Hungary must arrest Netanyahu if he visits, Magyar says
Posted by sakezaf123@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 92 comments
Posted by sakezaf123@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 92 comments
blobofhope@reddit
Well that is a positive sign!
Let’s hope other countries like France, Germany and the rest of Europe (for those who haven’t yet confirmed they would enforce this warrant) will be able to follow and do the right thing too… and let’s hope one day he indeed is arrested, along with his accomplices.
It is time for justice to start doing its part of we want the possibility of a lasting peace.
BartD_@reddit
At least France has confirmed they wouldn’t honour the ICC arrest warrant for Netanyahu. For Germany, Scholz last year said he didn’t expect he’d face arrest if he were to visit Germany but maybe Merz has a different view on that (I doubt it).
yourbraindead@reddit
There is no world in which germany is going to arrest him. Im german, thats just not happening.
Kuro-Dev@reddit
Merz literally invited bibi before he became chancellor, which sparked a lot of protest
Chipay@reddit
Belgian prime minister Bart De Wever evaded the question on arrests and implied they just wouldn't let Netanyahu's plane land.
I think that's pretty much the realistic take, ICC arrest warrants are in effect travel bans. It's not like ICC signatories are actively going after suspects.
DefDefTotheIOF@reddit
Unless those suspects are black African warlords or other non-white people from the global south.
blobofhope@reddit
Well they joined the genocide case by South Africa… for me that saves your honour to some levels at least.. and wasn’t there a condemnation from Belgium justice on their inaction/complicity? Or was it that a trial started but hasn’t finished?
NearABE@reddit
The correct answer should be the Netanyahoo would be given the opportunity to prove his non guilt in a fair hearing. The assertion that he should serve a prison sentence is only there because it is the obvious conclusion drawn from reddit posts. Defense attorneys should be provided and the court should listen to evidence proving that he did not do any of the many things that we know he did.
All people deserve “due process”. Yes, duh, Palestinians were denied due process. Do not cheerlead for war crimes or you become one yourself.
piray003@reddit
Ok gotta point this out, you’ve got this completely backwards. The accused in a trial doesn’t have to prove their “non guilt” (otherwise known as “innocence” lol); the burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt. So he wouldn’t need to present evidence of his innocence, it’s the prosecution that needs to present evidence of his guilt.
NearABE@reddit
True, but going into the trial and getting acquitted is an opportunity to clear your name.
BartD_@reddit
The possibility of due process is the whole purpose of the arrest warrant.
Stubbs94@reddit
Scholz would probably give Netanyahu is wife and ask if he could watch. God I hate that man.
combrade@reddit
France said that as a token gesture as they were part of the Lebanon negotiations last year. It was a strategic decision.
Keep in mind that Israel has excluded France from all negotiations with Lebanon and stated they prefer to keep France away from any negotiations. It might shift given France’s close relationship with Lebanon.
BartD_@reddit
Fair enough. They are free to adjust their statement to honouring the arrest warrant.
blobofhope@reddit
One can hope Macron gets so jealous of Sanchez’s popularity growth that he choses to do the right thing next time… /s
For Germany, while I agree it is unlikely, I would happily give Merz the benefit of the doubt if it encourages him to do the right thing…
slice_of_pi@reddit
Yes, by all means, let's start arresting heads of state and diplomats from other countries when they visit. That won't end badly at all.
... where is the UN building again?
blobofhope@reddit
ICC agreement, ICC warrant… as a reminder warrants were issued against Hamas leaders at the same time, should these not have been enforced if they had crossed European airspace?
So, just to clarify is your take: let’s ignore international law and war crimes altogether?
GothicGolem29@reddit
They only issued one warrant for Hamas from what I can find and it was for a guy assassinated in 2024
blobofhope@reddit
Two others were requested but I think they died before and the request was withdrawn, with their names you should be able to check.
