Who would be the saviors of manual transmission in the coming years ?
Posted by panda_eccentric@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 200 comments
Each year we see the "last manual transmission releases" for our favourite sports cars and hot hatches... I'm afraid there will be a day in the future where there's absolutely no fun manual transmission cars to drive
ridgebackm@reddit
A good automatic will shift much faster than any manual. If you miss shifting you can always use paddle shifter. Even the new Honda 1000 motorcycle you can shift into any gear without using the clutch.
panda_eccentric@reddit (OP)
Unrelated but ...
I think with all the rising concerns with emissions and fuel reserves
We might be looking at hydrogen fuel cells being pushed heavily in the future.
Even for EVs, lithium extraction has a carbon footprint equivalent to running an ICE for 5 years.
Plus hydrogen fuel cells will boast availability and efficiency
Toowoombaloompa@reddit
My prediction:
In 10 years time, electric will be the default choice for new car buyers. They'll offer over 1000km/600 miles on a charge, will be faster, cheaper to run and more reliable than ICE.
When that happens, people who choose ICE are doing it because they want to enjoy the characteristics of a combustion engine and so the only combustion cars will be enthusiast cars.
In that environment, a good quality manual shift will be popular.
Toyota are supportive of manual with the GR Yaris and GR86. Ford keep manual as an option on the Mustang. Honda's legendary manual remains on the Civic Type R.
The Chinese have shown little interest in owning that market, so I'd expect Amercian, European, Japanese and Korean brands to play there.
chauggle@reddit
When Porsche DID offer manual transmission in all of their cars in the US (save for the Panamera), there was less than a 5% take from buyers.
It was a free option. Everyone online moans about wanting it. Buyers didn't. They wanted the better PDK.
EnlightenedCorncob@reddit
Jeep
navlgazer9@reddit
The day is coming when there won’t be any NEW manuals for sale
Always be plenty of old ones around for many years .
Nasa_OK@reddit
True manuals for sure. If it’s just about fun like OP said, Toyota is experimenting with virtual clutch pedals for EVs and the IONIC 6N comes with a virtual sequential gearbox and paddles.
Sure it’s not the same thing but it’s a good sign that some automakers are realizing that cars still should be about driving and not having a smartphone with wheels
VoTBaC@reddit
Regulatory AEB will be end of all manual transmissions in the US. Will be a sad day.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
Why does this prevent a manual gearbox? AEB is on my manual Jaguar XF.
VoTBaC@reddit
There is new reg coming that requires AEB to work upto 60mph. Today the requirement is only about 24mph, where the risk of locking the drive wheels still exists but is no where near as dangerous at highway speed. The reg also states you can't turn it off unless for towing.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
Why does that prevent a manual gearbox? The engine is entirely computer controlled, so power can be cut, and the clutch can be released via the hydraulic system just like the ABS can apply the brakes. Drive wheel lockup would be entirely controlled by the ABS modulator.
jzclipse@reddit
Because the pedal is actuating a force that actually drives the device. You’d need some sort of electronically controlled, like “fly-by-wire” operation to make it automated. It will make it feel like shit and likely not operate smoothly at all.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
It would be very simple to have a hydraulic bypass valve and power pump to take over the clutch system when needed. Just like the AEB does with the foot brake hydraulics, it can completely override the foot operated hydraulic pressure and apply whatever the computer dictates. This system does not interfere with normal driving feel. In normal use the hydraulic system would be exactly as a normal clutch. If the car system decides to take over, a hydraulic valve will separate the pedal hydraulics from the circuit and apply motor driven pressure. It's very straightforward for hydraulics to work this way. A hydraulic press machine I have used has manual control of the piston, but if the emergency stop is hit the manual control is bypassed and the automatic system takes over to put the machine into a safe operation.
AtomicWeenie@reddit
Could you make it work? Absolutely. Would car manufacturers implement it? Absolutely not. Unfortunately there's not enough demand for manual gearbox cars globally. The cost of adding another hydraulic system on top of the cost of a limited run of manual equipped cars is likely just a bridge too far when they can keep it cheap and compliant with a mass produced automatic.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
This is the issue. It's no problem to have a manual and full AEB, but if no one wants a manual, no manufacturer will build one. It's much more simple to have a clutch override than the ABS, traction control and stability control. Some niche manufacturers could continue to build manuals if the demand is there. But a couple of decades ago 80% of cars sold in the UK were manual, now it's only a quarter.
pepperymirror@reddit
Maybe I’m not tracking but it seems like the hard part applies to all cars? The manual would just need to punch the clutch in, in addition to the other stuff
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
This is how I see it. You would never feel any difference if the AEB doesn't kick in.
VoTBaC@reddit
Exactly, a true manual gear box is at risk. It breaks my heart. Don't get me wrong, from time to time I do enjoy all the fancy new features, but this 1 really makes me wish I had held onto a few cars that I had to sell. Drive by wire clutch, could you imagine!? 😭
Kneecap_Blaster@reddit
My 2023 MT and my wife's 2022 MT both have it
VoTBaC@reddit
New reg comes in for 30MY
Kneecap_Blaster@reddit
I looked up the regulation. It doesn't seem like it would prevent manuals if the current systems don't.
