Courtney was a bitter, drug addled, “artist” that may or may not have had something to do with her husband’s death. Suffice to say that without Kurt, imo, she’d have been long forgotten about by now.
Okay, but let's be fair, so was Kurt. And he killed himself AFTER their daughter was born, effectively abandoning her.
Courtney may not be an angel, but that "documentary" hit piece by a Cobain stan is inconclusive, uses circumstantial evidence at best, and has tarnished her reputation far more than she deserves.
Kurt only achieved Gen X/Xennial sainthood because he died.
I don’t think anyone here thinks of Kurt as a saint. Their relationship was mutually toxic. The difference is that one was a major label draw, and the other was mad they didn’t get the same recognition. This opinion was formed, by most, way earlier than any documentary. We all watched mtv news.
He was very aware of the road he was being forced into with his growing celebrity/icon status and he didn't like it. Add in his family history of ADHD and bipolar disorder with the massive stress that a newborn within a hot-cold relationship and his chronic physical and mental pain and you have a recipe for disaster.
If you've never lived or grown up around someone with bi polar who isn't medicated, it isn't a great time. They are wildly unpredictable.
If you believe the note was written by him(I do), he pretty says he believes they would be better off without him. I wonder if Love didn't try to drive him to suicide for fear of becoming irrelevant without being beside him and fear of the loss of the money/life style. Of course part of their problems was their drug use, and disagreements on his ever increasing fame.
And he killed himself AFTER their daughter was born, effectively abandoning her, making him a (pardon the expression) dead beat father.
And in his deep depression he believed she was better off with that than with him. If you've never had a major depressive disorder, then you can't really understand how it changes your way of thinking.
"Frances and Courtney, Ill be at your altar. Please keep going Courtney, for Frances. For her life, which will be so much happier without me.
I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU!" - Kurt Cobain
The reason he still is prominent to me is how much he loathed the establishment as much as they used him. This is a feeling I've been able to relate to working mostly corporate jobs because they pay the best/best benefits.
I swear she was forgotten until she somehow got onto the algorithms in the last month or so. Did she just pay some PR team to make her blow up on the internet or something? She can disappear back to the 90s where she belongs.
Thanks for the awesome list of songs to listen to. I don’t really have anything against Courtney Love but something about the way these two talk makes me hate what they like and love what they don’t.
Actively did drugs while raising Francis Bean Cobain to where she was taken away from her and placed in the custody of Francis's grandparents and Aunts, accused Grohl of grooming Bean, and supported Marylin Manson after it came to light that he may have sexually assaulted an assistant; Among a whole host of other shitty stuff that's she been involved in. To this day her daughter has little to no contact with her.
Yes she raised alarms on how disgusting Weinstien is, but she is no saint and I don't know why suddenly her character is being resurrected when there's so much known crap shes done in her life.
Before Cobain's birth, rumors suggested that her mother used heroin during the pregnancy. This scandal intensified when Vanity Fair published Lynn Hirschberg's article "Strange Love", which alleged that Love admitted to using heroin even after learning of her pregnancy.^([12]) Love and Kurt Cobain maintained that Vanity Fair took her words out of context.^([13]) Eventually, child welfare services launched an investigation into their parenting abilities.^([4]) The investigation was ultimately dismissed, but not without a significant amount of legal wrangling and Cobain being removed from her parents' custody for a short time, beginning when she was just two weeks old.^([4])
On April 1, 1994, when she was 20 months old, Cobain visited her father at the Exodus Recovery Center, a rehab center in Marina del Rey, California, where they played together. This was the last time she saw her father alive;^([14]) a week later, he was found dead at his home in Seattle.^([15])^([16]) Cobain was subsequently raised by her mother, aunts, and paternal grandmother.^([17]) She spent her early years in Seattle and Los Angeles, and was placed in her grandmother's care for a time after her mother's drug-related arrest in October 2003. Love regained custody of Cobain in 2005.^([18]) Cobain is a childhood neighbor and close friend of Billie Lourd, daughter of Carrie Fisher and Bryan Lourd.^([19])^([20])^([21])
Well, the Wikipedia article cites the infamous Vanity Fair piece and Behind the Music, “the most non-sensationalist documentary series”. So there you go.
