Will Latin America become the new Europe for expats over the next 10 years?
Posted by PartyRoad-8289@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 188 comments
Rising costs, taxes and housing pressure in parts of Europe made me wonder whether more people will start relocating to Latin America over the next decade.
Countries like Panama, Mexico, Costa Rica, Colombia and others seem to be getting more attention lately.
Is Latin America still a niche option, or becoming a serious long-term destination for expats?
Apprehensive-Neck-12@reddit
I feel a lot safer in europe I think
DumpsterSlunt@reddit
The parts of Europe that aren't at war, of course. There's more violent death in Europe than in Latin America today.
ejpusa@reddit
Mexico rocks. The beaches of Oaxaca are mind blowing. You are 2,000 mile from the USA boarder.
America? We feel sorry for you guys. Surfs yo.
But us digital nomads keep it on the down-low. Thailand and Vietnam are super cool too.
DumpsterSlunt@reddit
Puerto Escondido is among my Top Five remote-work destinations.
4mbitious@reddit
I certainly think so.
I believe due to geopolitics, demographics (aging european populations straining the countries' fiscal situations), high bureaucracy and taxes, and low economic growth... are all leading people to consider other options.
Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, Colombia are all good options. Fairly affordable, nice people, good weather, healthy lifestyles.
At the same time, in my experience, it is hard for people to make a change like that (moving from Europe to these regions). This is due to cultural / language differences, missing "home" etc.
So though I think it will be a sizeable growth area, I think it takes a long time for a mass migration to form.
As someone who left Canada in 2017 and have been based in Panama for almost a decade, it's been exciting seeing the region develop. Panama continues to get better and better, and so does the nearby region (I also enjoy traveling to Colombia, CR, Mexico and other LatAm countries as well).
unclear_warfare@reddit
Why not Asia?
daluzy@reddit
Me US, wife is Colombian. We split our time between Colombia and the US pretty much.
If one is used to life in the US and/or Europe, Colombia might be a bit of a pain for them.
Colombians are great, unless:
They have to be on time. They are driving a car. They are driving a motorbike. They are riding a bike. They need to stand in a line. They need to wait their turn. They need to pickup after their dogs. They need to throw garbage where the garbage goes. They need to turn down the speakers the size of a small child.
Also if any sector of the population has a real or imagined beef with the government, they close down the four or five roads that connect the entire country. Why they do not protest in Bogota and bother the politics is beyond me.
Anyway, Colombia is different, it is great in a lot of areas as a retired couple. I could not imagine trying to work here and get basic stuff done. Even paying bills becomes a nightmare as systems go down a bunch or the office isn't open for "reasons".
Me being retired military, I am used to stuff not working well, so Colombia is not a troubling for me...we've been here doing this for going on 22 years, so we are used to it.
TLDR: Colombia is great if you are retired and have patience.
Be well!
MusicianDefiant1183@reddit
„Colombians are great, unless…”
After the many enumerated facts, it seems after all Colombians are NOT great.
newbies13@reddit
This to a tee, I can get stuff down extremely well and don't give up easily, but just... colombia is another level in patience management and figuring out workarounds to the workarounds. You really need to go into almost everything with a "maybe it will work" attitude and a smile about it.
El_Gerardo@reddit
I am from the Netherlands, my girlfriend is Colombian (we are about 40 y/o). We frequently travel to Colombia and by now I have visited many corners of the country. I recognise the things that you say and while in theory we could easily retire at about 50 y/o to live comfortably in Colombia after selling everything we have here in the Netherlands (we already own an apartment in Colombia, near but not in Bogota, I have a very good paying job here that allow me to save a substantial amount of my salary and besides that invest in the stock market), those are exactly the things that have me doubting that option.
bbbberlin@reddit
I'm mid-30s, and honestly one thing that's clearer to me as one gets older, is the value of infrastructure.
When you're 20 you don't care if anything works, because you have time & less pressure and you can deal with annoying things.
Setting aside improbable disasters (i.e. health issue develops), being older I am less patient and more selfish with my time - I want things to just work. Even living close-by Germany, I am jealous of how good the infrastructure is in NL. Some colleagues talk about wanting to move to the US, and sure there are benefits, but I think the benefits are strongest the closer you are to 20 and taper off, and also I don't want to deal with... bad roads, but buildings, bad public services, etc.
Props to the people who can stay flexible.
daluzy@reddit
Well, if you are still happy, or at least content with the cash you are making and they investments, I'd probably keep doing what you are doing.
Like you said, you already bought something here, why change now. I think you will know when you guys are ready.
We finally quit working when we sold the dive shop several years back.
Good luck, be well!
General-Jaguar-8164@reddit
Do you pay box 3 for your apartment ?
Cool_Potential1957@reddit
I would add "unless they have to tell the truth" hahah
daluzy@reddit
Sadly true. I guess that would go along with accepting responsibility as well, it is never anyone's fault here...chuckle.
Notimetobev0id@reddit
Haha yup, lived in Colombia 3 years, my mother is Colombia. The noise is just the worst thing ever. But that's a latam thing.
daluzy@reddit
It is definitely a culture thing. I have no idea how they manage to have conversations sitting next to a large speaker at full volume.
My wife and I have a rule, probably because we are old, but if it is amplified music playing, we do not go.
BenefitAdvanced@reddit
All his complaints seem like a “latam” thing.