VoTBaC@reddit
Honestly it is horribly written There are many indirect impacts to a vehicle not explicitly stated in the reg. One being you can't allow a vehicle traveling at 60mph to lock it's wheels in an AEB event. When the car takes over you would need an actuator to throw the transmission into neutral, otherwise stop producing them. A true manual is at risk, a real risk.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
Just as the ABS can completely take over the application of hydraulic pressure to the brakes and release or reapply pressure from an electric pump many times a second, a much more simple system can be used to operate the clutch to just fully release and disconnect the engine, much more straight forward than the ABS modulator. In normal operation the clutch would work and feel completely normal. If there was a will to do this, it would be no problem to implement. I have worked with electronically controlled hydraulics and there is no reason this could not be done.
VoTBaC@reddit
No control over the clutch? Hard pass, plus a more expensive vehicle. Of course the technology is there. I want a damn manual transmission, and the is its death.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
There is no problem with full control over the clutch until AEB kicks in. And AEB would only kick in if the driver fails to brake and an accident is imminent. I have never had my AEB operate. So I would never know the difference if the car had the potential to declutch in an emergency. It's only like ABS, you never know that's there if you drive properly.
xxtankmasterx@reddit
No. AEB kicks in whenever the car thinks that an accident might be imminent. That's fine and good when the conditions are nice and the vehicle is brand new, but what about when the car is 25 years old and driving in the snow or a dust storm.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
What has that got to do with manual gearbox compared to auto? If a car is badly maintained, then no surprise if it doesn't work properly.
LongjumpingCat6642@reddit
My semi does it at any speed. Doesn’t disengage the clutch or anything
Bonelesslimbs_@reddit
Yeah, same. Idk why they think they need the clutch to disengage or anything.
Bonelesslimbs_@reddit
This is nonsense. Modern semi trucks with manual transmissions also have auto braking and it works just fine. The auto braking also works at any speed on semis.
JMPhotographik@reddit
My manual GR86 has AEB.
autovelo@reddit
What?
VoTBaC@reddit
Locking your drive wheels at high speed is not fun.
autovelo@reddit
AEB works with manual transmissions. AEB doesn’t lock the wheels.
VoTBaC@reddit
Current AEB does not. It's function will radically change with the new reg coming. This new reg's requirements will, with out doubt put an engine in a stall situation. Hence locking the wheels, and forcing either an additional actuator to physically force a transmission to neutral or just stop producing them.
Automatic-Peanut8114@reddit
They could just add an emergency actuator to hold the clutch in during extreme AEB
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
Just like the ABS and stability control can operate the main wheel brakes independently, all the technology is there to just actuate the clutch if needed and keep the existing feel of the clutch unaffected I think it will all depend on demand. If customers were buying manuals over autos, manufacturers would easily implement AEB etc with a foot actuated hydraulic clutch.
VoTBaC@reddit
We are forgetting cost over an incredibly low volume. Cost will go up. The standard transmission known as a manual will be gone. A driver losing full control of the clutch is simply no longer manual.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
If people don't buy manuals then there won't be manuals. The cost of a clutch override that leaves full, normal control as we presently have until AEB kicks in would not be expensive. After all AC is far more complicated and expensive than a clutch override would be. But people want AC, so it's available.
VoTBaC@reddit
Hardware, additional hardware. And new and unique SW from suppliers with very low volume. A manual would be more expensive than an automatic for the first time in history.
Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883@reddit
If most people don't buy manual, then of course economy of scale means the manual box would rise in price. But this would happen regardless of AEB which would not add much to the cost. I agree manuals could die out, but not due to AEB or anything like that, just down to what most people actually want to buy. There are many things on a car that are not essential, that take lots of hardware, software and cost, but people want these things like AC, heated seats and steering wheel, power boot opener etc. So these things are available. I have never bought an automatic car, but that is getting unusual.
autovelo@reddit
“New” high speed AEB will not lock the wheels either, even if the engine is turning at low rpm with the clutch engaged. The braking isn’t different from a high speed only the detection sensor specs are. Plenty of cars already have high speed AEB capability.
navlgazer9@reddit
What’s aeb?
Never heard of it
VoTBaC@reddit
All modern cars starting from sometime in the 20s have some form of automatic emergency braking (AEB). But, you can turn it off and it is delegated to only low speed. The reg requires high speed and many other requirements including you can not turn it off unless towing.
Empty_Requirement940@reddit
Automatic emergency braking
navlgazer9@reddit
Ahh got it
My current daily driver was built six years before airbags were required . And it’s a manual .
My previous daily driver was built when Jimmy Carter was still governor of Georgia . And it was a manual . Three on the tree .
autovelo@reddit
Automatic Emergency Braking.
BoondockUSA@reddit
Motorcycles will be the last holdout, but there’s quite a few automatic bikes on the market now, and that number will likely keep growing as the technology becomes cheaper.
