I've given up on natural gardening. I can't make it work. What am I missing?
Posted by rbprepin@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 195 comments
A few years ago, a friend introduced me to the Back to Eden gardening method. It involves no tilling, using cardboard to suppress weeds, heavily mulching the first year, and then applying a layer of wood chips annually thereafter.
I diligently weeded and watered by hand, prepared compost tea as fertilizer, and employed a neem oil mixture for pest control. I believed this was the method our ancestors used to cultivate food, so I decided to adopt it in case the economy faced challenges and modern gardening supplies became unavailable.
However, my results were discouraging.
The garden starts out strong in the spring, but by mid-summer, I’m freaking out when I see hundreds of squash bug eggs beneath my squash leaves. Tomatoes fail to set fruit due to drought, and potato plants are plagued by disease. It’s disheartening.
By late summer, the weeds have grown as tall as me, and I’ve essentially given up on the garden. This happens every year.
This year, I’ve decided to abandon the natural, primitive gardening approach and embrace modern methods. While I’ll still use organic practices, I’ll incorporate modern techniques. I purchased a tiller and am tilling up rows, applying weed fabric between each row. I’ve set up drip irrigation on timers and installed insect netting on every row. I’m also using organic fertilizer from a store.
I can’t handle another year of unsuccessful gardening using the “natural” method, but I’m curious to know if others are achieving success with traditional techniques. Where did I go wrong?
illogicalcoder@reddit
Crop rotation is one of the best natural ways to break pest and disease cycles. Group crops by family (e.g., nightshades like tomatoes with potatoes, then rotate to brassicas like broccoli). Track what grew where each year to avoid repeats. Keeping a garden journal so you don't lose track of what was done previously.
Jaded-Drummer2887@reddit
Did you watch the back to Eden video/movie with Paul Gautschi? I believe they put like a foot of wood chips and not just any wood chips it was ramial wood chips(mostly twigs, small branches and the leaves) I believe he also mixed it with chicken manure, so it wasn’t just straight wood chips. In the video there are people who try and fail or doesn’t do the best and then they dig a hole in the wood chips and fill with compost to plant into. You do have to water but it can retain a lot more moisture. He also lives in Washington and I think his area rains about 100-150 days out of the year…. If you have a super invasive weed like quack grass it would probably be best to get rid of that first before laying down your wood chips…
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Yes, I did see the video/movie with Paul Gautschi. It was inspiring. I wish his health wasn’t failing.
I wish I could get all the free wood chips he is getting. I tried Chip Drop and talking to tree cutting services. I just live too far out for most of them to work as a drop site.
norfolkgarden@reddit
What part of the country are you in? Its gardening. The location makes a difference in the suggestions.
norfolkgarden@reddit
FWIW, i wouldn't describe what you're doing as natural gardening. Adding poison (neem oil) is part of the reason you don't have any worms. Neem oil is one of the least bad chemicals. (Arsenic is 'natural', and dangerous poison! Don't get too caught up in the 'natural' marketing.) I choose to skip growing crops that are absolute pest magnets. No problem children, no poison.
C O M P O S T
You need compost. Old leaves, Black Kow from a big box store, whatever. You mentioned your soil is lifeless, and you don't see any worms. Just this year, Till in a few yards (yes, yards) of compost. Next year, and future years, add it as a top dressing. I would buy some bait shop nightcrawler worms towards the end of this year to add to the soil.
Stop adding poison to the soil. Choose plants that are not pest magnets. Let everything rest for a year and just grow easy stuff. By easy, I mean Not pest magnets.
Water properly. Most plants need one inch of water per week. I would try two water once a week deeply. Unless it all runs off. Then, I would try to water it twice a week. If you are just hitting the top of the soil, the roots will never go deeper. Your plants will flop the first time you have three sunny days back to back.
I can't remember the straw verse hay recommendation. One is supposed to produce a lot more weeds. I don't use either. Wood chips from chip drop or pine bark mini nuggets is my first choice. Pine park will (VERY SLIGHTLY) lower your soil ph just a touch. I've never had a problem with.
Weeds happen. It depends on your soil and dirt cover (if any! I like the pine bark nuggets). If you are going with bare dirt, a simple scuffle hoe is a life saver and a back saver. Keep the edge sharp and slide it just barely under the dirt around the weeds. It chops off the top of the weeds. The weeds are not 'removed' just forced to start all over again. The garden plants will hopefully shade out the weeds at some point.
The enormous key to weeding is to never let weeds go to seed. Pull them before they can add 200 new weed seeds to your dirt.
1. Just plant a smaller garden next year. Not everyone has time to deal with a huge garden. Start at half the size that you had last year. Or even just a third. Grow a few easy things successfully and decide what you might want to add to that in the coming years. Lol, if anything.
I am down to some permaculture blueberries, blackberries, a few tomatoes every year and a few peppers. Maybe some okra this year. Lettuce in large containers.
nmacaroni@reddit
Local conditions affect growing.
I can grow tomatoes, peppers, and garlic just by dropping the stuff on the ground. Family in NY gave up growing garlic because they couldn't get it.
Can't grow potatoes no matter what I do.
That's #1.
#2. Bugs eating plants. You're growing nice plants. Learn companion planting that repels them. Learn TIMING to throw the bugs off. DON'T MONOCULTURE PLANT. Predatory insects. There are organic spray alternatives, like garlic oil or orange oil and others. But spraying is always last resort.
#3. Tomatoes drought. Water.
#4. Potato disease. They're aren't getting the right nutrients to be healthy. OR water issues.
#5. Weeds are part of nature. Try to work WITH them instead of against them.
People think I throw seeds in the ground and get great food. It's hardly that simple, but there is a solution to every problem.
Growing your own food IS A HELL OF A LOT OF WORK and demands most of all... attention.
Gojo-Babe@reddit
Do you compost? If not, you should be. Compost helps boost the health of the soil. There are plenty of methods people use, I personally recommend the Bokashi Method + a Soil Factory
Resident-Welcome3901@reddit
Gardening is hard. Even with modern methods and chemicals. Contact your county cooperative extension agent, get your soil analyzed and take every guide to local gardening available. Take a master gardeners class, invite a local master gardener over to critique your garden. Start small, using the plants that they recommend. Plan on gardening work occupying part of every day. Expect to continue to have failures, because everybody does, because gardening is hard.
Fluffy_Efficiency623@reddit
Tip from an indoor-only gardener (so take with a grain of salt): There are multiple forms of life that will increase the availability of nutrients in the soil for your plant. Mycelium (the underground part of mushrooms) has been known to trade nutrients with plants to get what it needs from them. There are also things like little white millipedes that eat wood materials like mulch and make the nutrients more available in the soil. Plants themselves are pretty hardy if they have a good root system, but if the environment isn't set up well they aren't going to thrive. If you can, figure out where the bad stuff is coming from. Like how do the squash bugs and weeds get there? Is it worth a one-time expense to just straight up replace the soil so there isn't a bunch of unwanted stuff lying dormant in it?
sandmanvan1@reddit
There are a lot of ways our ancestors farmed, I don’t necessarily think you have to commit to one concept if it’s not working. The goal is to maintain the health of the soil and it’s biome.
You might consider rotating locations of your crops so that insects, bacteria and fungus that are often specific to one plant type have a harder time attacking. It doesn’t have to be particularly far but flipping sides on a 20 foot bed can be beneficial
Ok_Coast_3238@reddit
All the things that you have discovered, and will continue to refine, as you discover new truths and as your enviornment and the creatures that live in it change, is why preppers say that you cannot assume that you can start gardening for the first time after TEoTWAWKI.
fauxrain@reddit
You needed water. You don’t need weed fabric or tilling. Water, water, water. In appropriate amounts. Plants dying from drought have no resistance to disease. You also need to manage your garden, pulling out diseased plants or leaves early so they don’t spread. Start listening to the Joe gardener podcast. Start from the earliest episodes. Telling him just damages the vast network of life in the soil that gives support to the plants. It’s not gonna help anything you’re mentioning. Weed control is done through appropriate mulching and hand reading, which is very easy to do if you’ve adequately mulched.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Ok, hear me out.
First off, I completely agree. You have my upvote.
But also, I didn't spot a single worm or fungal networks in the soil I tilled up. There was little organic material, most clay, so the soil wasn't retaining water which I think is a big reason there wasn't any worms or bacteria.
When I tilled, I did a first pass which removed a lot of rocks, but my second pass was mostly tilling in hay mulch, aged chicken manure and kelp meal. So I think tilling is actually a huge net positive in this case.
You are 100% right on the watering though. Late summer, when the heat is near 100 degrees, I just plain didn't want to spend an hour each day hand watering. If the garden was our main source of food and I didn't have a job that would be a different story, but I just felt this year given my work responsibilities, drip irrigation on a timer was the smart choice. Your point stands that watering is key though.
I'm having a hard time sourcing wood chips. My best source of mulch is hay, and it always starts out great as a weed suppressor, but by the time summer rolls around it's mostly broken down and weeds are breaking through. I'm really not sure what the solution is for that right now. I'm hoping the weed fabric will suppress the weeds in between the rows and I can just hand weed the rows themselves.
livinglifethisway11@reddit
Ahh after posting I saw this. I also have clay. That's your issue.
Clay becomes essentially concrete and the roots don't get to spread. The water and top soil washes away instead of in the ground.
Tilling will cause it to compact even further.
My advice above stands. But I am adding to that...
