Any BENEFITS to ferrocement?
Posted by milasrobertson@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 31 comments
Since there’s so much hate for ferro boats, it seems like most defenders spend their time arguing “they’re not that bad if there built right,” but are any clear benefits to the material? Like, other than being cheap, is there anything it does better than other builds?
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
The only thing Ferro does better than anything else is exactly what the proponents of it back in the 70s said. For a home builder it’s cheaper than fiberglass to build, and lower maintenance than wood once it’s on the water. Today the biggest advantage is you can get them pretty cheap on the used market.
Almost_human-ish@reddit
But can you even insure an older one?
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
You can self insure anything
Proper_Possible6293@reddit
You can't self insure for liability in any reasonable way, which a lot of the world now requires.
LameBMX@reddit
im not going from current knowledge in the marine sector. but back in the day, vehicle insurance was waivable as self insured if your could prove you had at least the insunce minimum amount in accessible wealth. ie an ira or 401k exceeding enough to cover fees or similar.
but then.. you probably wouldnt be buying a cement boat anyways.
Double_Minimum@reddit
Usually it was putting the lowest amount of insurance needed into escrow. I can’t see them letting you have access to the money, since you could remove it and then be uninsured.
Proper_Possible6293@reddit
For cars the insurance minimums are way lower, and you only have to prove your coverage to a single entity (the state). Boats are more like if you had to show every parking lot you went to that you had 250k+ of liability coverage.
I'm sure if you had a few hundred thousand sitting around you could come up with some sort of bond and then convince every marina and boatyard you visit it's legit, but it would be a major hassle, and as you note, it requires levels of wealth way beyond the old ferro boat demographic.
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
As far as I know only Europe really has strict insurance requirements. Maybe Australia… A couple countries make you take out their local insurance policies (Mexico for example). But at that point it’s basically just an extra cost like a cruising permit. If you’re on a budget cruise you wouldn’t be heading to Europe anyway. USA has no insurance requirements. And most of the cool and freedom loving places of the Caribbean and the South Pacific and Southeast Asia don’t have an insurance requirements.
Proper_Possible6293@reddit
The issue in the US (and a lot of other countries) is that many marinas and boat yards will require insurance these day. So you're correct it's not required, but it can be a major hassle if you can't get it depending on where you are going.
We cruised without insurance on our ferro boat, and it worked for our trip, but I am glad we will have the option to purchase it when needed on our new metal boat.
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
Yeah cruising on my budget. Marinas are a non issue because I can’t afford to go to any of them lol. And any shipyard I stop at would be a ramshackled DIY shipyard way up a swamp who likewise wouldn’t care much insurance. And where I’m from in Maine most people have moorings that are privately owned which also would have no insurance requirements. Don’t get me wrong if you can afford insurance and get it on your boat that’s awesome. But it’s not something I’d let get in the way of a budget trip.
youngrichyoung@reddit
It's fireproof.
SailingSpark@reddit
Ferro has a few benefits.
It's easier to build as it requires far less skill to mold than 'glass or wood. An amateur can lay up a ferro boat fairly easily.
Its a very quiet hull. You will not hear the waves slapping against the hull like on a 'glass boat.
It is resistant to vibration when under power.
Its heavy displacement for its size, with the correct hull shape it will punch through waves like nothing else. Motorboat wakes will nit even phase it.
It stays cooler, a bonus in the tropics, bad in the winter in more temperate climes.
While I doubt it will suffer condensation like a fiberglass boat, it might never really feel dry either.
You never need to worry about rot or delamination
If you have ferro decks, they are naturally nonslip.
Proper_Possible6293@reddit
Having lived in the tropics and cold places in a ferro boat, they are incredibly hot (like inside of hull too hot to touch) in the tropics and in the cold they are just as bad in the other direction. They really need to be insulated like metal boats since the R value of a half inch of cement is basically nothing.
Condensation is awful without insulation, I once reached into an uninsulated locker that was against the hull and not only were my clothes wet, they were also frozen!