Still, the article acknowledges that the investigation was ultimately dismissed.
Zoomers like the one in the vid are discovering her and declaring her a feminist icon because they have low IQs. The fact that Love probably got her husband killed is only a bonus to these types of little women.
I was just thinking the same thing....wtf am I hearing about Courtney Love all the time. Haven't heard about her in years, and everyone seems to love her?
My husband told me he just listened to a podcast with Courtney and Billy Corgan. Apparently they were trashing Kim Gordon. I think they are all talented musicians, but I’m inclined to take what Love and Corgan say with a grain of salt. It does seem like they all like to stir the pot- Gordon’s memoir goes into a little bit of detail about her side of the story.
That is vividly my first memory of her, the second being her in the people vs Larry Flint but specifically the trailer. I watched the movie but I think every scene she was in was in the trailer.
Pretty much. I heard Billy Corgan on Stern talk about how he helped Courtney write at least half of the music on Hole’s popular album… and Cobain had been gone for a couple years when that album was released so I doubt he helped at all… are these people even old enough to be alive in 1994?
Corgi has musical credit not lyrical credit. I swear I heard an interview where she claims he wished he wrote the lyrics to Malibu. They're both big egos.
Especially the Pumpkins ones. Billy Corgan's lyrics are so vague you could pull a name of a random Mellon Collie song out of a hat and claim it was about her, but Tonight, Tonight was explicitly about his childhood. Like, have these people actually listened to any of these songs?
I think there was probably a lot of feuding along with whatever other emotions come from being close to a person like Courtney. She did say on live TV before she sang Violet “this song is about a jerk. I hexed him and now he’s losing his hair” which was a dig to Billy.
Courtney Love herself has made these claims numerous times, even after being informed that the timelines didn't match up (songs written before she and the songwriter ever met).
People just repeat them, but Courtney Love is not a reliable source.
I do believe there's a huge double standard where if CL was a man, most of her antics would be shrugged away like "haha wow she's so punk, she dgaf".
However: there's just too many people with bad things to say about her, up to and including getting restraining orders. Butch Vig, Nirvana producer and extremely chill person with very little to gain from badmouthing the partner of a big client, says she was awful. Honestly I think she was not a great thing to happen to Kurt.
Whenever I read about Courtney Love I immediately think about the hot mess live "interview" with Madonna during one of the MTV award shows. Made a complete ass out of herself, but I knew plenty of girls at the time who thought she was the ultimate cool girl because she was an edgy counterpoint to Madonna.
It's kinda funny that Madonna was seen as "edgy" in the 80s and early 90s, but then by the late 90s she was seen as this radio-friendly generic pop-star.
I think most celebrities themselves aren't worth our attention, but what they make can be dope. Courtney's Hole album was actually pretty good. But you definitely could hear Cobain in there either wrote some of the songs, they were stolen, or he helped her. Either way the album is good for that reason. At least it was in its time, I haven't listened to it in many years.
Corgan did, evidenced by his songwriting credits all over the album.
It's weird that people think Cobain helped Love far more than he did. He has a single songwriting credit on Live Through This, "Old Age". That's the sum total of his contributions to Hole. One song.
Of course music taste is subjective. I don't really think commercial success means it's any better. That album didn't sound anything like Nirvana. I was just saying I thought the album that sounded like nirvana was their best and it was at nirvana's peak and also of their relationship. You can just hear it and while I think their story is really sad, the album is good.