Not sure where you live, but you can call tour local tree services use the chip drop app and theyll drop 5 to 10 yards for you next time they are in the neighborhood. I have never had a problem with disease, because any disease it might have is a tree disease. It is hot, so it breaks down relatively quickly.... but not so hot it will cause problems. I use that around my planting beds where I walk and it slowly feeds the adjacent beds as it breaks down.
You will have to follow the lasagna gardening/hugelkulture, however you will need a much higher amount. You'll need 12 inches of soil once it has broken down, because tomatoes are deep rooted. You will want to put some logs around the beds to keep the soil/plant matter in place or it will wash away from the clay. As all of that breaks down nature will do its job (worms etc) and the organic matter will go down into the clay below. By the time the logs break down, you will have amazing soil. Just top dress it with more. I shred leafs with a mower to help them break down more quickly (there are off grid methods as well... but the easiest is to toss everything listed below in a pile for a season and add it half finished when the leaves are broken down some) add some ash from a firepit.... add some greens and bury food scraps under that to keep the soil happy when I put it to rest. Alpaca manure is weed free... abundent and often free from local farms... and doesn't need to be aged before applying.
Clay is a bear to deal with. Anyone who claims it can be fixed through tilling, sand or other amendments does not know. These things only make it worse.
If you want to use less plant matter and not have the beds raised so much... daikon radishes. Plant later in the summer and let them die back and rot in place. The deer/rabbits will eat the tops but don't worry about that. Farmers call them clay busters.
TrilliumHill@reddit
If you have a heavy clay soil, tilling in organic material for the first couple years is probably a good way to build it up. Bio-char worked wonders for our soil. Our previous place was very sandy, and we tilled in a lot of browns the first 3 years. For our clay beds, I've been tilling in char and mulch for 3 years now, each year I try to add more clay and have my beds raised up about 5 inches now. My hope is that got organic material deeper than the tiller.
Be careful with fresh wood chips, they can increase the pH of the soil. If you already have a high pH, it might push you over the point where some plants start to struggle.
I have respect for the concept of back to Eden gardening, but I also know that the hoe is as old as the wheel, and they probably started out in prime areas. Once you get a bed started, I've found it much easier to go no till, but I also don't think there's much damage being done by scraping the top half inch of soil with a hoe to weed.
Also, chickens. We'll let ours into the gardens. Obviously not year round, but I think they help with bugs and weeds. Once tomatoes and potatoes get established, they won't bother those plants (they will go after ripening tomatoes though), other things, like green beans, they will devour, so be careful.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I had chickens in my garden last year, not because I wanted them there, but because I was free-ranging them, and a few would fly in. The biggest problem was that they would scratch up the garden beds in search of bugs. It was incredibly annoying!
PissOnUserNames@reddit
Ditch the chickens get ducks. They will eat the pests bugs without scratching up your garden or pecking your veggies as much as chickens. They will snack on lettuce and young sprouts though.
The biggest problem with ducks is the water they require but you keep a pool for the ducks the duck water is a great cold fertilizer for the garden. If you got the appropriate elevation change you can set it up to drain the pool and irrigate the garden at the same time.
Utter_cockwomble@reddit
For wood chips, get undyed mulch. And it sounds like you need a mid-summer reapplication of the hay. It does break down quickly.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I was slacking on the mid-summer application. Not going to lie, the motivation to be unrolling round bales of hay in the heat of summer was not high. lol
Chance_Contract1291@reddit
Gardening is surprisingly hard work. If you can get out early in the twilight hours before sunrise it's easier. And if you can't, soak your shirt and hair from time to time. It's amazingly helpful at keeping you more comfortable in the heat
Skimmington16@reddit
Fall leaves are the best mulch imho
bodybyxbox@reddit
Agreed! If you have access to a woods, there are free piles of half decomposed leaves that are often blown naturally into piles next to trees or in sunken places.
asmodeuskraemer@reddit
is sad in black walnut inundation
OneLastPrep@reddit
Burn them. Burn them all.
asmodeuskraemer@reddit
No, I like them!!
Skimmington16@reddit
Do you eat the walnuts?
asmodeuskraemer@reddit
Yes. Not all of them, the squirrels get them, but they aren't awful to be harvested. Cracking them is what sucks. They make amazing cookies.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I had an older gardener friend who tilled leaves in his garden each year. I thought it was a little overkill at the time, but his soil did look pretty good. Dark and rich.
Suspicious-Essay219@reddit
There’s no need to till leaves, if you apply a couple of inches in fall they mostly break down by spring. what’s left can be used for mulch to retain moisture. I do this and the worms go wild for the leaves. In spring I can‘t stick a finger into the soil without hitting a worm.
Skimmington16@reddit
I always feel bad when I plant the garden- so many worms cut in half :-/. My leaves just sit atop the soil all winter in the fenced in garden & enough are integrated by the worms that I just use the rest as mulch.
CurrentDay969@reddit
I till my garden loosely every year. I also have heavy clay and I have to amend with sand and compost as I rotate what I grow. My soil is black and filled with worms and fungus. I use hay and leaves and a consistent watering schedule.
Clay gets compact so easily that I feel it needs to be worked or it turns to brick.
I found for the pest problems, a lot of companion planting. I surround my beds with basil, marigolds, mint pots etc and it tends to keep the pests at bay. I also have a large pot of sacrifice plants for the critters a bit a way from my garden near a magnolia that keeps them distracted.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
That sacrificial plants is an amazing idea. Never thought of that.
_learned_foot_@reddit
I have some specific fruits I grow for the animals, keeps the, happy and they won't dig for the same just a little bit away as a result (lazy, cute bums).
CurrentDay969@reddit
Nature is going to take it's slice lol.
Whether it's my toddlers or my German shepherd stealing my strawberries. Or the caterpillars eating my dill. I have just planted an extra plot that I don't tend to as much and let it run wild for it to do what it pleases.
I find if I am messing around in the garden everyday they don't like to be disturbed or I can catch them and move/remove them. I leave the spiders as much as they creep me out.
Utter_cockwomble@reddit
I plant extra dill and parsley for the swallowtail caterpillars. They also like lovage. Supporting the next generation of pollinators!
CurrentDay969@reddit
It's my first year planting lovage! I'm curious as I am not familiar with it, but will find a use.
My kids love our monarch garden. We are getting lots of bees and butterflies and we even saw fireflies last year. ❤️
Utter_cockwomble@reddit
Lovage is great- it's like a cross between celery and parsley. And it's a perennial- survived our single digit temps and ice storms! It died back to the roots but as soon as the soil warmed up a bit it sprouted.
Use the young leaves like parsley. The older leaves are a bit tough and can get bitter but I use them like celery tops in soups or strews to add flavor. A whole stem in, then pick it out before serving.
CurrentDay969@reddit
Perfect! I'm in WI so I appreciate a hardy perennial. I'm a bit of a chaos gardener. If it survives it survives lol.
I'm so excited to try! Thank you for the suggestions
ragun2@reddit
It's just a bunch of black walnut here. Heard that's bad lol
Internal_Raccoon_370@reddit
Stop using hay for mulch for one thing. I'm a retired farmer. Hay and straw always includes weeds and weed seeds unless the grower sprayed the hell out of it with herbicides. So every time you use hay or straw for mulch, you're also re-seeding your ground with more weed seeds. The best mulch I've found is pine shavings that are used for bedding for small animals. That's worked the best for me.
Also note that contrary to popular belief, using wood chips/shavings does not leach nitrogen out of the soil.
As others have accurately pointed out it seems your biggest problem is failure to provide adequate water for your crops. Going to a drip irrigation system will solve a lot of your problems.
Remember to always take what you see on places like Youtube with a very large grain of salt. A lot of these people who show off their beautiful, immaculate gardens and all that and claim they achieved that with no work at all and so can you if you follow their channels, etc. are flat out liars. They aren't gardeners or farmers, they're "influencers" who make money through pushing products for advertisers and by gathering subscribers. I've been at this for 72 years, and there are no quick fixes, no miracle products, no "all natural" insecticides or herbicides that will fix all of your problems. There are things you can do, planting techniques, crop rotations, etc. that will help to reduce harmful insect infestations and things like fungal problems, but there's no way you can avoid the fact that it takes time and work to have a successful garden.
fauxrain@reddit
Tilling as a first step when you are creating a new garden is fine. But you then need to build your soil using organic material so that there’s something for the water to hold onto. You don’t want to till every year to “start fresh“ like some people think they should.
Starfishprime69420@reddit
You can also do a lot of harm tilling if the soils is either too wet or too dry
TheBizness@reddit
100%. if your soil is already pretty lifeless then an initial tillage to work in compost is a huge net positive. the important thing is only doing it the once and then letting the plant roots / mycorrhizae / soil life handle of it from there
PotatoPillo@reddit
Yes, please don’t till again.
Either_Wear5719@reddit
If you are US based you can check out Chip Drop. You can get free wood chips from local arborists. Or just call arborists in the area and ask if they have a program for gardeners
relianceschool@reddit
Where are your weeds coming from? Mulch serves two purposes when it comes to weeds:
Two thoughts on what might be happening here:
This is why Back to Eden recommends wood chips, as they don't have either of these issues. That said, I think BTE is better-suited to perennial crops, as it's a pain to rake back the chips when you need to plant or seed.
theTrueLodge@reddit
I watered more this last cycle and it is making a big difference with my garden. Plants are lasting longer and growing bigger. You have to nurture them, and that means watching them. Daily. When I start seeing pests, I remove them. Neem oil or physically. Some plants don’t need as much water and some need it daily. Some need it twice a day.
HarpyCelaeno@reddit
I found out our city has a super cheap compost and leaf mulch bulk supply. Give yours a look. That’s what I will be turning to when i finally get away from raised beds and get my clay ammended. And I’ll probably till once, like you, to get a head start. HEAVY mulching is a necessity for moisture retention of course.