OkCartographer175@reddit
The people who decide to buy them as new cars
You can get online and talk about how you want manual cars every day, and get a million other people to do the same. But if you're not willing to spend or borrow $50k+, your opinion simply doesn't matter.
ajaxburger@reddit
I agree that people need to vote with their wallet but the Z didn’t sell well because it’s just an overpriced letdown.
Has nothing to do with manual on that car
OkCartographer175@reddit
Please expound on your point, I want to understand what makes you say that.
ajaxburger@reddit
In short, the biggest reason the Z didn't do well (and especially manuals), in my opinion is that they offer a poor value at the price and mostly retirees bought the car. I've yet to see a single young (under 45 even) person driving a Z.
In that demographic you're gonna find a lot of people who can't be bothered to drive automatic.
Further, I say it's a bad value because in all packages you're getting a significant number of reused parts from the 370Z and they increased the price $12k on base models. You could get a NISMO 370Z new in 2020 for $45k.
Not to mention, in typical Nissan fashion, the interior finishes at the price point are just not competitive with the likes of the other Japanese and German coupes they're competing with. When they were competing with the BRZ / GR86 at $30k they were fine but not in this price bracket.
You want navigation? That'll be an extra $10k to bump to the next package up. At $52k you're competing directly with a BMW M240 which is undoubtedly going to provide you a better experience overall.
I continue to be really disappointed with the Z. Nissan had an opportunity to continue offering their cars at the bargain end of vehicle pricing but with an actually interesting car this time and they just overcharge for it.
OkCartographer175@reddit
The 370Z wasnt twin turbo, though. And people were complaining that Nissan needed to update the Z and make it twin turbo. It was "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation. If they made a budget car, people would complain that it wasnt good enough to warrant buying over a used 370Z. They listened to people and made what they said they wanted. You cant knock them for not selling it at a loss. People were not asking for a budget Z. They were asking for a 50k car and that is exactly what Nissan offered them, and the people who asked for it simply couldnt afford it.
You cant really compare it to a BRZ. Yes they both have a manual. The Z happens to make 150 more horsepower. They are not going to cost the same.
The BMW 240i is a valid comparison point, though "better experience overall" wasn't substantiated by anything.
yeeting_my_meat69@reddit
I heartily agree with your take on the Z. It has been a flop for 2 main reasons imo. Firstly, they were instantly marked up upon release by dealers in the higher income markets where they should have sold the most cars. I live in a place where dealers wouldn’t let go of them for $60k-$70k in most cases. Lots of people wrote them off after that and the negative sentiment exists to this day around that car. Secondly, early auto models had faulty transmissions, and while the issue was corrected via recall and replacements, it was bad enough to tank reliability ratings and make it look like an even more shit deal at $60k+. Manuals didn’t seem to have as many issues but the car was DOA because the dealers were greedy and Nissan pushed it out the door without fixing major issues.
ajaxburger@reddit
You can compare the two when they cost roughly rhe same new. The 370 was best in its class because it had a plus over its competitors; now it’s the weakest offering in its price bracket.
You’re conflicting yourself in saying Nissan did the right thing by listening to people wanted a twin turbo; if they listened to the people they’d be producing more manual cars too but here we are and you’re arguing it’s solely a spending conversation. You can’t have both.
Nobody wants to spend 50k on a car with the finishes of a 30k car.
I don’t have to substantiate the comment on the M240, it’s not a subjective point that car is genuinely a better offering for the money.
Confident_Offer46@reddit
It's also kinda ugly and soft looking from the front.
Jolrit@reddit
Have you driven a Z with a manual?
3dprintedthingies@reddit
No one bought the new z because they said it was going to cost 40k and dealers marked it up to 60k.
Dealers are the problem and always have been. The boating world has the same exact issue. What sells to the dealers owners wife is what gets bought.
OkCartographer175@reddit
So the people who said they wanted it didn't buy it
3dprintedthingies@reddit
They didn't buy it because it wasn't what was promised. The 370 was cheaper and sold well even into its later years, manual and automatic.
The new z was said to be basically a reskin so it didn't cost much more, then dealers marked it up 50% more.
That breaks the deal. When the only people buying cars are the wealthy or the dumb it breaks all of the marketing. The upmarket buyers are older and buy autos. Make a cheap car and actually build them en masse and they'll sell. As long as we have dealers that don't happen.
OkCartographer175@reddit
Right. They didn't buy it because they couldn't afford it.
3dprintedthingies@reddit
The consumer stated they would buy it at 40, then it was 60 with dealer markup. It was bait and switch. You don't blame the consumer when a corporation has shitty business practices.
Jesus is this too hard for you to understand?
OkCartographer175@reddit
Provide evidence that "The consumer stated they would buy it at 40"
iamr3d88@reddit
Got a 2025 GR Corolla Premium Plus last April just for that reason. Didnt even really want a new car, but refuse to complain about manuals dying without doing my part. Best car I've ever owned by a LONG shot.
Current_Homework_143@reddit
The new Z didn't do well due to several reasons; its cost/performance compared to its competitors, dealer ADMs, supply chain delays, etc. Most importantly, Nissan dealers messed everything up with their ADMs. It didn't sell and get the car out there to be seen by others;free marketing/presence. It's almost an exotic in how rarely I see them.