Ok-Abroad-6734@reddit
I feel like this is a very skewed perception though. Digital nomad/expat perception. My family is from Santander and the capital is a very quiet city. Sure, it’s got noisy areas like ANY city on earth, but most neighborhoods are dead silent after 10 PM. Unless it’s a holiday, Nequi has made paying for most services VERY convenient. And rents are still under $4-500 usd for a 3/4 bed house for most neighborhoods. Lots of green areas too. I admit we’re not the best at keeping public areas clean, but it’s improved a lot, there’s the “aseo” people, that cleans the streets every day and trash is picked up every other day.
We’ve got a lot of things to improve ofc, and there are some very bad neighbors with lots of trash and crazy ppl, but they’re becoming less common. If people going there actually wanted to live in a semi decent, safe, family neighborhood with locals, they would live much more comfortably. But everyone wants to go to the tourist areas such as Poblado, laureles, or main areas in bogota, and to me as a Colombian, they don’t even represent Colombia anymore, (Colombians HATE those areas) food is far from traditional, prices are absurd, it’s full of tourists traps, scammers, and Colombians with money who are very rude and out of touch.
YetAnotherPesant@reddit
…so they are not great? 😂
I hate that list actually 🤣
daluzy@reddit
It has become my "normal" for me I suppose.
If my wife were not Colombian, I doubt we'd spend time here, but this is where her family and friends are so we split our time.
Have you ever heard of the saying that the world is not full of asses, but they are spread out to guarantee you run into one everyday?
Here it just seems that we got a few extra asses...chuckle.
Maleficent-Bed996@reddit
Being retired military likely gave you the ultimate "Adaptation Lens"....
What you’re describing is the classic : Strict/Task-based culture and a Flexible/Relationship-based one.
in my startup: Chameleo.world (cultural lenses) we help minimise the "cultural tax":
I’ve been mapping these exact trade-offs at 📍Chameleo.world to help people realize that "efficiency" and "social warmth" are often on opposite ends of the spectrum. After 22 years, it’s clear you’ve traded the "Efficiency Lens" for a "Patience Lens"
sharinganuser@reddit
Ai slop
PartyRoad-8289@reddit (OP)
That’s valuable insight. Real day-to-day functionality matters more than beaches and marketing. Sounds like the lifestyle can work, but bureaucracy and systems are the real test.
sikkerhet@reddit
if americans become more willing to learn a second languge maybe
PartyRoad-8289@reddit (OP)
That may be one of the biggest barriers. English can get you started in some places, but in the long term Spanish or Portuguese probably changes everything.
Polardragon44@reddit
I've seen statistics as high as three out of four US students taking a foreign language in school are taking Spanish. And in most school systems it's mandatory.
The issue is many don't remember it after high school. If there was a true incentive to retain Spanish There's already a implemented platform to learn it in schools across the US.
a_library_socialist@reddit
It's not just Americans - Brits rarely speak a foreign language effectively either.
It's mainly because currently you can get by most places with English - nothing makes you learn a language like not being able to eat till you do.
I don't think that's going to continue much longer, though, as the US and UK fade away.
Polardragon44@reddit
Yes to the British and Americans rarely speaking a second language Because it's unnecessary.
Outside of that, the use of English as ligua franca fading, I heavily disagree.
For starters Australia, New Zealand and Canada still exist lol along with other Commonwealth countries. They all speak English or have English as one of their official languages.
With the power of the internet and how ridiculously difficult it is to learn Mandarin and The decreasing barriers towards international travel and movement the economic advantages of knowing English while trying to do commerce is increasingly unmatched.
Also the US even if it becomes surpassed will still be an economic powerhouse by the nature of of the reasons it became a powerhouse in the first place. It also has what the third largest population in the world that's not going to disappear anytime soon.
What other languages can possibly compete Arabic and Spanish maybe? Even if Latin America rises Spanish would not be the sole beneficiary. A lot of the economic power in Latin America speaks Portuguese.
a_library_socialist@reddit
English is a very difficult language to learn, especially compared to Spanish.
Polardragon44@reddit
I would say Spanish is easier but not significantly easier enough to be that different on the world stage. Again there would have to be significant economic benefits in learning. People will learn something hard if it's that beneficial.
In comparison to Mandarin, English is appealing to anyone who has a Indo-European background from Hindi throughout all the Spanish and francophone speaking nations of the world. That covers billions of people
A better argument would be that since a lot of grammar and words are shared between Mandarin and other East and Southeast Asian countries that Mandarin would be an easier jump for them. But the broad education structure is in place solely to teach English as a second language in most places.
Even when the Southeast Asian countries convene together to talk with each other. They choose English. To switch Chinese would have to be overwhelmingly more economically beneficial. The economic power of English speaking countries would have to go the way of France and that just isn't there.
I'm sure the great Chinese firewall has something to do with it as well as there is a massive barrier in the flow of Mandarin language media
a_library_socialist@reddit
English is difficult because it's a mish-mash of low German, French, and Latin.
Spanish is equally as related to "Indo-European" families of languages.
