Ares selected Xena to be his chosen. Although it wasn't explored, do you think it's possible that Aphrodite and Artemis selected Gabrielle to be theirs? If so, would it have further complicated the Twilight?
Posted by Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 28 comments
It's a wasted opportunity; we hardly ever saw the Amazons thrive. They were always getting killed and constantly struggled to survive. So, idk if Artemis would've taken a special liking to Gabrielle since she hardly got to be their Queen. There's also Xena's own checkered history with the Amazons to take into account.
Aphrodite shows up for Gabrielle on numerous occasions, and they get along with one another. The contrast between Aphrodite learning about love in all its complexity, beyond a superficial level, while Ares refuses to take Xena's no for an answer, would've made the dynamics of Season 5 a little more noteworthy. It also would've painted the Greek gods in a better light since they were typically portrayed as self-absorbed beings who played with the lives of mortals.
I especially find it interesting since the God of Light is "supposed" to deviate from this, but an argument can be made that he and the Greek gods are all cut from the same cloth, and are always acting out in a way to feed their own self-interests.
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
I would have liked to see Aphrodite and Ares each making their case for Gabrielle's allegiance in the later seasons when she's kind of conflicted about her path and nature. I wish they had explored that plotline with Ares a little more. I think she would ultimately choose love every time. It's interesting that Aphrodite seems notably closer to Gabs then Xena in their eps together. I'm not sure why the show never wanted to do anything much with Artemis, she and Athena seem like obvious go-tos, but for whatever reason, they didn't. I don't know if Artemis appeared on Hercules either?
ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit
apparently, Artemis featured both in HTLJ and Young Hercules (i've not seen it, but read the wiki)
i've found my favorite piece of Artemis lore i think
she could go head to head with S5 Gabrielle in a push up contest, surely hahaha
Chemical-Win-6036@reddit
I loved Artemis in HTLJ, but she was woefully under-developed as she only appeared in one episode. The actress played her to perfection, and the costume was perfect. She was portrayed as a jock goddess.
In Young Hercules, she started to have some very cool lore as Cora, a young woman who owned a tavern could raise her hands to the sky and say, " Artemis, I call on you to grant me the power of the Huntress." ( Quote may not be exact)
Then power would rain down from the sky and transform Cora into a special archer who was deadeye with bow & arrow and could become invisible at will similar to the gods. This storyline started at the end of Season one of Young Hercules, and sadly only lasted a few episodes before the series was cancelled.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
I'll have to check out Young Hercules now when I get the chance. Thank you!
What a shame she didn't feature nearly as much as Aphrodite or Ares. Then again, Athena was pretty hit or miss.
Chemical-Win-6036@reddit
The Olympians were one of my favorite parts of all three shows. I wish we had more episodes with Paris Jefferson as Athena as well.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
Yeah, she was great.
Strife was funny, but I'm indifferent about Discord.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
A push up contest?? Gabrielle is certainly competitive, I'll give her that 😂
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
Highly agree. I doubt Gabrielle ever would've been tempted to become Ares' Warrior Queen, but it was worth exploring. Since Gabrielle dramatically changes, she questions what her path is - whether it be the Way of the Warrior or the Way of Love. However, I would've preferred it if, instead of being swayed by Eli, she were persuaded by Aphrodite. It would make sense given their close friendship.
The Amazons and the Centaurs were always in conflict, so their way of life was never without strain or difficulty. Artemis not showing up was a wasted opportunity; her taking a liking to Gabrielle so that she could reunite some of the remaining Amazon tribes would've been very interesting to see. Especially as a last resort to restore what was left of the Amazon Nation. Nice mention of Athena, I would've liked to have seen more of her.
I never finished Hercules, so I have no idea how often, if at all, Artemis showed up.
Agent8699@reddit
I think it’s pretty clear that Aphrodite has … chosen Gabrielle as one of her favourite mortals in seasons 5 and 6. Gabrielle, and her relationship with Xena, taught Aphrodite a lot about “love”.
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
yeah honestly it's all there, just not as explicit as I would have liked!
Agent8699@reddit
I think a LOT of the relationships on Xena weren’t as explicit or rather textural as people would have liked! Whether it’s Xena and Gabrielle, Xena and Ares or Gabrielle and Aphrodite!
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
A lot of the early dynamic of Xena and Ares wasn't really explored so a lot is left unsaid. I don't buy into the theory that she's his daughter, but for Xenites who do, their early relationship must've stemmed from that.
Good point on the subtext!
Agent8699@reddit
Given how much they loved the chemistry between Xena and Ares AND flashbacks to Evil Xena, completely ignoring Xena’s time as his protege was a baffling choice!
I remember how frustrated we all were with episodes like Chakram which completely missed the point of what we wanted to see!
I’m especially surprised they didn’t get Lawless in her Destroyer of Nations costume for some flashbacks in season 5 given both the focus on her relationship with Ares and the fact it would hide her pregnancy relatively well.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
Chakram was severely underwhelming, to say the least. I know there were scenes between Ares and Xena that were cut out, idk why.
I get that the writers weren't trying to write a Rift #2 in Season 5, but they already made use of Lao Ma's story from Season 3. So, who's to say they couldn't have filled in the gaps between events that happened in Xena's life? The Twilight would've still taken place, but it could've given Gabrielle more of a chance to fight. Maybe if they shifted between the past and the present for a few eps??
