Can Silver Supply Keep Up with the Energy Transition and AI centers?
Posted by raw-science@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 23 comments
I often hear people say, “The sun is a free resource; once the solar panels are installed, you have an infinite supply of energy.” True! I completely agree. But. There’s always a “but.” To actually install those solar panels, you need other resources that are materials, that depend on supply chains, that can become scarce, and that are subject to geopolitical challenges.
I’ve been researching the material aspects of the energy transition for some time now, and here I’ll use silver as an example. We’re used to thinking of silver as a precious metal for jewelry, cutlery, and photography. But over the past decade, it has quietly become an indispensable structural element for the development of clean energy.
Every silicon solar cell uses silver paste to form the electrical contacts that collect electrons from sunlight. The combination of conductivity, corrosion resistance, and long-term stability that silver offers is truly difficult to replicate. So, although manufacturers have worked hard to reduce the amount of silver per watt... and have done so impressively (!), dropping from about 65 mg/W to less than 20 mg/W, solar energy continues to grow faster than these technological improvements. According to the Silver Institute, the photovoltaic industry used approximately 200 million ounces of silver in 2024, and this already represents about a quarter of all silver mined globally that year.
Some studies actually reveal that if a net-zero policy is followed, solar panel production could reach a silver demand in 2040 equal to silver production. I am certain that new technologies will be introduced, but that does not mean we should be blind to the facts.
Moving beyond solar panels, I’d like to mention electric cars. Although the amount of silver used in each is truly minimal (25–50 grams of silver per vehicle, compared to 15–28 grams in a combustion-engine car), the 17 million electric vehicles sold in 2024 translate those grams into hundreds of tons of silver (IEA data).
The other side of the coin is the supply of silver. It is well known that silver is primarily a byproduct extracted from lead, zinc, and copper mines. There are very few “silver mines,” so silver production cannot simply be increased just because demand is growing. Keep in mind that the market has been in deficit for three consecutive years.
This doesn’t mean that the energy transition is condemned to failure or that solar energy is a bad idea. But I do want to highlight something worth keeping in mind: electrification doesn’t eliminate our dependence on resources; it simply restructures it. The pressure basicalyl goes from fuels to metals, from oil fields to mining supply chains. And silver is just one example: copper, rare earths, cobalt(!), lithium... all of them play a role in the electrification that we should be aware of. And in this analysis, I wasn't focusing on the demand for future AI centers; honestly, I'm curious to see what the supply of silver will look like in a few years.
If you’d like to see the full analysis and refs, just take a look at raw-science.org (in spanish)
jbond23@reddit
If the pollution constraints don't get us, the resource constraints will.
And vice versa.
AbominableGoMan@reddit
Silver is also a large component of most solid-state battery designs. Although they've been just around the corner for years now, it really does seem like there are companies bringing these to manufacturing soon. Which would be a good thing, because in addition to having double the energy density of lithium ion batteries, they charge faster and are easier to recycle. It could be the thing that finally edges out internal combustion engines in cars.
But as we all know, magically replacing every single personal vehicle on the planet overnight with an electric car still leaves us with seriously intractable problems and a maintenance of road networks that is incompatible with net zero.
raw-science@reddit (OP)
Solid-state is definitely promising. But depending on the design, the material mix can vary a lot... which brings it back to the same question: things can work at pilot or lab scale, but what happens when you try to scale them globally?
I recently read a book that made me think about this: the current fossil-based energy system took decades to build. Trying to transform something that complex in one or two decades is a very different challenge.
AbominableGoMan@reddit
Imagining the infrastructure investment required to electrify our civilization even as a 1:1 substitution is mind-boggling. Especially by 2050. And yet, to hit any climate targets, we also have to imagine building and powering a system to capture CO2, which would again have to be at least as large and energy intensive as current fossil fuel procurement.
There's always buzz about different types of batteries. Carbon super-capacitors, organic redox flow, lithium ceramics. I've heard some buzz, not for the first time, about samsung bringing theirs to production at the end of this year. Searching for 'samsung battery silver' seems to bring up a lot of silverbug sites though.
sg_plumber@reddit
We didn't have many working examples the first time.
The second time around, we're engineering the transformation, using much more readily available resources.
