Proof of frt vs full at public ranges.
Posted by BREWCREW_414@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 46 comments
I was wondering if there is anything you carry with you if you're gun has a frt?
Have plenty public outdoor ranges near me and they are legal where I live but just want to cover my ass.
According_Loss_1768@reddit
Squeeze harder? My AZR will go dead at a 100% trigger pull.
gunsforevery1@reddit
Also to add, if the range says “no full auto” don’t be an asshole and start arguing that it isn’t full auto.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Seriously, nobody likes a "rules lawyer". And that's how you end up with stricter rules. They may say "No FRT/Binary triggers" or they may go "No more than 1 round per second."
gunsforevery1@reddit
It’s also their private property. If they say “no full auto” then don’t argue that it’s “akchullay it’s not”. Just say “ok” and fire semi auto.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
In this case OP i stalking public ranges, but yes you are right on private.
gunsforevery1@reddit
Depends on “public”. Open the public can still be private property. A lot of people confuse “open the public” as “public property”.
County/city/state owned is public property but still enforced by rules and regulations. A piece of BLM that shooting is allowed on is public property and has “no rules”.
I was an RSO at a range when I was younger, we had quite a few people try to say we couldn’t enforce rules because it was “public property”.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Gotcha, and yeah too many people confuse "Private Property open to the general public" with "Public Property".
Also especially in the case of a range, if they tell you to leave, and you don't, you're now trespassing. You're now trespassing with a firearm, which depending on state law can up the charges.
I believe Florida it goes from a misdemeanor to a felony if you're armed with a "dangerous weapon" while trespassing. I'd have to re-look it up though.
jfl561407@reddit
My closest range is a county range and it’s 1 round every 5 seconds.
Dung_Beetle_2LT@reddit
A guy that was at the range tried that yesterday when I was there. Didn’t work out so well.
SlicedBread1226@reddit
Ive never had one, but couldnt you just demonstrate it with an empty chamber?
bangstitch@reddit
Police do know the difference between an AR pistol and a short barrel AR, they think braces are stocks. Dont try and educate the police on nuances of the firearm function.
WizardMelcar@reddit
Yes. squeeze the trigger dropping the hammer. Keep the trigger held to the rear, cycle the bolt.
Full auto, after the bolt closes, the hammer will fall again. Semi- you should hear the disconnector on release, then the hammer would fall again on a 2nd squeeze.
FRT- trigger should visibly move forward under pressure, audible disconnect, visible rearward trigger movement again causing a 2nd hammer fall.
BlackSquirrel05@reddit
They either allow "rapid firing" or they don't.
Plenty of ranges that simply don't allow rapid firing. That's the question to ask.
There ranges even in my state where pretty much everything is legal... Don't allow suppressors...
Huh? Okay. I'll find a different one or they'll kick me off if they really care.
juggarjew@reddit
I was still asked to leave at a range that allowed "Rapid fire" because the owner got butthurt I had a full auto mac-10 and didnt rent one of their full autos. A range employee came out and was like "Owner says you're done", I was like "bro you said I could shoot this here I asked you..." and he was like "Sorry its not my range". I went home and charged back on the range (won by default because it was such a small amount of money) and never went back. Apparently the owner of that range only allows his full autos to be used there.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
TheRealAWiseman@reddit
Followed by "what reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime do you have?" As we all know "A gun when legally carried does not constitute reasonable suspicion of a crime".
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Followed by nothing except either:
DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE POLICE.
You cannot win. It cannot help you. It can severely hurt you if you do get arrested. Continuing to make statements after you invoke your rights can be construed as you voluntarily waiving your rights previously invoked.
TheRealAWiseman@reddit
As a quick follow up, let the police know you're exercising your 5th ammendment right. Many courts require you put them on notice. Just being silent often times isn't enough (very state dependent).
Once they explain whether you're being detained or its a consensual encounter, then let them know you're asserting your 5th amendment right.
If you aren't in cuffs its because they need you to open your mouth and give them the reasonable suspicion they need. Don't give them a hand in violating your rights. Also remember, roadside court doesn't exist. It may be uncomfortable taking a ride but you get a day in court. Win in court and if you feel so led, file a 1983 lawsuit.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Covered that in my first comment:
Not even state dependent. This was settled by SCOTUS in Salinas v. Texas. Silence alone does not grant 5A protections.
AnonymousWombat229@reddit
The cop knows if he's going to arrest you in the first 5 minutes.