Because those songs weren’t allegedly played on the radio at the specific moment they’re talking about, but a radio station allegedly played three songs by the same artist in a 6 song rotation, Could have been a triple play moment and they decided to play three songs by smashing pumpkins that were about Courtney Love because that station hates her, or something
I remember seeing Hole on tour with Manson. Went to show liking Hole and being not sure about Marilyn, left loving Manson’s set, and hating Hole, with Courtney talking shit between every song.
If you mean “that girl that clearly murdered her husband”, then I agree. She was a drug-addled mediocrity otherwise. This podcaster needs better role models. And a better voice, that vocal fry makes me want to tear out my own eardrums.
I was a humongous SP fan (until I met Billy in 2016) and never knew those songs were about her. When I say humongous, I mean, tons of bootlegged concert tapes and cds, tattoos, my first license plate was a song title of theirs, humongggggous fan. I’m kind of annoyed that I didn’t know this.
CorporateCoolZone@reddit
This is complete nonsense
babaganoosh30@reddit
What a surprise she doesn't mention Star Fuckers lncorporated
Kade7596@reddit
The only song that is actually about her, though indirectly.
impliedapathy@reddit
Courtney was a bitter, drug addled, “artist” that may or may not have had something to do with her husband’s death. Suffice to say that without Kurt, imo, she’d have been long forgotten about by now.
Kade7596@reddit
She would have found -- and did find -- literally anyone who would have her to attach herself to.
2099AD@reddit
Okay, but let's be fair, so was Kurt. And he killed himself AFTER their daughter was born, effectively abandoning her.
Courtney may not be an angel, but that "documentary" hit piece by a Cobain stan is inconclusive, uses circumstantial evidence at best, and has tarnished her reputation far more than she deserves.
Kurt only achieved Gen X/Xennial sainthood because he died.
impliedapathy@reddit
I don’t think anyone here thinks of Kurt as a saint. Their relationship was mutually toxic. The difference is that one was a major label draw, and the other was mad they didn’t get the same recognition. This opinion was formed, by most, way earlier than any documentary. We all watched mtv news.
Kade7596@reddit
Love struck me as an opportunist even as a teenager, and everything since has only reinforced that.
Ws6fiend@reddit
Kurt was no saint.
He was very aware of the road he was being forced into with his growing celebrity/icon status and he didn't like it. Add in his family history of ADHD and bipolar disorder with the massive stress that a newborn within a hot-cold relationship and his chronic physical and mental pain and you have a recipe for disaster.
If you've never lived or grown up around someone with bi polar who isn't medicated, it isn't a great time. They are wildly unpredictable.
If you believe the note was written by him(I do), he pretty says he believes they would be better off without him. I wonder if Love didn't try to drive him to suicide for fear of becoming irrelevant without being beside him and fear of the loss of the money/life style. Of course part of their problems was their drug use, and disagreements on his ever increasing fame.
And in his deep depression he believed she was better off with that than with him. If you've never had a major depressive disorder, then you can't really understand how it changes your way of thinking.
"Frances and Courtney, Ill be at your altar. Please keep going Courtney, for Frances. For her life, which will be so much happier without me.
I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU!" - Kurt Cobain
The reason he still is prominent to me is how much he loathed the establishment as much as they used him. This is a feeling I've been able to relate to working mostly corporate jobs because they pay the best/best benefits.
0dayssince@reddit
All the hate directed at Courtney when her husband killed himself is ridiculous. (Hate directed at her for other reasons is logical)
Good_Air_7192@reddit
I swear she was forgotten until she somehow got onto the algorithms in the last month or so. Did she just pay some PR team to make her blow up on the internet or something? She can disappear back to the 90s where she belongs.
impliedapathy@reddit
Agreed
Kade7596@reddit
Courtney Love had, and still has, a singular focus and purpose.
chunkybudz@reddit
Gotta make a note to never ever listen to those two people again.
BigPoppaStrahd@reddit
Thanks for the awesome list of songs to listen to. I don’t really have anything against Courtney Love but something about the way these two talk makes me hate what they like and love what they don’t.
chunkybudz@reddit
This is the way.