Un-cored FRP isn't much better, but at least it doesn't hold the heat into the night.
The only thing they really have going for them is good old ones can be very cheap for a lot of boat. It doesn't make sense for a home build these days with all the available laminating methods for FRP/cold mold/etc. builds. They aren't even really that strong in a collision since cement is brittle.
We lived and cruised on one for five years, and while it wasn't perfect it did what we needed and cost a few thousand bucks. Better to be cruising on a cheap ferro boat than not cruising on no boat.
millijuna@reddit
The real problem is there’s no good way to tell a good old one from one that is about ready to crack in half.
Proper_Possible6293@reddit
This many years later you can kinda tell the good ones just by survival bias and the bad ones are all covered in rust bleeding out from the armature.
But, even though I did it, I still wouldn't recommend it. Insurance can be a huge hurdle if you are places that require it, and there are a zillion cheap FRP boats around to get instead that are better options.
yowhywouldyoudothat@reddit
Are they possible to fix? Like if there is dsmage can you mix up some concrete and patch it up like you would with epoxy on a fiberglass boat?
pirate_starbridge@reddit
Yes, with a mixture of West systems and Portland cement in fact. The biggest downside these days is a) you don't know if a used ferro boat was properly cured when it was built, and b) you cannot find insurance for them, and all but the smallest marinas require insurance these days.
ncbluetj@reddit
Plenty of advantages to ferry cement. Only problem is the one disadvantage, weight, is such an enormous handicap that it pretty much ends the debate.
pirate_starbridge@reddit
Huh, I would think the fact that they are no longer insurable is the biggest downside, now that all but the smallest marinas are requiring insurance for all boats.
StuwyVX220@reddit
Our oldest sailing friends have a ferrocement boat that was built in the 60s. The thing is a tank. The main benefit is how quiet it below, I’ve been eating dinner with them in a force 10 and you wouldn’t know. Also you are in a farroday cage, no signal gets in or out benefit or not it’s a fact 🤣🤷
Westar-35@reddit
EVERY boat flexes. If someone tells you their boat doesn’t flex, they don’t understand boats. What happens to cement when it flexes?
I do understand this is an engineering problem, but the thought experiment is valid
S-platt2@reddit
People thought popcorn ceilings were the coolest thing ever at around that time
PermanentRoundFile@reddit
And asbestos, which they put in the popcorn ceilings!
You'll never guess who's grandparents are stubbornly clinging to their popcorn ceilings lol.
furiousfotographie@reddit
They make excellent artificial reefs when they sink.
Lord-of_the-files@reddit
No microplastics!
sharpescreek@reddit
Are you going to build one?
e1p1@reddit
An old cruising sailor I met in Malaysia 1995, had been sailing his ferrocement boat for a couple decades. He was of the opinion that both the steel and ferro cement boats were safer from lightning strikes because they were electrically selfgrounding and blood off Static electricity. The cement boat because of the rebar. I'm not a Sparky or a Marine designer so I don't know. But he said he'd never known it to happen.
Then there was the story from SF Bay (same period)about a couple who were looking for a cruising yacht were taken for a test sail on one by a broker. Somehow things got wonky and they collided with a freighter, bouncing down the side and being dismasted.
The broker was shocked and mortified, and was apologizing all over. The couple looked at each other and and back at him and said, "This is the boat we want! If it survives a collision with a SHIP....!! Fix it and we'll buy it!"
LastHorseOnTheSand@reddit
In a collision with a fibreglass boat you're probably going to do alright. Aside from that mainly cheap and easy to build for a home builder
Brave-Entrance7475@reddit
3 randos can build one with shit from Lowes in a single weekend.
Tf else were you looking for?
belliegirl2@reddit
i mean, they should be really cheap as no one should want one.
I guess it is kinda a benefit.
I-Am-The-Jeffro@reddit
Not a lot. Perhaps the only real benefit is that - when done absolutely perfectly - is that it has a long and relatively maintenance free service life due to its resistance to corrosion, de-lamination, rot, and osmotic blistering.