Flat out in the best ever V10s: Lexus LFA and Porsche Carrera GT

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DeusMexMachina@reddit

The 8L topped out at 450hp, these two destroy that number with 2/3 the displacement or less. And they sound amazing, the Dodge V10 sounds like two sick Audi 5 cylinders.

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Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy@reddit

The V10 is really funny for the SRT RAM it went: Truck engine -> car engine -> truck engine. lol

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Mojave_Idiot@reddit

Check that. The Magnum V10 and the Viper V10 basically only share a cylinder count.

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Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy@reddit

Listen, I don't need your facts getting in the way of my head cannon. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

NOTE: For those curious here is what Mojave is saying straight from the horse's mouth. https://youtu.be/aGDdBFbikUQ?si=fCI7f63Nd1rmcuRt&t=228

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AndroidMyAndroid@reddit

I was told there would be no fact checking

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

Not a truck engine, never was.

Engine had to be built on the same line with the same tools. V10 truck engine was already in development so they designed an engine to be built on the same line.

Its also why the viper wasn't dohc. Would have been interesting if sharing an existing line wasn't required where they would have gone.

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AndroidMyAndroid@reddit

Yeah, and on track that UPS truck always delivered.

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

Only in the gen 1. Gen 2 has rear exhaust. Gen 3-5 have side pipes but a crossover pipe.

Gen 1 does sound like a ups truck tho.

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votum7@reddit

My mc22 revs to 20k so by that logic it’s engine is better than the lfa, cgt, Lamborghini etc

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Lefthandedsock@reddit

Yeah, but it’s not a V10, while the Viper’s and LFA’s engine are.

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Velkant@reddit

I mean, it's a mc22. It's fucking awesome

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Bonerchill@reddit

By that math, a Paccar MX-13 out of a Kenworth W990 is a better engine than an S54 out of an E36 M3 because 12.9 liters, though.

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R_V_Z@reddit

I'm going with the RTA96-C. It's over 1800 liters. Per cylinder.

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DanielG165@reddit

I like both. 8.0 liters is simply cool.

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tclark2006@reddit

Kinda is. It's an engine built to withstand a million miles.

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Bonerchill@reddit

And it’s absolute rubbish in a Miata.

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ArthurFinchleyIII@reddit

I guess we should all be driving diesels then, eh?

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halcykhan@reddit

Yes Audi should have had the balls to build the V12 TDI R8. 738 lb-ft > 600 lb-ft

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System0verlord@reddit

It may not do 0-60 in under 30 seconds, but it would be able to tow an aircraft carrier while it tried.

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Mojave_Idiot@reddit

What do you suggest, 2 stroke yard equipment?

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1nconspicious@reddit

The Viper's V10 has way more power potential that both.

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ArthurFinchleyIII@reddit

Yeah well my dad could beat up your dad

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PastPalpitationCry@reddit

Didn't expect to see you here Trollygag

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avboden@reddit

Plus you can make an offroad Viper

show me the off-road Carrea GT huh

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Sarniezz@reddit

Nah it's not even in the top 5 greatest V10s.

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WanganTunedKeiCar@reddit

I raise you the Connaught Type D and its 2.0 L of V10 roar

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GXNXVS@reddit

where is the audi v10 in this list ? it sounds godly and is still being used in gt3 racing right now

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OoIIoO@reddit

The fact that you could get it in a wagon makes it the winner in my book.

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Unfortunately, only the R8 got the V10 from the 2008+ Gallardo, so it was never in a wagon. The V10 from the other cars is much more Audi than Lamborghini. They are in the same family of engines, but don't share the block, pistons, stroke length, etc.

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Shomegrown@reddit

Bore spacing and internet lore are about the only things they do share. Maybe coilpacks too lol.

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420philip@reddit

I never appreciated how good that v10 sounded until the new Lambo dropped down to a v8. We lost something truly special with that one...

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TangerineBroad4604@reddit

Crazy how a 10k RPM still doesn't come close to the V10 sound

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lockpickerkuroko@reddit

It's likely because the Temerario V8 is twin-turbocharged. There are few engine sounds more disappointing when compared with the expectation for a car than supercar TT V8s. The F8 and SF90, the McLaren 3.8, and even the AMG 4.0 are inferior (in my humble, non-supercar-owning opinion) in sound to contemporaries like the aforementioned Lambo/Audi 5.2 V10, 6.2 AMG V8, or Porsche F6.

Turbos just suck up noise, unfortunately. The AM TT V12 sounds nothing like the baritone notes of the old DB9/DBS V12.

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batasrki@reddit

Not just the turbos. Flat-plane crank V8s do not sound good, save for a few exceptions. A flat-plane crank V8 pales in a direct comparison to a V10.