NearABE@reddit
The electric cars are already superior. We suffer from the wrong infrastructure and inertia.
Obvious_Pattern_3993@reddit
First of all, there's no point in time when we built and installed enough solar panels, and we're done, forever happiness.
The electricity demand constantly grows. \~3% per year.
For the first glance, it does not seem too much, but if you calculate it, at this pace, electricity demand doubles every \~20 years. Which means that in every 20 year period, we have to manufacture and install the same amount of solar panels we totally built and installed before.
E.g. lets say we built and installed X solar panels until 2000.
From 2000 to 2020 we have to do the same, another X solar panels, so now we have 2X solar panels.
Between 2020 and 2040 we have to install the double of that, another, new 2X solar panels, now we have 4X solar panelns.
Between 2040 and 2060 we have to install the double of that, another, new 4X solar panels, now we a total of 8X solar panels.
At that pace, we will run out of the required materials pretty quickly.
Beyond that, solar panels are still not an infinite energy supply, the whole hypotethical solar infrastructure requires a lot a maintenance, panels degrade over time, they must be kept clean of dust, show, etc, fuseboxes, wires, transformers, etcetcetc., just as the amount of solar panels grow exponentially, so the required maintenance efforts grow exponentially.
Does not matter what we do, whatever fancy new technology we use, sooner or later we must give the constant growth.
Extreme-Homework-697@reddit
You expressed what I wanted to say. Truly I'm baffled by those who don't believe in overpopulation and overconsumption.
I'm all for sustainability, and that means low population and low consumption, which requires Epicurean and Michelstaedterian discipline, but these people are suffering from utopian solarpunk delusion. They watched too many scifi stuff and completely forgot what realm of reality they're living in.
"We're not overpopulated" When we run of habitable space, which we seflishly take from other animals, extinguishing them in the process, where do you think we're gonna house people? In the desert? Just a whole sea of high-rise apartments and farms?
"Overconsumption is a first-world problem" So you want everyone to live in poverty like third world countries, which are deliberately ruined by first world countries? But if everyone is "developed", do you not realize that just magnifies the consumption?
When we've extracted all the material to create stuff for everyone, where else do you think we're gonna extract material to create more stuff, for more hypothetical people you delusionally think this spinning rock can sustain? You think metal grow on trees? Even trees take at least 10 years to even be large enough to chop down. Imagine having 10+ billions people around.
ttystikk@reddit
The rate of growth of humanity is slowing and expectations are that well reach a maximum of 9 billion and a slow rebound in population thereafter.
Not sure how accurate that is.
Obvious_Pattern_3993@reddit
The population growth is indeed slowing, but electricity demand is not, and I'm sure it wont slow down.
In the second half of the 20th century, we basically wired everybody into the grid, everybody got their fridge, electric lighting, TV, washing machine, etc. It was a pretty convenient life, we could stop there, but instead, we invented new ways of using new electricity, computers, playstations, more fun and convenient life, but we still did not stop, came the internet connection and smart phones for everyone, nowadays everybody is hooked on AI, and so on, we can always find new things to spend energy on.
We simply can't say: it's enough.
And that's why the collapse is inevitable.
ttystikk@reddit
The key is to make energy generation as free from environmental damage as possible and nothing comes closer to that ideal than solar PV and wind. These are also the cheapest energy generation so they're adoption is both environmentally responsible and affordable.
ImportantCountry50@reddit
Silver is the least of your worries. There have been plenty of analyses of the ridiculous amounts of energy and resources needed for even just one wind or solar farm. Then there's the miles of copper for transmission lines. Ugh! I could go on and on.
I concluded years ago that the whole so-called "renewable" thing must by a total snow job by the fossil fuel industry itself. It makes perfect sense: If you don't believe in climate change then you buy big trucks, "roll coal" on cyclists and pedestrians, and "drill baby drill". If you do believe in climate change then you squawk the word "transition" like a trained parrot and burn EVEN MORE fossil fuels building out all those brain-dead "renewable" boondoggles. Either way they make mega-bucks and everyone else is left holding the bag.
That's why I get a little smile on my face when I hear about all those new "giant" hailstorms that are popping up all over the world. Hailstones the size of baseballs! Kinda hard to pull a "transition" out of your hat when your infrastructure gets routinely destroyed by severe weather. Oops!