Not everyone was asking for twin turbo, but that's where the market is now (came out too little, too late) and people could see how based on the G35/37 & 350/370Z twins, it'd probably use the engine from the Q.
Look at how the Miata and GR86/BRZ twins are selling for a better reference point for manuals.
DreamAffectionate336@reddit
Another issue is that there is a silent depression going on right now and most people can hardly afford to rent a home, let alone buy a 50k car.
FlyingDutchman9977@reddit
And on top of that, car companies are actively phasing out their lower tiers of vehicles to maximize profit margins. Prior to 2020, every car company offered sedans in multiple segments, manual always being offered, and pricing starting well bellow 15k. Within a very short amount of time, the auto market has been so enshitified that you can't get any vehicle for under 30k and manual is at least 50k.
topherhead@reddit
Yep. I'm doing my part, new highly optioned Cayman in 23. But I'm tapped out for a while so I need others to also help so there will be one for my next purchase.
To be fair buying a used manual does help a little bit, just by slightly constraining supply. But that obviously doesn't move the needle for manufacturers much.
But in general on Reddit I almost always see people saying "vote euro your wallet" when it comes to punishing things they don't like but they very rarely use it to mean "support this thing you want to keep happening."
Wanting a manual makes you a smaller market and you just have to accept higher pricing because they have to amortize their expenses over a smaller number.
Like the people who brag about waiting for games to drop to a tenth their original price, same with cars.
GlassCannon81@reddit
The flip side is, OEMs need to offer more affordable vehicles with a manual. Toyota kinda champions of this right now. A lot of companies don’t even make a sub $30000 vehicle, let alone a “sporty” version of one. There’s a lot less vehicles on the market that look like a Focus or Fiesta ST than there once were.
Commercial_Staff9074@reddit
I want a gr86 before they go hybrid or electric. Im telling myself to save and be responsible and buy used. But this is something I want to keep as my weekend car for many years to come.
From a car guy standpoint buying new I know its taken care of. Would be really lame to get something that was abused for 5k miles then I baby it for the next 200k.
Spyderbeast@reddit
Hurray for me
I was casually perusing listings for new sticks a couple years ago. Really not much affordable that I thought I'd be happy with, but I kept on seeing the same brand new 2023 BRZ on the lot for a month or two
I was never into Subies, at all. But I took a look, got a reasonable price for a 2023 purchased in 2024
That said, I hope to have it at least ten years,so y'all gonna have to continue the battle without me
mpgomatic@reddit
Bingo. It’s up to us. Create market demand and the auto manufacturers will build what’s selling.
Of all the vehicles I’ve purchased or leased in my life time, only two have been automatic. I’ve brought half a dozen new manuals home from the dealer.
I’ll drive a manual until I am no longer physically able to do so. I hope that day never arrives.
rainer_d@reddit
I learned to drive on a manual. And did drive manual for over 30 years. Then I bought an EV and can’t stand manual shifting anymore.
It’s simply not relevant anymore for people learning to drive here (in Europe). Just as you don’t need to teach your kids how to fill up gas or people learning computer science getting taught how to draw a line on the screen in assembly language.
Nobody is paying top dollar for cathode ray tube televisions. So don’t expect anyone in the future to pay top dollar for a manual transmission ICE car.
angrycanadianguy@reddit
It really depends. If engine designs like the REV Force 2 stroke come to fruition, or Toyota figures out hydrogen (probably in the ammonia engine), we might see a resurgence.
42ElectricSundaes@reddit
Porsche 911 will always have a manual option
Taredmonkeh@reddit
If we don't support these cars now while they're still being made, we'll be left browsing Bring a Trailer for overpriced nostalgia in ten years.
Organic_Warthog7238@reddit
No one manuals don’t sell and haven’t for decades
Mykonethreetripleone@reddit
When someone makes a “people’s car” again and realizes there’s more profit in simple, tried, tested technology.
wuhanbatcave@reddit
Manuals have effectively been culled into only the strongest sellers.
Likely the Civic SI will continue to sell like hotcakes. Idk how well the Mazda3 is selling but i'd imagine not as well
BoK_b0i@reddit
The 3 is weird cause its only the mid-range fwd model that comes with the manual iirc
Hellament@reddit
Currently, in the US, only the top trim/base engine Mazda 3 has a manual (and only in the hatchback, not sedan).
Kind of a weird choice…historically, manual people don’t want a loaded car (and with the weakest engine option).
takumifuji86@reddit
I originally thought it was a weird choice but the data from the previous gen said that a majority of manual buyers got the top spec premium trim, so for the 4th gen they put it exclusively on the premium with the base engine since the transmission couldn’t handle the turbo engine. It seems to be selling decently well because they eventually dropped the automatic on the premium trim making that trim a manual exclusive like the Si is manual exclusive. I’m sure it was a bit of a chicken and egg scenario since they made the manual only for that trim, so all manual buyers bought that one, and most people who wanted an automatic either wanted a lower trim or the full turbo, meaning the only buyers for the premium trim were the manual buyers.