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TangerineBroad4604@reddit

Agreed on all counts

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lockpickerkuroko@reddit

Which is funny because turbocharged engines in motorsport, especially from the early days, can be so charismatic. Think the Audi Quattro (Group B/IMSA)'s 5-cylinder with its turbo chirp and melodic 5-cylinder noise, or the M119 TT V8 in the Group C Sauber C9/C11.

Maybe the key reason is a combination of very harmonic, smooth engine tones (flat-plane V8 or V12) along with turbos sucking up noise. Because cross-plane TT V8s like the 4.2 in the C5 RS6 or TT LS V8s like in the Hennessy Venom GT sound fine.

Or it's because old turbos with their inefficiency sound better.

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GXNXVS@reddit

i saw the lambo (i think it was redbull ABT) for the first time at the DTM finale in hockenheimring last year. i had actual tears in my eyes when it passed by, it sounds so fking good…

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WIP1992@reddit

Its not remotely in this conversation, its comparatively mass produced and not anywhere as exotic as these two. It’s inherently compromised because it’s designed for a completely different purpose, (theoretically) daily use. The other two are not.

The 2UR has titanium rods and valves, revs to 9000rpm, Yamaha tuned exhaust etc. The Porsche V10 came direct from their motorsports program, it’s a race engine for the road.

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agray20938@reddit

The Porsche V10 came direct from their motorsports program, it’s a race engine for the road.

My 996 has this too, but I'll take a V10 R8 if someone's trading.

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GXNXVS@reddit

so because it’s more reliable than the other 2, it’s not remotely in the conversation ? Also who gives a shit that it has titanium rods and valves, the audi v10 can last 24h of hard racing revving to the 9k and sounding damn good while doing so. is that not the point ?

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Bonerchill@reddit

The point is the word best. Not good, not great, best. Plenty of great things aren’t the best things, and best things are typically placed on pedestals because of their uncommon methods of production or the skill of engineering.

A world that ascribes no value to superlatives is a gray one. I’ve noticed a marked decline in the ability of people younger than 30 to accept superlatives as having actual meaning.

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HeatDeathIsCool@reddit

A world that ascribes no value to superlatives is a gray one. I’ve noticed a marked decline in the ability of people younger than 30 to accept superlatives as having actual meaning.

People younger than 30 can attribute meaning to superlatives. They can also do something you can't: know the definitions of words.

Uncommon methods of production or skill of engineering may lead to the best product, but they're not the measurement. No where in your comment do you address what makes those two motors the best over the Audi.

Same goes for WIP1992, who seems to confuse the words 'exotic' and 'purpose' for the word 'best.' In a more literate world, the two of you would understand that those are not synonyms.

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Bonerchill@reddit

I rather intentionally made no comment about the engines themselves because I’ll likely never experience them and don’t care if I do or don’t. I remember the first time I heard an LFA in a parking garage leaving Cars and Coffee in Irvine in 2007 or 2008 and the first time I heard a Carrera GT’s exhaust bouncing off low buildings while eating a bratwurst at the now-defunct Phoenix Club but neither of those experiences means either is good.

There is consistent pushback against expensive and/or exclusive experiences not being worth the cost of admission and being overrated in the eyes of people whose experience with them is nil. They consider exhaust note or power level to be the arbiter of excellence, or something as silly as reliability.

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HeatDeathIsCool@reddit

Yet again you've put forward what you don't think contributes to making something the best, but have been unable to define by what standard the best should be measured against.

There is consistent pushback against expensive and/or exclusive experiences not being worth the cost of admission and being overrated in the eyes of people whose experience with them is nil.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you mean there has been consistent pushback against expensive and/or exclusive experiences by people who consider them to not be worth the cost of admission? As it's worded now, you're saying there's been consistent pushback against the dismissal of these experiences as too expensive.

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Bonerchill@reddit

Thank you, I’ll edit.

The standard for me is character. How fast does it rev in neutral, and does it feel organic? How does it build power? Does it make you feel like the air before a lightning strike?

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Porencephaly@reddit

Who says that those are the two best V10s ever? The Audi/Lamborghini unit sounds phenomenal and has basically the same power as the Porsche unit.

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RamenWrestler@reddit

Haven't heard of any reliability issues for either the Lexus or Porsche. The motors are very very solid, and I'd honestly trust them over the Audi

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ivycomb@reddit

You haven't heard of reliability issues for them because they are both 7 figure cars that were sold in low volumes and have largely been driven low kilometers.

Most owners don't publicly share their experiences with them.

That said, the Carrera GT is something I am familiar with for several reasons. I own an R8 V10 Spyder. I've done a lot of research and had personal experience with both cars (indirect with the CGT and direct with the R8.)

