Notebook: with or without numeric keypad
Posted by Sad_Mastodon_1815@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 53 comments
We use HP laptops at our company. I’ve only been working here for a year, but I’m currently trying to set new standards when it comes to hardware. Until now, they’ve been providing people with cheap Envy laptops. In my opinion, that’s a no-go in a company. We’ve now moved on to ProBook and EliteBook models. So far, I’ve always had to procure devices with a numeric keypad. I feel like this limits the number of possible devices on one hand, and on the other hand, it also makes these devices more expensive. Or how do you see it? I’d rather give people more performance, since they mostly work at a docking station anyway, instead of giving them less performance just to have a numeric keypad. How do you handle this?
iceph03nix@reddit
We usually have with and without.
Some people like clerks, accounting, risk, etc are working with numbers all day and really benefit. A lot of other people are perfectly happy without and it generally means cheaper and sometimes smaller, or a more comfortable keyboard.
sembee2@reddit
The only people I have had to get with a numerical keypad built in are finance people. Regular sales and admin staff just get a standard keyboard.
You can get separate numeric keypad as well, I have done that before.
The main issue with the laptops with number pad is the size, as well as limited choice.
Most ranges have one with and without so why not give staff a choice?
dracotrapnet@reddit
2.4ghz dongle and Bluetooth wireless number pads exist for those finance people who work 95% of their life on a docked computer with full keyboards in a large office. You could also ship them a full keyboard to take home. How many finance people are going to be working on finance stuff in starbucks?
Sad_Mastodon_1815@reddit (OP)
You just answered the why. The main issue with the laptops with number pad is the size, as well as limited choice. :)
Vermino@reddit
In our company we just have 2 standards.
The Dell 16" has a numeric keypad
The Dell 14" doesn't
Specs are kept the same otheriwse (cpu, ram, disk, ...)
Users just choose their own format to work with. But I don't want to hear complaints about laptops being too large to carry, or screens being too small to work on.
wrt-wtf-@reddit
You want a mobile capability not a luggable capability. Bigger laptops (keyboards) are harder to pack into bags and tend to be on the heavier side. I would consider a device with a keypad a mobile workstation these days.
Be easy on the workforce and give them a device that is small enough and light enough to get around with without needing a laptop carrier with wheels.
We used to go through school and uni carrying a couple kilograms of books. Some companies took the advantage of the digital age by making people carry around a couple of kilograms of laptop… I won’t do that the people. A laptop these days can easily fit in a purse or jacket as opposed to being luggable bricks.
Fooshi2020@reddit
Some users don't like that the screen isn't centered on the main keyboard with the addition of the number pad.
a60v@reddit
This. The ergonomics aren't great.
VA_Network_Nerd@reddit
This is not a question for IT to answer.
The business users make the money that pays for everything.
Do they want the number pad in the laptop, along with the larger display or do they want to shave almost a full pound off of the device?
Once you put docking stations and mounted monitors on every desk, the urgency for that number pad and larger screen drops rapidly.
Secret_Account07@reddit
When I worked helpdesk users always said they wanted a numpad. Until they had to lug around a 15” laptops.
I suspect most users will be the same. 15.6” laptop suck to carry around
Brilliant-Advisor958@reddit
17" laptops were standard for a while in our company, people were so happy for a hardware refresh.
uptimefordays@reddit
17” laptops are diabolical.
uptimefordays@reddit
Without, folks who want a full keyboard likely use their laptops docked most of the time anyway.
Bjotte@reddit
Well, every place I have worked we usually had a 14" standard model that everyone got, unless they had a legitimate need for something else. Even the place I work now (combined MSP and Local computerstore) we have our standard models we sell to our managed customers that like 95-99% of their employees get, and then if the user have some special need/use case they get something else that covers their needs.
Finance/sales people usually get some 15/16" model with a numpad and everyone else usually want the 14" option due to the portability, and most of the users are using docks at their desks anyway so the need for a numpad on the laptop is minimal. We even have finance/sales people that travel a bunch and want as light and portable a PC as possible and then we try to get them some 12/13" model that is specced comparable to our standard 14" one, but that was much more normal like 6-8 years ago, now the 14" models are usually thin and light enough that even the most hard core road warriors accept the 14" models with minimal fuss if we can't get them a smaller and lighter model.
While standards are good for a fleet of machines, it is IMO insane to expect a tool to work optimally as a one size fits all kind of deal. The tool needs to be the right one and for some that might be a 16" laptop with a numpad, but for others that might be a PC that is as light and thin as possible to accommodate their need to travel and not having to lugg about a giant PC that don't fit their needs.
Like we even have some customers that do travel with a 16" PC but leaves it at the hotel and only uses an iPad out at the customer site for note taking and then go back to the hotel to use their PC to type up what they need to send back too HQ and too any contact person at the customer.