BoK_b0i@reddit
Gotcha, the base engine part is why I was thinking mid spec. It is a really weird choice to me.
Hellament@reddit
They technically have higher trims, but I’m pretty sure they all have the turbo engine, which can’t be had with a manual
wuhanbatcave@reddit
GT is full spec i believe.
Also prior to 2024 (2019-2023) models were available with stick on all trims, hatch and sedan
WJ_Amber@reddit
A large majority of WRXs sold are manual. I believe the same goes for the GR86/BRZ. Definitely not the highest volume sold but the people who buy them want stick.
Carnifex217@reddit
I thought they blew everyone’s minds and stopped making them in manual? Or was that just the sti?
WJ_Amber@reddit
They discontinued the STI after 2021. The new supra is automatic only and I believe there was a year with a cvt only VB wrx performance trim.
wuhanbatcave@reddit
They added a manual Supra in like 2021 or 22
bizmarkie24@reddit
Yes the highest trim, the GT, came only as a cvt or whatever name Subaru gave it. However, they have subsequently released higher trims like the TR and TS that are manual only.
I have a manual WRX, and it's a great car, but I'm likely going to switch to an EV soon. I've had a manual car (two wrx and one Celica) for almost 20 years now.
wuhanbatcave@reddit
to be completely fair, what the fuck is your problem if you buy a WRX with a CVT???
like even with the GR86 and Miata you can at least make the argument that while the auto transmissions themselves are like 15+ years old at this point, they at least have real gears
KW160@reddit
If I needed to buy a new car tomorrow it’d be a Civic Si manual.
Packagedpackage@reddit
The Tacoma is one of the few trucks you’ll find with a manual.
dselogeni@reddit
Honestly, the way technology and the desire for convinience i think itll be the old dedicated guys that will keep the old ones going. Auto markers seem to be stepping further and further away from them. Especially, since fuel economy and emissions are so regulated. Makers can tune and tweak the electronics for the automatics to shift at the right times for fuel economy and even emissions.
the_gamer_guy56@reddit
More and more CVTs too. They'll minmax that shit to adjust to the most efficient gear ratio for every possible speed and throttle combination just to get their car a few places higher on the fuel economy leader boards.
woodworkingguy1@reddit
Porsche drivers
Obeymyjay@reddit
Honestly I think we may be on the verge of a small reversal. I think Porsche keeping around the manual as aggressively as they have has shown other manufacturers that there may be a purpose for the manual still. The manual will be primarily for the enthusiast that will allow the manufacturer to be considered cool because if a brand is cool, then the masses who don’t care about manuals will gladly buy that manufacturers automatic.
pepperymirror@reddit
Yep, everything is an unnecessary cost until it fucks brand reputation
tnsipla@reddit
Honestly, I think Subaru will kill it off
We know that Subaru is looking into simulated manuals w/ clutch, and if they put it into market, it won’t be long before other manufacturers copy them
twoscoopsofbacon@reddit
A simulated manual with a clutch? What is the point.
Comrade-Porcupine@reddit
When people are shipping EVs with simulated engine noises and transmission lag, the absurdity is very real: driving becomes like the video games that were trying to be like driving. Simulation and simulacrum.
pepperymirror@reddit
What’s the harm though? I drive a manual purely for the experience, not because I hate changing trans fluid. If they can make it feel right (questionable) I don’t care that it’s not real.
Though TBH, if I had the option of putting it in automatic, I’d probably slowly use manual less and less and then not at all. It would need a counter that limits my automatic time.
Comrade-Porcupine@reddit
Driving electric has eliminated my desire for manual, TBH. I have torque whenever I "need" it
FrostyVariation9798@reddit
Tremec - just buy one, buy or make abell bell housing for the engine, and you can make any rear wheel drive a manual.
Gold_Historian_5648@reddit
Porsche and of course Miata.
Geruvah@reddit
But Porsche manuals go to 80-90 in second gear
DFLDrew@reddit
Can’t come soon enough. They are inferior technology. It’s like hoping for the return of carburetors. There’s a reason why performance cars have moved on.
captstinkybutt@reddit
Car companies should not be investing any money in developing new internal combustion powerplants.
They should be punished prohibitively for doing so.
Former_Specific_7161@reddit
The Miata would really have to have the option. Mazda in general could pivot away from comically oversized tablets and all digital gauge clusters and be applauded for it.
They already have a history that it would work well with, given their zoom-zoom and Skyactiv campaigns. Could have some marketing poking fun at bloated and souless tech on wheels that is their competition has become and I think a lot of people would like that.
Nstraclassic@reddit
Honda/Acura Type R/S
the-human-wrench@reddit
My thinking is Miata is always the answer but idk
DionBeebe@reddit
I think the jeeps and bronco's will hold onto the manuals for a while, there just seems to be a demand for them in the off road community
UncleSlayton77@reddit
Mazda. Ford will keep offering a manual in the Mustang, most likely.
macman7500@reddit
I only see Mazda and Porsche making manuals for a while
flushbunking@reddit
Europeans
why_1337@reddit
EU is slaughtering hot hatches right now. Only manuals left are boring commuters.