RoundAd4247@reddit
Do you as a nation have a collective brain damage or what exactly is preventing anglophone Americans from learning even one language to a proficiency?
lwpho2@reddit
Foreign language learning isn’t prioritized in American schools the way it is in some countries. And even in schools where it is mandatory, it starts entirely too late around age 14.
zyine@reddit
Maybe because English is overwhelmingly the most taught second language globally, and it's the top foreign language in over two-thirds of all countries. It's the dominant, most sought-after language to learn. French comes in second, but in how many countries is that useful?
lwpho2@reddit
You may be right, and I also think there’s a lot more to it. A few years ago, I started back up with classes in the language that I took in high school 30 years ago. I can’t believe how good it is for your brain to do this! And it has opened up life possibilities for me that weren’t really on the table before. I’m happy. My brother happened to have a very different educational experience than I did, starting learning a second language in kindergarten. He’s now trilingual and has had experiences around the world that would blow your mind.
zyine@reddit
Wish I could do that. I had 2 years of Latin in high school. Errare humanum est! And I did.
lwpho2@reddit
Eeek. Hope you at least went to medical school.
TheNippleViolator@reddit
Yeah, Australia is actually more monolingual than the US but that doesn’t fit into the joke as well so it’s not mentioned nearly as often.
taterfiend@reddit
People from large cultures don't learn foreign languages. People from small cultures or poor ones do. People from big cultures don't feel constrained by being unilingual.
The reason anglos don't learn foreign languages is the same reason the French, Chinese, even Latin Americans etc. don't learn foreign languages. The average Latin American doesn't speak English; you might be getting a false picture by only thinking of the highly educated ones. Those skew ambitious and educated, the same demographic of Americans who learn second languages.
In fact, the percentage of any of those nationalities speaking a 2nd language is about the same as that of Americans. Meanwhile, the average Moroccan or Albanian speaks at least 2 languages, probably more. Big culture vs small culture. Chew on that instead of being arrogant.
Winter_Ride2620@reddit
Hardly because you can’t really become proficient in a language without having native speakers to practice with, and most Americans take two or three years of Spanish in high school, which they learned from a book and there’s no opportunity to practice outside of school or beyond it. Everything here is in English. There is no legitimate need to speak another language unless you live in Miami or LA, which means people have to be highly motivated in themselves to get to proficiency and most just aren’t.
a_library_socialist@reddit
Meh, it's widespread in the Southwest.
But let's be honest, most white Americans won't lower themselves to speak Spanish, and instead demand immigrants learn English.
Life-Unit-4118@reddit
Whoa, chill.
Queen_Kaizen@reddit
The issue is schools begin with foreign languages too late. In Europe, English is often begun in the 1st or 2nd grades. In the U.S., when kids are in puberty; big difference.
Professional_Hold477@reddit
As an American, while I suspect your first premise is correct for other reasons, the language deficit thing has other causes. The main obstacle to Americans being serioys about learning other languages is the fact that the US is a huge, mostly monolingual landmass. Until relatively recent times, the majority of people simply did not leave the country, and so had no reason to speak another language. When you can drive for thousands of miles and still be in your own, English-speaking country, the need to learn other languages doesn't seem very urgent.
Even now, with more people traveling, it's generally only for a week or two because of companies' stingy policies regarding paid time off. Most will memorize a few polite phrases and/or use Google translate.
WorldClassScumbag@reddit
Americans are no dumber as a whole than any other nationality. But we are, as a whole, small-minded and incurious. One in six Americans speak Spanish at home, and two in six find this fact despicable, instead of an amazing opportunity to unlock the ability to talk with not only one in six of their neighbors, but most of the rest of the Western hemisphere. You can get to A2 Spanish as an English speaking American without doing anything more than simply not refusing to engage with the subject material present in your everyday life, which is exactly what most of us do.
Upbeat-Mushroom-2207@reddit
School availability as others said. It’s very rare to find foreign language classes before high school, and if you start that late without an immersive environment you’re just not going to retain it. There number of language immersion elementary schools are growing where I live in California though so hopefully this will change.
TheNippleViolator@reddit
It’s an afterthought in the public education system, add in the fact that English is so prolific and widely spoken throughout the world as an intermediary means of communication, and most Americans just don’t bother learning another language because for their intents and purposes, they don’t need to.
Most of the Americans who do actually speak another language are ethnic bilinguals, have lived/studied outside the US, or have a interest/hobby for languages.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
Agree.
tererepon@reddit
Nops. USA will never allow it.
123BuleBule@reddit
Mexico is already filled with American immigrants. San Miguel de Allende has been so gentrified that some folks interested in moving to Mexico refuse to settle in it because it is far from being authentic.
Tardislass@reddit
Nope. Europe is seen as Utopia for most expats. Latin America is still viewed as unsafe and corrupt.
HB97082@reddit
Exactly. Lmao, what is OP thinking. Americans never moved to Europe because of low taxes. They move for culture. High taxes in Europe are the norm.
bazkin6100@reddit
it's beacue it is unsafe and corrupt
SisterActTori@reddit
Have you been to the US lately?
nixiegirl@reddit
Are you mindful of the sub you're in? Most of us left for reasons and other reasons make us less enthusiastic about going back.
bazkin6100@reddit
The conversation is about Europe and Latin America.
While irrelevant to the conversation, yes, i have been and quite a lot.
SisterActTori@reddit
Maybe I am American-centric, but when I enter an Ex-pat forum, I assume the topic is about American Expats- I’m guessing that is what most people who come to this site think. Carry on-
ephesusa@reddit
Return to the burgerland
homeofthe_dave@reddit
Well what a silly take on worldwide forum
fierse@reddit
Yea that is indeed just being america centric
KulturedKaveman@reddit
Best way I have to describe it: Europe -> the United States -> Latin America.
In Europe they’re know for their low corruption.
The United States has its corruption but daily life, especially if you have some ties to the country and have family here, won’t touch you. Corruption is something the wealthy do.
