What if Americans banded together and started a non profit health insurance company that paid all the claims the doctor orders.

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0xmerp@reddit

non profit health insurance company

Fun fact: that exists, even in the US. Several of the Blue Cross companies are nonprofits.

that paid all the claims the doctor orders

While I agree American insurance companies decline more than they should be declining, even in places with universal healthcare it isn’t a free-for-all lol

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Weed_O_Whirler@reddit

Yeah. I'm not going to say the US system isn't broken, but I think a lot of Americans have a false impression of what healthcare is like in countries with universal healthcare.

There's still people not your doctors deciding what procedures are approved for you. There's still people weighing the cost of a procedure vs the expected benefit. Is it better that the people making those decisions are beholden to the voters? Of course. But they're still there.

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frisbm3@reddit

Some people call those death panels.

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Biuku@reddit

Don’t compare the US system to first world healthcare.

In the US, insurance companies deny treatment coverage due to a profit motivation.

If you sit and think about that long enough — maybe 7 or 8 years — you’ll truly realize that that is evil incarnate. A person working for such a company making such a decision is, to me, the equivalent of a Nuremberg defendant. Imagine getting a Christmas bonus because you killed more people. More children.

Americans cannot read the sentence above without rejecting it. They’re programmed to inject a profit motive into every aspect of life.

Nationalized health insurance isn’t perfect. But no one has ever made a decision to let people die because of a financial imperative.

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NoDig3444@reddit

Nationalized health insurance isn’t perfect. But no one has ever made a decision to let people die because of a financial imperative.

It's both hilarious and tragic that you believe this.

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PenComfortable5269@reddit

Profit motivation

Insurance companies only earn 3% profit on every dollar of insurance. Since americans don’t want to spend even more insurance - insurance companies have no choice but to deny some claims.

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Puzzleheaded_Bee1169@reddit

United Healthcare full year 2025 Profit: $12 billion ($13.23 per share). $12 BILLION

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PenComfortable5269@reddit

Sales: $455 BILLION - net margin: 2-3%.

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Puzzleheaded_Bee1169@reddit

Right, but that’s Google. This is people’s lives. You really don’t see an issue with a health insurance company with a profit motive? How many people would be alive today if that $12B in profit was spent on patient care?

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PenComfortable5269@reddit

Again: $455 BILLION in sales - $12 billion of profit is a rounding error and would not noticeably affect patient care. Do you really think that 2% higher insurance costs is the big problem with US health insurance?

How many people would be alive without united health care- well on the fringes: $12 billion divided by $1 million dollars for the best cancer treatment which extends life 2 years would be 12,000 patients get to live an extra 2 years. If you are worried about that 2% -you can buy a non-profit insurance — but for 50 million people they would rather buy united health insurance.

There are a lot of reasons why healthcare is so expensive (including the complicated insurance billing) but insurance profits are not one of them.

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0xmerp@reddit

I get your point, but every system has some degree of financial consideration. Even the best healthcare system isn’t going to spend an infinite amount of resources to keep you alive. The motivations are different (as opposed to profit, they’re trying to help the greatest number of people with limited resources).

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Biuku@reddit

As I said, you’re not capable of accepting this, and wouldn’t be without years and years of reflection. But what you’ve just said is insane.

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0xmerp@reddit

I literally live in a country that ranks among the top in the world in healthcare systems lmfao

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LongOrganization7838@reddit

Also remember just because its non profit doesn't mean it doesn't have sketchy or predatory business models

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Potential_Stomach_10@reddit

The Germans are finding it out now.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-health-care-spending-reform-cdu-spd/a-76796338

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AssistanceChemical63@reddit

Why can’t we just figure out which country has the best healthcare system and copy that?

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TotallyManner@reddit

Presuming there is a such thing as “the best system”, the answer would be because we would also have to copy everything that makes it the “best” to get the same “best” outcomes. Some of which would undoubtedly be unconstitutional (e.g. forcing people to eat the same diets or take less risks or work less or drink less or drive less or have less guns)

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Accomplished_Ant5895@reddit

Because not every country is the same.