Agent8699@reddit
Absolutely! Or … hear me out … Ares travels back to the past for a do-over trying to recruit Evil Xena following the Battle of Corinth. Xena is in her Destroyer of Nations costume, which hides Lawless’ pregnancy.
Or he time travels to when Xena first returns to Greece and is newly pregnant with Solan and steals her away from Borias and Alti’s Ixion Stone mission if they’re really worried about having to “hide” the pregnancy.
Gabrielle, using the power of love / soul mate connection to time travel with an assist from Aphrodite, must travel back in time to restore the original timeline, while also coming face to face with the unfiltered Evil Xena for the first time!
The power! The passion! The danger!
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
You placed a lot of thought into this. I absolutely love it!!! Dammit, I wished I had the foresight to be able to do justice to your ideas. A fanfiction would be wonderful! Gabrielle and Dite working together to stop an evil Xena!! The potential is abound!! You got me excited, alright.
Kinda crazy bc I started reading a fanfic yesterday. In it, Janice is taken to the past (by Alti) where Xena had Gabrielle crucified. Haven't made it far but it looks promising.
Maybe if we ever have a Time Machine, you can get hired to fix the horrendous mess that S5 turned out to be. You have a great sense of direction.
Agent8699@reddit
Haha - I don’t think they’d be hiring a teenager to write, even if they were super desperate for writers in season 5!
Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit
I am sad we didn't get an EP where "our" Gabrielle gets to actually meet Destroyer Xena. The closest we get is in the alternate reality.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
Dude, there were so much more they could've done w Evil Xena. I tremble at the thought of her being changed by the power of love. Very on brand for XWP, it's cheesy but you gotta love it!
IseQween@reddit
RotaVitae's comments about this and OP's questions helped crystallize for me one of my major disappointments about XWP. I also would've loved more focus on the Amazons and female deities like Athena and Artemis. I could see Athena battling Ares for Xena's allegiance or Artemis favoring Gabs as an Amazon queen. We mainly got so much of Aphrodite because she was a popular stand-in during Xena-lite eps.
All that was simplistic, compared to the more typical exploration of "power" and politics based on the machinations of males like Ares and ambitious Romans. I understand the "historical" interests and social "norms" that shaped what we got. I'm happy XWP pushed those boundaries. I simply miss XWP not going deeper into the fairly unique opportunities of this woman-centered show.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
It seems that the depicted gods were mainly chosen due to their popularity, as you said. Athena and Ares "fighting over" Xena would've been neat since I found Ares' persistence very repetitive, and not even slightly funny or attractive.
The loosely tied historical timeline made for some incredibly powerful episodes, but touching on more of the Greek goddesses only seems a logical next step. Xena actually respected Athena but that's done away with and only mentioned.
Athena is also close to a human, which, works as a nice foil to Ares since his pursuits for Xena are never quite reciprocated. Artemis could've chosen Gabrielle as a last resort to unite the Amazon Nation, but that too, was a wasted opportunity. This would've fit in better if Velasca was ever able to return as an antagonist in the later seasons.
magical_lasso@reddit
They certainly don't explore it enough, but I think we got a good indicator that Aphrodite "chose" Gabrielle in the only way a god can choose a mortal. She showed up for Gabrielle several times, as you said - particularly in Motherhood. I love the thought beyond this question you posed though; you'd think Artemis would feature more heavily for sure!
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
Yeah, it only makes sense for Dite to have chosen Gabrielle. She develops a closeness to her, and not to any other mortal.
I like that she initially went out of her way to make Gabrielle's life more difficult, but as she got to know her, she realized she could learn a lot more from her than she thought possible.
Artemis could've furthered the legacy of the OG Amazon Nation, so it's unfortunate she didn't show up for long. Then again, maybe a similar thing can be said about Athena? She could've taught Gabrielle fighting techniques and navigating the world of being a leader. But our imaginations will have to be enough.
Guava-Event1587@reddit
Still mad that Artemis never featured. Especially in the early seasons, with our OG Amazons.
Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)
Velasco blames her for the death of the Amazon Nation, so it would've made sense for her to show up at some point.
Chemical-Win-6036@reddit
I agree. I wanted to see more of her, the way she was portrayed in "The Apple" episode of HTLJ.
RotaVitae@reddit
Ares wanted to mould Xena into his champion, a warrior. Aphrodite certainly wouldn't appeal to Gab to mould herself into her champion. It's more a friendship. Artemis would maybe be a more attractive proposal, but Gab isn't the kind of person to devote herself to someone. After what she went through with Najara, Aidan, Eli and others, she's learned that she can't really count on people to give her an identity that satisfies her.
The series is formally pro-humanist, and predicated on the idea that gods of any stripe are only out for themselves, or what they can get out of humanity. People have to help themselves. The prominent exceptions interested in helping humanity or our heroes showed up in foreign lands, like Baldur in Norseland for Hercules and Krishna in India for Xena. Once the heroes leave those lands, they're back to their cynical view of gods.
Dahak and the God of Love are the abstract forces of chaos and order, more primal than gods. It makes sense that they above all would be the original source of that godly selfishness. Only their tactics differ because they don't deal with humans directly like typical gods. Dahak tried to do this though Iolaus and on his defeat he was completely exhausted beyond all hope of return. Only God continued to work through people, like Eli and Xena, to spread his influence.
Jahon_Dony@reddit
No. Yes.