world range everywhere.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Real-world for most people reading this headline and reductively speaking, yeah. There's just nuance when we're talking about whether that means it's "more generous" — the Chinese cycle assumes you're driving on slow country roads and in big-city traffic jams. The US cycle in contrast assumes you're barreling across the I-90. The European cycle is closer to the Chinese cycle than the American one.
beau_tox@reddit
Just to be clear, I’m not saying the Chinese standard is misleading. I was just pointing out caveats for someone in the U.S. or another country where the EPA range is more accurate.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Yep, I understand — just adding extra clarification on my end.
RazingsIsNotHomeNow@reddit
It's misleading. People who don't understand batteries aren't reading press releases for batteries. Just explain it properly to the intended audience or I must assume you're hiding something.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Advertising battery packs by range is 100% normal, unfortunate as it is, because no one knows what a kWh is.
(If they advertised by kWh you'd still be complaining because kWh alone obviously also does not give you real world range.)
dumahim@reddit
This needs a "misleading" tag.
Facts_pls@reddit
I think Americans are the ones who need a misleading or brainwashed tag.
Bored__Lord@reddit
So does most chinese propaganda on this sub
Heavy_Initiative_137@reddit
It's just the undisputed global battery leader introducing their new generation of products.
Loud_Cream_4306@reddit
This subreddit shows that American people are the actual problem
thefanciestcat@reddit
FYI don't bother with the video.
I sat through two ads hoping to see what car this number was achieved in or something like that, and all I got was unrelated AI trash that could have just been normal stock footage of solar panels and windmills.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
...
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
So, that’s NCM, not LFP…
However, NCM has clearly had its future, this kind battery wouldn’t phase out quickly.
Recoil42@reddit (OP)
Ultra-fast charging updates to both Qilin (NCM) and Shenxing (LFP) were announced today.
Previous_Platform718@reddit
CATL provides batteries to BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Honda, and Volvo. They are generally trustworthy. While real-world results will differ and CATL admits this (6 minutes is likely 6-and-some-fraction, and in ideal conditions) in practice this still likely means a full charge in 10-12 minutes.