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Megalocerus@reddit

It would make sense to study the options and how they work, but picking the best one is complicated. You'd want to consider cost and outcome both. But outcome may vary for reasons other than . how healthcare is paid for. Perhaps diets are better, or people are simply longer lived (perhaps because they are shorter) or the layout encourages more exercise.

But I'm pretty sure what the US has is not good.

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Ethereal_Keeper@reddit

The cost of my medical care yearly is north of $110,000 yearly, if I put In the same amount of money into this company as you, I’d be taking severe advantage of it.

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psychophysicist@reddit

Which is how it should work. I’m willing to subsidize people with higher expenditures now if in return I have my expenses covered if/when when I have issues. That’s like the entire point of health insurance.

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Afraid_Solution_3549@reddit

These exist and they’re called healthshares, often a good alternative to traditional health insurance but they have some bugs that will disqualify some people like zero tobacco use, and some I think no alcohol either.

I was between insurance for a few years and we used Solidarity healthshare. Overall a good experience but not for everyone.

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Ethereal_Keeper@reddit

Oh I’m not really making a point either way, and what you said is very true. What I do mean is if we’re all paying the same % and I use $110k a year vs someone that might use $10k in a lifetime, that doesn’t end up very fair for the smaller party.

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DragonFireCK@reddit

The entire point of insurance is to spread risk across a larger group.

The original insurance companies were merchant co-ops. Merchants banded together to cover the risk of their ships getting lost. Each paid in an amount relative to the risk and would be paid out when a ship was deemed lost for various reasons. Some merchants paid in and never got paid out; others got paid out for multiple lost ships.

Health insurance is a bit odd in that it normally covers maintenance in addition to losses.

Most insurance only covers losses. The healthcare equivalent would be to cover ER visits, short term treatments (ex antibiotics), and emergency surgery, while not covering preventive care nor long term care.

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dinnerthief@reddit

Many things we do are not "fair" I might never have a house fire but im ok with paying taxes to cover the fire department.

A healthier more secure society is worth it, also we'd likely still pay less than we do now.

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Bigfops@reddit

I mean, that’s how insurance works now though. I go to my annual checkup and that’s about it, I’m pretty fortunate that I don’t have any chronic conditions that need ongoing care. But I pay the same rate through my company as someone who does need ongoing care.

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schwerbherb@reddit

In Europe we have this thing called "solidarity". Maybe you could give it a try?

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MrMathamagician@reddit

Nice try but presumption of correctness for doctors has been tried many times and is largely responsible for cost crises we are in. It only one or two doctors to charge $250k to put a cast on your broken arm to bankrupt any system.

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No-Share982@reddit

This may be shocking to you, but there is a lot of waste and over prescribing that happens by providers to make money. Greenlighting everything a doctor orders would be mayhem.

I do find the massive swing on Reddit to be funny on this topic. When it comes to insurance, a doctor should never be questioned on what they want to do to a patient. But then you see many threads of people saying doctors only see them for 10 minutes at a time, misdiagnose, ignore a patient’s concern, over prescribe, miss things for years, etc. Healthcare in this country fails on multiple interconnected levels, unfortunately.

Asking Americans to band together on anything is also just a pipe dream.

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PenComfortable5269@reddit

Exactly! If doctors weren’t forced to care about price many would be prescribing $1000 creams for a little eczema when a $2 cream is almist as good. Imagine insurance costs then!

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PenComfortable5269@reddit

That company would be bankrupt in a week.

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lonelycrow16@reddit

As a pharmacist, this is a terrible idea.

People have no idea how many times a prescriber's orders are incredibly costly inefficient and sometimes just plain wrong.

There is a rea$on pharma companies spend so much money on drug reps and direct-to-prescriber marketing; it works, even if the product is not the best for the patient.

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Boomshank@reddit

While we're at it, maybe we could make advertising medications to end users illegal, like in other civilized countries.

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Weed_O_Whirler@reddit

One thing I don't get is the push to get rid of prescription drug ads. The example I always give for why is my dad.

My dad was at a physical and the doctor asked him if he had any symptoms he was dealing with and he mentioned how he had to wake up 3 times a night to pee. Doctor told him "yeah sorry, that happens to old men." And at the time, that was true. It was an untreated problem for older men who had slightly enlarged prostates.