My recommendation would be something like have 2 or 3 standard models at a minimum a 14" and a 16" model, and then let the user choose or let the user choose with approval form their manager between the models, and in the few cases where a user have some needs that are not covered by the standard models and their manager has signed off on it (preferably with someone in IT looking over it before buying, even better if the process is that the user and the manager just tell IT what they need the PC to be able to do and then IT finds the best option, this minimizes the instances of people trying to get stupid gaming laptops on company funds.) then get some PC that suitably covers their needs, we are talking people that might need some more powerful PC for things like simulations, graphical work or something like that, or users that work with large datasets that need more RAM than the standard models get, in that case a standard model might be just fine as far as compute goes, but they might need to double the amount of RAM in it.
Secret_Account07@reddit
If you’re doing work that really needs a numpad you’ll likely dock and use a keyboard
Honestly even if that wasn’t the case I’d rather buy a usb numpad than lug around a larger laptop constantly
15” laptops are too big imo. 13-14” is sweet spot but with that you don’t want a numpad
Sad_Mastodon_1815@reddit (OP)
Haha. In our company the standard is 16" and my manager wants that i buy always 16".
Xibby@reddit
I remember the tale of an executive who just had to have a 17”. I honestly called him and said “I think you will hate it. You travel often, you won’t be able to use it on an airliner. It’s so heavy I call it a luggable. My professional option in is you should go with our best standard laptop and we have selected portable projectors for presentations. And when you’re in the office you’ll dock your laptop and use multiple HD displays.”
Exec: “Nope, I want what I requested.”
Me: “OK, just doing my due diligence and giving you my professional advice because that’s my job. I’ll get you what you want.”
Three months later…
Exec: “Xibby, could you set me up with what your recommended laptop, accessories, and portable projector? You were right, I really hate this monstrosity. Just put it in the system and I’ll eat crow when I approve the exception to my budget.”
One of the favorite execs I worked with in my career. He put a lot of trust in me after the laptop incident and it paid off for him when a disaster scenario hit. “No worries. Performance sucks but you can work. We’ll have you back to normal as quickly possible once power is restored to your office.”
widowhanzo@reddit
Ugh I hate 16" laptops and I hate numpads on them.
Tall-Geologist-1452@reddit
Standardization, every one besides C-Suite, IT, Devs gets a Dell pro 16 inch, I7 with 16 GB ram. C-Suite gets the option on a XPS, IT and Devs gets a MacBook pro is wanted or a 16 inch Dell pro.
Xibby@reddit
Without if you want a computer you can use on your couch, put on your lap, use on an airliner, etc. If you want a numpad you can get a USB or Bluetooth add on.
Numpad means you shift the laptop to the right when typing, so you’re staring at the left ¾ of the screen. It’s just silly.
If your finance person is reconciling the books while in their couch… I would honestly have someone else double check the work.
sleepmaster91@reddit
I personally want my laptops with a numpad as I use it all the time (i login with my pin)
pdp10@reddit
By far, the most common laptop with a numpad is a non-Mac with a circa 15.6-inch display and an offset touchpad. There are cheap devices that meet this description. I'm not certain what an apples-to-apples price comparison would reveal, but I tend to doubt that there would be a big difference.
Real hackers don't use numpads, but your userbase today is surely more diverse than that. It turns out that users sometimes have strongly-ingrained habits from their adding machines or whatnot, and may not appreciate the thoughtfulness that has occurred when I.T. hands out USB number pads.
thebigshoe247@reddit
Always without. Off center trackpads are the work of the devil.
AffekeNommu@reddit
I never use it. Maybe the reporting people do
mithoron@reddit
Still can't quite justify an ipv6buddy yet. Love the idea just doesn't come up often enough.
slugshead@reddit
Depends how portable you want your staff to be?
I always go numpad, but with a full size keyboard connected to a dock and the tenkeyless laptop plugged in.
Brilliant-Advisor958@reddit
We always get the full keyboards.
When you get used to using the number pad, not having one sucks.
And sure you can get an external one, but then it's just another piece of kit you have to haul around to meetings/take on the road.
Ssakaa@reddit
So, for the people that "need" it, everyone else gains an extra pound or two of laptop they don't need?
Brilliant-Advisor958@reddit
I looked at the difference in specs for the think pads we buy and it's just under 1lbs difference.
We don't have the luxury of stocking two different size laptops to meet everyone's needs. So we get one that fits all.
In the years we've been doing this , no one has complained of the weight .
vrtigo1@reddit
Most users don’t care about a numpad and want the smallest/lightest laptop possible.
I’d default to a 14” ultra book and give people the option for something else on a one off basis as needed.
MalletNGrease@reddit
I was always of the opinion to have full size keyboards standard and smaller formats as exceptions. My new place it's the opposite, small is standard and full keyboards the exception.
It really depends on the job. My old employer had more deskbound work with more short distance travel by car so a larger machine didn't matter much. My new one has more travel by plane and a lot of walking inside big facilities so a lighter device is desirable.
