NHTSA data: a surprising number of high complaint-rate cars right now are EVs
Posted by Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 76 comments
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration complaint data indicates that several EVs currently rank among the highest complaint rate vehicles, driven largely by electrical-related issues. It highlights potential early-stage reliability challenges.
olek2012@reddit
I have a theory of why this is. When a manufacturer releases an EV on the market they feel the need to make it as “high tech” as possible in other ways. For example folding door handles or excessive screens. Maybe it’s because that’s what consumers want, I’m not sure. Because of that there is much more to fail.
At least that’s been my personal experience. We own a Lyriq EV and everything car about it is amazing. It goes well, stops amazing, is quiet, comfortable, and very spacious. But the tech!!! The tech is so bad. Infotainment constantly acting up. The reverse automatic braking is a straight up safety hazard when it’s wet outside. The front emergency braking was equally as bad but luckily they fixed it in a patch. Honestly it’s wild because the emergency braking isn’t even new tech, it’s been around for well over a decade now so there’s no excuse to have such a poor system.
I want automakers to make regular cars that just happen to have an electric drivetrain. Truly don’t need all the high tech.
csimonson@reddit
Thats one of the main reasons I don’t have an EV. I can’t stand all the extraneous bullshit they add to make it fancy in some peoples eyes. Give me a car with decent room. Android auto/carplay and dumb simple mechanical parts that is an EV with good range and I will drive the shit out of it.
olek2012@reddit
Seriously! An electric drivetrain is by definition much simpler than a gas engine with less moving parts. Who ever decided to make them all so complicated is doing a dis service
munche@reddit
People need to realize that software failures can be just as crippling as mechanical failures
The meme of "There are less moving parts in an EV and therefore it's more reliable" assumes that you just ignore that moving a bunch of the car functions to software means software problems make things not work. It doesn't matter that your motor didn't fail if you can't start the motor due to software not working.
All EVs have been more riddled with problems than their ICE counterparts, because developing complicated software is also incredibly difficult to make work reliably in all situations and these automakers are just learning how to do that vs having decades of experience at it
star_trek_lover@reddit
Idk about that, I’d trust a Chevy bolt over a Chevy trax.
munche@reddit
Consumer Reports rates vehicles individually
The Bolt doesn't have an overall for some reason but the reliability ratings by year are all over the place, from 16/100 to 78/100 with an average score of 46 over the 7 years they track
The current Trax has a predicted reliability score of 69, significantly higher
So this proves my point. People just assume EV = more reliable no matter how much data shows it's actually the opposite.
star_trek_lover@reddit
It’s not about data it’s about practical knowledge. Chevy bolt had a battery recall that affected nearly every car tanking its average rating, while the Chevy trax will never get a recall for its criminally bad turbocharged 3 cylinder engine.
munche@reddit
Using anecdotes to confirm your biases isn't "practical knowledge"
That's what compiling and comparing data is
star_trek_lover@reddit
It’s not an anecdote, the recalled batteries were the biggest issue with the bolt. While the trax has constant issues with its turbo 3 cylinder, but hasn’t had a full scale recall so it doesn’t affect all trax at the same time, fudging the numbers. Looking at data without context is worthless. Especially consumer reports.
Time-Maintenance2165@reddit
How does the Bolt EV not fit that definition?
neomech@reddit
I have several friends who bought EVs and had many, many failures. One even lemon-law'd his. All of the failures were gadget-related, not base EV-related. Stick to simple for first designs, then add layers of garbage most people don't want later on and call them the "high end" models.
pdp10@reddit
The mainland Chinese EVs are packed full of tech, and the west is going to ape that without thinking deeply whether that's the best strategy.
The average car-ownership period is also shorter in China. This may secretly be appealing to western makers as well. Buyers refreshing their cars nearly as often as their smartphones, because the tech ages badly.
TheTimeIsChow@reddit
Manufacturers did this because they could. As much good as the EV credits did to get the ball rolling... they are also partially to blame for why EV's on the market today are the way they are.
