Greece: The country where the holy light from Jerusalem on Easter is transported every year on a government jet and given a official state welcoming and then delivered all over the country by police escort, what do you think? Does your country do the same or something similar?

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Le_Fish_In_Lava@reddit

what is the purpose of this, can someone explain?

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narisha_dogho@reddit

Feed on the masses' faith. Keep them busy while they take away our rights (and waste our money).

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Returntomonke21@reddit

The only people who waste their time discussing this are atheists and redditors. The "masses" dont give a crap

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Voncroii@reddit

they arent wrong though,its just a distraction

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Returntomonke21@reddit

Who is it distracting exacly? Only a few chronically online people care and the Atheist union.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Fr most Greeks support this actually lol

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I mean, its a complete non issue and the annual cost of this event is a fraction of what the state spends weekly on all sorts of bloated processes of other kinds. The vast majority of real world people dont care

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notnotnotnotgolifa@reddit

Which bloated processes

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Returntomonke21@reddit

The amount of budget mismanagement that still takes place in every single Bureocratic entity, sector of the state and regional/local governments is insane. The 20-50.000 euros spend per year on the transportation of the holy light are less than what the average municipality spends on a local park cleaning contract

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Le_Fish_In_Lava@reddit

some nagas downvoting for no reason huhh

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Tradition

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MinimumArt8781@reddit

Yes, Romania does the same. It's a waste of public money and all for the opulence of a bunch of rich Fcks in a coat that pretend to have a connection with some mistical fire .....

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CalydonianBoar@reddit

Actually it is openly known now that the Holy Light is lighten using a priest's lighter. The responsible priest of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem has admitted this on camera on an interview with a Greek journalist, that he lights himself the candle inside the Tomb before the Patriarch enters.

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Serious_Sense_6097@reddit

Μπορείς να μου στείλεις αυτήν την συνέντευξη .

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abki12c@reddit

That's a recent innovation. There are testimonies that the Holy Fire is light inside the Tomb miraculously, even outside the tomb in the candles of some believers.

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CalydonianBoar@reddit

Either God stopped helping or they were using matches before. Or chemicals, like phosphorous.

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abki12c@reddit

Phosphorus and matches didn't exist in the 16th century when the Armenians tried to make the Holy Fire come out but a column was cracked and from this column the Holy Fire came out and light the Orthodox Patriarch candles.

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Zeama42@reddit

I used to go to church, on Easter, in my grandparents' village. The highest honour among villagers was to be the first who would take the light from the priest, so as soon as the priest came out with the candles, everyone would rush him.

It was quite a show. One year he pulled back and started scolding everyone, but the candles set fire to some carpets that were hanging above the altar door. Another time he pulled back and the candles went out, so he had to go back and relight them. Pretty obvious he used a lighter. Those were the days.

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Young_Owl99@reddit

I sometimes convinced that Greece is Orthodox Turkey when I see stuff like this.

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Puzzleheaded_Sail729@reddit

Well at least when they do shit like this in Turkey we know it is against the constitution. Does it mean anything right now? Depends and I don't know but at least we have constitutional laicisim unlike Greece, which has a state religion.

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Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit

Fun fact: this tradition was introduced in the 80s by the first socialist government of Greece :p

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Ujemegaz@reddit

This looks comical.

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Alexandros2099@reddit

Sure it does to a Muslim Albanian like you!

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Ujemegaz@reddit

I would rather be a muslim Iranian than this. No wonder your country would nose dive without EU.

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Alexandros2099@reddit

Remember in the 90s all the starving albanians that came to Greece? Don't forget that!Be humble and appreciate how we helped you!

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Voncroii@reddit

no one helped anyone,still treated as a minority

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Alexandros2099@reddit

You are a ungrateful people!we have to be careful with you,you claim foreigner land us your own!

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Ujemegaz@reddit

I have been in Greece only for a transit flight.

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Substratas@reddit

https://i.redd.it/tq9rlo9196wg1.gif

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Zeama42@reddit

I got you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwniDAkU2t4

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Ujemegaz@reddit

https://youtu.be/tIkwblIfrd8?si=PcN40_QYT7zu3bxH

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Zeama42@reddit

Nice, a betting shop

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super_pasrelle@reddit

Wut

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ResidentOpinion1727@reddit

La laïcité n’existe pas en Grèce… l’église fait partie de l’état (malheureusement à mon avis)

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Billarasgr@reddit

Greece is a secular country where religion is separate from state institutions, public education, and law. You may try using another word, such as “ingrained” or “deeply rooted”. Saying that Greece is not a secular country is simply wrong.