Latin America - the corruption bits day to day life.
StriderKeni@reddit
Not everything is about the US.
Life-Unit-4118@reddit
Paint with quite a broad brush, eh?
fierse@reddit
This is common knowledge?
howimetyourcakeshop@reddit
Fix your shithole continent.
bazkin6100@reddit
latin america, the famous paragon for safety and lack of corruption /s
Feel free to look at corruption and crime statistic and comare them to the EU before talking bs on this topic
Life-Unit-4118@reddit
I love in LATAM. Do you? Feel free to actually know what you’re talking about before commenting on this topic.
bazkin6100@reddit
And since you are choosing to be willfully ignorant, here are a couple of links:
- corruption index (the lower the number, the worse the corruption) https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-index
- crime index (the higher the more crime) https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country
Totally shocking how Latin America is more corrupt and less safe /s
bazkin6100@reddit
Im european, are you? Feel free to actually know what you’re talking about before commenting on this topic.
see how ridiculous you sound?
How about you show us some stats to prove me wrong.. You cant because Im right so you just make senseless statements without any substance
rmk556x45@reddit
Are there exceptions to the rule yes does that make the rule incorrect no.
hyperxenophiliac@reddit
Unless you're talking about Switzerland or the handful of countries with generous expat tax regimes, Europe is far from seen as a utopia these days at least for high earning expats. My industry has seen an exodus to the GCC (with nobody I speak to changing their minds despite recent events), Singapore, Hong Kong and low tax states in the US.
defixiones@reddit
No one changed their minds even after months of attacks with drones, ICBMs and cluster bombs?
They might not be intimidated by Latin America in that case.
PasicT@reddit
Eastern Europe moreso than Latin America, I think.
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
Lol please look at the prices of apartments, rent in countries like Costa Rica, Panama or Colombia. In areas that are interesting for expats. These are barely cheaper than many parts of Europe, and in many cases even more expansive. And I doubt many Americans want to move to the actual still cheaper countries/parts/areas.
daluzy@reddit
While true, at least here in Colombia you are looking at online stuff I assume...those prices always reflect the gringo price. Things are a bit less when you are here in person and as long as they do not see a gringo face.
The benefits of being married to a local.
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
Sure, that’s definitely a thing. But my Colombian colleague recently complained to me about the prices for apartments in Medellin. Maybe he exaggerated or just wanted to vent, but he said the price for a 1br in nice areas is nearly the same as in the DC area.
ICanSeeNow17@reddit
Lol, they are not OR his version of nice is equivalent to mid to low tier in DC. Medellin has some nice apartments but, they are not close to costing their equivalent in DC.
Fun_Ebb_6232@reddit
Lol, no medellin is not the same price as living in DC. Maybe he meant, medellin is like DC as in compared to the rest of Colombia (where the median salary is about $500 a month), living in Medellin is a relatively VHCOL for a Colombiano.
daluzy@reddit
Yeah, Medellin, Bogota, Cartagena, and Santa Marta are always going to pay a premium as that is where people want to be, or need to be for work...or they were sold a bill of good from some ass influencer who is making money selling these folks a rose colored glasses story.
Outside the city center in the smaller towns life is pretty cool, and tends to be cheaper.
phiiota@reddit
That’s the same for most places.
98753@reddit
Why would you want to be in a place where people are constantly trying to scam you like that?
daluzy@reddit
Well, my wife is Colombian and we split our time between here and the States. Not saying it is correct, but it is reality.
Think of it as tourist pricing, same happens in tourist areas of the States and the rest of the world.
Notimetobev0id@reddit
Tourists can only stay for 6 months max a year, they gonna get rinsed so your kind posts are pointless.
gameover281997@reddit
I did! I’m an American that moved to Vietnam and I pay $120 a month for a nice private room and bathroom while I go through furthering my education online :)
ThrowDeepALWAYS@reddit
Very cool and old school. It seems most people want to move and have the same or better housing they had in their home country. You are thinking “ outside of the big box”. Living with a family as a solo is a solid way to immerse yourself in the culture and save a ton of money. Well done!
PartyRoad-8289@reddit (OP)
Fair point. Prime expat areas often price in demand quickly. Maybe the bigger value now is lifestyle, climate, flexibility and tax options rather than pure cheapness.
Necessary_Quit_3542@reddit
Too much violence.
Miss_Dark_Splatoon@reddit
This is rapidly increasing in europe as well apart from eastern europe
proof_required@reddit
What in the delulu!
Miss_Dark_Splatoon@reddit
Check sweden france and belgium, they have seen a huge increase in severe drug gang violence (tortures eg) often including innocent victims and children
Necessary_Quit_3542@reddit
If you ask anyone who has never been to Latin America, that’s the first thing they think of. I live in South America myself, probably in one of the safest countries on the continent. Yet most people still associate Latin America with violence. And violence and inequality are getting worse day by day. I just saw that there was a shooting in a tourist area in Mexico.
PassaTempo15@reddit
Violence isn’t getting worse when you look at actual data though, all of the major countries in Latin America have seen their violent crime rates decreasing significantly over this past decade, it fell by ~25% in South America and by almost 50% in Central America. Chile is the outlier where violent crime has actually increased so I assume you’re probably from there?