BootlegBabyJsus@reddit
Hybrid users work off dock enough that we give a choice. 14” lighter, 15” 10 key, more screen real estate. It’s about 50/50.
ExceptionEX@reddit
The choice should be based on job function, and how the user works. We have staff that won't use a computer without a 10 keypad, we have others that have never used one.
I don't think you can make that choice across the board, or at least I wouldn't.
Ssakaa@reddit
Spec 2-3 sets, generally. Something light and portable for the people who want that, something overly powerful for the "engineers" (available to anyone that wants it), and something with a numpad (may or may not be the engineer option) for the finance folks that can't imagine life without it, and accept carrying around a ton of bricks.
Personally, never have wanted one, never have needed one, and never have used it when I've had it. And absolutely despised being forced to carry around a boat anchor with crap battery life when a 14in latitude would've more than done the job at a tiny fraction of the weight and better battery life.
SmasherOfDaButtons@reddit
I never purchased laptops with a number pad. We supplied docks and external keyboards and mice. 14-ish inch laptops with a dual monitor setup. Zero complaints.
Dave_A480@reddit
My own bias is with because that ensures I don't get a shitty 14incher that's unusable without a dock and mechanical keyboard....
In terms of what a company should standard issue.... Who knows.....
Kyky_Geek@reddit
We give finance people the option to get one with a numpad because they’re the ones that have complained about not having it in the past. They accept the larger size and reduced battery life.
Other users tend to prefer battery life and portability. Charger size has become more important these days too.
gmaneac@reddit
My standard is without and I’ve had no requests to have one. I’ve probably jinxed it now.
miteycasey@reddit
No number pad. If they need one, you can add one on.
MavZA@reddit
Depends on the user. Finance generally want a keyboard because they will crunch when away from the office. Other departments would generally tick the box for a numpad on the requisition request. The laptops would generally be spec’ed equally anyway so usually up to personal preference. Then when it comes to use in office users will generally have a keyboard that has a numpad for when they use the laptop in clamshell mode.
Sad_Mastodon_1815@reddit (OP)
Thats correct. The thing is, for example, we buyed 10 devices at a time to reduce some costs. And we don't no exactly at this moment, which user becomes which device. Because when one device is damaged, sou must give them what you have or wou have to pay extra to buy a device with ghe numeric keypad for example.
norcalscan@reddit
We buy in similar batches as well to keep up with growth and hiring managers who forgot to tell IT someone starts in 2 days. Majority for us are probook 440’s but will try and keep two 460’s on deck for the folks that want a larger screen.
MavZA@reddit
Sounds like a process issue. What I’d do is stack requisitions from your departments until you can get the cost efficiencies you want. That way you get devices that are aligned to user expectations. Then I’d also buy a couple units of cupboard stock if your department can afford them so if you need an emergency spare you can do a rapid swap and then replace the cupboard stock as needed. That’s a basic process that should help your scenario out. Obviously there’s more structured approaches.
Zerowig@reddit
This decision is usually made with portability and screen size in mind, not a 10-key. Users either want something small and portable, or a larger screen.
Any user who needs a 10-key is docking when they’re doing that kind of work.
tarvijron@reddit
I just have a Bluetooth ten key that supplements my Bluetooth 65% keyboard. I have never enjoyed using a numpad onboard laptop, I find it just makes me feel like I’m offset for the 95% of time I’m not doing numerical input and I’ve never been the type to do data entry on my lap.
Daphoid@reddit
Our default engineering model is a Zbook 15 or 16" (whichever the current one, I don't handle them specifically) - but they all have number pads. Great for IP addresses and WHFB pin's and such. No complaints.
twiceroadsfool@reddit
Always numberpads. But I support users in AEC. We would all go nuts without number pads. That's for the actual heavy lifting work tho. If we're getting someone a small 14" surface (or similar) just for comms or email or something, it won't have one.
But even my comms only surface drives me nuts. LOL
lazyhustlermusic@reddit
There’s usb keypads for picky people.
Although I say that as someone who prefers the 10key for raw numerical input speed
Dje4321@reddit
Most places do it per department. Regular workers get standard issue non-numeric keypad models and engineering/tech/finance can opt into the higher end keypad models
Never_Been_Missed@reddit
The only thing I'll say about it as a non-accountant type person is that it is nice to have an enter key right next to the mouse. Other than that, it may as well not exist.
KimJongEeeeeew@reddit
Every user at our company uses an external keyboard unless in a meeting. It’s not even relevant to them when they actually think about how they use the devices. The more important considerations were physical and screen size.
ML00k3r@reddit
Our standard is no numpad unless otherwise requested. As you said vast majority of users will be docked with a full size keyboard at home or in the office.
Only once have I actually had a request specifically asking for a numpad on a laptop as this user worked in procurement/finance and did not have the room at home to setup a desk at home with a dock and external peripherals other than a single mouse.
HidemasaFukuoka@reddit
Just buy without it, if some asks there are usb numeric keypads or you can just buy a regular keyboard as well