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Guor68@reddit

Greece is a secular country where religion is separate from state institutions, public education, and law

That's why we literally have the ministry of education and religious affairs?

Bro c'mon now...

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SE_prof@reddit

Do you know the definition of a secular state?

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Guor68@reddit

Yes, I do. You want to make a point or just here asking obvious questions?

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SE_prof@reddit

No no! Just browsing...

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Guor68@reddit

Cool! Enjoy the browsing and the rest of your day!

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

Greece is not a fully secular state, although it is a democracy with guaranteed religious freedom. The Greek Constitution recognizes the Eastern Orthodox Church as the "prevailing religion," and the Church maintains significant influence over state institutions

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Shtapiq@reddit

Using state owned planes for religious doesn’t sound really secular imho.

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clib@reddit

It is actually a shame.Greeks have one of the most beautiful mythology in the world. Yet they gave their gods away for the god of desert people.

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humbleObserver@reddit

Orthodox Christianity has a significant presence in Jerusalem. The Holy Fire (or Holy Light) is a revered Orthodox Christian ceremony occurring annually on Holy Saturday at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

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baxulax@reddit

Yes, you fkn selfhating wokester. It happens everywhere in the orthodox world. Ah, and it’s called “holy fire”. But I assume you can’t know those things being just 13’ years old.

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Voncroii@reddit

so mad lmao

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baxulax@reddit

I don’t give a fuck about religion, Christianity or the church anyway, but this is tiring

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Returntomonke21@reddit

I love how every year only a tiny minority of the population even cares to discuss it and they always say "ITS ABOUT DISTRACTING THE PLEBIAN MASSES", meanwhile IRL I havent heard it being discussed for longer time than the average redditor is alive.

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Returntomonke21@reddit

Also the cost of this event is calculated at around 20.000 euros annually, or in oter words, so small fraction of the state's budget that even calling it miniscule is too much.

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Ok_Barracuda5074@reddit

i get the urge to get really blasphemous.. i think they have enough money to handle this magician show with private funds.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

You can be blasphemous in Greece now without getting arrested ! Law changed in 2019! Lmfaoooo

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Abrek9@reddit

Why would you insult God or anyone? What do u gain from that other than pissing off people?

Insulting for fun or attention is also a mindset that should be out of date when you turn adult.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

That doesn’t matter

It shouldn’t be illegal to insult one’s god. It can be childish not illegal

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Abrek9@reddit

Thats whats wrong with todays mentality, your saying insult are bad but at sametime its your right to insult someone. Thats whats wrong with todays sociaty that people talk shit because its freedom of speach to abuse someone but if he/she hits back its assault. Its should be illigal abuse people if im not allowed to shut you up, but if wanna debate och discuss the existens of God then not only is it okey, its something we should protect.

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sotos2004@reddit

No one knows why we insult Gods directly. Other countries say bad words for your mom and family , Chinese - Japanese and many Asians prefer to call you dog or pig . But for some reason whe swear our own God . ( well the other person's own God )

Today's youth thank God don't do it so much !!

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anastis@reddit

It came back in 2020

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sotos2004@reddit

This is Greece , no one knows if a law has changed or applies to you . you need the"Counsil of the Masterminds" ( something like that , Συμβούλιο της Επικρατείας ) , to judge what the fuck law applies or even how it's being perceived. One of the reasons why people say there is not justice , since you need a court to judge what the fuck a law means .

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Ok_Barracuda5074@reddit

Exactly the reason why I stopped being blasphemous ;)

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Ok_Complex8873@reddit

Damn. If they really want sanctified light, they can sanctify my $1 propane lighter, which travel in a pocket for free and can be used for the next 100 years.

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VisaSila@reddit

Serbia fucks so hard with Christianity that we are basically back to the state and church being the same entity

Only difference is that instead of Church being on top, it's the state

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Talithea@reddit

Same in Romania, with the added setup of people literally being “you respect God or you are not human”

People happily give money to churches but don’t move an inch to open dialogues about why in the functional suburbia of a city of 80k we still don’t have sewage, sidewalks or asphalt on anything less than provincial main roads.