Kind of like the cute girl at the bar knows she's not going to fuck you in the first 5 minutes.
fuzedhostage@reddit
Yeah to an extent this is stupid because a dumb cop is just going to arrest you and boom now you have arrest in your record and legal fees
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
There's nothing stupid about invoking your rights. The cop has already decided if they are going to arrest you or not before talking to you. The reason you're not under arrest is because either:
fuzedhostage@reddit
Or you can explain how it’s legal and avoid the conflict and even if they arrest you use the fact that you attempted to explain it in court. Otherwise you’re gonna come off as a stupid sovereign citizen.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
There is no conflict. You politely, but firmly, assert your rights. You don't call the cop names. You don't yell. There is no conflict in asserting your constitutional rights. Any cop who uses the assertion of your rights as cause for arrest is going to get reamed by your lawyer.
Federal Rules of Evidence 801 (c) (2)
fuzedhostage@reddit
Again you keep bringin this back to ”your lawyer” you could also just explain the circumstances and hope to avoid it getting that far to pay bullshit legal fees because you wanna play hardball
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Nothing you tell a cop can be used in your defense. Either:
No cop is going to believe some random ass Joe Blow about what the law is. Cops don't even trust ACTUAL LAWYERS on what the law is.
Every defense attorney ever says the same thing:
I will trust them more than some random ass redditor.
jfl561407@reddit
This is the answer.
Ponklemoose@reddit
You might also clearly ask the cop if you're free to leave. If worst come to worst it might make your lawyer's job a little easier.
juggarjew@reddit
There is no "proof" for an FRT like there is with a tax stamp full auto to make an LEO back down. The only FRT that are truly 100% legal anyway are Rare Breed FRT. You could keep the box on you with the order print out.
I remember the bump stocks used to come with an ATF opinion letter in the bag..... LMAO of course that didnt matter once they were banned in 2018 (and now unbanned again lol).
I will say that in the few years ive had my transferable Mac-10 no one at the outdoor ranges in either NC or SC has ever asked for my tax stamp. Granted ive never encountered LEOs but I do keep the stamp and a copy of my FFL on me. I am also an FFL 03 and my Mac-10 is a 1973 with FOIA proof, so when I travel over state lines with it, I dont need to alert the ATF because a C&R FFL can take NFA 50+ year old guns over state lines. So I figure between the tax stamp and showing proof I am an FFL I wont have any issues, even if I have some additional FRT stuff with me.
GSDTippyTappies@reddit
truckensafely@reddit
Many ranges don’t allow full auto even FRTs, safety of everyone at range matters.
Severe-Cow-8646@reddit
No third hole
NotAnAnticline@reddit
Ask them for a search warrant. If they don't, explain they don't have the proper paperwork and it's therefore not their business.
soapy5@reddit
Ask them if they work for the irs. If not, tell them to fuck off.
SaltyDog556@reddit
Congress delegated that from Treasury to DOJ in either the late 90s or early 2000s.
xbuzzbyx@reddit
Wouldn't it be the ATF?
soapy5@reddit
Nfa is a tax law.
TitleFightEnj0yer@reddit
You shouldn’t have to cover your ass, ask if they allow frt’s and that’s it, you’re not doing anything illegal
BREWCREW_414@reddit (OP)
There are no staff it's open just like a park is
Porky5CO@reddit
Then what's the problem?
PbCuSurgeon@reddit
Smile awkwardly, nod, and give a thumbs up while saying “your English very good” with an accent and tinge of confusion. While not due to range issues, I just pull that off in public when I politely don’t want to deal with people.
H3nCh4l1f390@reddit
I shoot at a range that the local PD and some surrounds towns use for their qualifying and training so going to shoot and seeing a bunch of cops on site shooting is normal. Speaking from experience they don’t care and don’t want the extra paperwork and if your so boldly outdoor and in the open firing an automatic you either have a permit, it’s pre ban or frt atleast that’s how they seem to see it. This also applies for SBR, I’ve never had a cop come up and ask for my stamp or whatever they don’t even look. This type of question is more of kick that can down the road when the time comes situation.
anoncop4041@reddit
I have a few. I always ask if they’re allowed prior. Not all ranges allow for full auto or FRTs. But if they do, they now know and you’re good to go. Just remember if it’s someone’s private property, they have the ultimate say in what you can and cannot do while there.
Destroyer1559@reddit
"Sure, I got your proof right here"
unresolved-madness@reddit
GritCato@reddit