From the manufacturers perspective, why make an EV that costs $39k...when you could just make a high margin $49k car (with all the low cost 'premium' bells and whistles) that sells for $39k after state and fed credits anyway?
This is why EV's come with these low cost, 'high tech', add ons that most affordable vehicles tend to skip. The panoramic glass roofs, the screens all over the place, the quirky door handles, the cameras. All-in-all, most of this is relatively inexpensive to 'sell', but it's stuff that they can charge a premium for. A charge that is eaten on the consumer end by fed and state incentives.
IMO? Truly affordable EV's will begin dropping starting this year. In many cases, they already have. Tesla has done it, GM has done it, VW is going to do it, Ford is about to formally announce it's lineup, etc. And it's simply a byproduct of the market figuring itself out in a post-EV credit world.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
Yeah this is exactly what the data shows, the top complaint category for EVs across the board is electrical faults, not drivetrain. The motors and batteries are solid, it's all the stuff they pile on top that breaks.
Teutonic-Tonic@reddit
Often it is just software issues. Glitches and issues with reliance on screens. The drivetrain components on EV's are very simple and robust.
Vulnox@reddit
I agree and I’m betting most issues across the EV board are frustrations with infotainment and possibly people being confused by public charging and that and blaming the car. Like taking a Mach-e to a Tesla supercharger that is one of the few that don’t support 3rd party vehicles.
We’re on our fourth EV and haven’t had a single issue so far with the actual drive components, but the infotainment stuff is buggy and I really could do without the weird door handle stuff on the Mach-e even if I’m used to it now.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
Four EVs with zero drivetrain issues is a pretty solid sample. Kinda proves the point , the electric part works, it's the tech on top that needs work.
sioux612@reddit
Took just a quick look and im not really surprised
The list is mainly Tesla (duh) and Hyundai/Kia which is known for issues like that even in the ICE cars
I was kinda expecting more stuff along the lines of Fisker, Lucid etc, the brands that didnt know how to make a car a couple months ago
Sandy_Koufax@reddit
But reddit keeps saying I’m a boomer for not trusting Kia/Hyundai just because they made the cars look less hideous.
real_picklejuice@reddit
Anecdotal but I don’t get why everyone shits on Hyundai’s reliability. I’ve had an Elantra GT that’s given literally zero problems but it’s not something I baby. I went 15,000 without an oil change and it didn’t even hiccup. Maybe I just got lucky
iamtehstig@reddit
I'm at 100k on my Stinger, 60k on my wife's Santa Fe, and 140k on my Ioniq. The Stinger blew a turbo just a few months ago after 60k miles of running nearly double the factory boost. The Santa Fe has been flawless. The Ioniq had the expected ICCU failure at 137k, but was an easy home garage fix.
I'm hard on my cars, I blew the engine in my old FRS at 93k.
objectivePOV@reddit
Is it an easy garage fix? I saw posts that people were getting charged $4000 for the replacement. Looking at a video you have to take apart the entire rear interior, and also us a diagnostic tool to run a coolant cycle.
sioux612@reddit
They build some dope cars that are fun to drive
But if a brand offers you 7 years of warranty they have something to say with that
Carvair-98@reddit
"If you can find a better car, buy it" 🫵
Seriously, Kia and Hyundai are to me a bit like Chrysler and it's various forms. They, when compelled, can make a car that grabs my attention. The Chrysler 300 and the 2-Door Wranglers are cars that, like the Ioniq's and mid-size sedans, I'd play more with the idea of buying new or the lesser part of used...
...if I just was more trustful I won't maybe have to march my happy ass back into a dealership. I just hate little things going wrong, and if I have a major thing that I myself might not be able to resolve, I'm not going to be very pleased.
xt1nct@reddit
I’ve found a good indicator is how much you can buy extended warranty from an online dealer that is selling for low profits but quantity.
For my pilot I can get 8 year/120k warranty for $1500 with 0 deductible. This is Honda bumper to bumper warranty. It would be crazy not to buy.