Below is the full request
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state
GothicGolem29@reddit
Ok fair enough then
adminofreditt@reddit
Warrants were issued against hamas leaders after their deaths...
blobofhope@reddit
For Mohammed Deif the warrant was requested before his death in May 2024, it was issued after his death but before the ICC had sufficient evidence of his death to vacate the warrant which they did at the start of 2025..
slice_of_pi@reddit
Ignore "laws" derived from treaties we didn't sign?
I'm okay with that.
BartD_@reddit
Those aren’t considered the same by most of the EU establishment. They’ll arrest anyone linked to a side opposing Israel in a heartbeat.
Poopbutt_Maximum@reddit
When they have an arrest warrant issued against them by the ICC, as Netanyahu does, yes. Otherwise what you are sarcastically implying is that certain people are above the law and war crimes should no longer be prosecuted, which sets a far worse precedent than whatever you’re worried will happen.
slice_of_pi@reddit
What "law"?
Israel isn't a signatory to the treaty establishing the ICC. Neither is the US.
I mean, you could kick that off, but I don't think you'll like the result.
Poopbutt_Maximum@reddit
Are you implying that the average American citizen would agree to go to war against European countries for Netanyahu? Lmao
slice_of_pi@reddit
Noooo...
I'm saying if you start arresting foreign leaders or diplomats from countries you don't like when they step foot in your country, you may not like how that turns out. Diplomatic rules aren't just a matter of convenience, they're the foundation of international relations.
Are you sure you want that?
Poopbutt_Maximum@reddit
Extremely roundabout way of saying “don’t prosecute war crimes” then. It’s not about “countries you don’t like,” it’s about accountability.
Yes, most normal people do.
slice_of_pi@reddit
So you'd be 100% okay with establishing a norm that, say, a US president could just grab diplomats or heads of state visiting New York because a court we control says it's okay.
Are you really really sure you want to hand that over to an Administration that may decide it wants something of yours and has a tame court that'll say it's okay?
Poopbutt_Maximum@reddit
So don’t prosecute war crimes because you’re afraid of Donald Trump? Liberals have given far too much leeway to this administration out of fear of how they might retaliate. It’s well past time for people to actually stand for something.
slice_of_pi@reddit
Hardly. I said nothing if Trump specifically - I can easily see another President following him using the same authority he's exercised. Lots of Trump's actions rest on authority asserted by predecessors, and whoever follows him will be no different.
But precedents are a thing. Set that stage once, and you open the door for lots of things you probably don't want.
blobofhope@reddit
The ICC isn’t “any court (you) control”…
So what is your acceptable solution? Because the two countries you defend are starting wars and attacking other countries instead of using the justice system and respecting international law…
slice_of_pi@reddit
You're operating under the flawed assumption that "international law" is a thing. It's not, unless everybody agrees it is, and even some of your primary signatories don't agree on that. Why on earth should two countries that haven't signed the treaties to begin with respect the rules it created?
It's fundamentally the same thing. You're from Europe. A random federal court in the US issuing a decision on something only carries the weight of whether you decide to pay attention to what that court says or not, and by extension, the only thing you need to be concerned about is how it's going to interact with the respective governments involved. By the same token, Israel has no incentive to follow rules they didn't agree to. The ICC has authority only because its signatories decided it does.
On the other hand...diplomats and sovereign countries' leaders enjoy diplomatic status when they travel in an official capacity. This is the foundation of literally all diplomacy. Deciding that doesn't apply because of rules only one side has decided are valid is dangerous, and i mean that in the fully realized sense of, "This is literally why wars start."
blobofhope@reddit
So, as per your arguments, someone could go to the US and break the law as much as they want, as long as in their home country that is legal?
Is that what you are trying to argue?
slice_of_pi@reddit
...no. Not even remotely.
blobofhope@reddit
Well the state of Palestine accepts the ICC jurisdiction, the crimes were committed in Palestine, they therefore fall under the ICC’s jurisdiction…. Not sure how this doesn’t work for you?
slice_of_pi@reddit
Again, you're operating under the assumption that I recognize the ICC has any jurisdiction. I don't. Neither does Israel. For that matter, many of the signatories to the ICC have also said the court is exceeding its authority. Shouting, "INTERNATIONAL LAW" is not some shibboleth that magically grants authority.
blobofhope@reddit
So someone could go to the US and commit crimes as long as they say they don’t recognise the justice system has any jurisdiction over them?