Church literally snuffs out any kind of hope for a technically functioning society by flattening the will of people into a mere instrument.

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VisaSila@reddit

If it makes you feel any better, your issues in a city of 80k are applicable to Capital City of Belgrade in our case :D

"Church literally snuffs out any kind of hope for a technically functioning society by flattening the will of people into a mere instrument."

Yup, that about sums it up pretty well!

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

The only good remains of communism for us is that it beat the religion out of a few generations of people.

I’m not religious myself

But I’m not an anti religious person I think it’s fine to have faith in god or your beliefs or traditions culture etc and some of that may be based off religion due to the connection historically.

But I don’t think religion has any place dictating how a population of a country lives intermixing with laws or societal norms

Religion and god should be between you and your roof your household not public life. Your belief in god is a personal connection a sacred bond it’s not one to be socialized advertised promoted or marketed towards other people. Nor should it be controlling people who don’t follow it.

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Sweet-Bed2076@reddit

Serbs are hardly religious as many do not even know anything about orthodox religion, most just believe in God and follow tradition nothing else

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apollotonkosmo@reddit

So much stupidity and corruption in one picture.

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wolfm333@reddit

And you want to know the best part. This whole ceremony is a relatively recent affair. It started out during the late 1980's and the idea belonged to the then socialist prime minister's mistress who was a stewardess at the national airline. Great times. By the way, our current "conservative-reformist" prime minister made some noises about stopping this ridiculous ceremony (no more state welcome and government jet) but he backed down as usual. Finally, it should be noted that the whole ceremony has been completely debunked by recent research but the faithful refuse to accept it.

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sp1rt0@reddit

schizophrenia at its best

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Kapoutsinos@reddit

In Greece the government agreed to transfer the holy light from Jerusalem in agreement to church donating hundreds of millions worth of property back in the day to help building a structural state.

The cost is ridiculously minimal compared to the billions of Governments budget. Some times even the Airlines themselves fund the cost. Literally the only people who care and cry are anti religious social justice warriors and chronically online people who are always angry.

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nikostheater@reddit

It’s basically at no cost: the airline does the route with the plane full of paying passengers, it’s a free advertising for the airline and the church has the Holy Light quickly with the pomp and fanfare it deserves for its ritualistic function.

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SAULOT_THE_WANDERER@reddit

jahrein

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HuIk_Bogan@reddit

This isn't an old Greek tradition mind you. It started in 1998, when a guy who owned a travel agency offered to cover the expenses to bring the Holy Light by airplane. It used to arrive by boat, a week after Easter, until then.

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anastis@reddit

1988

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HuIk_Bogan@reddit

Thanks I corrected the post

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levenspiel_s@reddit

Religion is ridiculous.

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itmy@reddit

And they are scientifically inconsistent.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

Goddam Warcraft 3 trailer narrator

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

I like how he held it like the WWE belt

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itmy@reddit

He won the jerusalem wrestler mainia.

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Fantastic-Daikon4577@reddit

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itmy@reddit

The holy fire to light up that blunt💨

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Weird_Baseball2575@reddit

Respect for greece

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dorin21@reddit

We do the same. Fuck this. Fuck the "light". Religion is in your heart, not in the church or in fucking jets!

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Sure. A fire on a plane never caused any problems ever.

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dwartbg9@reddit

gif

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nasosroukounas@reddit

It's a nice, harmless tradition,the only ones bothered by it are the self-hating balkanoids who are constantly anxious about what western -nothern Europeans might comment, the vast majority of Greeks approve it

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Consistent-Low-0@reddit

such an elaborated scam

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Cute_Establishment_4@reddit

Erdoğan is more secular

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Western_Rock9414@reddit

Yeah right, even the army cant organize a coup de etate to overthrow him, a good muslim with otoman intention of a sultan

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WorldlinessRadiant77@reddit

Yes Bulgaria does that too. The President also hosts the Iftar dinner.

Bulgaria is secular, but religion is at least somewhat important for the majority of citizens so the government caters to the two largest denominations.

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chaotebg@reddit

This year we had the discount holy light. It was brought to Bucuresti and Timișoara first by the Romanian delegation, and then the plane came back to Sofia with it.