For XC90 I was getting somewhere around $6k.
For X5 it was also around 5k for about 100k miles.
No-Necessary7135@reddit
That's fascinating. I wonder if averages are published somewhere online?
xt1nct@reddit
I couldn’t find anything. Manufacturers wouldn’t want this getting out. Aftermarket insurance companies have some data but also don’t share it.
ggtsu_00@reddit
Can't someone just go get some quotes and post the results online?
xt1nct@reddit
Sure.
Some quotes are harder than others. For example, if you buy a Volvo you can no longer purchase extended warranty from another dealer, only your dealer. Fuck Volvo for this.
But I guess this could be a worthy undertaking at least for the most popular cars, like SUVs lol.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
Warranty pricing is basically actuarial math, if XC90 is $6k and X5 is $5k while Honda is $1.5k, that tells you a lot about expected long-term reliability
xt1nct@reddit
Yep, when manufacturer can sell warranty for $1500, they did the math. They have to make a profit at those numbers. They analyzed repair history of the car and that is how they arrive at this number.
Makeitquick666@reddit
The dealer literally said to me when I was at the showroom that if I were you I'd expect no more than 100,000km from a Kia. That's close to 10 years of driving for me so it's not a huge deal, but the fact that a dealer brought that up is... less than ideal
justmytak@reddit
Makes you wonder which car he was actually trying to sell you
Makeitquick666@reddit
dw, I bought the car in my flair, which is definitely less reliable than the Kia.
the reason? it's the only car in around that price range that's mildly interesting.
yes I'm stupid. My parents have been telling me that since the day I bought it. But hey so far it's been pretty much faultless.
It's gonna blow up tmr isn't it
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Something something Hyundai’s killing it right now.
cilantno@reddit
Fisker is still kicking?
I thought they died again
sioux612@reddit
They did die, iirc a while ago, but offloaded all their vehicles to a supplier for ridesshares which is why I thought they might still be represented
Not under new vehicles though
pdp10@reddit
Perhaps that's why I saw two different Fisker Oceans in a day, and thought that was odd.
sioux612@reddit
I literally learned that info from a short that started with something along the lines "have you wondered why you might have seen more than a single fisker in a day? This is why"
Mnm0602@reddit
To be fair Tesla’s best selling car and the one that was developed last is doing much better than the rest of the list. MY is <50 complaints per 10k and it’s been trending down until Juniper, which is common for model refreshes in the data. And that includes 2021 where it was a supply chain shitshow and batteries clearly had more issues than normal across all their cars.
The Model S/X were always kinda problematic partially due to the oldest factory and partially due to the cost/complexity and low volume. Model 3 has basically gotten better every year but 2021.
A lot of the complaints across models are related to Autopilot/FSD which continues to get better on aggregate. Salvage rate is too high across the brand still so I’d be curious to see what’s driving that.
Overall companies and customers are learning how to make/use better and more customer friendly EVs. NACS streamlining will hopefully help long term, along with bigger charging infrastructure.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
Yeah that makes sense, also filtered to models with enough sales, so new brands like Fisker don’t show up yet
MarsRocks97@reddit
Fisker hasn’t made cars since 2024. Even then they only sold about 5,000 prior to bankruptcy. They won’t be on the list even if every one of them has catastrophic failures because there aren’t enough sold to move the needle.
zeekayz@reddit
Tesla doesn't know how to make a car. They know how to make an app.
SeljD_SLO@reddit
Considering how much Tesla is praised for their crash test results, there's a lot of crashes and deaths
Astramael@reddit
It is well known that Tesla doesn’t care at all about safety in the Volvo/Mercedes sense. The quiet but functional and innovative stuff that actually saves lives.
Tesla only cares if they can market it. It’s a cynical and poor approach that kills people.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
Interested to know more. Can you cite some sources? I was under the impression they were the gold standard for crash safety and accident avoidance system.
munche@reddit
the US government measures how safe a car is in the event of a crash, not how likely to crash it is
So you can make a car that drives people into a wall and beeps at them .5 seconds before the wall impact to say it's their fault, and still get a top safety rating - because look at how safe the passenger was in the crash they caused!
