It Was on Your Table Every Morning Growing Up. It’s Dying Before Our Eyes. No One Wants to Face It.

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UND_mtnman@reddit

Makes sense why the OJ I got from a restaurant the other day was 100% juice...but not 100% Orange Juice.

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MuscaMurum@reddit

I once asked a waitress if their orange juice was fresh squeezed. She unironically said, "Yes! Says so on the carton!"

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ILiekBook@reddit

That was her way of letting you know without saying it wasn't fresh

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MuscaMurum@reddit

You'd think so, but I think she was honestly just that naive.

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MannyDantyla@reddit

This sounds like a skit from Portlandia

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We need to get back to the old biometrician methodology of horizontal breeding methods. Single gene resistance to environmental or pest pressure found in the Mendelian methodology tends to end like this story about Florida oranges. Its the silver bullet idealogy that we can find a final solution to breeding and not to need to continue to improve the overall genetics of crops.

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Eeny009@reddit

Could you give me an overview of the concepts you mentioned? I'm very interested but lack background.

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RockTheGrock@reddit

A great book to read that talks about these concepts is Return to Resistance by Raoul Robinson. I have read my copy so much the spine is splitting.

A simple analogy the brook proposes is by focusing on single gene editing (Mendel) it is like making a door with a single lock that pests need to bypass to make the crop lose its resistance. On the other hand the old biometrician school builds doors with multiple locks that if kept up with make crops much more resistance over time.

One thing I liked about the book was Robinsons view that both are useful approaches. The issue we face is the over reliance and arrogance of thinking the single gene method is enough and we pull out the victory banners soon as it is solved in the short term. The book was written in 95 so gmo crops were just hitting the scene. It allowed biotechnology companies to patent gm crops for profit purposes which created an incentive for them to keep agriculture coming back soon as that one lock gets picked and prohibited population breeding (legally and biologically) to create the multi lock door.

He goes over the history of the two fields and talked about multiple historical real world examples of plant diseases that afflicted whole crops like the potato famine in europe. That was based on a single cultivar making it very susceptible when fungus started infecting it all in mass.

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Eeny009@reddit

Thank you for the explanation! I found a copy of the book and will give it a try. Your analogy also reminded me of the increasing resistance of bacteria to antibiotics, which is partly linked to using a single drug, leaving a few resistant bacteria alive and able to spread.

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ImDoneWithTheBS@reddit

Who could’ve thought planting monocultures of an Asian fruit while destroying the local ecosystem would have disastrous consequences

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griphookk@reddit

None of that is really relevant. The main issue is the asian citrus psyllid.

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Neither_Audience_380@reddit

This person comment and your response if a perfect encapsulation of the larger problem

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melympia@reddit

You mean humans fucking around with nature and eventually finding out why they shouldn't have? This looks suspiciously like the late FO stage of it.

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Jane_the_doe@reddit

It's quite ironic really. Probably the loveliest bit of this entire fire.

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LastresortLastretort@reddit

... God damn we are so fucked.

You are the representation of why.

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justtinyquestions@reddit

You don’t think monoculture plays a role in its spread?

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bigpony@reddit

They said in the article over glyphosphate spraying made then more susceptible.

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WarrantinaVoid@reddit

You do realize that with varying genetics they'd have varying resistances? Genetics at scale tends to solve these problems.

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ItsAllAboutThatDirt@reddit

Not to mention just planting things like pollinator strips and other habitat/food for predators. Increasing biodiversity around the trees shows a lesser level of infection.

This now has to be combined with new tree varieties that have been bred with a few older species that are more resistant to the spread, but if those conditions were implemented early on then we may never have gotten to this point.

Plus the increased strength and resistance in more regeneratively grown groves.

But it's hard to make a bet on planting all the new varieties en-mass and hoping it will all hold up years down the road. This year was an extremely freak freeze though. Like further south not since 2015 and then the 80s or something prior to that. Changed everyone's risk profile even though odds are it won't happen again.

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VariousFalcon7466@reddit

Another reason to hate round-up

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ItsAllAboutThatDirt@reddit

Which came about with such a foothold because of - wait for it - monocultures and a lack of varying genetics, combined with how it spreads.