Posts like yours help a lot of us plan so please update with your successful changes too. Thanks and good luck.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I will certainly share some updates. I didn't expect such a great response and ideas/suggestions. It's been great reading the comments.
I'm relatively new to reddit. What's the best way to share garden updates, leave comments on this post or make a new one with updates?
HarpyCelaeno@reddit
Just make a post. Adding pics will obviously get more responses. You could take a before picture now, then the after pic of your luscious garden next year and post them so we can ooh and ahh. Or you might come back saying “don’t do what I did.” Lol. Looking forward to it.
Mission_Reply_2326@reddit
When you first create a garden bed, there’s a lot to go into that. I like the double dig method - and amending all that soil with compost or raised bed soil. You can’t garden in clay. If it’s all clay you would need to replace the clay with soil (FTR I have never made a garden in all clay, I have always had soil that just needed amending, but I can’t imagine gardening in clay).
anthropomorphizingu@reddit
Not knowing much about back to Eden, why compost tea and not just straight up composted soil to add to your clay?
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Compost itself is great. Lot of nutrients and minerals that help the soil.
Compost tea is slightly different where you take plants that are high in certain elements like nitrogen or potassium, and you steep it in rain water with some molasses. The molasses feeds the beneficial bacteria and the population explodes.
When you pour the compost tea on the plant, you're inoculating the soil with both the nutrients and bacterial plants need in a form that's readily available to them.
Let's say your body needs vitamin C to fight off a cold. Compost is like eating an orange. Compost tea is like taking a supplement with 1000% your daily recommended dose.
Amazing-Fox-6121@reddit
Compost tea is compost in aerated water. Great for microbial application.
What you described is closer to a Fermented Plant Extract
ivankatrumpsarmpits@reddit
I do similar no dig, not from back to Eden but Charles Dowding. Based on what I've learned from him, I think tilling isn't going to fix anything for you, but your soil needed more fertility and life. On top of your cardboard, what kind of stuff did you put down? I think the back to Eden project was based on pine needles or something like that which would take a while to break down into the soil. You mentioned mulching heavily, did you put down a good layer of compost that was well rotted and ready to use down on the cardboard? I've used that technique and there really should be life in your soil if it's compost and had plant roots in it.
If you start with decent compost and remove weeds at the start, you should not need the compost tea or other fertiliser except when it comes to heavy feeders like tomatoes. I grew everything last year in just compost with the exception of tomatoes, zucchini and peppers which I fed natural fertiliser as they were fruiting. I wouldn't expect a compost tea type thing to be sufficient for those, at least not in my garden where I have to plant things close as I don't have space. If things were drying out you needed to water more. I grew things really close together last year and used herbs and strawberries and salads as cover for the soil between things and it worked great at maintaining moisture, although it might not have given the biggest harvests possible. It was also beautiful just having green and life everywhere!
By all means use insect netting and things that aren't natural if they make sense and don't harm your soil or animals or plants or introduce pollutants. And gardening is always hit and miss. Don't expect to get everything going well in year one!
Utter_cockwomble@reddit
Not the OP, but compost tea is liquid and quickly available to stressed plants.
Amazing-Fox-6121@reddit
If all you can source is straw mulch then just apply more straw mulch. It breaking down is a feature, not a bug
mrszubris@reddit
Soil nematodes that your ancestors had have been depleted. I use predatory insects and nematodes from Arbico Organics.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I’m unfamiliar with Arbico Organics, but the concept of utilizing predatory insects is ingenious. I’ll delve into this further!
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Liming will also help a hard clay soil structure. We are in GA and it's a heavy clay/sand mix here.
Ancient-Claim-5487@reddit
I have switched to flower gardening. Every year, I would spend so much time, money and effort for so little return. I was mostly container gardening and my raised bed friend and I hit a sale at Lowes on the Miracle Gro organic soil a couple years ago. Everything we both grew was leggy, very few leaves and the produce inedible. She ended up removing the soil from her raised beds and giving it to her neighbors as fill for holes. I was so disheartened that I did nothing last year. This year, I have been dumping those containers into holes that the dog has dug and leveling out an area where an old shed was taken down over the winter. I am focusing on getting the lawn healthier and putting in drought resistant perennials and native plants. It is making me happier. Will I be able to grow vegetables in a pinch? Yes. Is it actually cheaper for me to buy frozen, canned, or freeze-dried vegetables. Ultimately, yes.
I think I was meant to grow flowers so there are bees to pollinate everyone else's veggies.
Cronewithneedles@reddit
I have a perennial garden in front of my house. At one point I included goosenecks (loosestrife) which I love. Many years later and it has taken over half of the garden - very invasive. I’ve been getting into foraging lately and decided to google if the goosenecks have any edible or medicinal uses. YES! to both!
SoCalled_Gardener@reddit
You can till once in the very beginning of the area. To amend or introduce organic.
-Thizza-@reddit
This. My biggest improvements were all water related, adjusting my irrigation schedule constantly and mulching to prevent evaporation. I also made special shade tents to cover my raised beds in the relentless summer months in July and August. Failures are part of the experience and they'll never go away, you just better adapt to them.
livinglifethisway11@reddit
It almost always comes down to soil quality/nutrients, plant variety selection, and beneficial microbes/insects.
All soils are different, so I don't have much advice for you as it would be mostly specific to your area. But tilling isn't going to stop squash beatles. It will harm the beneficial life living in your soil. It'll also cause a boom of weeds as the stuff laying dormant will now germinate.
A couple of tips... rain barrels are your friend. Hose water keeps them alive, they thrive with rain water.
Traditionally, growers would add infrastructure to direct water where it was needed during dry spells. Only a very few places can make it without additional water at some point.
Rotational grazing... obviously if this is a small garden that isn't an option. However... any time I see pests, I set a couple of hens after them and the problem is taken care of pretty quickly. Vermicomposting is a great option for soil health.
As for weed control... yes cardboard. Read the book Lasagna Gardening. To keep moisture in the soil for less watering, consider hugelculture (just use free/cheap slab wood). And don't forget to top dress with a mulch of some kind (spoiled hay is a good option) for moisture, slow nutrient release, prevent fungal issues, and to keep the annual weeds from germinating.
Be sure to have early season through fall native flowers for pollinators nearby and leave some areas untouched until late spring so they have somewhere to over winter and hatch. Good bugs kill bad bugs.
Some things it is about timing. People tend to put tomatoes and peppers out too early, plant lettuce too late. You want to have things producing year round based on when they do best, rotate what is grown in each bed, and leave some beds to rest with an annual cover crop.
Last, I like reading the comments on the Bakers Creek website. I look for varieties that people report doing well in my area/under similiar conditions. I don't always buy from them (something common like say... Kentucky wonder pole beans... can be found at the dollar tree.)
In essence.. you need to create a mini ecosystem to draw the things you want to your growing area that will keep the things you don't want out. Provide good growing conditions for what you are planting, and you won't need to do much to keep it going.
np8790@reddit
Weed fabric is the devil. You will regret putting it down, it’s just a question of how much and how soon.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Really? How else do you control weeds between rows? I've tried mowing and that's ok for the flat parts, but the grass just grows up the side of the rows where the mower can't reach and invades the rows.
I've tried woodchips and they just break down and create fertile ground for weeds. I'm out of ideas.
Mission_Reply_2326@reddit
I dig all the soil up and remove any trace of grass roots. I also don’t have much in the way of space between my plants… but if I was doing rows, I would remove all traces of grass roots from the soil and put down a thick mulch in the walkway.
Camila_flowers@reddit
Weed seeds come right in on wind and bird poop. Removing the soil is such a waste.
Mission_Reply_2326@reddit
I didn’t say to remove the soil. I said remove the roots from the soil.
Camila_flowers@reddit
wow, reading comprehension fail, lol. I totally read that as "dig up the roots with soil"
Mission_Reply_2326@reddit
It happens to the best of us sometimes!
Camila_flowers@reddit
There is no way to garden without weeding. Our ancestors spend hours a day on gardening.
Gardening might not be for you, if you don't want to weed that badly.
Hot-Profession4091@reddit
I intentionally plant clover between rows. Some folks use cardboard and wood chips. There will be weeding to be done.
PotatoPillo@reddit
I put down a few layers of cardboard between rows, with wood chips on top. And then keep on top of weeding.
np8790@reddit
Not sure what to tell you. Gardening is weeding, at a fundamental level. Personally, I’ve just let ground cover take over the areas between rows, and focused on pulling big weeds by hand.
But seriously, weed fabric is just awful. It breaks down and you’ll spend the rest of your life picking strings of plastic out of your soil. Not to mention the fact that if your weeds are as aggressive as you seem to suggest they are, they’ll blast right through that stuff anyway.
city_druid@reddit
“Gardening is weeding, at a fundamental level” is straight truth. You’re basically maintaining a disturbance-dominated regime, which favors scrappy pioneer species.
Skimmington16@reddit
There is a biodegradable version. Have never used it- heard about it from this lady https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie-8ZbiKt9M
TheVedette@reddit
I tried doing the whole organic thing and the bugs were like, sure, spray me with that weakass Neem oil. Imma just keep eating.
idfkjack@reddit
You can buy ladybugs and praying mantis at most nurseries. Also planting things that attract pests away from your food crop can help.
3rdgenerX@reddit
Chickens love weeds
idfkjack@reddit
And bugs!
darthrawr3@reddit
No one's mentioned olla pots yet?