Necessary_Quit_3542@reddit
That’s a bit of an oversimplification. It’s true that some countries saw declines in violence during the 2010s, but the trend hasn’t been consistent across the region or over time. Since around 2020, several countries like Ecuador, Mexico, or Haiti have actually seen sharp increases in violence. So it really depends on the country and the timeframe. So you can’t say that “all major countries” have improved. You’re also focusing on a single metric. Homicide rates are often used because they’re easier to compare, but they don’t capture overall violence. In many Latin American countries, other forms of violence, like petty crime and sexual violence, have increased or remained very high. So even where homicides dropped, people don’t necessarily feel safer.
Numerous_Car650@reddit
LOL no, you ain't seen nothing in Europe compared to Latin America.
Numerous_Car650@reddit
This ... to the extent that UN research on homicide has a special category just for Latin America:
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html
Pretty much the only non-violent area throughout all of the Americas is Canada.
daluzy@reddit
Here in Colombia the security situation has gotten worse under the current admin. Peace talks just are not working for the 11th time now I think.
But chances are the violence from the FARC or ELN is not going to touch most folks personally, other than some inflation as long as you do not go to the areas they operate.
Most folks probably are not going to want to go to live in poverty areas of the jungle or mountains. Once the violence starts hitting the "normal" towns, which it has been, the government will act.
The violence most people experience here is street crime, which sadly has gotten worse again because well minded folks want to forgive the bandits as opposed to locking them up, never works.
Even street crime usually only impacts the party types...chasing girls, drinking/drunk in the street or drugs. You always read about foreigners being done in doing this stuff.
Average folks are pretty street smart and can avoid this stuff most of the time...but yes, it has been getting worse.
FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit
Latin America won't "become the new Europe", because Latin America will never offer what Europe offers.
BeenAChoad@reddit
I wonder why you toggle back and forth between Europe and the EU. More people died violently in Europe than in the entire Western Hemisphere last year, or the year before, or the year before that.
Fun_Ebb_6232@reddit
Where are you getting that info? I just looked up a Wikipedia page on counties ranked per capita by intentional homicides per year, and I see a ton of south American countries and the US above almost all the EU countries
BeenAChoad@reddit
Conservative estimates are about 200,000 to 250,000 violent deaths in Europe for the calendar year 2025. The OP frames the discussion as a comparison between Latin America and Europe. Because I'm generous, I include all countries in the Americas for the sake of comparison.
Europe still wins this won with bodies to spare. We can stretch it back a century, and Europe is a far, far more violent place than the entire Western Hemisphere, despite smaller population.
Fun_Ebb_6232@reddit
Yeah but where is your source. That doesn't line up with wikipedia or anything I can find.
BeenAChoad@reddit
Please desist from Apostrophe Holocaust.
Have a look here. It's from Wikipedia, which you cite above, but clearly you didn't look very hard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war
FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit
I only said Europe because I was quoting OP. I'm a citizen of an EU country myself, I'm familiar with the distinction.
BeenAChoad@reddit
Even narrowed down to EU, I feel much safer in Montevideo or Santiago than I do in Rotterdam or Paris.
LobL@reddit
Bunching Europe together is kinda crazy, you got some of the most expensive places on earth (hello Switzerland, Monaco, French Riviera etc.) and some really cheap and poor places.
NordicJesus@reddit
OP is living up to the American stereotype.
DemonAzraeli@reddit
Referring to people from the US as Americans is a trait of the ignirant European stereotype.
LobL@reddit
Yeah for sure, a lot of the people commenting as well.
DemonAzraeli@reddit
Butbunching LatAm into a single monolithic entity is not?
JossWhedonsDick@reddit
the cost of living difference from the most expensive Latam countries (Uruguay, Costa Rica) to the cheapest (Bolivia, Nicaragua) is far smaller than the divide between Monaco / Norway and Moldova / Albania
there is also more cultural closeness between Latam countries due to the shared language
LobL@reddit
It is, I just don’t know anything about Latin America though so don’t want to make a bunch of assumptions.
DemonAzraeli@reddit
Uruguay is to Guatemala as Norway is to Moldova.
LobL@reddit
I’ll keep that in mind if we leave Norway for South America.
LogOk9367@reddit
They are also very much just living up to the "American stereotype" how ironic LOL
Zucchini__Objective@reddit
The European Union has the concept of European citizenship.
Latin America is still lacking this kind of legal harmonisation, which gives any European Union citizen almost the same citizen rights nationals have.
The European Union is much more attractive to migrants as whole compared to Latin America.
BeenAChoad@reddit
Mercosur exists, but is a long way from the integration that the EU has reached.
The EU is much wealthier than any Latin American country, although most European societies are far less open to migrants than nearly any country in the Americas. Nearly all New World countries operate on jus soli citizenship, whereas most European countries are stuck with the ethnonationalism of jus sanguinis citizenship.
Zucchini__Objective@reddit
Naturalization is the primary pathway for non-nationals to acquire citizenship in the EU, with over 1 million people granted citizenship annually.
This means that if you have a high level of knowledge of the national language, have lived in the country for 5 or 10 years and do not receive any state social assistance, you meet the requirements to apply for citizenship.
In general highly qualified migrants are very welcome.
Zucchini__Objective@reddit
The European Union has the concept of European citizenship.
Latin America is still lacking this kind of legal harmonisation, which gives any European Union citizen almost the same citizen rights nationals have.
The European Union is much more attractive to migrants as whole compared to Latin America.
KerryAnnCoder@reddit
I think the expats who move to Europe and the expats who move to Latin America are looking for different things.