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
As you can see we were lab rats for first years of tesla, after 2018 they seems to improve a lot
Due-Combination7924@reddit
Model s stat is a little misleading. IF you filter 2018 and newer models the number of problems are MUCH less. Like 10-20 times less problems than 2015-2017 models.
SwayingTreeGT@reddit
Same with Model X. Not even the biggest of Tesla fanboys will argue that the early Model S’s and X’s were really reliable vehicles. If you remove the early years, they fall well into the average (even below average) complaints per 100k.
Due-Combination7924@reddit
What aftermarket support are you reffering to? The suspension lowering links to deal with the rear tire wear?
SwayingTreeGT@reddit
A huge issue of the initial Model S and X Large Drive Unit was coolant intrusion into the motor. It caused a ton of electrical issues and eventually lead to drive unit failure. There's a bunch of after market kits for coolant delete and also shops around the country that specialize in the service.
Due-Combination7924@reddit
Oh yeah the coolant delete - right on.
Animanganime@reddit
Good thing nobody buys Model S anyway
tech01x@reddit
Note that a particular Australian is known to stuff the NHTSA report system with Tesla complaints.
ajrf92@reddit
Why am I not surprised.
Captain_Pink_Pants@reddit
Huh... who would have imagined people wouldn't like cars that are designed to be like cell phones?
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
lol agree
Choice_Student4910@reddit
The ICCU problems with Hyundai/Kia should be a much bigger news than what it gets. Instead their EVs get raves by car reviewers.
I mean they’re nice cars when they work but it should be an upfront warning to shoppers in every review, at least until the company gets a real fix in place.
PROfessorShred@reddit
My biggest take away here is that you are 6x more likely to crash a Model S than an Ionic 5.
munche@reddit
The Model S is also heavily advertised as a car that drives itself and it turns out it actually crashes a lot
TheKobayashiMoron@reddit
Not really rocket science. New vehicles go through years of working out issues after they launch. EVs are largely entirely new platforms, the top selling are of which from entirely new companies built from the ground up. Reliability takes decades of manufacturing improvements and experience to dial in.
ManokBoto@reddit
Damn, Tesla has a lot of blood on their hands.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
Yeah, its wild
DDz1818@reddit
Still waiting for a dumb EV with great practicality.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
haha with buttons and max 10 inch screen
DDz1818@reddit
No screen required. Factory phone mount is all we need. Yeah buttons. lots of buttons. lol
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
Good luck selling a car with no carplay
troll__away@reddit
Kia/Hyundai ICCU issues are well known, documented, and still not fixed. As an EV6 owner, I absolutely love the car. But my ICCU already failed once at a difficult time and I’m not risking it happening again. Once my lease is up I will be moving onto to a different make/model.
byerss@reddit
Same.
A new platform will have teething issues, that is to be expected. But there are still reports of brand new cars experiencing the blown ICCU after four years on the market. So either HMG doesn’t know how to fix it, or they don’t care. Either way it’s completely unacceptable.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
The ICCU issues are actually one of the patterns that show up pretty clearly in the data.
Ok_Combination_4482@reddit
Idk much but maybe its cuz its an emeging thing?
RiftHunter4@reddit
It's not emerging anymore. Hasn't been for a while, honestly. The Nissan Leaf has been sold since 2010, and the Tesla model S went on sale in 2013.
What we see from Tesla and Hyundai/Kia are not 1st-gen tech problems but simply bad design and corner cutting. The Lucid Air problems are what I'd expect from a 1st gen product: weird part fitment issues, software bugs, etc.
Sensitive_Tutor5531@reddit (OP)
Yeah, less mechanical stuff, but more electrical/software quirks getting reported
regardballs@reddit
Breaking news: Brands known for having unreliable cars have reports their cars are unreliable. Shocking
M44PolishMosin@reddit
cards cards cards, nice vibecoded site.