Anyway, here's another opinion: In addition to companion planting & adding things that attract beneficial insects, I'd pile on the organic matter to offset the clay, never ever till again, & use DIY olla pots (terra cotta planters, made in Italy, to avoid any heavy metals or other sketchy materials) for water management
idfkjack@reddit
I live in the desert and I tried ollas this spring. They are already out of the ground because they attracted millions of ants and roach babies before getting clogged after the second use.
-jspace-@reddit
Your soil wasn't prime for that method. Bugs prey on weak plants.
Here's a reason not to use pesticide spray of any kind: the residue has been found on milkweed plants miles from the spray site. Please don't contribute to the extinction of monarchs.
Weeds don't need anything but back and elbow grease to control. Get out in your garden every day.
Unless your soil is top notch you will need to irrigate. Get a meter and a system.
th30be@reddit
Seems like you just didn't know that your plants needed water. Died from drought? Because you refused to water them.
Mr-Measure-Twice@reddit
If you are in the USA, you should contact your county's master gardener program for advice/guidance.
I applaud you for what you are doing as one aspect of preparedness.
bugabooandtwo@reddit
\^This. Knowing what zone you're in and the particulars with the soil and weather in your area will help you a lot.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
I am the inverse. I tried modern methods first and only found success with permaculture methods. 95% of the problems of a garden are soil based.
You need soil that is biologically active, retains moisture, will clump together in your hand when you squeeze it but will break apart. Best way is compost.
Pest control: lady bugs and praying mantis can be bought at most garden centers. Plant catmint around the edges. Diatomaceous earth is a good nuclear option.
You need to plant like nature does. In layers, Trees, shrubs, plants, vines and ground cover.
bugabooandtwo@reddit
That sounds like the food forest method.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I love the permaculture ideas and have read a fair amount of it. I guess I'm just having a hard time executing it correctly, or maybe I'm not knowledgable enough. I tried finding a permaculture landscaper in my area for advice, but I'm pretty rural and most landscapers don't focus on food production or understand permaculture.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
What’s wrong with my vegetable garden by David Deardroff is a great book.
https://a.co/d/0bGTyrdM
Bent8484@reddit
Those methods are not really traditional, though, it's just what trendy influencers tell us is traditional.
To deal with drought, build hugels over shallow trenches. Instead of compost tea, make real compost. Neem oil is not selective enough, instead rely on bio-controls, mechanical removal, cinnamon, capsaicin, and water with a bit of dish soap... depending on the pest you're dealing with. Plant companion flowers that attract insect predators, like sweet alyssum, as well as companions that bring in pollinators, like borage. Dill and fennel will attract parasitic hoverflies that eat squash bugs, so place them near your cucurbit beds, or grow them in pots that you can move around when needed.
Your_Wifes_Grlfriend@reddit
Ok, don’t give up. You went wrong by giving up and not learning from your mistakes. First- check your local agriculture extension service website for local planting timelines and for a list of veggie types that do well in your area. You might need to adjust your planting expectations. Second- Learn about more about native plants in your area…some of those “weeds” can be flowers, edibles, nitrogen fixers or natural mulching plants that your garden needs to thrive. Third- set up a rain water collection system (you can hook up your drip system to it with enough gravity pressure). Rain water naturally has nitrogen in it. Fourth- no more tilling and start mulching more, like thick, mulch. It will decompose and provide nutrients and organic matter to your soil. You will have to reapply. Use your own yard waste as mulch (dried grass clippings, leaves, chippy chop your own tree limbs). The soil microbes and mycelium will return if you treat your garden regeneratively (microbes make for a happy garden).
I use 100% organic regenerative permaculture techniques in my garden and always have an abundance of food and bugs. I use companion and native planting to give the bugs something to eat (that isn’t my food). I make my own compost and mulch and my gardens are on a rain water drip system. It’s taken me a few years to learn my local cycles, but my garden and ecosystem have never been better. As soon as you make your soil healthy again, everything will be easier.
bidoville@reddit
Focusing on soil health, composting, and learning a shit ton.
Probably took me about 5 years before I really felt dialed in. That was about 15 years ago. It is absolutely worth it to learn.
And the best gardeners are just people who have killed more plants than you.
Highly recommend r/bokashi for composting all good waste fast and safe, even meat.
YetAnotherIteration@reddit
Hey man, at least you don't also have to deal with deer and squirrels 😂
sirslappywag@reddit
Don't start off with such a large garden, only plant as much as you are willing to spend time weeding a few times a week. It doesn't matter what you are doing for soil preparation the only way to keep the weeds in check is by hand. Learn what works for you in your specific climate to make it easier on yourself, but you will have to pull weeds either way.
Try to pick out a few types of plants and only grow like 5, take notes and learn what the specific plants needs are and how they handle your climate. Once you have an understanding of what you will need to grow at a larger scale will make it much easier to keep your garden in control and have less of a letdown. Gathering knowledge is much more important now once you have the experience and get a reliable understanding of how much time/energy/resources it takes will help you get more of what you want and keep your input to a lower level.
It's also important to keep your expectations reasonable, if growing your own food was easy stores wouldn't exist. If you're expecting a large reliable food source from gardening you're always going to be disappointed maybe focusing on a specific crop that you can harvest and store long term. Like corn learn how to can it and you have sweet corn all year. You can grind it into flower, if you're thinking about post SHTF being able to make corn whiskey will be a major boon. Having a surplus of one highly used food will be much more noticeable in terms of money saved and personal achievement.
Locabilly@reddit
If the weeds are that tall you're not keeping up with them. If the tomatoes are failing due to drought you're not watering them enough or they're not mulched enough. You can't just say I'm doing X and then not keep up with basic garden maintenance.
Locabilly@reddit
And between squash bugs and vine borer i gave up on summer squash years ago.
Useful-Contribution4@reddit
I just do tall metal planters. Saves me on knees and back.
Rotating plants are key to keep insects off.
The main thing I deal with is slugs. But beer takes care of that.
Neem oil never works for me.
Try different varieties until you land on one that does well. Its natural some things dont grow in your location with too many predators.
For fertilizer i stick with fish oil and composting. And have dry fertilizer for backup.
Kooky-Struggle4367@reddit
I've watched the back to end video. I am no dig/till. I don't do the wood chips in my beds like back to eden. I do put an inch of compost every year. I have some weeds still. They never go away. But I don't have a lot of weeds.
Once established the plants can survive a two to three week drought as the deep moisture is there. I may use straw, grass or leaves if available for a mulch.
Pests... Always have them. Just have to stay on top with the natural treatments. Mostly cabbage worms or cucumber beetles.
ballskindrapes@reddit
I just find the whole back to eden thing cringey, as it's just rebranded organic gardening, just marketed to christians.
Like the ideas work, they are just copied by a religion.
Looking up Korean natural farming and imo more ideally jadam is the way to go.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Never heard of Korean natural farming or jadam. I'll check it out. Thank you.
IamCassiopeia2@reddit
I've been practicing permaculture for 15 years now in screaming hot high desert country. Every year I try new things. I have done 4 experiments now in the last 4 years with KNF. It has seriously surprised me. I used the recipe from the University of Hawaii. Definitely worth trying in your area.
hollisterrox@reddit
Hey, just to tack on here, I went down the rabbit hole of KNF to see what's at the bottom, and it's basically astrology/chiropractic/homeopathic level of science.
Basically, one dude made up some things that don't appear to do any harm, but there's no science to back any of it up. For instance, it is stated as axiomatic that black or green molds on the rice starter are bad and should be discarded, but white molds are okay. The problem with that is the general morphology of the same fungal species can vary quite a bit.
Real science would include which genus/species are good and why, and which are bad and why. You won't find that documented anywhere.
Some of it does have science to back it up, but not conducted by KNF proponents. For example, biochar can DEFINITELY improve soils, many studies to back that up and there's a great book on this called "Terra preta " if you want to have an interesting read.
Read up on it, but pay attention to the fact that there are formulas and ratios given as the "one true way" , yet you can't find anyone running optimization studies to verify that these are indeed the optimal ratios. It's the overconfidence of psuedoscience.
Probably not harmful, but it is oversold by the people who like it.
Mission_Reply_2326@reddit
I am realizing now I have no idea what this back to Eden thing was. I just assumed we were talking about organic gardening without the use of store bought stuff (as much as possible- I will not be making my own blood meal!).
ballskindrapes@reddit
It's just christian branded organic gardening techniques. Pretty cringey imo.
Nothing about it is new or revolutionary, just rebranded.
OMGLOL1986@reddit
You need drip irrigation yesterday.
Adorable_Dust3799@reddit
Ask if anyone around has small pets. I mulch with chinchilla litter. It's small woodchips, hay, and poops. Rabbit or guinea pigs are great too. I guarantee someone is throwing that stuff in the trash. Absolutely nothing wrong with drip irrigation and i can't imagine anyone having issues with it. I wash dishes in a dish tub and hand water with that, but there's only 2 of us and my garden is small.
BaldyCarrotTop@reddit
Do a daily "Farmer's Walk" to check the condition of the garden. Pull weeds before they can get established. It's OK to leave a few young weeds for the bugs to attack (instead of your plants). But pull them before they get established. I tend to grow plants that don't attract pests. No more Kale and Chard (worms and leaf miners).