It's an oversimplificiation, but I think Americans who move to Europe are willing to pay more money in order to have a better quality of life, a better social safety net, and a more inclusive society. These expats are often parents with kids, who want them not to be raised in American culture for various reasons.
I think expats who move to Latin America are looking to reduce cost of living... many are retirees hoping to get the best bang for their buck when it comes to housing and especially medical costs.
I'm currently in Ireland now, because I'm in Group 1, but I lived in Merida, Yucatan, Mexico for six months. I liked it well enough (and the food was AMAZING) but it was lonely. I could afford to live, but there wasn't much to do.
I've also lived in the UK, London, specifically, for three years. I loved it (though it's gone to shit, especially for trans people like myself).
All of this is to say that I think that lumping in all "expats" as to having the same wants and desires in their destination... and their reasons for leaving theor origin... oversimplifies the problem.
lami_kaayo@reddit
How's ireland for raising kids, and what nice things are there to do etc? Also a dad here considering south Dublin
KerryAnnCoder@reddit
I'm not a parent, I wouldn't know.
I'm not in Group 1 or Group 2. I'm a trans woman, I no longer felt safe in America, so I have been visa hopping. I'm a refugee in all but name.
I haven't been able to legally work in Mexico or in Ireland, won't be able to start until June, so I have no money. So I haven't been doing touristy stuff or going out. I don't think I've eaten out in a restaurant since I've gotten here last July. I've been close to campus in Dún Laoghaire, and haven't really done anything. No money.
What I would say about Ireland is that the Irish housing crisis is real and problematic. It probably isn't a good time to raise a family here because it's nearly impossible to find family housing.
Cojemos@reddit
It's not so much less in those countries either.
Ok-Yak-1495@reddit
People move abroad for many reasons. Europe will continue to be a better option for working locally, starting a business, or studying. Latin America has been growing in popularity among expats and digital nomads who can maintain a dollar-based income while working remotely. In this case, Latin America can be more attractive than Europe due to its lower cost of living and proximity to the US, while still offering a broadly Western cultural environment and vibrant cities; however, it also comes with trade-offs, such as lower levels of safety.
CelebrationAfter8242@reddit
I would say yes. I lived in Panama for the past 25 years and the amount of Europeans coming into the country has been real. A family member of mine just relocated from Germany to Panama and with savings was able to get her permanent immigration status, buy a property and build a home. Cost of living outside of Panama City is still super cheap compared to Europe, so it looks to me that for many people this is a long-term destination.
pohjoiseen@reddit
Never. The climate is terrible. Too hot.
The-American-Abroad@reddit
Unlikely. probably more likely that "less popular" Europe will become more popular: Bulgaria, Romania, etc.
Life in Bulgaria is still cheaper and safer than pretty much anywhere in LatAm, for example.
seeker-0@reddit
It’s crazy how even Portugal seems cheaper than most of Latin america.
Why is that? I know latin america is much more unequal but are there really that many high earners driving up prices so much?
The-American-Abroad@reddit
a lot has to do with security as well, I imagine. AFAIK middle-class and above people in LatAm spend not insignificant money per month on security-related things, spend more to be in safer areas, and so on. That kind of problem doesn't really exist in Portugal or Bulgaria.
allthingsme@reddit
People become "expats" because they get jobs in new places. Not sure much of the western world outside Latin America, speaks Spanish.
leaf1598@reddit
Latin America is not cheap anymore... prices in Mexico City and areas of Costa Rica may as well be Americanized at this point
Maleficent-Bed996@reddit
As a Latin American who has lived in both Europe and the United States, you have to keep in mind that there is a 'cultural tax' you pay when moving. While the cost of living in LATAM is lower, the 'tax' comes in the form of the massive culture shock regarding how things actually get done.
If you are considering this move, you have to prepare for three major shifts as we describe in my startup: (Chameleo.world - Lenses):
I’ve been mapping these specific shifts for countries like Mexico, Colombia, and USA at 📍Chameleo.world to help people visualize this 'cultural tax' before they arrive.
LATAM is a serious long-term destination, but only if you are willing to have a conversation on the mind shift that's needed 🤷🏼
Wunid@reddit
South America seems like a good option for people from the US because it’s quite close and has similar time zones. As Europeans, Africa seems a more obvious choice for us; it’s much closer, and when it comes to remote working, the time zone isn’t an issue. Language-wise, it’s also easier because English is spoken in many places, as well as French, Portuguese and Spanish; there’s something for everyone, whereas in Latin America there’s only one language to choose from. Another interesting option would be Ukraine once the war is over. It’s a vast country, and it’s poor and cheap for people from Western Europe.
-Copenhagen@reddit
Expats from where?
Itchy-Artichoke-1213@reddit
No, there just aren't a lot of well-paying jobs there. That's why they've always been bigger for retirees than for expats. Bur given the increasing proportion of retirees who are Spanish speakers and familiar with Hispanic culture, I think that group will continue to grow. Not only are prices very good, but time zones are much better for keeping in touch. Southeast Asia may look better economically, but it has lousy weather, and you'll be isolated by culture and time zone.
Winter-Most123@reddit
Why would anyone want to move to Latin America with all the violence, loud people and subpar food when they could move to Asia?
gowithflow192@reddit
Enjoy Colombia if you want to get your drink spiked sure.