Satins_Cock@reddit
Right, as long as they keep buying them, I could see it being an option here. With the growing EV adoption over seas, I could see them disappearing entirely though.
flushbunking@reddit
Rats, i def agree evs are becoming more mainstream. Byd everywhere
djsnoopmike@reddit
The Miata as always
pockets3d@reddit
Suzuki carry kei work van more likely.
imachiknsamich@reddit
Miata is always answer
God bless mazda for making a fun affordable car
zespak@reddit
Miata
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
Autos are better. I was die hard manual until I had a proper performance auto/semi auto. Even going sequential is better than manual. BMW 8 hp is where its at.
illinest@reddit
I hardly drove a MT car for 20 years but then i took a trip to Tennessee with friends who own an STI and a C5 Z06 and I felt like Theoden King remembering how to hold a sword.
Autos are fine if you believe that the car is just a machine that you sit in and control to take you places. But if you want to have the feeling of being a part of the machine then you need to be the one who moves the gears.
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
You have nailed it because the elephant in the room is really that modern cars need auto boxes especially the high powered cars because just because people can buy them does not mean they are able to drive to the level of the car. With autos the ems can better keep the yuppies alive so they come back to buy more cars. A shit drive in a manual high powered car will be shiny side down very quickly and that's bad for business lol
True_Goat_7810@reddit
"better" in a way of faster and even more efficient: yes.
but not "better" in driving engagement. I want to operate my car. How much fun is it pressing the accelerator to the floor and letting the car shift perfectly every time?
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
I absolutely felt the same. Until I got into auto with a semi auto option that was designed for performance If you are into performance the efficiency isn't a consideration for me anyway. Not all auto boxes are created equally same goes for manuals Jesus the box in my ae86 is like stirring soup lol
RevolutionaryAge47@reddit
Brazen ignorance on your part.
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
would love to know why I'm so ignorant? Can you expand
True_Goat_7810@reddit
maybe it depends. My cars arent that powerful. I dont live in the US, so powerful cars arent cheap and everywhere. A 500hp auto might be fun, lol.
My 110hp manual miata was fun. My 140hp auto C-Class definately isnt, and even 200hp autos arent. You just press the pedal and they do their thing, comfortably.
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
Yea my ae86 is maybe 140hp on a good day if it starts. Fun little car but no matter what my insurance company says I wouldn't consider it a performance car in today's world .Would an ae86 be more fun auto?...definitely not would it be easier lived with and faster , probably.
RevolutionaryAge47@reddit
Abject nonsense. You don't get to define what is best for everyone.
Shinobi_WayOfTomoe@reddit
I agree. Love my auto Supra. It can be fun and engaging once I put it into M mode and paddle shift. But it’s also a car… and cars to me have to have an element of convenience…which it does when I’m commuting with sport mode off and in full auto mode.
If I want ultimate engagement then I hop on one of my sport bikes.
squirrel9000@reddit
DCTs are so hit and miss though. The good ones are OK. Kind of bleh, like those people who want fake shifts on a CVT or even EV, it goes where you point it. Fast rather than engaging The bad ones are awful and worse than whatever n+1 speed slushbox Stellantis is putting in their glorified minivans.
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
Well a dct is technically a manual box with hydraulics or solenoids operating it so the good and bad is the design of the operating system running it. Vw dsg is really good I have found. Its really down to the expense spent in design like a Kia and a Mercedes would have significant difference between them. General statements of a gearbox type is good or bad isn't really fair . With the obvious exception of cvt lol
Natural_Ad_7183@reddit
Autos have been objectively better for a while now. The fuel economy and performance advantages of the manual are long gone. They survive simply because people like them. I’ll happily trade some performance to row my own because I like it.
frosty_power@reddit
They are better in performance, but not on smiles regarding the fun factor. My Porsche PDK is not as much fun to drive vs a manual.
otterland@reddit
I hard agree for pretty much anything made in the last 20 years. My daily driver is a Honda Fit with the nearly classic 5-speed automatic in it. I test drove the stick shift and found it absolutely ridiculous. It didn't really even have a proper overdrive. I assume this is to give it the illusion of sportiness and to let let cruise control work in 5th or 6th gear without lugging on hills. But on a regular everyday car, I don't want to sit over 3,000 RPM on the interstate.
LogicalAsk5426@reddit
I currently own an ae86, a gc8 type r and a jzx110. Gonna convert the Jzx to 8hp to handle the power (600bhp 560ft/lbs) to many broken r154's. Daily drive an auto van and an x5 so opinion based on that. Ae86 is what it is fun for a blast as is the type r but you do need to be careful or you will strip a cog or break a shaft handy enough. The jzx would strip 2nd gear with any kind of harsh lift of the clutch.
otterland@reddit
I haven't really liked any manual transmissions that I've driven in the past couple of decades since electronic throttles came on the scene. For one thing they are all geared to low to allow for cruising in high gear using cruise control. With the electronic throttle body, you're losing pretty much half the feel. I find that's fine because I think the trade-off with an automatic is that you get an excellent cruise control.