Look at how much energy you are putting to try and create a technicality when the real question is crimes are committed justice should do its job. I understand you might not like it, but thankfully not everyone in the world agrees with your solutions… which considering you have neglected to answer I could assume is more war crimes and violence?
The ICC has reviewed Israel’s claim that the ICC doesn’t have jurisdiction, and as the crimes were committed in Palestine (and therefore not in Israel) concluded they do have jurisdiction.
No point going further if you are not willing to consider facts in good faith, thankfully I doubt the justice system depends on your say-so…
slice_of_pi@reddit
There is a significant and substantive difference between national sovereign laws and international treaties creating agreements between nations. The ICC is the latter, not a superior form of the prior.
blobofhope@reddit
Thankfully, you are not in charge of the ICC and they are in a position to act on crimes committed in this case. Even if you don’t like it…
WestcoastAlex@reddit
bong!! you lose.
sorry your argument was so crap you had to write a long diatribe on why international law isnt
WestcoastAlex@reddit
they arendowngradung the charges to 'countries you dont like' on purpose as a strawman
there is no discussion here about arresting leaders of countries you "dont like" .. its specific leaders with arrest warrents based on i nternational laws adjudicated by international court
WestcoastAlex@reddit
holey shit are you dumb
crimes against a signatory also count
blobofhope@reddit
Well I believe Palestine is… thankfully them and 124 other states consider justice is better than wars…
So crimes committed in Palestine (including east Jerusalem) are in the ICC’s jurisdiction.
Catalani@reddit
"We'll invade Europe to protect the war criminal!" is not the flex you think it is.
SpinningHead@reddit
Protecting war criminals is certainly a choice.
Chipay@reddit
As opposed to assassination and kidnapping like to US? Where is the UN building again?
What's the alternative to trying someone in court for crimes against humanity?
Shadowcat1606@reddit
Germany definitely won't. Not under our current leadership and honestly, i kinda doubt it'd happen even if we had a very left leaning government.
blobofhope@reddit
I don’t understand that to be honest, it forces us all to remain supporters.. Not denying the way the EU works but this in this case I really don’t get it.
And now there is a case at the ICJ against Germany… not sure if it will be proven, but still.. do people talk about that in general?
Shadowcat1606@reddit
The thing is that in regards to Isreal, Germany is, of course, in a bit of an awkward position due to its past.
And i get that... in theory. I do understand why Germany and german politicians are hesitant to speak out against Israel in a way that could be construed as arguing against the national security interest of Israel. And i also agree that, to a degree, Germany has a responsibility to assist Israel, but especially the jewish people (and no, that's not the same thing).
I personally do think, however, that the often cited german "Staatsräson" lacks a complexity it really needs in times like this and must not serve as a carte blanche for the israeli government to do as they please with our leaders having to stand idly by and even assist Israel in commiting horrible atrocities, just so we can feel like we atone for the atrocities commited by the Nazis in our own past.
Another issue is, of course, that our current Chancellor is a spineless coward who is heavily right-leaning and mistakes kissing the ass of various right-wing autocrats for diplomacy, especially if the asses in question are attached to the leaders of countries who would, under normal circumstances, historically be political and ideological allies of Germany.
blobofhope@reddit
Yes, I accept the “historical guilt”, and I accept that isn’t something I can really understand..
What I struggle with is the willingness to look past the horror, though to be honest they are not the only country doing it. I don’t know I guess in a way I hope it would make all countries that cooperated in one way or another at the time even more weary of the situation…
Lowered12@reddit
This is not positive sign at all becaues its bullshit , he only said that to make him more popular among people who oppose Israel actions.
Literally one of the first things he did after elections is invite Netanyahu to Budapest to “further strengthen the close ties between Israel and Hungary.” and Netanyahu agreed to it.