The R8 is a much more reliable car to put high mileage on. The older cars have several common oil leaks but they only manifest if the car has been sitting for a long time or you drive it extremely hard, and they are relatively inexpensive to fix. Other than that, they are tanks. There's a guy in my local community with a Huracan that has 140,000km on it and it's never had a major issue aside from a CEL that was caused by a bad sensor. The CGT has several major failure points that can happen at low to medium mileage. Seals on them go bad fairly easily, and their transmissions are temperamental. Maintenance on them is also significantly more expensive.

If you can afford a CGT though you can undoubtedly afford to maintain one so its not a big deal.

Long and short of it though is that in a vacuum the Audi V10 engine is definitely more reliable than the Porsche motor but that's to be expected considering it has had a much longer development cycle that dates back to the original Gallardo in the early 2000s. It would be bizarre if a motor that had gone through several iterations wasn't more reliable.

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travortz@reddit

I think eventually down the line, we're going to look back and put the audi v10 in the same category of engines. At the moment, there's too much mimesis with the CGT and LFA, mostly due to exclusivity

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Egoist-a@reddit

Where did you get the “more reliable” from?

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TheOneRickSanchez@reddit

No way can the audi v10 be described as sounding "damn good" in comparison to a LFA and a Carrera GT. In a vacuum, yeah it sounds good, but compared to those legends the audi v10 sounds like a bone-stock modern Civic.

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WIP1992@reddit

The article is about the greatest V10s of all time, the 2UR is in a completely different league to the FSI V10. I pointed out those things because as the article states these engines are the peak of exotic engineering, the audi again as I said is compromised.

Also just on sound alone since you seem to be obsessed with that, the Audi sounds like a golf gti compared to these two masterpieces. The 2UR is the greatest sounding engine of all time.

Have a good day my friend :)

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xTRYPTAMINEx@reddit

The "Yamaha tuned exhaust" is a myth.

The exhaust was designed by Sango.

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strongmanass@reddit

It's unclear. Yamaha themselves take credit.

Yamaha Creates Acoustic Design for Engine of the Lexus LFA Super Sports Car

Yamaha and Yamaha Motor decided to base the design on the following two goals: Create an engine sound that reacts instantly to even delicate alterations by the driver in the vehicle’s operation. Effectively convey all of the high-grade engine sound to the driver.

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hofmann419@reddit

In either case, what can be said is that the exhaust system is routed in a specific way to create or at least enhance certain frequencies. There are acoustic chambers that mimic instruments and even special channels to the cabin on the car to improve the sound for the driver.

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HeatDeathIsCool@reddit

There are acoustic chambers that mimic instruments

What the hell does this even mean?

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dreadnought_81@reddit

The commenter you replied to was mistaken. Their involvement was on the intake side. The intake manifold was designed such to create a resonance chamber, which is then piped into the cabin. The design of the intake plenum to create this effect, and the ductwork into the cabin, was the work of Yamaha's musical division. They however were unaffiliated with the exhaust as the other commenters pointed out.

From a Lexus UK press release:

The V10’s induction system was also modified to complement the engine’s acoustic qualities. The uniquely formed horizontally split resin surge tank – a unique design – mimics the acoustic chamber of wind and string instruments: up to 4,000rpm it emits the engine’s primary firing frequency of 300Hz; this changes to 400 to 500Hz as the engine revs climb to 6,000rpm; and a peak is reached at 600Hz as the engine wails towards its 9,000rpm red line.

The air intake is made from a porous duct material to generate bass to mid-range tones. The LFA development team called this acoustic effect Resonated Complex Harmony.

The engine’s induction and exhaust soundtrack are channelled into the LFA’s cabin, so people on board can enjoy the experience as much as those on the outside. The main sound channel that pipes in the engine’s induction notes runs from the surge tank into the cabin below the main dashboard panel.

Two further sound channels run to an opening in the upper cowl on top of the dashboard structure and a reflector panel low down at the front of the cabin. Together with the primary sound channel, these put the driver at the centre of the LFA team calls the 3D Surround Sound Concept.

This is the part that Yamaha (the manufacturer of musical instruments, separate to Yamaha Motor) takes credit for as part of their own press release, which was linked upthread. The word 'exhaust' is entirely absent from Yamaha's write-up.

I've got to say, it's probably far more thrilling to listen to than VW's Soundaktor is. That's a piezoelectric little hockey puck-shaped thing that rattles the windshield. Or, rattled in my case, because the first order of business with my car was to mute it.

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HeatDeathIsCool@reddit

Thanks! I realize my original comment was really curt, but I figured there was something deeper that was being skimmed over in favor of "designed it like an instrument."

It sounds like an incredible piece of sound engineering.