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Western_Rock9414@reddit

You have luck with us our fellow bulgarian neighbours

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Prod_Meteor@reddit

We are the best at theater and wasting money. Also: the "holly light" was lit by a zippo.

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TheCharalampos@reddit

Traditions are cool but this is silly.

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seanugengar@reddit

Waste of money and a farse

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hairshampoo12@reddit

The Iran of Europe

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Substratas@reddit

https://i.redd.it/q4u0mp4m96wg1.gif

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restlouny@reddit

r/Jaharia

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Worried-Owl-9198@reddit

They use tax money logically lmao

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LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit

It's logical in the sense that most people would find it scandalous if it doesn't happen.

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CalydonianBoar@reddit

Actually the Aegean Airlines owner pays for the transfer. However the Greek state provides the honorary guard. The soldiers salute the Holy Light (provided by a priest's lighter at Jerusalem) as a head of state

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tejanaqkilica@reddit

No, our country isn't ruled by religious lunatics.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

Lunatics yes

Religious no !

Lmao

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topspout@reddit

True

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Mucklord1453@reddit

Greek/East Roman civilization has been deeply rooted with Orthodoxy for 1.5k years. So long as total freedom of religious expression is guaranteed with equal footing, there is zero problem.

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un0hu@reddit

Maximum propaganda machine bullshit.

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hunbaar@reddit

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elorkinus@reddit

I am a non religous Turkish guy and i like those kinds of traditions even though it's a religious think. As long as they dont spend ridiculously high fees those kind of things i do t see any problem.

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kostence@reddit

Total waste of money

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Margelatu76@reddit

Same here. Then, four other planes takes off to the main regions of the country. Doubt they have time to send the light to each and every church or monastery in a couple of hours.

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heatseaking_rock@reddit

Holy matches!

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Margelatu76@reddit

Wonder how it worked 20 years ago? Before this brilliant idea of a private jet.

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heatseaking_rock@reddit

Back then, corruption was higher on the state politics. You did not need a mascarade to siphon some state fonds back then.

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ResidentOpinion1727@reddit

Are you sure it’s a government jet and not part of Aegean Airlines

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fat-wombat@reddit

RIP Olympic

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chrstianelson@reddit

I would rather the government never spends money on religious stuff, except to contain and regulate it.

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Suitable-Decision-26@reddit

Same. Except this year they didn't go.

No, not because they were saving to fuel money to give them to the poor later. It was simply a bit dangerous.

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DayUnfair9694@reddit

Yes, of course.

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More_Ad_5142@reddit

Is Greece even constitutionally secular?

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

Yes, there is no persecution against Jewish or Muslim folks, and in theology class by which every Greek must participate in you learn about all religions.

But yeah we are full of bullshit too

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BeeUnfair4086@reddit

But we were so young back then, does anyone even remember what we did in religion? It was kinda yolo anyway and a very very small part.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

True lol, but Greece is still secular even if the vast majority are Greek Orthodox and the government doesn't hide the fact.

You won't receive higher taxes or be treated poorly through the legal system just because you're of another religion.

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BeeUnfair4086@reddit

The young generation is agnostic, all my aunts or old people are not agnostic. Say to your or any greek parents the sentence: "I want to have a civil wedding instead of a religious one, and i don't want to invite 10000 guests" and watch the meltdown unfolding.

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More_Ad_5142@reddit

The funny thing is that at the beginning of Erdogan governments 24 years ago, agnosticism/atheism was at 3 percent and non-practicing Muslims at 44 percent. At the end of 24 years, agnosticism/atheism is at 11 percent and non-practicing at 64 percent. Just proof that the more you try to shove religion down someone’s throat, the more he will vomit it out.

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Mestintrela@reddit

Yes I remember the bullshit.

I fought with the religion teacher in middle school because she claimed that dinosaurs didnt exist. I was outraged and shouted at her. And this was before the era of smartphones so most of my classmates probably believed it.

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More_Ad_5142@reddit

If you read our constitution, we are militantly secular (it’s not possible to change that provision, you can’t even suggest in Parliamentary proceedings), but in practice we are being more and more religiously oriented, very little by little everyday by Erdogan government so that we don’t notice it. Like slowly poising someone so that they appear to die of natural causes. That’s how I feel.

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