The positive sign is that Spain , Slovakia and Ireland (of course without Hungary) want to suspend the EU association agreement with Israel but sadly It seems like they won't achieve anything because everyone has to agree , Germany and Italy already said they will not agree to this.
Also there is Citizens' Initiative wanting the same thing and they already managed to get over 1 million votes
blobofhope@reddit
I didn’t know about this call to BN, do you have a source?
It is still good any symbolic gestures towards justice and away from war is good….
For the european initiative:
Yes! Ya! Да! Ναι! Si! Oui! ….
Every European citizen in age to vote can sign it. You can also check how many have signed it in your country/countries to see if it has been shared a lot and share it far and wide!
Lowered12@reddit
from Jerusalem post
hungarian conservative
Hungary held elections on 12th and the call took plane on 15th it took him only 3 days to invite Netanyahu to hungary.
blobofhope@reddit
Well that’s not great.. at all. I was surprised, but fingers crossed, be it for the wrong reasons he will keep his word. I guess we will find out at the ceremony they are referring to..
sakezaf123@reddit (OP)
The other commenter is leaving out quite a bit of information. Magyar's first 3 days after election were spent taking calls from leaders of countries hungary has at least close relations with, and invited all of them to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Hungary '56 revolution in budapest. Netanyahu was on the last day, which is diplomatically significant, especially with Hungary up until now being Israel's biggest ally in the EU, due to Orbàn being extremely pro Israel, going as far as to veto any EU resolution that would negatively affect Israel. But the vloseness initially came from Hungary having a very large jewish minority, altough notably a decent amount of them also don't support what Israel is doing. Anyway, the content of the interview this article is relying on is after these calls, and Magyar correcting himself, that while he did invite Netanyahu along with every other leader he spoke to (a decent amount of them are politically opposed to him, and he has outstanding public grievances against people like Fico.) he clarified in this interview, that he fully intended to comply with the ICC warrant if Netanyahu came.
blobofhope@reddit
Thanks! I am disappointed on Italy, not that I believe in her, but after she suspended that other agreement I thought she would be likely to support the initiative..
Afferbeck_@reddit
It would be the funniest possible thing if he only invited him to arrest him. Every country should do this until it happens.
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Simple isn't it? And when it comes to Putin, everyone magically understands this. But when it comes to Netanyahu, countries like Germany, Poland or Italy proudly shout that they won't respect the ICC warrant. At the very least, the whole situation around Israel has shown just how morally bankrupt many European governments are.
ledankmememaster@reddit
Isn’t that last argument mood considering the fact that you’re supposed to arrest Netanyahu? It’s just the countries leaders instead of the “tools” fault.
blackhawkup357@reddit
No matter how much they bluster, I have severe doubts that the Euros are stupid enough to arrest Putin were he to force the issue with a diplomatic visit or something. That said, maybe the Baltics would do it
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Why not? It's not like Russia can do anything about it
Awdrgyjilpnj@reddit
Poke the bear I dare you. FAFO. Russia tolerates the hipocrysi from Europe only as long as it doesn’t overtly discriminate against Russia (more than now). If westen imperialists think they have any moral highground against Russian than they are badly mistaken
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Again, what is Russia going to do? They haven't been able to beat up Ukraine, what do you think is going to happen against Europe?
Awdrgyjilpnj@reddit
Russia could destroy Ukraine and Europe in minutes if they so desired.
RansomXenom@reddit
Ah yes, extremely humanely.
We finally got the Russia version of the israeli "most moral army" argument,
haggerton@reddit
Someone's bad at math, eh?
Go look up how many civilians died in Ukraine conflict, then compare it to any modern conflict.
It's objectively true that this war is cleaner than all the others.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Humane armies don't conduct drone safaris and then publish the videos online.
RansomXenom@reddit
Someone's bad at reading and turns to whataboutism, eh?
The comment I replied to made the claim that Russia hasn't won yet because they're conducting themselves humanely. I replied with an example to the contrary; an army acting humanely would very obviously never allow these types of atrocities, or would severely punish the perpetrators and publicly apologize for their actions instead of denying their existance or pretending they're some false flag operation.