Even with just more variety in regeneratively grown fields shows a decrease in prevalence. Planting to attract more predators.

Instead we wiped everything else out and planted an all-you-can-eat buffet that was kept under control only by poisons.

Planting monocultures and destroying the local ecosystem is directly relevant.

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Big_Fortune_4574@reddit

Its extremely relevant to the vulnerability of the trees

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pandershrek@reddit

That wasn't really the downfall?

In fact it was the result of China's predator evolution 3 different times.

If anything this is making an extreme example of how monocultures need to be protected and insulated at all costs if we're going to construct entire industries upon them.

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ImDoneWithTheBS@reddit

Absolutely false, oranges in Asia were hybridized by humans from a parent citrus fruit over thousands of years. This preserves genetic diversity while selecting for traits that are preferable to us over a long timeline.

The oranges in Florida are essentially clones of one another not even grown from seed. Making diseases like this one inevitable.

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ObjectiveDark40@reddit

Article doesn't mention California,which produces more oranges than Florida...is California not impacted?

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Boring-Charity9324@reddit

California knee this problem was coming and took the necessary measures to prevent it. Florida didn't.

This isn't really an overall issue to orange production and citrus production. California is more than capable of making up for what the loss of Florida will do. It's a lesson in crop management, monocultures, and GMOs.

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baardvark@reddit

What did California do?

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Sarchee@reddit

The psyllid is gaining a foothold in CA.

Make no mistake, the psyllid is in CA and there are essentially no control measures that will stop its spread.

Also know, this affects a huge number of citrus varieties and the incredible number of unmanaged backyard citrus trees in CA will ensure that this disease will spread.

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MuscaMurum@reddit

I'm looking out my balcony at a burgeoning orange tree in the alley of an apartment complex here in Hollywood. Citrus grows like weeds here.

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Wers81@reddit

It feels like everyone has lemon & oranges in their backyard.

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Collapse_is_underway@reddit

Monocultures with the haber-bosch process products usage is among the worst shit we ever did as a civilization.

Poisoning the topsoil, water cycle and most complex lifeforms with non-biodegradable molecules while letting the people that manufactured it, made shitload of money from it and then used part of this money to lobby and do massive marketing campaign about "it's not that bad, we're not sure 100% it's bad, it's something else, etc.".

And you still see people saying the opposite, as if the fact we managed to go from 1 billions to 8+ in a century is some kind of "success".

We did the same as any kind of species left alone on an island with no predators but with much more damages : we harvested all the good and easy stuff, now we're scrapping for less easily recoverable stuff and we're due to go back to a much, much smaller population.

And most people will keep believing mainstream economists that keep pretending that we're going to keep growing everything we mine or harvest, forever, as if that was some kind of physical law.

Pure and unbridled madness.

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Puzzleheaded-Ad7606@reddit

It's a good thing the world is having less children.

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faco_fuesday@reddit

Yeah I don't understand why people think that's a bad thing.

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Azurerex@reddit

It's not so much that there's fewer people, it's that people are older.

Right now our FICA taxes are paying for today's retirees, and retirement programs have long term solvency ckncerns. A growing portion of our workforce is dedicated to the medical industry and elder care.

What happens when most of our working age population is taxed to the bone to pay for old people to sit around and watch TV? What happens when everyone has to care for elderly relatives at the expense of their own kids, or when the entire workforce is busy changing bedpans?

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guaranteedsafe@reddit

Economists say the world economy will get wrecked with a declining population (so come up with a new system, with UBI??) and sociologists say there won’t be enough care for the boomers and Gen X as they’re dying out (maybe should’ve thought of how we’d handle nursing and hospice care with more trained and highly paid medical/nursing/assistance care decades before being in the middle of them all dying at once?) All of this sounds like it should have the response of how your lack of preparation doesn’t constitute an emergency on my part.

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syynapt1k@reddit

Capitalists think it's a bad thing.

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Daxx22@reddit

gif

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FriendshipIntrepid91@reddit

Is that true? Thought the birth rate for the world was still increasing.

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atreides_hyperion@reddit

It's increasing mostly in Africa I think, but everywhere else has like plateaued or is declining slowly. I'm pretty sure our population is still net increasing though. But the fact is no one knows for sure. Some people have argued that we have actually undercounted the population by a great deal because of poor accuracy in developing countries.