In the spring I will work nutrients into the soil. I will also bed the garden down in the fall with leaves to suppress weeds. In the spring I run over the leaves with a lawn mower and till them into the soil.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
Gardening is tough. I'm not familiar with the back to eden gardening method but theres a lot too gardening in general. For example soil quality, if your soil is too sand or like clay you are going to have a bad time with a lot of plants. If the PH is off you are going to have a tough time. If your plants get too much or too little sun you are going to have a tough time. If temperature isn't kept within an acceptable range the plants could die or bolt. Pests are always a challenge and there are certainly things you can do to make that problem better or worse but it's hard to eliminate them without pesticides. I've struggled with gardening for various reasons. Last year was the first year I thought I found real success only for a woodchuck to come in and eat everything. You really have to practice and find your rhythm so to speak.
The only real success I've had with natural gardening was with native plants that are already well adapted to grow in this region without assistance like raspberries or wild strawberries. There are also plants that are more resilient and easier to grow in your area. Like mint is basically a weed, you can't get rid of it. The previous owner of my house planted rubarb. I don't even eat rubarb and mow it down every year and it still comes back every year with a vengeance! Left unattended it will grow 6-8 feet tall with 0 effort or watering from me. You might make your life easier by trying to pick plants that are easier to grow and better adapted to your conditions.
jjinco33@reddit
We have had mint issues in the past, just couldn't get it out of a yard. Now, can't keep it alive in a pot. It refuses to grow unless it is the worst conditions for most plants to thrive.
Hot-Profession4091@reddit
It takes time. Particularly with pests. It takes time for predators to find them, so you’ll usually have a Very Bad Year™️ before the ecosystem starts to balance.
My advice is to do what works and keep a continual eye on reducing dependency on external inputs.
pumpinnstretchin@reddit
Adapt. Adapt. Adapt. The ancestors who survived learned to adapt their methods to the soil and climate wherever they were. Clay soil must be treated differently than sand, or sandy loam. There aren't wood chips everywhere because there aren't trees everywhere. Watering methods must be adapted, as well. No intelligent ancestor would follow the exact methods of someone 3000 miles away in a different climate and with different soil, but thanks to the Internet, that's what were "supposed" to do.
pumpinnstretchin@reddit
My point: Would the Passamaquoddy Tribe in northeast Maine dictate the growing methods for the Cahuilla Tribe in the California desert?
Nearby_Impact_8911@reddit
Incorporate companion planting
sassysassysarah@reddit
What was the composition of your soil? I personally like the till once and never again, followed up by back to Eden method. I have a patch where I've tested it out and like it so far. My soil was old fill dirt and pretty clay heavy, so I very roughly mixed in compost, sand, and vermiculite into the top couple inches. We had to rip out blackberries anyways so we had to dig the area anyhow. Then after I layered a to cardboard, more soil and compost, then chips. Anytime I plant something I punch a hole in the cardboard
I think the main issue with back to Eden is it doesn't account for the fact that most suburban homes are built on top of garbage dead soil so we have to adjust plans with that in mind- we aren't in a rich soil area usually unless we treat our soil as if it's it's own plant
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
It’s medium clay with a fair amount of small rocks. I think it just lacks organic material because there is no real structure.
sassysassysarah@reddit
Oh yeah I would definitely mix in some organic material and some sand for drainage. When you wet the soil, you want to be able to make a "soil snowball" out of it - loamy and it wants to stick together and not crumble when wet
Colonist25@reddit
naturla methods doesn't mean 'don't do drip irrigation / fertilizer / natural pest removal'
look into companion planting, add some netting, water things appropriately, fertitlize per plant every 2 weeks etc etc
tilling - shoudln't be required if you build up your soil correctly
read: add fucktons of compost on top of a few layers of cardboard, plant in the compost.
Vandilbg@reddit
When you compost set the compost and soil you bring in off to the side for a year. Many many diseases will survive a year in soil and if you compost too.
ellojustine@reddit
Not trying to sound dismissive or curt but: it takes three years. Three years is when it starts to click. You seem really knowledgeable already so it might just be take more seasons under your belt. Start reading Eliot Coleman if you haven't already. As far as pest control, try to think in a "plant positive" rather than a "pest negative" mindset. I started out with hard pack clay and while I STILL have hard pack clay, it's rich with life and I have been able to build a really beautiful "natural" garden. Mulch mulch mulch. Not everything works for me in my particular little micro climate with my particular soil (carrots? Not happening), but plenty of things do. Remember that you are a soil farmer first and foremost and the healthy plants are a bonus.
"Don't put a 5 dollar plant in a 1 dollar hole. Put a 1 dollar plant in a 5 dollar hole."
Godspeed my friend! Few things more humbling than trying to grow food.
daringnovelist@reddit
Agree on all, except one: all the knowledge in the world won’t jumpstart this process. It takes 3-5 years anyway.
ellojustine@reddit
Also, sorry one more thing: that whole no till stuff works fine if you already have great soil AND /OR you live in the pacfic northwest like Back to Eden. I've been to that farm in WA and yah, sure, wood chips solve everything in that climate. Not the case for me in 10B. There's tilling and then there's TILLING. Most "no till" is referring to not taking a tractor to flip the soil to 18". Hand tilling with a broad fork or even a small rototiller is absolutely necessary the first couple years in most cases, imho.
Mission_Reply_2326@reddit
I weed my garden every spring with a pitchfork- which I use to both get all the roots and aerate the soil at the same time. Then I add compost/chicken manure (composted)/worm castings. This is just the prep. When the garden is growing, each plant has its own unique needs. Every year I learn something new and I have been doing this for decades. Some plants need to be watered twice a day until it reaches a certain stage. Some plants need blood. Some plants want coffee grounds (after making coffee always). Some pests arent a problem (my corn aphids never hurt my corn). Some pests can be avoided by rotating crops. Some crops need to be rotated. Some plants (like hot peppers) can be overwatered. Some plants, like blueberries, need to be overwatered. It’s a long process to get to know each plant and also how that plant does in your ecosystem. During garden season, i am weeding about once a week. At the end of the season, I add compost. At this point I may use burlap bags or cardboard to try to prevent weed growth over the winter. I also have some plants that continue to produce all winter (I am in the PNW). My point is- it takes time to learn how to grow food and it’s ok that you want to try different things. It may help to take a local class, or see if there’s something like a Tilth Society near you.
daringnovelist@reddit
There is NO method that works well right off the bat. It takes years to develop a garden. This is as true of non-organic gardening.
My problem with the Back to Eden method is that they imply it’s all easy. The only method I’ve ever seen that is anywhere close to easy, especially for a beginner, is Square-Foot gardening in a raised bed, at least if you start small, and spend money up front.
What “traditional” farming offers is simplicity - no companion planting until you know what you’re doing. Take care of each crop according to its needs. I love the “jungle” beds you can create with Intensive gardening and food forest principles, but those take years to develop, and become an unmanageable mess if you don’t have experience.
But when starting out, weed-smothering techniques may help you get started, but they don’t just fix it. You still have to work for a long time (years) to create an ecosystem that is not full of invasive weeds and bugs. (And that is achieved by consistent weeding, then cover crops, then more weeding, on and on until the crops have the upper hand over the weeds.)
UP-North617@reddit
Netting was a game changer for me. I hope it works for you.
Also, I plant a ton of garlic and onions, rosemary, Basil, Dill, marigolds and lavender around and between my plants. The hope there is to attract beneficial insects and deter/confuse the bad ones.
Even with the above, I feel like I get smaller than expected harvests, so this year I bought soil testing kits and found out my garden is completely depleted of potash and phosphate. I'll be adding bone meal and researching potash amendments.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Thank you for your comment. I’m optimistic about the netting, but my wife hates the way it looks. Haha.
I thought about purchasing a soil kit, but it seemed excessively expensive, around $30 for a single test. Instead, I bought some PH strips from Amazon, but I haven’t had the chance to test them yet. I should definitely do that today.
I’ve added bone meal and fish meal to the potato rows this year. Last year, I made sure to plant some comfrey. Surprisingly, they survived and are thriving this year! I plan to make a significant amount of compost tea for the potatoes to provide them with potassium, which should contribute to larger tuber sizes.
Cheap_Cap760@reddit
That comfrey will become the bane if your existence. Itll spread EVERYWHERE and its nearly impossible to get rid of. Even a pinch off a leaf will grow a new plant
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I guess one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I look forward to it spreading. It’s such a useful plant for animal feed, mulch, compost tea. Maybe I’ll regret it in a few years, but for now I love it!
gonyere@reddit
I have not had good luck with netting. Idk, if I put it on too late, if it's not fully enclosed, or whatever.
FWIW, we till in manure, ash etc in the spring, then cover with tarps and black plastic. Lots of things (tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, etc) I plant directly through the plastic. What I don't - potatoes, corn, beans, squash, etc -i mulch heavily with straw. It serves multiple purposes. It keeps weeds down, while soaking up water, so the ground doesn't dry out as quickly. It also breaks down and becomes more dirt, eventually.
fauxrain@reddit
I suggest straight up compost over compost tea. You want to physically build your soil and build a foundation for your plants. Compost tea might provide a burst of nutrients, but it doesn’t do anything for you long-term.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Your local extension office will do a soil test for you cheaply, I think they are $10. in our state IIRC. You bring in the soil, they will bag it and send it off and you get results in mail or email in a few weeks. MUCH more info than just what you see in a lowes test set.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
If you have a wood stove(s), the ashes are great for your garden and will help with some of this.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I did this in the greenhouse over the winter, but I guess I didn't know what I was doing, because:
1) I almost set the greenhouse on fire (Let the ashes cool for a few days before applying, folks
2) I dumped the whole bucket in a bed. (Spread sparingly I've since learned).
Lots of mistakes. Hopefully others can learn from my failures.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Definitely spread them out a bit.
