The Doolittle Raiders
Posted by BlacksheepF4U@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 30 comments
Imagine launching on a mission that you knew you could not return from...
Today, we stand on the shoulders of giants!
At 07:38 on the morning of 18 April, while the task force was still about 650 nautical miles from Japan, it was sighted by the Japanese picket boat No. 23 Nittō Maru, a 70-ton patrol craft, which radioed an attack warning to Japan. The boat was sunk by gunfire from USS Nashville.
Doolittle and Hornet skipper Captain Marc Mitscher were forced to launch the B-25s immediately, 10 hours early and 170 nautical miles farther from Japan than planned.
Source: https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/doolittle-raiders
ClawhammerAndSickle@reddit
Thank you China!
randomwrencher@reddit
The atrocities committed against the Chinese locals after Dolittles raid are often forgotten along with the aid provided to our airmen after the raids.
Lirael_Gold@reddit
Also the bit where the Dolittle Raid missed their targets and was basically a publicity stunt.
randomwrencher@reddit
I'd agree. But it did add some amazing stories the aviation world. One of the best 'what can we get to fly off a carrier' stories for sure.
OpenImagination9@reddit
I still wonder how they were able to get those bombers in the air while carrying not only ordnance but also the massive weight of the crew’s balls …
PizzaWall@reddit
The important thing to remember is that Doolittle thought his raid was a failure. The damage done was minimal and not worth the loss of airplanes. He fully expected to be court martialed, lose a rank, and an otherwise successful career would end in disgrace.
He never considered the psychological effect the raid would have. The raid boosted morale in the US because they finally landed a punch. The raid was demoralizing to Japan because it showed that the US was capable of staging an attack and they were now vulnerable. It is now considered a masterstroke of genius because it send a shivver up and down Japan. The US was not going to capitulate and sign a peace treaty. The US proved it could mount an attack, no part of Japan was safe, and Japan had no way of knowing how many bombers the US could deploy. Would this be a one-time thing? A weekly thing? Nobody knew.
After the raid, he didn't know he was promoted two ranks. He didn't know the President would be submitting his name for the Medal of Honor. He just knew that the raid was exposed early, it did little damage, all of the planes were lost and the men he was responsible for were missing. By launching early, Japan assumed the raid came from a battle group closer to the shores of Japan, and when they launched a retaliatory attack, they were looking in the wrong place, saving two aircraft carriers, four cruisers and eight destroyers from attack.
This also convinced Japan to stage a raid on Midway earlier than planned, which helped lead to the first major victory for the US, depending how you feel about the Battle of the Coral Sea.
somecheesecake@reddit
Great analysis, thank you!
GruggleTheGreat@reddit
How do I report this post for being political?
See how silly that sounds?
Far_Breakfast_5808@reddit
Aviation history is politics now?
GruggleTheGreat@reddit
According to the mods, we can talk about planes but not why they are doing what they are doing, in regards to Iran.
dang3rmoos3sux@reddit
Sounds like you just really want to talk about the politics of Iran. Go to the politics sub. We will enjoy the cool planes here and not dive too deep into the politics of why the cool planes are being used.
so_jelly@reddit
tbf, they have a point. "Ooh cool airplane" feelings should always be tempered with acknowledgement of that airplane's usage and place in history. Avoiding diving into "why the cool planes are being used" is willful ignorance.
dang3rmoos3sux@reddit
I get their point. I just don't think they are bringing it up in good faith. They just want an excuse to virtue signal and shame us for liking war planes.
GruggleTheGreat@reddit
I find the utilitarian part of fire arms and engineering of war machines fascinating. The engineering alone that went into the Doolittle raid, when it only really served as a rallying call for the United States that they could reach out and touch their aggressor, is honestly kind of amazing. American engineering and design and process implementation fascinates me and I love learning about it.
But these days it’s hard to separate propaganda of old (this raid) with propaganda of today. It’s hard to not think that the engineering of it all, today especially, could be in service of something much more sinister. That maybe we just tell the stories claiming we are the good guys, but maybe we aren’t anymore, or maybe we never were.
I’m concerned the plight of people will be ignored and buried under cool plane facts and that’s really aching my morality lately.
Maybe I just need to take a break until my apathy comes back.
I apologize if I upset you.
dang3rmoos3sux@reddit
Its really not hard at all to separate it.
BlacksheepF4U@reddit (OP)
How is this political?
GruggleTheGreat@reddit
We can post pics and vids of planes in old wars and current wars, but discussing why those planes are there and the purpose of their mission is inherently political. Plenty of coverage of the Iran war has been censored and removed due to “politics” so I’m taking the piss and asking why don’t we say the same about this clearly political act in the picture.
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
Your post has been removed for breaking the r/aviation rules.
The moderators found that this post is not related to aviation, or is a better fit for another subreddit. Please consider posting in one of the following instead:
The following subreddits should be used for related aviation subtopics:
-r/flightradar24 or r/adsb for adsb-related posts -r/combatfootage for combat and war content -r/flightsim for gaming -r/whatplaneisthis for aircraft ID - r/fearofflying for flight safety questions - r/travel or related subreddits for travel-specific content (airports, destinations, airline policies, etc.)
flying_wrenches@reddit
We remove combat footage.
Shoot downs, bombing runs. Plane crashes from combat. Stuff like that..
Look at r/combatfootage for examples.
This is historical footage that is completely different. Yet again, some stuff would Still be removed.
Raguleader@reddit
Oh, I understand. You are getting Iran and Japan mixed up because they sound similar.
randomwrencher@reddit
Life's tough when you're 12. Nice of you to take pitty!
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
Your post has been removed for breaking the r/aviation rules.
The moderators found that this post is not related to aviation, or is a better fit for another subreddit. Please consider posting in one of the following instead:
The following subreddits should be used for related aviation subtopics:
-r/flightradar24 or r/adsb for adsb-related posts -r/combatfootage for combat and war content -r/flightsim for gaming -r/whatplaneisthis for aircraft ID - r/fearofflying for flight safety questions - r/travel or related subreddits for travel-specific content (airports, destinations, airline policies, etc.)
Terrible_Log3966@reddit
In 1995 some other Mitchells and Warbirds took off from the uss carl vinson.
I have shared this before. But just in case
https://youtu.be/TQIqmk6FsdI?is=2bbcyRRFdMKyKVXN
jay_in_the_pnw@reddit
very cool but how did these aircraft get onto the Carl Vinson? Did they land on it with or without arresting gear, or a seashore crane?
Terrible_Log3966@reddit
As far as I know they were hoisted onto the carrier
jay_in_the_pnw@reddit
makes sense, thanks
Gearheaddrew@reddit
AWESOME
Terrible_Log3966@reddit
It's one of my fav aviation niche subjects
Conscious_Award1444@reddit
Odd that that the crewed the planes as if the would need defense. Too much weight, all they needed was to fly it to Tokyo, drop the bombs, and land in China.
DCS_Sport@reddit
Happy Doolittle day!