So as far as I'm concerned, manuals have been dead since the '90s. So if I want a manual, I'll get something vintage. Electronic throttle bodies are really optimal with automatic transmissions. With manual transmissions, it just feels like you're driving a shitty video game that's geared improperly.
RevolutionaryAge47@reddit
Laughable take.
otterland@reddit
My take relies on experience and the evolution of technology. Your take relies on you being a manual transmission snob who has made your entire personality manual transmissions.
Manual transmissions in the age of the electronic throttle and excellent automatic transmissions are obsolete.
Guys like you use them as gender affirming therapy I reckon. Have you tried doing something less irritating like flying to Turkey for a hair transplant?
I've owned half a dozen, some going back to even the '60s and they were fun but I'd never buy a new one. I actually enjoy going on road trips in my car and using cruise control properly.
Jolrit@reddit
I have to comment. I’m 69 and have been driving nothing but manual transmission cars all of my life. I decided that I wanted an ungodly fast car so I bought a 23 BMW M240 Xdrive. B58 engine and ZF8 transmission. The acceleration was ungodly. After a period of time I came to the realization that the only time my BMW was fun to drive was when the throttle was buried. In daily driving it was boring. I traded for an Integra Type S with an incredibly sweet 6 speed stick. It’s fun to drive whether I’m going fast or slow. I even look forward to driving to the grocery store. I learned my lesson. It doesn’t matter how fast a car with an automatic transmission is.
RevolutionaryAge47@reddit
Enjoy your cruise control in your Honda Fit!!!!!!
LMAO!!!!!!
ShatterProofDick@reddit
Surprisingly, at least to me - Ford.
The CEO released a statement recently that read something to the effect of "pry the manual from my cold dead hands".
So good for him. Still pissed they dropped it from the ecoboost mustang, but it's still there on the GT and Broncos.
fmeupfam14@reddit
GM too. The alpha platform will continue with a manual.
ShatterProofDick@reddit
New Camero will have it?
Nice!
bald2718281828@reddit
Porsche Camarenera with stickshift!
OregonMothafaquer@reddit
Ford only has the mustang with a manual transmission
ShatterProofDick@reddit
Broncos have em.
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit
Ngl I was surprised to see them ADD a manual to a new car. Especially after they neutered the maverick with the dial and no single-cab option.
Aaaah now i'm imagining a maverick with at least a handbrake and column shifter and a single cab.
heyitsYMAA@reddit
They aren't even putting a handbrake in the Mach-E Rally.
If ever there were a car that should have one, it's that.
Ok_Two_2604@reddit
It’s not that kind of rally, kid.
heyitsYMAA@reddit
Thanks, Harrison Ford
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit
God that'd be kickass. EV and a handbrake- you meet these guys yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBgRHoJ7gwA
CM9611@reddit
Sadly left no one ordered Ecoboost with the stick. I owned one and loved it.
But yeah, mustang in some form will always have manual transmission. Thank god
ShatterProofDick@reddit
2021 ecoboost high performance edition convertible stick shift over here. Focus RS engine with all the GT suspension and brake components.
I will keep it on the road as long as possible.
Technotitclan@reddit
Porsche and Mazda. Both are bought purely for the experience
Consistent_Law_3857@reddit
I wanted a manual but it was geared too high. 70 mph was 3500 rpm. I got the cvt and it's under 2000. It's their own fault.
Jolrit@reddit
I’m doing my part. I bought a 25 WRX and a 25 Integra Type S.
Open-Reputation234@reddit
BMW, Audi and maybe some Honda / Toyotas.
Keep the man pedal alive!
jtj5002@reddit
Honda and Ford.
OregonMothafaquer@reddit
GR Corolla will have manual until they kill the GR Corolla
OregonMothafaquer@reddit
Sports cars will be the only cars with manuals in 5 years
Best_Market4204@reddit
Gas engines in small civilian cars have no future.
Ev's with electric motors & hybrids with ecvts are far better
GrogRhodes@reddit
BMW will always offer one.
RevolutionaryAge47@reddit
Abject nonsense. BMW is moving away from manuals. Competition M cars no longer offer a manual. Even the ones that have a 6 speed are $70K or more.
I have a 2018 BMW 330i 6 speed which I bought for $35k. Today it has 130k miles and there is no equivalent BMW car I can replace it with. Every model has the slush box auto. BMW will not get another sale from me.
GrogRhodes@reddit
I’ll wait for them to actually get rid of it on OG aka the RWD M3. Don’t care about the xdrive/comps they’re 60-130 burble tune geared I’d consider myself more as purist.
GrogRhodes@reddit
I’ll wait for them to actually get rid of it on OG aka the RWD M3. Don’t care about the xdrive/comps they’re 60-130 burble tune idiots.
No-Housing-1004@reddit
Manuals will be very very valuable in 20 years
IBringTheHeat2@reddit
Porsche has new models manual cars. Their newest 911 gt3 S/C is manual only
withsexyresults@reddit
Honda cuz all their fun cars are manual only
Porsche
ShatterProofDick@reddit
Mustangs. Pretty short list though outside of those 3.
withsexyresults@reddit
Iono about mustangs, they dropped manual from ecoboost. Their manual take rate is only 27%
ShatterProofDick@reddit
Yup, glad I was able to snag a convertible stick shift before they're unobtainium.