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kantmeout@reddit

No, the birth rate peaked awhile back and have been steadily declining. Population growth is still positive, but we're hovering just above replacement level.

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NetflakesC@reddit

Global population is still growing, but slowing toward peak and then will decline. A sample source: https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/population but if you search it up there are dozens of other orgs/governments/NGOs with the same predictions and data to back the premise. Low fertility and people opting out of having big families or families at all it seems.

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TheSamurabbi@reddit

Not in the more developed countries.

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03263@reddit

as if the fact we managed to go from 1 billions to 8+ in a century is some kind of "success".

Wonder if it will drop just as quickly...

Man's triumph over nature, inevitably short-lived.

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K8b6@reddit

Give women complete control over when and if they have children, and within a couple generations we'll see a natural and non-violent population levelling

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No-Cover4993@reddit

And it's happening on a continent-wide scale. This isn't limited to oranges in Florida. Millions of natural fruit-bearing trees like wild plum, persimmon, elderberries, etc, in rural America have succembed to herbcide drift if they aren't already destroyed by expanding corporate farms removing windbreaks and shelter belts.

Dicamba and 2,4-D drift from soybeans and corn have been causing widespread damage to millions of acres of land in the margins of agriculture. Forests, grasslands, orchards, vineyards, small family farms. Diacamba literally drifts for miles, affecting them all. Even if trees dont die immediately, it weakens them and makes them more susceptible to pests and disease.

Herbicide drift is causing a long, slow decline of forest health and reducing high quality Oak stands. Drought from climate change is also hammering native Oak trees. People should prepare for Oak losses in the near future and protect their trees.

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PatDar@reddit

We learn the idea in ecology called carrying capacity. Funny things happen to species when they exceed their carrying capacity. Weve blown past ours at the detriment of literally all of Nature. It will catch up to us, one way or another, and it won't be pretty.

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Azurerex@reddit

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing this.

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Solo_Camping_Girl@reddit

I've never even tasted freshly-squeezed OJ in my life, it's always already processed and packed. I think I might've missed out on something good.

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chicagotodetroit@reddit (OP)

You did miss out unfortunately. It was delicious!

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Solo_Camping_Girl@reddit

The only US juice brands we have in my country are Minute Maid and Sunkist. How does the OG OJ taste compared to the packaged ones? I'm from the tropics, so we don't grow oranges here.

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whatdahelldamnguy@reddit

I remember as a kid in the 80’s visiting family in Florida tasting fresh squeezed for the first time thinking it was the most delicious thing I’ve ever tasted in my life. It’s sad I’ll probably never taste that ever again.

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NuuclearPasta@reddit

Are Florida oranges special tasting/different or something? Why is everyone talking like oranges are going extinct when Asia still produces plenty?

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Girafferage@reddit

Florida used to produce close to 80% of the world's oranges. You could get fresh sweet orange juice anywhere in the US for a good while. Canker and blight destroyed the potential for growing oranges in Florida and orange juice that isnt made fresh tastes almost bitter in comparison. Bitter and watery.

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FineScratch@reddit

Just like wine, oranges have terroir, as their flavor and quality are significantly influenced by local environmental factors such as soil type, climate, and geography

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whatdahelldamnguy@reddit

Industrialization of OJ has altered the taste so much due to the juice being stored in giant vats and being broken down into components then reconstituted with flavor additives and excess sugar. What we buy at the store is not real orange juice.

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HelloSummer99@reddit

It should be the same as spanish oranges, since they are the same species (Valencia). Florida/US could import spanish oranges or OJ directly. In south of Spain growers cut their trees because growing oranges are such low margin business it's just not feasible -> wholesale price is 3 cents per kilo (0.5 lbs).

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holysmartone@reddit

Looks like I need to move to Spain. I could happily eat pounds of oranges a day, but that's not very affordable in the US. Plus, our oranges taste like garbage.

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guaranteedsafe@reddit

I stopped buying regular naval oranges years ago too because of the taste and texture decline; they taste awful and they’re so stringy inside. I stick to organic mandarins & minneola oranges for citrus now.