Psychological_Fun172@reddit
Wood ash is great for potassium, and does have some phosphorus as well as other minor nutrient minerals. You need to be careful with it, however, as it is extremely caustic and can raise the soil pH too much if you over apply it. A little bit goes a long way.
Alternatively, you can mix your wood ash in with your compost and let it sit there and neutralize for a while before putting it on your plants. You'll still get the nutrients, it just takes a little longer.
Due_Middle_2241@reddit
We get tons of it from the fireplace. How do you use it in your garden?
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Empty it right in the garden. Usually kind of shake the container around to spread it a bit. Or side dress it along existing plants.
Happy-Employ-1489@reddit
Can you recommend a soil test kit please?
fauxrain@reddit
Contact your local agricultural extension.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
This.
Going to see a helluva lot more on a proper soil test than a probe from Lowes.
Ill-Perspective-5510@reddit
While weeding is fine in some cases, I honestly recommend researching your local wild floral because often times the vast majority is perfectly edible nand extremely usefull in both nutrients and medicine. My yard was a dustbowl of acidic useless soil. I let the Dandelions go and they remediated the entire thing in a season or 2. Now it's green, lush and humid with edible wild plants year round and healthy soil. I took the "garden by neglect" approach and trust me it works.
Reasonable-Teach7155@reddit
You're not a stone age subsistence farmer. You're not in that patch all day every day which is exactly what's necessary to make that "method" work. Did you really think they just threw some stuff in untilled land and didn't maintain it?
Useful_Calendar_6274@reddit
organic gardening is dumb. stock up on fertilizer and pesticides and shit and you will outagriculture everyone in the apocalypse. that's how society restarts
lordfarquad39@reddit
Growing greener podcast/radio show has all the answers you could need. They bring experts on and offer them a platform to share their knowledge on more sustainable and effective gardening.
My best personal advice is to not fight nature. If you have a surplus of a pest, research how to cater to that pests predator. You may feel pressures from one thing or another, but they pass or you learn to work with it. Also weed suppression is your best friend. It may take even a few years, but the weeds slowly and surely lose their hold. Especially as you fill the seed bank in your soil with more desirables.
Good luck! Maybe find a friend or two who is gardening obsessed. They will share secrets and plants
Payday8881@reddit
https://www.echocommunity.org/resources/a759c5a3-6ab3-41d8-94bc-9d6400135a3e
Murphuffle@reddit
Our ancestors used neem oil? How far back are we talking?
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I think neem oil is from India or Egypt. My ancestors probably didn’t have access to it, but I’m sure some primitive gardeners experimented with various herbal extracts to keep insects away.
Peppers are probably a key ingredient. Not many things, including insects, are attracted to pepper extract. I don’t know though, I’m not an expert on that stuff.
Murphuffle@reddit
Sometimes I forget that the age of agriculture was more than just planting seeds in good soil
Myspys_35@reddit
Wait you think our "ancestors" used cardbord and "neem oil"? You cant expect modern levels of output unless you are using modern fertilizers, pesticide, irrigation and strains of produce
Prior generations usually worked their butts off to keep from starving to death. They definitively spent time dealing with weeds and watered to the best of their ability which often wasnt much. There is no magic trick
Glittering-Hat1029@reddit
I found it took 3-5 years of not great harvests, heavy pest population, etc going from conventional to no-till for things to come to a better equilibrium. The soil structure and fertility has to rebuild, the natural pest predators have to find you and move in, and a million other things need time to change. I've had to change the shape of a few of my beds so I can weed more efficiently, but several years in the weeds are very easy to pull now that my soil is wonderfully workable. Focus on building good soil and rotating your crops and give it a few years for the return on investment
The_Bad_Man_@reddit
...he left weeds to grow....
AlwayInForwardMotion@reddit
You went wrong when you forgot how many people starved back then. How common malnutrition was. How thin basically everyone was. Your authentic method had authentic problems. Hope you get the results you’re looking for!
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
That is something I didn’t think about. Maybe every generation has been fighting the ground to produce food.
I didn’t grow up with a family that gardened, so I don’t have that first hand experienced. Just researched gardening online and in books and gave it a go.
Maybe it just takes years of inputs and failures to get to a level of garden maturity where the wins outnumber the losses.
AlwayInForwardMotion@reddit
Every garden is its own ecosystem. My biggest threat is hail so I overplant like crazy and usually do okay. In a more humid climate that would be a total disaster. Hope to add a freeze drier this year so I can really make use of the crops that do well in a particular year. Instead of hoping all do okay each year, which so far has never happened. Don’t give up though! Lots of good practical tips in the other comments :)
Ubockinme@reddit
A green thumb apparently.
dawn_thesis@reddit
hey but why is "the is the method our ancestors used" motivating you to garden this way?
Liebe-Igel@reddit
My in laws live in farmland in Germany, where I have never seen such naturally perfect and fertile soil. We however live in Australia, where the soil in my area is literally just straight sand. My point is that depending on where you live the soil might need to be amended before it’s healthy enough to support productive plants. My soil has zero worms or fungi naturally and gets blasted by our Aussie sun which effectively sterilises it. I have to till clay in before I do literally anything else otherwise the sand is hydrophobic and sterile. So I till in the clay, then add manure and compost, then a green mulch. I repeat the manure, compost and add normal mulch over a while and then plant supportive plants, then vegetables. It’s the soil microbiome that allows plants to grow and resist attacks without using pesticides. You need to have a combination of plant roots, animal faeces and organic material like compost or worm castings to build up the life in the soil.
I also prefer to grow plants crowded rather than use lots of mulch, I plant my veggies higgledy-piggledy in between things like marigolds and other flowers though (wards off some pests and also increases pollinators) rather than in strict rows. It’s ok to till at the start, amend your soil as specific to your area and god I would never water by hand if I could help it!
MsARumphius@reddit
Gardening is hard work. Our ancestors had the time to devote a lot of energy to their food cultivation. I’ve been gardening my entire life and my crops are regularly decimated by bears squirrels weather etc. that’s why people formed groups where they could barter and trade. It is harder to successfully grow a ton of different crops with different needs and pests. I don’t want to shoot the bears and rabbits that wreck my garden but I can see why people used to. Look into square foot gardening and companion planting. There are some tips and tricks that can make things go better like native plants, disease or pest resistant plants, best place for the plant/happy plants resist disease more. Also plant wat more than you may think you need so if a pest takes some out you don’t lose them all. But yeah this is hard work and that’s why most humans abandoned it.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I never put wood chips in the garden. I will use cow manure from a loafing shed and till it into the soil.
As for mulching, it does help with moisture retention in the soil, but it can also give harmful insects a prime breeding ground that is concealed. The best method I have found is a nice wheat straw mulch that retains water but doesn't stay excessively moist after watering. The wheat straw helps with the weeds and retains moisture. I would rather be weeding wheat than crabgrass any day.
You can use various methods to control insects, but netting is probably your best option if you don't use a greenhouse and don't want to use chemicals.
Old timers around here tilled between rows weekly so they wouldnt have to weed as much, which I have always found the most time consuming part of having a garden.
BigRichieDangerous@reddit
Here's a thing that's important to understand: "traditional" gardening (aka organic) is subsistence farming, and it looked completely different in each location where people developed agricultural systems. Lots of these flashy organic gardening systems promoted by hippies and permaculturalists naively draw together completely contradictory methods which are inapplicable to the region at hand.
Tropical gardening methods aren't applicable to arid regions. Arid techniques aren't applicable to humid coastlines. Rocky steep soil systems aren't applicable to deep clay systems. Etc etc etc.
Instead, the best choice is to go back to the original agricultural methods of YOUR region, and then combine that with modern agronomy and botanical sciences. Agroecology is one name for this method and it's primarily been used in the global south.
What's roughly your region? Knowing that could help begin to explain what went wrong.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
I’m in Virginia. Last summer we had a ton of rainfall and the weeds and bugs were crazy. The summers before that very drought prone especially late summer.
Clay soil, some rocks. Planted pines, so more acidic.
After tilling.
BigRichieDangerous@reddit
Got it. in your region it looks like the primary nations who call the land home are the tutelo, macan, and powahatan. If you are in the western portion of virginia, I see on LANDFIRE that the fire return interval is less than a decade. I'm having a bit of a hard time reading up on the nations there, but I am seeing signs that they were maybe doing three sisters farming with slash and burn agriculture.
Again assuming you're in the western portion of the state, your system hasn't really been historically farmed with significant tillage. There was growth, then burn, then growth. You'd be seeing burns either every year or at least twice a decade. That char would be deposited into the soil slowly and the organic matter would be pushed down through extensive root systems.
If I were working your soil I would be extremely cautious of tillage. Clay can be really easily compacted if not cared for properly. I would be using extensive use of char, not woodchip.
If I adopted a tillage system, it would be an annual system wherein I heavily tilled in a mix of char from a brush pile and aged composted. I would do that repeatedly for several years basically to 'catch up' to the repeated fire that is potentially several hundred years behind where it should be. I would lean heavily on cover crops in the off season to make sure that top level of clay is never without roots opening the system up and allowing both water percolation and protection of the soil.
I wouldn't be doing significant all-season mulch because normally that's burned off in the spring. but I would be applying top-dressings of char+compost to mimic that system. and again leaning on either having crop or cover crop planted in all the soil possible. This mimics the intensive three-sisters agriculture + slash-and-burn system I suspect was in your area.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Before tilling.
David_C5@reddit
It might take many years of doing such natural gardening practices before you see a benefit.
There's a rather famous Japanese Apple tree gardener that talked about his successes. Using the pesticides and herbicides caused his wife to get sick, so he decided to find alternative methods. He is successful now, but took years and years of barely no Apples to get to the point. 5 year since first Flower and 7 years before he started getting Apples.