Natural_Ad_7183@reddit
This gloom and doom narrative has been going on for some time, but I suspect the enthusiast sector will keep the manual alive as long as ICE cars are still being made, which is to say, quite a long time. Subaru, Toyota, Porsche, Honda, BMW, and Hyundai will keep them going, and I wouldn’t be surprised if VW brings them back.
RevolutionaryAge47@reddit
VW GLI has a manual option today.
Turbulent-Pay1150@reddit
High end sports - automatic. Quicker and more efficient. Only a handful of manuals left in BMW and Porsche - and very few takers.
Subaru only on the WRX and BRZ at this point and those are now slow Subarus. Enthusiast for sure but low on hp compared to rest. Subaru is in the midst of full on electrification and there are no manual EVs that I’ve heard of.
ZucchiniAlert2582@reddit
Their EVs are manuals, but they only have 1 gear.
Natural_Ad_7183@reddit
If you’re not chasing lap times and just want a fun car the objective advantages of the auto aren’t relevant. FWIW, the manual take rate on the M2 is approaching 50%. The Subarus you mention may not be fast, but they’re cheap enthusiast cars, and there again the take rate is well over 50%. Subaru may have thought about going full EV but those plans are firmly on hold, which is why I said “as long as ICE” cars are available. They’ll go away eventually, but it’s going to be quite a while.
Careless-Trick-5117@reddit
Ten years ago, I would have never in any word expected Hyundai to be one of the final brands still making enthusiast cars with manuals. Crazy world
Natural_Ad_7183@reddit
Same, it’s pretty nuts. But it seems like they’re pretty committed to the N program and I’m happy to see it doing well.
imachiknsamich@reddit
That's one of the reasons.All my cars are old enough to drink
Yes it's definitely harder to scout them out And as far as new cars I think the only ones you can get with a stick are like the Toyota 86 And the honda civic type r
it sucks that you can't even get a regular civic in a stick now but I think it's because the kids these days care more about apple carplay, than the joy of driving
Successful_Ad_9707@reddit
Toyota seems to currently be the one semi affordable brand that is keeping manual cars alive on their sporty offerings and to a lesser extent Honda.
Fast_Introduction_34@reddit
I'm almost certain it will be a luxury brand. Porshe
Sure-Recognition-262@reddit
No-one (other than restomodders) is going to make an EV with a manual transmission, and I imagine most manufacturers will keep making ICE vehicles with manual transmissions right up to the point that they're still allowed to sell them (2030 or 2035 most places), so there'll not be any one company which is last.
Bulky_Employ_4259@reddit
Japanese sports cars are still mostly manual and I don’t expect that to change. They aren’t chasing numbers, they’re chasing an experience.
drftfan@reddit
Nissan is committed to bringing out more manuals including the new Infiniti q50 and there is discussion finally of bringing back the Silvia.
wolfox360@reddit
Suzuki swift
DonEscapedTexas@reddit
racing
should be the answer
crypticcamelion@reddit
A manual electric car does not really make much sense does it?
Careless-Trick-5117@reddit
Iirc some companies have already patented the tech for it. And I’d also like to add that ICE manuals also make no sense if you go by the metric that they’re slower and take much more effort to use, but for the same reason goobers like me would buy an electric manual car, we like them because it’s just fun.
crypticcamelion@reddit
Good to hear that some fun still exists in the car industry. I'm thinking modern cars are too boring. I was considering (dreaming of) buying a 1936 Citroen recently simply for the beauty of the vehicle. :) ICE manuals did make sense from an economy perspective until not so long ago. Manuals are still the norm in Europe.
bearded_duck@reddit
Jeep Wrangler
Active_Scholar_2154@reddit
1) Kit Car makers 2) Amature mechanics 3) Computer Programmers /Electronics geeks. 4)Restomodders
Kit Car makers will offer new cars with new manual transmissions (see factory five)
Amateur Mechanics will do more manual swaps since some cars are More valuable with a manual. Lots of cars have crappy CVTs or Dual Clutch Transmissions that nobody knows how to fix. Sticks shifts can be rebuilt and adapted for these vehicles to save them from the junk yard
Computer Programmers will make open source ecu programs.
Electronics geeks will make open source hardware to hardware , which will be needed to get rid of out of date broken electronics designed for only the dealer to fix them.
Gunk_Olgidar@reddit
Miata Is Always The Answer.
There will always be a market for manual transmissions. As more MFRs discontinue their production, sales will shift to those who remain.
KJ_Blair@reddit
Ford Mustang I’m sure will always have a manual
MaxwellEdis0n@reddit
Motorcycles.
Gubbtratt1@reddit
I've given up on brand new cars a long time ago. My summertime daily is from 1967, my motorhome from 1976 and my 4x4 from 1987. Some people will even call the 2008 winter daily old, not me though. All manuals, and all except the winter daily are RWD.
Jasperleemuchen@reddit
infiniti honda subaru