Coakis@reddit
Actively did drugs while raising Francis Bean Cobain to where she was taken away from her and placed in the custody of Francis's grandparents and Aunts, accused Grohl of grooming Bean, and supported Marylin Manson after it came to light that he may have sexually assaulted an assistant; Among a whole host of other shitty stuff that's she been involved in. To this day her daughter has little to no contact with her.
Yes she raised alarms on how disgusting Weinstien is, but she is no saint and I don't know why suddenly her character is being resurrected when there's so much known crap shes done in her life.
vikmaychib@reddit
It seems you read a lot of gossip magazines.
Coakis@reddit
Is Wikipeida is a gossip magazine? Who knew?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Bean_Cobain
vikmaychib@reddit
Well, the Wikipedia article cites the infamous Vanity Fair piece and Behind the Music, “the most non-sensationalist documentary series”. So there you go.
Still, the article acknowledges that the investigation was ultimately dismissed.
brokenman82@reddit
I’ve seen more Courtney Love adoration on Reddit in the past week than I have in the previous 43 years of my life. wtf is going on?
Cthulhus-Tailor@reddit
Zoomers like the one in the vid are discovering her and declaring her a feminist icon because they have low IQs. The fact that Love probably got her husband killed is only a bonus to these types of little women.
vikmaychib@reddit
Putting the Courtney Love part, the debut album is well received by several feminists.
bakedveldtland@reddit
This is such a nasty point of view.
Ultimate-Flexionator@reddit
she plausibly paid to have kurt murdered. multiple testimonies to that end.
Good_Air_7192@reddit
I was just thinking the same thing....wtf am I hearing about Courtney Love all the time. Haven't heard about her in years, and everyone seems to love her?
HakuyutheHermit@reddit
It’s a PR campaign
SaltyGrapeWax@reddit
…but why
bakedveldtland@reddit
My husband told me he just listened to a podcast with Courtney and Billy Corgan. Apparently they were trashing Kim Gordon. I think they are all talented musicians, but I’m inclined to take what Love and Corgan say with a grain of salt. It does seem like they all like to stir the pot- Gordon’s memoir goes into a little bit of detail about her side of the story.
fuck_all_you_too@reddit
and coincidentally not a single post about when she got shithoused and crashed new years
Dayne225@reddit
That is vividly my first memory of her, the second being her in the people vs Larry Flint but specifically the trailer. I watched the movie but I think every scene she was in was in the trailer.
Numb1990@reddit
To be fair, she is surprisingly a good actress
ArcadesRed@reddit
Algorithms and bots. Welcome to the future!
mikemikemike9711@reddit
Fuck Fuck Fuck FUck FUCk FUCK FUCK FUCKFUCKFUCK!!! FUCK
Deep-Ad4351@reddit
I have 3 friends who have been sexually accosted by Courtney Love
Skerrydude@reddit
'82 babies so it best!
donttrustthecorn@reddit
We just making shit up over here
limelight022@reddit
"Because, iconic"
Goose80@reddit
Pretty much. I heard Billy Corgan on Stern talk about how he helped Courtney write at least half of the music on Hole’s popular album… and Cobain had been gone for a couple years when that album was released so I doubt he helped at all… are these people even old enough to be alive in 1994?
Texas_Kimchi@reddit
Corgan did help write most of "Celebrity Skin" this was known back then.
Goose80@reddit
Am I mixing up Live Through That and Celebrity Skin?
Forgive me, I’m getting too old to remember everything I’ve experienced. lol
0dayssince@reddit
Live through This, actually
Futant55@reddit
He was speaking in past tense /s
Klinky1984@reddit
Keep in mind Billy Corgi does love to toot his own horn. Man is very talented though, and it's clear he knows that.
0dayssince@reddit
Love never denied he helped with the album and I believe he has writing credits on Malibu, and possibly others.
Klinky1984@reddit
Corgi has musical credit not lyrical credit. I swear I heard an interview where she claims he wished he wrote the lyrics to Malibu. They're both big egos.