His soil is so rich that it is extremely soft and you can make holes easily just using your fingers. Also his trees are much more resistant to drought and storms.
One thing interesting with such farming practices including him and others is that they take an entirely different approach to weed. Some would just let them grow alongside. Others would uproot them but use the uprooted weeds as homemade fertilizer and puts it back to where they used to be.
I saw one video that says so-called "weeds"(which are really unwanted plants of any kind), are just sprouting up because it's basically trying to make up for the deficiencies in the soil. So Dandelions pop up because it thrives in an environment where it lacks a certain mineral, and through some natural processes(including photosynthesis) the plant itself becomes the source of what it lacks. The author of the video said look for what kind of weeds are growing and try to figure out what the land is trying to tell you about the soil.
Due_Middle_2241@reddit
About straw. https://youtu.be/a6EW3L8ylqM?si=HupPiNOA5zHdlLQY
Financial-Parsley482@reddit
What kind of wood chips?
What stage of digestion were they?
Paul Gautschi is the master of this technique.
I’ve been to his land three different times. It’s outside of Port Townsend Washington.
He’s very available to chat with on the telephone. I’ve called him a few times. He’s a disabled Vietnam veterans so it’s hard to say at what stage he is right now in his health. His wife is a local midwife.
I picked pieces of celery that when I was bringing it up to my mouth, it was dripping with water. CELERY!!! He’s heavy mulching technique has to do with lowering the evaporative effect, but he also has his chips in the chicken yard so they are partially digested with chicken manure.
We live in a very wet climate here in the Pacific Northwest and yet we experience heavy drought as well.
his method allows the water to stay trapped underneath the heavy fertilized mulch.
I will NEVER gas power till again. Only BROADFORK!
Think about what it’s doing to the micro biome.
Think about all the creatures that are there that are settling in place over time
gardening like this is a process of layers and layers and layers of creating new soil overtime.
It increases the ability for the Earth to hold the water.
What you’re doing is making yourself dependent on fossil fuels, machinery, and supply chains. His method is full proof.
It’s absolutely fabulous.
Like I said I’ve visited three different times. You have to get more in depth than just watching the movie.
Also, if you match it with Ruth Stouts mulching METHOD with Hay you are severely increasing the amount of biomass that’s being locked in the ground, and then the chips that are inoculated with chicken manure is locking in that biomass, keeping the ground cool and damp.
Undigested raw wood chips are only for pathways never for the beds!
mothandravenstudio@reddit
Wood chips take away nitrogen for several years. You’ll have to put in other inputs like manure or ferts.
Water.
Tilling is absolutely necessary in some soils. You aren’t going to be able to properly adjust the local soil without tilling it to start. Especially in situations like caliche, clay, etc…
Glittering-Sky1601@reddit
Deep mulch will keep the moisture in the soil for longer. Even lawn clippings can be used as mulch.
Due_Middle_2241@reddit
I think you s ssd Houle get off the ground and build raised garden beds. You can control the soil and because you place it there ylu are not starting with a bed full of pests. I like round ones. I believe the wind goes around the beds so less weed seeds blowing in.
Also I don’t use wood chips as mulch. It brings in pests and destroys nitrogen in the soil and you get those wood bugs. I like to use straw (not hay) After the season whether in the ground or not I cover up everything with a tarp all winter to kill weeds. And I may use cardboard trimmed to the size of the raised beds all winter instead.
Irrigation drip is awesome cause it doesn’t give the weeds as much water. But if you really want to go all out. Get pro weed barrier. DONT GET THE CHEAP STUFF. It’s garbage. Ask for the very best. Better yet go to a farm store. You can put it down on the soil and cut small round holes in it. You can use a small lighter blow torch. And grow out of the holes. You can leave the material tacked down and just exposing the holes for growth. (But it sounds like your soil is suspect)
SunLillyFairy@reddit
We struggle every year, some success, some failures. We hid t have a lot of room or sun, but we do have a lot of creatures, and it seems to be a different battle every year. One year ants were marching off with anything that sprouted... ants.
I can only tell you what works for us.
I decided to focus on mostly easy, quick growing and what dies well in my area and with partial shade... to at least get some success. Radishes and greens come up quickly and taste better when you pull them in the baby form anyway. We keep trying tomatoes from seed and can't quite get it.. and I think we just lost them in a late frost.. sigh... but when we buy small plants it works, so we're about to do that again. Tomatoes not going to fruit if healthy otherwise healthy is usually about not having the right fertilizer. Then there's things like... I think our parsley and blackberries would take very if we let them. They literally grow like weeds. Hell... dandelions are actually edible and healthy...
But anyway... gardening is MUCH more complicated than I realized, at least for our area and growing space. But it's a prepper golden skill, so I've been doing it for a few years and each failure is a learning experience. Even though lettuce and radishes are not very calorie dense... I found that success is very rewarding! Last year I wanted pumpkins because I think they are a great prep food (and fun) , so I focused on some container planted pumpkins... what kind of soil do they need, how much water, what kind of food and when, how to avoid pests... I really focused on one food. I didn't get a crazy ton of them... but my 2 containers with 4 vines did produce about 7 small pumpkins by fall. I was just thrilled I got something! My friend "got so many she didn't know what to do with them" ... sigh... story of my garden life... but she also has more space and sun.
Another thought... I'm really enjoying my hydroponics inside.., they are way easier to mai rain and manage. I started with a $30 small grow kit several years ago and it's still going strong, and I added a couple more.
Even though I'm mostly growing low-cal food, I feel like if it ever got to the point where we had to kind of live off what we were growing I'd probably be eating a lot of of my stored grains, sprouting wheat, and I would use my garden to add some nutrition and vitamins. That kind of has to be my plan because our garden is not a strong one.
hollisterrox@reddit
Well, let's just start with the basics.
is your garden in an area that gets at least 6 hours of direct sunlight per day?
Is your garden somewhat protected from wind?
Is your soil NOT 100% clay or sand?
Is your garden somewhat level so you don't have massive runoff?
Is your garden able to drain water and dry out between rains/watering?
If those are all good, then you've got a workable garden spot. Please don't till wood chips into your garden soil, they'll take a decade to break down.
Next, what, specifically, are you trying to grow? Not every plant does well in every location, and it's a lot better/less frustrating if you just go with what grows. For instance, I don't particularly care for cilantro/coriander, but other people in my house like it and it grows with zero effort in my garden. So, I always have some growing here and there, and the specimens I allow to bolt do a great job attracting pollinators.
I don't seem to have any real pests for sweet potatoes here either, just the occasional snail strafing on a leaf, so I grow sweet potatoes. Again, no real effort on my part, just keep the vines where they won't get trampled upon.
And for some veggies, you may find that specific varieties matter. Tiny Tim tomatoes do great for me, every time I try California Big Boy it grows for crap. Like, I may not get a single fruit. So, we just use little tomatoes for everything, and it's fine.
If you have a squash beetle issue, and really want squash, grow something like Korean zucchini, it is naturally resistant to vine borers and , I believe, beetles.
Last thing, weeding.
1st, mulch is supposed to prevent a lot of weeds growing, and it works. If you are getting overrun by weeds, your mulch isn't thick enough. I grew up with a grandpa that would unroll whole round bales across the garden every year, so the mulch started every season an extra 5-8 inches thick. We would direct sow some things by digging down to the dirt and planting a seed, but we also transplanted a lot of seedlings, which mean we could cuddle the seedling with mulch as soon as we put it in.
Either way, we only had to carefully weed around the plants a few times before they were big enough and strong enough we could smush the mulch back around the plant stem , and then weeding was basically done for the season.
2nd, get a tool, weeding by hand suuuuucks. A standing weed puller called 'Grandpa's weeder' is commonly available, it's a pry and plier tool on a pole so you can weed while standing. Fantastic. If you have any unmulched areas, a 'stirrup' or 'scuffle' hoe is great for knocking the tops off weeds in a large area, a bit more aerobic than the weed puller but you can decimate several square meters per minute.
Last thing: the people who sell pesticides will make great promises about how easy gardening is with their stuff, but it doesn't generally change the basics. You still are just managing plant biology. There's no magic spray you can fog the garden with that will instantly make everything better.
nvaus@reddit
Traditional techniques going back at least 3,000yrs are to use a team of oxen to plow a field, not to mulch with machine ground wood chips. Not that one is better than the other. Wood chips are a poorer mulch than mowed leaves. Chips decompose quickly and steal water away from your plants as they do so. You would have more success if you had a hose.
Beyond that, you might be growing stuff that's just not easy to grow in your climate. Plant more varieties of things to see what works and don't frett over what doesn't. I recommend the youtube channel David the Good.
hoardac@reddit
If you had late blight make sure you get all the taters out of the ground. Water tomatoes religiously even if you do not want to. Most times squash bugs need a spraying if your not gonna net them. Get a stirrup hoe for weeding instead of fabric. I personally would use some Daconil if I had any fungal disease on my potatoes as they can spread to tomatoes. That stuff can live in the soil for years.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the advice.
I HATE squash bugs. I feel powerless against them. I pick meticulously pick all the eggs off all the leaves and 2 days later I see 100 little nymphs and I know its over.
lazytothebones@reddit
Squash bugs are awful! I never had them until just recently. After 3 years of losing with the eden method, I am trying a black plastic barrier this year for weeds and squash bugs.