Worried_Hamster_9813@reddit
Mexico no way. Too much criminality and compliance from their government with local crime. However South America could be if things continue healing there. Argentina, Chile…big hope on these two for the next decade if the previous radical movements do not destabilize the current governments
greggtex63@reddit
I'm retired, still looking for my place to be. Desires: safe, decent infrastructure, not too expensive, closed to diving, reasonable distance to modern conveniences, weather (hurricanes, rainy season, heat/cold). MOST over 50 Americans are fearful of many of the countries south of the U.S. some fears valid, some not. My research and feedback from others is costs are rising everywhere, even pre-Iran. Been to Philippines, Thailand, couple of places in Mexico, Belize. SE Asia and Europe are very long travel times to most not on the east coast. SE Asia, same. Would love to he in Caribbean or south of U.S. to be 'closer' to family back home,but much to take into account. Latin America will never compare to Europe, but appears to be still be very popular with many over Europe
chachkas369@reddit
Great to see someone mention diving finally! My current destination is France, as it's an 'easy' move in that I have a passport from an EU country; however, the lack of diving and cost of energy is giving me pause for thought.
A fellow diver recently popped up on FB and informed me he and his wife are now permanent residents of Mexico. Stone's throw from Akumal, so easy access to diving that is likely far more decent than anything I can reasonably get to from Europe, so now I'm considering a pivot. I can always then just visit Europe for whatever length of time I can afford, essentially.
Life got in the way and I haven't dived in over a decade. I miss it terribly.
GeneSpecialist3284@reddit
I moved from Florida to central America, in Belize. Best move ever.
vu8@reddit
Over the next 300 years maybe
adrianaflowder@reddit
I moved from Chile to Sweden, prices are similar. I found Italy and Spain cheaper (from my experience as a tourist)
Few-Fill6826@reddit
I hope you don't mind me asking
- But what region of Chile & is there a noticeable jump in QOL or safety & things like that?, sorry I am ignorant of Chile only that it has an amazing Landscape & Santiago being the capital.
Snoo6596@reddit
You mean are they going to colonize Latin America next??
StriderKeni@reddit
I wish, and I’m mentioning it because Europe is much safer than Latin America. Without even going into topics like salary, job law protection, QoL, etc.
But honestly, I don’t see how.
Interdimensional-00@reddit
Since Europe is making it difficult for Latin Americans to enter, I believe that Latin Americans will not make life easy for Europeans in Latin America when they arrive there.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
It's already there.
Confident_Fig_2953@reddit
You'd be surprised, honestly. I myself work in the relocation space and have foreseen this coming for years. In fact, I believe it's closer to 5-7 years.
Latin America is positioning itself for the future. A lot of people here are very forward thinking. In México alone where I live, I've seen the city of Mérida transition tremendously over the past 5 years alone. A lot of people aren't aware of this, however the city of Mérida in México is literally the second safest city in North America behind Quebec. (Please Google it for yourself)
That alone brings so much peace of mind and tranquility to the atmosphere. I'm originally from Texas myself born and raised, where I was taught by my Grandfather, who was a WWII veteran, to always be prepared from a very young age. It's a sad reality more and more Americans face each and everyday with violence and crime. Having to be hyper vigilant, constantly aware of what's going on around you is not the best for your nervous system.
However just here earlier today in Mérida, I was able to walk the streets and literally felt so much peace and tranquilidad. I was on the hunt for some headphones and managed to even practice my Spanish a bit with locals.
The people are super friendly and warm. The whole narrative about the cartel is way over-hyped. And as for many places in the world, if you go looking for trouble you will find it.
In terms of developments in the Yucatán peninsula (Yucatán state and Quintana Roo) they recently completed a major high speed, fairly affordable, train line connecting both states. Also the president here, Claudia Sheinbaum, recently announced Universal Healthcare which is a major win. Private healthcare is still very fairly affordable, compared to the US.
The food is amazing, a plethora of fresh fruits and vegetables that are unmatched in the States. I can say that I have seen the cost of living rise slightly since my time here, however if you are earning in a higher currency the exchange rate is great. Many cities you can still find your favorite American convenience like Costco, Wal-Mart, and Sam's Club.
Mérida is positioned about 20-30 minutes from the beach, about 3 and a half hours from Cancun with plenty of hidden gems around to discover, like cenotes in the ground.
It does get very hot here in Mérida, over 100 degrees, however I'd take this heat over the heat from Texas any day of the week. Ironically enough, the Yucatán actually just experienced its coldest recorded winter so I guess that is a win there for a few people. And mind you, Mérida is just one city to choose from in Latin America.
As I mentioned earlier, you would honestly be surprised behind the brilliance México and Latin America has to offer. The whole cartel is literally used as a fear mongering tool, deterring expats from traveling and living abroad in México. When people are told a lie long enough, they believe it.
Not to get too political about the post or anything, however you'd be amazed. I think people who may be interested in the lifestyle in Latin America should perhaps just go ahead and pick a city and visit, seeing how it resonates with you. Flights are fairly affordable, considering. And the thing is, someone wouldn't truly know if Latin America fits them unless they scope it out and try for themselves. Is there anything that is currently pending or preventing you from at least checking out Latin America?
Again, I work in the relocation space and would be more than happy to answer any questions, reserves, or concerns anyone may have. I love offering clarity when it comes to this space.
DontEatConcrete@reddit
Absolutely not.
Jwoot1111@reddit
No. Europe was an amazingly organized and safe place. I love latam but safe and organized it is not.
Aggravating_Ring_714@reddit
It’s definitely niche because Asia beats Latin America in almost every regard.
ExternalUserError@reddit
Of course those are serious long term options. But they’re just not in the same category.