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dreadnought_81@reddit

Prior to this discussion I too would've taken the whole "Yamaha Corporation lead the LFA's sound design" myth at face value too. There's a lot of folklore around this car so it's been nice to see a bit of technical discussion to dispel that notion, and properly attribute credit amongst all the engineering teams.

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xTRYPTAMINEx@reddit

It wasn't created to mimic instruments.

The exhaust was created to mimic the human voice using formants.

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xTRYPTAMINEx@reddit

It's not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crEeOEs4ZP0

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kqlx@reddit

source?

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3MATX@reddit

By this argument the v10 M5 was a great car. While cool, historically it’s shown to be unreliable and expensive to run.

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dphoenix1@reddit

Is there any other modern-ish production car that had rod bearing replacement as a scheduled maintenance item?

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ivycomb@reddit

Yeah, the E92/E90 M3 LMAO

So basically an S85 minus two cylinders

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3MATX@reddit

Haha can ask Viper owners.

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DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit

The 2UR has titanium rods and valves, revs to 9000rpm, Yamaha tuned exhaust etc.

I just started drinking my morning coffee, but isn't the 2UR the 5L V8, while the V10 is the 1LR?

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stevenhatescars@reddit

You are correct.

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jianh1989@reddit

And just won Nurburgring qualifiers yesterday.

That sweet sweet V10 singing will be dearly missed

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SB_90s@reddit

I love my V10 and it sounds ridiculous - still puts a stupid smile on my face after 5 years of ownership whenever I floor it through a tunnel. But I'm not gonna lie the V10 in the CGT and LFA sound better. The CGT is still my all-time dream car.

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leesfer@reddit

Yes, the 5.2 doesn't sound as good but the original 5.0 in the Gallardo sounded better than the CGT and, in my opinion, than the LFA.

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trackdaybruh@reddit

Fun fact: The Rayfield Caliburn in the game Cyberpunk 2077 uses the LFA V10 engine noise

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frozensuper@reddit

Audi v10 is the best v10 ever. These guys are fucking donkeys

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KrazyCroat@reddit

100% agree.

And its abilities are proven to this day.

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ArthurFinchleyIII@reddit

Shh, bro. I can’t afford one yet.

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hoopajoopa@reddit

These are two of my all time favorite super cars.

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hundredjono@reddit

The LC500 is better than the LFA

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RicciRox@reddit

What a horrible take.

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1trickana@reddit

Yeah no

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hundredjono@reddit

Looks better too, the LFA the car for tik tok kids.

Oh and the Carrera GT sounds, looks, and is a better car than the LFA as well.

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PotatoGamerXxXx@reddit

Bait used to be less obvious than this...

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hundredjono@reddit

No, its the truth.

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PotatoGamerXxXx@reddit

Yeah, okay

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TopRamanNoodl3s@reddit

Dang, no viper? I’d wager the m5/6 needs a place here too. Unless they were referring to mid engine cars only.

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raydialseeker@reddit

You can tell when someone is very American lmao

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AndroidMyAndroid@reddit

Say what you will, Vipers set lap records pretty much every time they went around a new track.

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raydialseeker@reddit

And the CGT and LFA didn't. But that's not why they're the greatest v10s ever. It comes down to the sound

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argote@reddit

Is there any V10 other than the truck diesels that does not sound good?

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willpc14@reddit

Vipers with the stock side-exit exhausts sound like UPS trucks

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NSXelrate@reddit

A lot of people sleep on the even firing 5.0 Gallardo. Sounds decent stock, but aftermarket is all race car. Stock CGT and LFA exhaust peaks at 100 dB at full throttle. My straight pipe + exhaust Gallardo is 120 dB at cold start, sounds like an F1 car over 4k RPM, and shoots flames.

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oOoWTFMATE@reddit

We really comparing modded exhaust vs a straight pipe? lol

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leesfer@reddit

He's not wrong though, the 5.0 does sound better, even in stock format.

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xTRYPTAMINEx@reddit

So basically you would be banned from the Nurburgring lol

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Weird_Tower76@reddit

My bone stock C8 Z06 gets banned from the Nurburgring after 1 lap

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noSSD4me@reddit

Kind of a shame not to include the legendary S85 V10 from E60 M5 that utilized Williams-BMW F1 technology. Sure it was a pos in terms of reliability and longevity, but it sounded absolutely phenomenal.

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cerberaspeedtwelve@reddit

I've driven an E60 M5, and I can only say that it's very difficult to feel, hear, or otherwise enjoy the V10 in it. I was expecting something like a Lambo V10 scream. I got a fairly inoffensive, executive-y, not-going-to-annoy-the-neighbors flutter.

The 4.4 twin turbo V8 that replaced it for the F10 generation was far superior. I voted with my wallet and bought one.

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Full beans in second gear.

Quick, someone get /u/smartastic in here and let him know he's finally hit the big time.