Xeverdrix@reddit
A quick glance at the comments here op, you need to get your soil to where it can retain moisture and provide nutrients. Compost tea won't do that long term. Get compost going and if you have enough property get some chickens going and mix their manure into your compost. Feed the soil to feed your plants. Healthy plants handle some pest pressure better than nutrient starved plants. Look into organic fertilizers too, they won't harm any underground networks you're trying to build.
Enelson4275@reddit
Awful lot of opinions in here from leople who font know your region. If it's not region specific then you're most likely getting bad advice.
Go find a local organic nursery and see if they have any recommendations for materials,classes, or plant varieties.
Stop growing tomatoes and potatoes. Jf you have really bad pest issues, then you need to rotate out foods that keep pest populations fed every year.
Leopold_Porkstacker@reddit
Tomatoes don’t want to set fruit when the temperature goes over 85 degrees.
Gardening is not “easy” for many reasons, it is a learning process and don’t get discouraged!
SWGardener@reddit
This! With the new normal of increasing summer heat, we have had problems with tomatoes setting as well. We keep at it. Sometimes it works and some times it doesn’t. Our new plan is to start seeds earlier or get starts earlier in hopes of setting before extreme heat. Tomatoes are a gamble. We just keep trying. When we get them they are fabulous.
Leopold_Porkstacker@reddit
I’ve had some luck with hanging cheesecloth over them, but I mainly just try to keep the plants going over the heat of the summer and hope for a fall crop.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I really needed to hear that.
GaK_Icculus@reddit
Look up Mycobloom. Native myco products
FreelanzMedWriter666@reddit
Look up companion planting. If you’re having that much of an issue with pests, I’d wager you don’t have any marigolds or nasturtiums growing in there. I’d also recommend pulling all of your cardboard up, shredding it, and throwing it in or around your compost pile to attract worms.
For the weeds, unfortunately, you’re just going to have to suck it up. Yeah, it’s extra work, but nothing beats weeds better than taking a day every month or so to focus solely on weed removal.
Skal!
fenuxjde@reddit
r/gardening
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
Yes, good call. I'll ask for some advice there as well.
fenuxjde@reddit
I used to think I was a gardener, and then I joined that sub and realized I knew nothing.
pdxgreengrrl@reddit
Sounds like you need some flowers.
Seriously, look into companion planting. It's something I have always done and keeps pest off my crop plants. Also, plant living mulch between crops, like alyssum, that keeps weeds at bay.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Lots of different thoughts on tilling. I've tried it both ways over the decades. A few months before planting if an area doesn't have a cover crop, we use old billboard vinyl ads to cover large areas of the garden- think a thick, heavy durable tarp. That kills off all the grass and weeds. Pull it off when you want to plant and either till or plant directly.
Not long after things start coming up, I'll use some hay and lightly mulch around the plants and mulch a few walkways through the area. Here is a few weeks ago in one of the areas-
The black is one of the vinyls albeit not stretched out completely. Notice the very high rye grass on the right side next to the zucchini and squash. That was some residue from a winter cover crop. I mowed it tightly a couple times during the fall and winter- raking the grass to feed the rabbits. Right after some of it was mowed, I tilled it. It came back within no time. However the area you see in the foreground with the new peppers and hay- that also had rye grass cover crop but it was covered with a vinyl for 2 months and then tilled.
Insects- if your not going to use anything to spray, you just have to plant more to cover for any losses due to them. Over the years I've tried a lot of the organic methods that are supposed to keep insects out and/or kill them, most to little effect. But I won't spray chemicals in there either. And before someone comes with the "put ducks or chickens in there they will ONLY eat the insects and..." Nope, no they don't "only" eat the insects, they will eat your plants... BTDT, sounds good in the magazines, doesn't work in real life.
It's kinda like the "plant onions and garlic near your carrots and the rabbits will avoid it" Oh really?? Well damn, too bad we are limited to one pic per post because I had a rabbit get into the greenhouse the other day and you can see in the pic the tops of some carrots gnawed away- right next to onions.
We use largely chicken and rabbit manure, we don't "compost" either of them, we put it directly on the soil. Albeit most of it has been sitting under cages or in the bottom of the chicken pen for a while. In 3 decades of growing and raising chickens, I've never had an issue putting fresh chicken manure right next to plants, NEVER had a "burn" from this and do it every damn year.
Wood chips you mentioned- I doubt that is the main source of your problems but I'd be careful with too many. They evidently use a lot of nitrogen up- so I'm told. We have pine and cedar chips mixed in with our chicken manure and get big bags of pine shavings from time to time from a friend that has a saw mill. They are usually used in the chicken pen before they make it to the garden areas. There is that whole "brown to green ratio" and it sounds like with all the wood chips and cardboard, your heavier on the brown.
When did you last get a proper soil test? Worth getting one every couple years IMO. And for the folks "planning" to grow a garden after the fact on a piece of land, they should get one now for that piece of land so they know what they are working with versus guessing later. Often lime is needed and it's worth keeping 100 lbs. or so put away for various uses, we use dolomitic lime which also has calcium IIRC. Always have good readings for calcium on soil tests and this is probably the only way we add it via the lime.
One thing I did last year was that I had to rebuild a rabbit cage damaged during Helene anyway so I made it mobile. This is where we move young rabbits after they are weaned but are too small IMO to butcher yet. Roughly at the 8 week point. Yeah you can butcher them this small but there really isn't much on them. Even another 4 weeks and they have a lot more meat on the bones. So this community type cage I rebuilt and put some old wheelbarrow wheels on one end of it. Now we move it around the garden areas and the rabbits inside drop manure right where we want it.
We "compost" by directly burying things in the garden area. Every day or two I'll take out the used coffee grounds and filter, vegetable scraps that we don't give to the rabbits or chickens, any used herbs we have had in teas or after straining tinctures, etc. and bury it in a currently unused section of the garden- like the walking rows. The separate compost pile thing never worked for us- chickens would get in it, we never "turned" it, it usually smelled, etc. Direct burying has worked for a long while now and we see more earthworms.
MacaroonUpstairs7232@reddit
Companion planting to keep pests away. There is nothing that says you cant prep a garden for future shtf scenarios by building your soil amd garden area now when times are decent. Just because we may not have access to chemical fertilizers and pesticides doesnt mean we cant figure out natural ones. I live by the ocean, seaweed, lobster and clam shells, we have chickens, we save the egg shells, I grow comfrey, red and white clover, I companion plant with nasturtium, calendula, lavender, herbs. A working garden system grows food and medicine for both you and your plants. That is an incomplete list of all the plants I grow. My recommendation is to start small. Grow up to three things well. Most people start with corn, beans and squash to learn about companion planting and plants that help to feed each other.
Radiant_Device_6706@reddit
I grow organic. Ive been doing it for years. Honestly, I don't worry about weeds. If they get in my way, if Im working in one of the beds, I might pull them and lay them on the ground. I live just outside the desert. I did a lot of experiments when I started. I try now to just grow things that are easy to store and a few things I can freeze. There are very few things ( like cucumbers) I grow for fresh eating.
I stick to potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, onions, winter squash and tomatoes. I can or freeze them.
There are a lot of plants that have a lot of predation. Like large winter squash. Squash bugs can decimate an entire garden and they just dont eat squash. Now I pick squash that is more resistant to bugs.
I only use nets for things like cabbage. In bad years I spray BT.
I noticed one year that bugs dont bother my mint, so I spray my soil with mint as well as neem oil, but I dont want to discourage good bugs so spraying is only occasional.
There are some years that I grow just about anything and other years my plants get decimated. When a certain type of bug shows up, like bean weevils (They ruined all my beans one year). The next year I wont plant beans, so the larvae will die off. When I try a new plant, I really watch to see what it attracts.
Mostly, I just stick with storage crops.
Utter_cockwomble@reddit
That kind of gardening is a full-time job. You have to be out there every day, pulling weeds, picking bugs, and monitoring. If you don't have the time to do that- and not many do- then a less hands-on method works too.
The important thing is to build your skill set and knowledge.
rbprepin@reddit (OP)
100%. One of the biggest lessons I've learned from all of this is just how difficult and time intensive this style of gardening is. Now maybe an established garden with good soil and the right insect balance could make it easier, but a new garden with poor soil is a huge undertaking. Failure rate is high.
I guess that's why I went to r/preppers first instead of r/gardening. There may be some urban or sub-urban preppers who think gardening is as easy as throwing some seeds in the ground and watering a bit. That's not the case at all.
Cheap_Cap760@reddit
Been doing back to eden style for over a decade. We currently have around 7k sqft of gardens that its been used in. It's an amazing technique, but it doesn't work miracles on its own. You still need adequate water, generally 1inch per 7 days. You still need to weed diligently, as in checking it daily. You still need to deal with bugs , another daily check. BT (bacillus thuringiensis) is an organic bacteria that kills bugs (be careful not to spray blossoms or you'll kill pollinators) and works great if applied regularly. So does spinosad , another natural bacteria does the same and is applied similarly and as frequently. If you have blight, which it sounds like your potatoes had, use a diluted mix of copper sulfate. Pull dead plants immediately, wash hands before handling healthy plants. Flip leaves to look for bug eggs and larvae.
Tilling is absolutely horrible for an established garden. It's exposes all of the beneficial bacteria and microbes to air killing them. It also creates a "hard pan" beneath the tilled area because the blades "cut" the soil. This creates a smooth hard barrier that slows water drainage.
Gardens require an serious amount of time, commitment and dedication especially if you don't want to pump your food full of synthetic inputs.
Weed barriers break down into more micro plastics, right into your food supply.
We've done organic for 28yrs. Some years have been less than great, but more often than not we have enough excess (after eating, canning, freezing and freeze drying) to give and sell bushels of produce and fruit.