I lived in Mexico. It was great! The people were friendly, the food was amazing, and the electricity went down so much that I almost planned around driving to a hotel so I could keep working in the afternoons. We didn’t have a car in Mexico because it wasn’t safe to drive between major cities, especially at night.
In Europe, absolutely none of those problems exist. And BTW it’s that different in terms of cost. Cheap countries are often cheap because they’re poor. But most things cost less in wealthy countries because wealthy countries have figured out supply chains and there aren’t 50 bribes paid into the sales of a TV.
Expensive_Session230@reddit
😂😂
pinheadzombie@reddit
I moved to Belize 3 years ago and love it.
szayl@reddit
lol no
cirqtrek@reddit
Gated Latin America very different then Latin America!
SisterActTori@reddit
Maybe, but even in the countries/cities considered dangerous at the moment, most of the neighborhoods are safe, especially if you are not involved in nefarious activities (IE- drug trafficking).
Life-Unit-4118@reddit
Visa. Where can you get a visa? This is not a trivial concern, people!
SisterActTori@reddit
Buy property, open a business, have family.
PartyRoad-8289@reddit (OP)
Exactly. Cost of living gets the headlines, but legal residency is what determines whether a move is realistic in the long term.
Life-Unit-4118@reddit
THANK YOU! I was also totally clueless before I left the US. We are raised to believe we are in the best country on earth, so why wouldn’t other countries be eager to have us?
Spoiler: they ain’t.
SisterActTori@reddit
We have a second home an International business and both are adult kids living in LA. We will live there PT once my husband retires later this year.
Embarrassed_Key_4539@reddit
We are moving to Costa Rica, the process has been very easy thus far
someshooter@reddit
Give us some details, if you have time.
Lox_Bagel@reddit
Unfortunately, yes.
a_library_socialist@reddit
Latin America is demographically going to be the next China.
In addition, it's going to have the advantage in many parts of leapfrogging technology.
RoundAd4247@reddit
Did I accidentally stumble in r/USdefaultism again?
NordicJesus@reddit
I thought so, too. But look at its replies. It’s a bot. Not sure what’s the point of this. Is this like where Google asked you to select all traffic lights, but now with natural language?
/r/DeadInternetTheory
NordicJesus@reddit
“For expats”? Did you mean to write “for Americans”?
General_Will_1072@reddit
Judging by the politics and economics it’s closer to becoming Zambia
hyperxenophiliac@reddit
Zambia is actually reasonably nice! Feels like small town South Africa but without the crime.
tetleytealeaf@reddit
Por lo menos, yo espero que si
Life-Unit-4118@reddit
Please don’t just focus on pricing. BE SURE YOU QUALIFY FOR SOME TYPE OF VISA. It’s astonishing how many Americans remain utterly clueless (as I admittedly was before leaving) about this.
retrosenescent@reddit
It already is
bazkin6100@reddit
no, endemic corruption in latin america will always prevent that
lieutenantbunbun@reddit
Idk, Europe has problems but infrastructure is essential to doing remote work
Upbeat-Mushroom-2207@reddit
The premise of the question is interesting. I meet a lot more expats who go to Asia, compared to Europe, but maybe it’s a coastal thing.
HVP2019@reddit
No Latin America will unlikely become new Europe.
I am more likely to choose to move my family to Europe. There I can see myself sending kids to local schools, work local job, earn local income, hope that my kids will find local employment.
I am less likely to choose to move my family to Latin America. I am less likely to send kids to local schools/universities, I am less likely to find local employment and live on local wages.
As for Panama, Mexico,… getting more attention. I am an older person and I remember various Latin American countries have been popular for specific groups of people for a very long time.
galwiththedogs@reddit
Most of these countries really haven't been niche in a really long time. Boquete (Panama) is a known Western immigrant town. Like 1/5 of the population is Western foreigners. For Costa Rica, much of the coast is completely full of Western immigrants and retirees, and the prices reflect that. Also, Costa Rica is EXPENSIVE. And Californians in particular have been retiring in Baja and Puerto Vallarta, Sayulita, Mexico City, Oaxaca, Cancun, etc. for decades. Nicaragua is still more of a niche destination due to safety/water/political unrest/overall less built up than like, Mexico, so you have to be intentional about visiting.
eunma2112@reddit
Lots of gated expat communities up in the inland hills also.
galwiththedogs@reddit
Yes, definitely, that too.
Cornholio231@reddit
I love Mexico City but its having serious issues with water supply.
With many cities, only a certain subset of neighborhoods are considered to be safe enough for wealthy foreigners to live in, which makes it much more expensive to live there.
Mexico City and Medellin have already seen backlash to digital nomads and others.
smellysurfwax@reddit
It’s already been that way since the early 2000’s
PartyRoad-8289@reddit (OP)
True to some extent. Maybe the difference now is scale — remote work, global mobility and housing pressure in Europe are making it more mainstream.
comments83820@reddit
These countries aren't cheaper than many European countries. And locals are getting tired of wealthy foreigners raising their cost of living. At some point, Americans will just have to work on fixing quality of life and welfare in their own country.
Appropriate-Line1790@reddit
For those who work remotely and earn better wages, it's paradise, because they can live in a way that a local could hardly manage. That's all.
PartyRoad-8289@reddit (OP)
True in many cases. Remote income changes the equation. But countries that adapt well can still benefit through investment, taxes, service growth and new business. The challenge is balance, not just affordability.