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pandershrek@reddit

Or Asia where they originated apparently

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HelloSummer99@reddit

In late spring like now, the air has that nice orange blossom smell, the wind carries it far. Maybe you or someone else can set up a business on this and help out these local farmers. I kid you not many have actually been dumping oranges and even leaving them on the trees because it's just worth it to pick it anymore. It is also super interesting to me, how taking the same product, same trees, the US business sense could elevate that product to a billion-dollar business (tropicana, minute maid, etc).

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MeLlamoViking@reddit

Moreso the freshest for most Americans.

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Brinkster05@reddit

And that is very real. I went to Thailand in 2024, the best tasting coconuts, mango, and bananas ive ever had in my life. It was like all other fruit ive eaten here in the US js a knockoff.

The taste difference is WILD.

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guaranteedsafe@reddit

Same with coconut and pineapple in Hawaii (not the Dole pineapples.) Certain types taste like literal candy, massively eye opening to see how the fruits sold at grocery stores are garbage strains bred for longevity.

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goog1e@reddit

People aren't reading far enough to see that USA already imports 80% of oranges.

All of these conversations are mind numbing. Just people with zero facts doomering.

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24North@reddit

Absolutely different tasting. Less sweet is the biggie but it’s more than that and probably part nostalgia in there too. As an almost 50 year old FL native I can’t drink anything but FL orange juice, give me all the pulp too 😋

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ItsAllAboutThatDirt@reddit

Transportation time for one. And they have to be picked/bred for a level of transportation across the globe. Less ripe, more firm, more time in transit. Changes the composition of the fruit. Less sweet. Plus added costs.

Vs producing in-country. Buy a bag of oranges and let it sit an extra ~2+ weeks on your counter.

And I only know our situation, not theirs, but I'm assuming there's a prevalence over there of the disease as well. It originated over there, although different management practices over time could have potentially kept the insect on check that spreads the disease. Native predator base and not killing off the bio diversity of the groves.

I forget the actual numbers but the scale is essentially correct — Florida used to produce like 250 million crates of oranges per year. It's down to like 30-60 million now with an increased rate of decline. And it's not through lack of demand or desire to produce. Disease pressure through decades of mismanagement (although even regardless of that to a degree) and changing climate patterns.

We're breeding new varieties combining genetics with different stock that is more resistant to the disease, but with the timeline of fruit tree production it's a risky bet to go all-in on new trees as well. And dormant fields being monetized with non-food products. In an in-country region that should be focused on food production.

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AutomaticDeer2833@reddit

Um, I think it's just people feeling sad that something they grew up with is going extinct.

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HiSodiumContent@reddit

How long does it take for an ocean freighter to cross the pacific?
15-30 days. It takes an orange one week to start spoiling.
I know ya wanna believe in the power of international trade, but it ain't a time machine.

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Electrical_Ingenuity@reddit

I had the same experience, just in the 70s.

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MuscaMurum@reddit

A bonus for certain people...

There had been some progress, with oxytetracycline, OTC for short, a powerful antibiotic that is used to treat chlamydia and sometimes syphilis in humans.

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Future_Cake@reddit

And of course not even a SPECK of the antibiotics they pump into those trees winds up in the finished fruit, right? Right??

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Impossible_Range6953@reddit

😂😂 I dont think many read all the way to that part.

They giving STD drugs to flipping orange trees and are calling it a success.

2026 is getting weirder and weirder.

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Good_Briefs@reddit

Really shocking article but it lines up with a noticeable difference in the taste of orange juice.

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MentalDisintegrat1on@reddit

Making your own or getting it squeezed fresh at a place has been better for a while now.

I don't drink juice anymore I just eat the fruit it's WAY too sweet if you drink it.

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dittybopper_05H@reddit

I cut my orange juice 50/50 with water. It's way better that way. I do the same with other juices. I just can't stand overly sweet stuff anymore.

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MentalDisintegrat1on@reddit

I do this with Gatorade.

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dittybopper_05H@reddit

Sometimes I do, but if I'm drinking it for the electrolytes, I drink it full strength.

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MrD3a7h@reddit

I ordered some OJ for the first time in years a while back while I had covid. I thought the disgusting taste was because of said covid.

This makes a lot of sense.