NoLobster7957@reddit
This feels like Courtney trying to make stuff about Courtney
writersontop@reddit
Right? Gavin Rossdale was dating Gwen Stefani before Swallowed came out. Also, the Pumpkins songs gotta be a big no too.
ManbadFerrara@reddit
Especially the Pumpkins ones. Billy Corgan's lyrics are so vague you could pull a name of a random Mellon Collie song out of a hat and claim it was about her, but Tonight, Tonight was explicitly about his childhood. Like, have these people actually listened to any of these songs?
Dayne225@reddit
Also I'm pretty sure he hated Courtney. At least according to my spotty memory
Fabulous-South-9551@reddit
Bad memory. Watch his podcast with her that just came out. They have a lot of history.
Dayne225@reddit
I'll take your word for it. I can't stand listening to him talk. I knew they had a lot of history but I thought it was mostly feuding
Fabulous-South-9551@reddit
I think there was probably a lot of feuding along with whatever other emotions come from being close to a person like Courtney. She did say on live TV before she sang Violet “this song is about a jerk. I hexed him and now he’s losing his hair” which was a dig to Billy.
Ultimate-Flexionator@reddit
I saw it. he said they were together
Fabulous-South-9551@reddit
Wait how does who you’re dating matter when your song comes out? You can only write and release songs about your current love interest?
red286@reddit
Well "we" isn't entirely fair.
Courtney Love herself has made these claims numerous times, even after being informed that the timelines didn't match up (songs written before she and the songwriter ever met).
People just repeat them, but Courtney Love is not a reliable source.
LoudStatus1316@reddit
Courtney killed Kurt. Fuck her.
NYCWriterOfAllThings@reddit
Yasi looks so hot here not that she’s also not brilliant
Sorry_Challenge_4179@reddit
A murderer
Mydemonswon@reddit
I work with a woman who used to heroin with Courtney and Kurt. She talked in depth on how Kurt actually did it.
Sorry_Challenge_4179@reddit
Sure, Jan
Mydemonswon@reddit
Of course alchie
Sorry_Challenge_4179@reddit
Alchie?
click-monster@reddit
I do believe there's a huge double standard where if CL was a man, most of her antics would be shrugged away like "haha wow she's so punk, she dgaf".
However: there's just too many people with bad things to say about her, up to and including getting restraining orders. Butch Vig, Nirvana producer and extremely chill person with very little to gain from badmouthing the partner of a big client, says she was awful. Honestly I think she was not a great thing to happen to Kurt.
Dayne225@reddit
She was definitely gasoline to his fire. I don't think Kurt ever ends well but she definitely didn't do anything to help
click-monster@reddit
Agreed. They were perfect for each other but not in a good way if that makes sense
Normal-Reward7257@reddit
Whenever I read about Courtney Love I immediately think about the hot mess live "interview" with Madonna during one of the MTV award shows. Made a complete ass out of herself, but I knew plenty of girls at the time who thought she was the ultimate cool girl because she was an edgy counterpoint to Madonna.
starker@reddit
I just think about how she stripped at magic gardens and how much a shit hole that place was.
Due-Explanation-7560@reddit
I think how she killed kurt
red286@reddit
It's kinda funny that Madonna was seen as "edgy" in the 80s and early 90s, but then by the late 90s she was seen as this radio-friendly generic pop-star.
buckswoops@reddit
Derrrrr
Somegirls85@reddit
I don't care what anyone says. Courtney Love is dope
mtron32@reddit
Yup, I’m also a fan, love her voice and her band
just-_-just@reddit
I think most celebrities themselves aren't worth our attention, but what they make can be dope. Courtney's Hole album was actually pretty good. But you definitely could hear Cobain in there either wrote some of the songs, they were stolen, or he helped her. Either way the album is good for that reason. At least it was in its time, I haven't listened to it in many years.