NearABE@reddit
Photovoltaic cells recover the energy invested into them in about 1 year.
Check the commentary in r/solaramerica, r/renewables, or r/solar. The problem homeowners face is that the installation costs 5 times as much as the panels. You could order a crate on the internet for $5k and they are the exact same panels that an electrician offered to install for $25k. The electrician would have ordered the same crate and shipped it to your house. With the stack sitting right there the same contractor would offer to put them on the roof for $20k. He might then ask if you want to order the battery system from the same website or have him order them to be shipped direct to your house.
raw-science@reddit (OP)
I get your point, and silver is just one "tiny" example. I deal with both pro- and anti-renewable takes all the time, and I try to stick to one idea: just being realistic that every energy system has material and system constraints.
Ironically, that gets me labeled “anti” by one side and “pro” by the other.
pantsopticon88@reddit
"the only sustainable level of technology is the stone age"
Derick Jenson
NearABE@reddit
The technology to displace silver in photovoltaic panels already existed a few years ago. The copper alternative decreases panel efficiency by 40%. That means, for example, a silicon cell that otherwise converts 25% of sunlight power to electric power would convert only 15% of the Sun’s power. In the meantime researchers have found ways to bypass the problems. Like many technologies the one we here about most (standard silicon PV in this case) is just dominating because they are too cheap.
You say it is only utilizing 25% of the silver. The problem here is that they should be getting a move in it. Silicon panels obviously should be produces 4x as fast. Long term it is fine, recycle all the old or broken panels. It is also not really a problem for humanity if silver drives the price of zinc and lead rather than vis-versa. Lead sulfide batteries are extremely simple lead gets cheap enough I can hoard that for you. Zinc-air batteries are also technology not quite getting implemented. I would have to do some research to see if cost of zinc is a non-trivial factor.
There are numerous alternatives to silicon photovoltaics. So once/if silicon maxes out on silver at 4x today’s rate the photovoltaic industry can just keep on ramping.
Meanwhile, Chinese photovoltaic manufacturers are facing bankruptcy. No seriously look it up. They kept falling in price and the producers just keep expanding production. It is every other aspect of installing PV that is failing to keep up. Houses need inverters and controllers. A real human still has to climb a roof and run wires. On the grid scale you also need inverters as well as transformers on both ends.
We have fundamental problems in the economy at large. The flaw is not in the PV cell technology at all. They are a case example of a hoped for breakthrough miracle technology actually happening. Then it just seams to not matter and it even crushes the investors who bought in correctly.
Oil companies will now start using photovoltaic power to extract and refine more gasoline. They are still building more gas turbines right along with the photovoltaics. AI data centers are learning how to waste energy making payments for negotiating contracts with themselves.
DoggedDreamer2@reddit
They tell you to get solar panels and then they block the sun! An answer would be to think smarter instead of greed being the motivated. For instance, in Finland they put data centers underground, they use water which recycles the system. The hot water is sent to neighboring communities as a heat source and then comes back cold for the purpose of the data center. I know we could come up with ideas such as these...but you may risk "suicide."🫠
MTLHABSCANADIENS@reddit
This is why “green energy” is not a solution: it does not fix the fundamental issue of overconsumption and in fact makes it worse cause now people feel good about their over consuming.
To avoid collapse we must decrease production and consumption, and that which we do consume must be produced as locally as possible. Which the greedy mfers who run the show will never accept, so collapse is inevitable. There is no solution while greedy people hold power.
True_Guava3247@reddit
Greed is universal. If you killed all the greedy people in power they would be replaced by different, greedy people. If you forced every corporate board to be populated in the majority via lottery you would be replacing greedy people with other, also greedy people.
We will have to find a way to make it work with the greed. Altruism cannot solve this problem because people are, on the whole, greedy as shit.
audioen@reddit
One thing you don't mention is that Silver is already a post-peak resource. https://coringmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/image-17.png
One might think that the answer to your question was settled years ago, with a no.
After_Resource5224@reddit
First time huh?
pantsopticon88@reddit
Short answer...no
Long answer... Still no
Slamtilt_Windmills@reddit
Full answer...no, and it got worse while I explained it