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reelphopkins@reddit

I bought some OJ that tastes like pennies and now it makes sense

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RunMysterious6380@reddit

That copper taste is why I stopped drinking orange juice 15+ years ago.

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TernarySquare0123@reddit

A return to the baseline - oranges are for Christmas.

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Loud_Flatworm_4146@reddit

When I read about agriculture and the impacts of climate change, which can and will also bring new diseases, I end up wondering if we will have to shift everything north. Will Pennsylvania be the Orange state? Will New York be known as the Pecan state? Will New Jersey grow bananas in the future?

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GreenSpectre777@reddit

"The mood wasn’t sour—citrus farmers could handle sour." Dad pun in poor taste AND an em-dash.

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DisastrousBat9447@reddit

Maybe if they let them be pollinated rather than stuck in plastic to keep bugs (pollinators) out, they wouldn't have such a horrible loss. Also, FAFO global warming ✌️

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FuzzyDynamics@reddit

I thought we decided global warming wasn’t real anymore

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Fearless-Feature-830@reddit

Who did?

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unknownpoltroon@reddit

Assholes in charge keep saying that shit. Doesn't mean it isn't real, it means they can't make money of of it

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Galaxaura@reddit

thay can make money off if it... but the oil execs said it would mess up their plans so

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Salute-Major-Echidna@reddit

Then we decided it was climate change

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FuzzyDynamics@reddit

But then we decided windmills cause cancer and kill birds so we just have to live with oil?

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wil6erness@reddit

Oh no no no. We don't get to have oil anymore.

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No_Possible_7108@reddit

Bigly

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griphookk@reddit

Did you read the article? The main problem is bugs. Specifically the asian citrus psyllid. It’s killed most of the orange trees in Florida by now, which were weakened by glyphosate.

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DahWolfe711@reddit

You understand monocropping for a long period of time allows plants to be far more susceptible to various pests and diseases. There is a cause and effect thing happening here.

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keelanstuart@reddit

I mean, the article says it's a confluence of factors, not just one thing... Greening, spread by the insects, did the most damage, but the trees were weak from glyphosate... And then the climate, between storms, drought, and freezes has finished off many groves. The final nail in the coffin is that nobody is looking for an answer anymore, since they got investment / sold out and spent the money trying to find a cure - until the money was gone... Now the notion that the problems are insurmountable has the owners selling the land for tract homes and strip malls, so it's never coming back.

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Neither_Audience_380@reddit

Why were they using glyphosate? And what damage is glyphosate doing? Have you heard about the phosphorus mine in Idaho? If not I’ll find the article. They’ll just keep doing a version of this until we have no food. Wait until whatever the wheat version of this is starts hitting and the same thing happens

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whosjfrank@reddit

Oranges are self pollinated, the tree gets the disease not the fruit.

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PrideOfTheFoothills@reddit

Do you understand how HLB works?

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Quendi_Talkien@reddit

Thanks for sharing. Fascinating article and really well written.

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Any_Needleworker_273@reddit

For the people who don't want to read, this Business Insider video gives a good overview of what's going on with the orange industry as well: https://youtu.be/guCkWXZlQfI?si=h53ye3pRw9pIet2l

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03263@reddit

I'm rather surprised that OJ managed to survive as a popular item for so long. Originally it was a novelty, a tropical fruit that could be shipped and stored, especially as frozen concentrate.

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socialmedia-username@reddit

A very well written article. Sad and shocking, but living rurally in farm country, also not surprising to me. When you deregulate to promote development, and subdivisions and commercialism take over swaths of the American landscape, you are bound to see centuries old ways of life disappear. The insects and diseases are just icing on the cake.

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Neither_Audience_380@reddit

Just a warning shot

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griphookk@reddit

I knew before I clicked it was going to be huanglongbing. My family used to get papers taped to our front door warning about it/ about tree inspections

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Shyphat@reddit

i remember getting fresh oranges out my great grandmas tree in florida every morning growing up. so sad

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ValuableCoast5931@reddit

My grandparents lived on the edge of a grove in Mt. Dora and I lived with them. The smell of the blossoms was perfect- not overpowering, 100% wonderful. We could pick what we wanted- it was the Parson Brown variety. Sweet and not tough at all. So sad to see it all gone.