Now, in an ideal world, that doctor would make a note "if there's ever a medicine for male frequent nighttime urination, let Mr so and so know." But that world doesn't exist. Not just not in the US. But not in Europe either. But also, my dad isn't going to bring it up year after year - he was already told it wasn't treatable.

But when he saw and ad for a medicine for it, he then asked again at his next physical. He didn't demand a medicine by name, it was "oh hey, heard there might be something to do about all that peeing I've been doing" and sure enough, there was.

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Boomshank@reddit

Yeah, nah.

You don't solve bad doctors by allowing capitalization of healthcare.

Drug companies are pushing solutions to people who are NOT qualified to understand.

For-profit drug companies have one purpose: to make more money.

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Weed_O_Whirler@reddit

But they don't have to understand, Their doctor does.

I do agree, a patient going in and demanding certain drug is a problem. But those patients are problems regardless. But a patient knowing a question they want to ask their doctor isn't a problem.

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Boomshank@reddit

Sure it can be a problem.

Have you ever worked with people?!?

If a patient is coing in with what they think is the answer, you have to now dissuade them from that BEFORE you start moving them to the real answer.

And you seem to be disconnecting the advertisement from the product. They're selling medication, not advertising issues. And people spending billions on ads to sell meds are VERY good at convincing people they need their meds.

Advertising medicine to the end user IS hurting and killing people.

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ericbythebay@reddit

That covers a lot of advertising.

How about doctors learn how to manage customer expectations? Then we don’t need prior restraint on speech.

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Boomshank@reddit

If you're defending free speech as the corporation's right to advertise to you, and you can't see that as broken, it's not just the system that's broken, you are too.

Corporations are NOT people and do not deserve free speech.

No. How about we do the sensible thing for a change and ban all medical advertising.

The fact that that covers a LOT of advertising should be a further indictment of the broken medical system, not a defense of advertising.

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ericbythebay@reddit

The complainers are privileged and don’t actually need specialty medications.

Advertising for PrEP lowers HIV transmission rates.

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ericbythebay@reddit

Unlike so-called civilized countries, we have the First Amendment that protects speech.

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Boomshank@reddit

SUCH a simplified, naive take.

And one that hurts people for the benefit of mega corporations.

And you're willing to stick with it, blindly, for the sake of the broken system.

So, now you have TWO broken systems.

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anastis@reddit

Are cigarette ads allowed then?

Right. Same thing can happen with medications.

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scarr3g@reddit

This also doesn't address the "pay for prescription" doctors, that instead of ethics... Have greed.

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StZappa@reddit

There are some Healthcare options called Healthcare collectives I believe that have a group investment fund set up to cover Healthcare but I think that is more beneficial to people who are wealthy

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rSlashisthenewPewdes@reddit

What if Americans banded together

Call me when the shuttle lands!

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ericbythebay@reddit

It would go out of business. Healthy people on employer insurance wouldn’t join, but unhealthy people without current coverage would, so claim would vastly exceed premiums.

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174wrestler@reddit

This was exactly how it worked before the 80's. Blue Cross/Blue Shield, a non-profit, sold what is now called conventional health insurance.

The 80's introduced managed care to control costs and introduced the HMO/PPO models.

You can still buy conventional health insurance, that's what people like company executives get. As one could guess, it's ridiculously expensive.

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JrdnRgrs@reddit

This is just medicare for all with extra steps...

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Questo417@reddit

It’s actually fewer steps… but sure

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newos-sekwos@reddit

Paying all of the claims?

That's a great way to further inflate healthcare costs. Even countries with full state-run healthcare systems will have some way to control cost.

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Riccma02@reddit

Then the private insurers would buy it out or drive it out of business, depending on how successful it was.

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EightEight16@reddit

It would cost an insane amount of money and it would cause shortages that lead to more deaths overall.

Healthcare needs to be rationed by an impartial third party. Not an insurance company only concerned with profit, not a doctor who is only concerned with their individual patients.

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Head-Engineering-847@reddit

Use lottery money