How to break down a steep grade in the rain ?
Posted by StoneyDan2499@reddit | Truckers | View on Reddit | 26 comments
I’m a new driver. They taught us to not use Jakes in wet conditions Does this still apply to steep hills and grades ? How do you control your speed down a mountain without Jakes ?
Intelligent-Site7686@reddit
I use them in all weather conditions. Watch where your trailer is on slick roads and be more deliberate and light with braking in general, service and engine
Tutorele@reddit
I don't know why this isn't being mentioned more, maybe it's less commonly taught than I thought. But I highly vouch for the stab breaking method. With Stab breaking, you pick whatever you consider to be your safe speed and every single time that you drift back up to it you will slowly but firmly apply your air brakes until you are about 10 to 20 miles under that intended speed, let yourself drift back no more than five above, and repeat the process. If you do this I advise turning on your hazards because other drivers might choose to be a little more bold and use their Jake, which others have touched on plenty as to how I can still sometimes be fine, though honestly I still tend to avoid them much of the time. I only have two Winters under my belt though, with a bit of time off between, so other people are definitely more experienced. Still they actually had me train an older driver on the account I was on, and he found this method to be a useful bit of insight since he had been taught a "Fanning" method.
The reason that stab breaking is more useful than Fanning quick short breaks, or God forbid just holding it is that you give some time off for your brakes to cool down. I've been down a lot of major mountain passes at this point, and a fair few in the rain, so I can say for her this works, but if you go for this you'll also have other drivers flying past you, still I think it's always better to be safe than sorry so if you go for it, I wish you luck
Far-Transition7341@reddit
engine braking is still your friend even without jakes - just downshift to lower gear and let transmission do most of the work. you want to go slow enough that you're not riding service brakes constantly or they'll overheat and you're screwed on mountain road.
StoneyDan2499@reddit (OP)
I thought engine breaking and Jake breaking were the same thing.
Feeling-Bowl-9533@reddit
Jake brake is a type of engine brake. Engine braking is any form of slowing down that uses your engine.
Jake brakes essentially turn your engine into an air compressor that actively slows you down.
Engines have a “happy place” in their RPM range—when RPMs are above it, the engine will drop RPMs faster if you’re not using the accelerator, which ends up slowing you down. If you drop a gear, your RPMs will go up, which leads to them slowing down the whole truck.
These are both engine braking; Jake braking is an additional system that I believe all modern trucks are equipped with. You can use both concepts in tandem as well, though it will be situationally dependent if you can or should
Casperuis495@reddit
The euro trucks they're bringing over do not have them. Otherwise, great explanation
Feeling-Bowl-9533@reddit
Interesting, do you know if they have some other similar system? Or is it just regular engine braking plus service brakes?
IntergalacticJihad@reddit
Scandinavian mechanic here, engine based brake systems are plenty common here, but they aren’t called Jake brakes. Some mess with the valve train and some are just a valve closing up the exhaust after the turbo before the muffler.
Some trucks are also equipped with transmission mounted hydraulic brake units called retarders for even greater stopping power. Problem then is that the drivers don’t use their normal brakes enough so it all rusts solid lol
Free-University-6497@reddit
They are. Service brakes refers to the pedal.
The main thing with using engine brake in rain is not to slam into the high level brake, as that can break your traction. It's fine to turn it on low and then bump it up incrementally.
HowlingWolven@reddit
That’s the neat part, you don’t.
The school isn’t willing to teach you jaking on greasy grades because A: they don’t consistently have greasy grades to teach on and B: it can be a bit more risky and lead to a tractor jackknife if mishandled.
Learn to use your jakes in the wet and on the snow, get used to how they feel, and be ready to catch any jake locks with smooth, steady air with both hoof and spike. Slow down an extra gear at the crest.
pianodude01@reddit
Engine breaking can be sketchy in the rain because it puts all of your brake pressure on one axle, if that axle spins, you wont be braking anymore. Same deal with accelerating in rain.
By using the brakes, youre decreasing the load on one axle, and using all 5 axles to slow down, giving you less of a chance to spin your drive axle.
The "proper" technique for braking in low traction environments:
What speed you go UP the hill, is the speed you go down, if you did 40 mph, 40mph is all your truck should handle going down
Go 10-15 under your desired speed (refer to above), when the truck reaches that speed, brake untill you're back to 15 under. It allows air to get into the brakes and keep them cool between brake applications.