What Israel is doing or not doing is completely irrelevant, because Israel being more destructive in their own war does not make Russia good.
haggerton@reddit
Generalization makes you a bigot, FYI.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You honestly think they'll martyr themselves for Putin?
onarainyafternoon@reddit
You're arguing with a troll or a tankie. I would save your breath.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
I can take a couple minutes out of my day to push back against such garbage
onarainyafternoon@reddit
This is the funniest comment I've ever read in my life
MirTrudMay@reddit
Vancouver and Toronto are not even 40% canadian right now and nobody did anything about it but canadians are concerned about lisichansk and severodonetsk. insane.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Of course the tankie has no idea what a 'Canadian' is
blackhawkup357@reddit
They could escalate significantly in Ukraine and worst case scenario go nuclear. Would they? Maybe maybe not, do you want to take that risk? Remember that Putin himself is a moderate relative to many in the Russian political sphere.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Lol, 'escalate significantly in Ukraine'... with what?
And nukes? please. You think the remaining folks in Russia, now suddenly finding themselves out from under Putin, are going to risk the total destruction of their country to save him?
blackhawkup357@reddit
They could scale up missile bombardment, go after more "dual-use" infrastructure like power stations, etc. Sky is the limit. Both Ukraine and Russia have not reached anywhere close to the top of the escalation ladder and hopefully things stay that way.
Yes. Capture the head of a nuclear nation and nukes will immediately be on the table. And once again, Putin is a moderate in Russian politics both military wise and in his stance towards the west. Even beyond his popularity with the common people, which by the way is quite high, the political class is not going to celebrate the west after "being out from under him" when many are harder line than him. Please learn about the facts at hand before you come at me with such a ridiculous tone.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Maybe don't suggest such ludicrous things like 'they could scale up missile bombardment' as if they aren't doing all they can do to so already.
And what, attacking Ukraine harder is going to convince Europe to turn him over? Really?
blackhawkup357@reddit
You think the current missile rate is their max sustainable sortie generation? They're conserving fires so they can maintain fire rates for the long term. Not sure how long exactly but they certainly aren't concerned about running out of hardware there. They could up their sortie generation significantly in the near term at the cost of long term sustainability. You're also completely missing the point. The idea is not to get Putin back specifically in this scenario. The idea is that taking your country's leader is an action that demands immediate retaliation just as much as an invasion would. It doesn't matter who's doing it to who, it's a direct threat to national sovereignty and must be treated as such or that sovereignty will evaporate rapidly. I would go so far as to say taking a nuclear head of state would necessitate a nuclear response. It's literally what nukes are for.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
'Taking action' and failing utterly is worse than not taking action at all.
PolyUre@reddit
Except Mongolia, who didn't arrest Putin when he visited.
Catalani@reddit
Nuclear levels of schadenfreude
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
It would be, if it weren't for the fact that nothing forces ICC members to execute warrants. It's all by choice. So counties can be as hypocritical as the want without any consequences. That's why they're not afraid to just openly say it.
3nterShift@reddit
I do not like conservative liberals but rejecting Israel and Netanyahu is my basic litmus test for morality. It signals that a politician cares about values beyond the preservation of the status quo and political convenience. Respect to Magyar and may Hungary face better days ahead.
sakezaf123@reddit (OP)
It's a bit weird, because while Magyar is pretty conservative, his program, and their party politicians were on the progressive side, especially for hungary. But among other things, he proposed a 1% wealth tax on billionaires, and the key things in his platform were better and better funded education, better funded healthcare, and fixing the housing crisis through state-funded housing programs, which a couple of cities in hungary were already trialing to great success. They basically rent out the flats for a very reasonable sum, and all of that money goes to a savings account, so that people can spend it on a house/flat when they move out.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
He's a European conservative, not an anglo-american free market fundamentalist conservative. This is par for the course
sakezaf123@reddit (OP)
Sure, but like a european conservative from the 2000's.
Level_Hour6480@reddit
He's what US conservatives were before Reagan: Proceduralist and rule-abiding. Lawful Neutral.
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