So you'd ease down the hill at 25, wait till you hit 40, and slow back down to 25 wait and hit 40, slow back to 25.
HOWEVER, modern tires and trucks and stuff dont really have any problem engine braking in the rain. Just ease into it with the lighter brake settings to see how it likes it or not, and drive a little slower. Your power divider can help too if your truck engages it at higher speeds or not.
Mackerbilt@reddit
On high 24/7. Brakes are expensive. Most modern engine brakes will kick off if you slip. You'll be fine. Let er eat driver
vfittipaldi@reddit
Do not listen to these morons! Most people use engine brake in the snow and ice but gently, on steep grades that is. Of course use engine brake in the rain. If not you will cook your brakes.
seawolf_5867@reddit
I have my Jakes on full empty or loaded, unless I'm in snow/ice, then I'll back them off to mid. Low if I'm bobtailing. My trainers told me "you'll only go down a hill too fast one time." Good advice. Take it easy. I haul PNW, lots of hills, usually between 105-126 gross.
RoadWarrior93@reddit
When I question if the traction is good for Jake’s I wait for a straight part of the road, hold the wheel firm, hand hovering over the engine brake, then hit the max jake setting. If you feel slipping you can instantly turn them off. If the truck has traction control you will hear the truck reacting by cutting the Jake in and out. You can use jakes on the lowest setting in just about any condition imo. It’s more when turning or driving light is when jakes can make the truck kick out suddenly. Use on straight roads and ramp up the settings one by one, in corners only use the lowest setting I guess is a good rule of thumb.
DrillTheThirdHole@reddit
low and slow driver
ComeTrumpster@reddit
Just go slow, do use your Jake, just keep in under 15 or 20 and if you want to be super careful only use it when your rig is straight. Be ready to turn it off if you feel your drives start to slip out. I’m 106k gross and I jake all the way down steep passes in 5th gear never slipped out from rain. If you’re making this post you are already cautious enough, you will be fine.
Environmental-Pear40@reddit
I thought the whole "don't you Jake break" was about the trailer coming around. Drives slipping makes sense though.
Environmental-Pear40@reddit
I always use the engine break. Just be aware it can destabilize you. In my experience it's unlikely tho. You kinda have to develop a feel for the truck. If you know how it feels then you can tell if its off. Maybe look up recovery videos to get an idea of what to do if you're trailer starts to fishtail. Idk why they don't teach recovery techniques in school. Seems like it could be important.
RackingUpTheMiles@reddit
I pretty much leave my Jake where it was. I think some trucks designed theirs to be able to be used in rain. That's what my trainer told me about his new Volvo. I just go easy on it. I typically will keep my speed around 55 so it's easier to keep in control should I gain a little speed and periodically apply the brakes with firm , steady, medium pressure. Don't ride them, just periodically apply them to maintain speed.
bobbylou18@reddit
As someone who drives in the pnw. Meaning mountains and lots of rain.
I use my Jake’s alllll the time. Maybe not high as much when empty but still.
TruckerDono@reddit
If you have anti lock brakes, use Jake
msmith7871@reddit
The answer is yes not even on grades. The reason is when you hit the Jake it tries to and can lock up the rear end of the tractor. Having said that you can use them if you are in a high enough gear to prevent that from happening and have experience how they operate......
homucifer666@reddit
I brake as normal, engine brake included. The key is to not apply anything suddenly, everything is super controlled and smooth. Never lost traction due to braking, even on steep icy Montana roads.
CMDR-L@reddit
You can still use the lowest setting in conditions. Hell ive used them in snow.its when you compound jakes AND brakes that might push traction over the edge. Just disengage for a moment when you need breaks, and re-engage, as well as keep you speed low, and be very careful for the moment they re-engage. Its physics, just make sure there aren't any sudden changes in accel-deceleration, or to toi much over all resistance from too many sources on the same contact patch. It's the same reasons they tell you not to accelerate or slow down mid turn.
Hope that helps
StoneyDan2499@reddit (OP)
Thanks man, I’ve found it very hard to get information out of people, schools didn’t teach much but how to pass your CDL exam, trainer can’t be bothered with questions. Everyone talks about how bad the trucking industry has become but when someone wants to actually learn how to be a good truck driver no one wants to teach. At least we have google and social media to ask.