Somegirls85@reddit
I mean Celebrity Skin came out on 1998 which was her biggest commercial success I don't think Kurt helped her on that album
0dayssince@reddit
He did not. Dead. But Corgan did.
red286@reddit
Corgan did, evidenced by his songwriting credits all over the album.
It's weird that people think Cobain helped Love far more than he did. He has a single songwriting credit on Live Through This, "Old Age". That's the sum total of his contributions to Hole. One song.
Ws6fiend@reddit
Also it getting on the American Pie soundtrack gave it a boost as well.
just-_-just@reddit
Of course music taste is subjective. I don't really think commercial success means it's any better. That album didn't sound anything like Nirvana. I was just saying I thought the album that sounded like nirvana was their best and it was at nirvana's peak and also of their relationship. You can just hear it and while I think their story is really sad, the album is good.
writersontop@reddit
??? Hole had more than one album
just-_-just@reddit
Oh my bad I omitted the name of the album!
Live Through This
S_A_R_K@reddit
bfume@reddit
You missed the “a” between “is” and “dope”.
yamahowzer@reddit
No I think they meant more than 50% by volume
Ultimate-Flexionator@reddit
she plausibly paid to have kurt murdered. multiple testimonies to that end.
UbiquitousBot@reddit
Weird she didn't mention Starf*ckers Inc or Professional Widow. Guess they didn't fit the vibe
Fabulous-South-9551@reddit
She said 1997. The Fragile came out in 1999.
UbiquitousBot@reddit
Oh dang you got me.
BigPoppaStrahd@reddit
Because those songs weren’t allegedly played on the radio at the specific moment they’re talking about, but a radio station allegedly played three songs by the same artist in a 6 song rotation, Could have been a triple play moment and they decided to play three songs by smashing pumpkins that were about Courtney Love because that station hates her, or something
UbiquitousBot@reddit
Impressive-Record839@reddit
starfuckers definitely was
BigPoppaStrahd@reddit
Stacked Actors as well
Weird-n-Gilly@reddit
I remember seeing Hole on tour with Manson. Went to show liking Hole and being not sure about Marilyn, left loving Manson’s set, and hating Hole, with Courtney talking shit between every song.
Downtown_Anteater_38@reddit
Don’t forget Professional Widow by Tori Amos.
JediXwing@reddit
Too Cool Queenie - Stone Temple Pilots ?
I always thought that was about Courtney Love as well. No?
LineImpossible3958@reddit
Now people adore Courtney Love? No, she was never adored really, tolerated mostly.
Long_Manufacturer709@reddit
Gross! She was responsible for Kurt’s murder. She should be wasting away in a prison cell.
Business_Door4860@reddit
"I love that" is a lazy as hell response.
TexMoto666@reddit
Coat-tails of a dead man by Primus is about her.
Maleficent_Gas5417@reddit
Nah fuck her
WodensEye@reddit
“You’re so vain” energy here
HighSeasArchivist@reddit
She has been total garbage for almost forty years.
Cthulhus-Tailor@reddit
If you mean “that girl that clearly murdered her husband”, then I agree. She was a drug-addled mediocrity otherwise. This podcaster needs better role models. And a better voice, that vocal fry makes me want to tear out my own eardrums.
sabrewolfACS@reddit
indeed, her vocal fry... not quite as tedious as sam altman's, but still really grating, innit?
Josephthebear@reddit (OP)
Prove it
0dayssince@reddit
I was a humongous SP fan (until I met Billy in 2016) and never knew those songs were about her. When I say humongous, I mean, tons of bootlegged concert tapes and cds, tattoos, my first license plate was a song title of theirs, humongggggous fan. I’m kind of annoyed that I didn’t know this.
Kevsbar123@reddit
Am I being Spinal Taped by this podcaster?
atari2600forever@reddit
Lol. No she wasn't, she was a fucking mess and a rank opportunist.
jcapi1142@reddit
Cuntney Love
garden__gate@reddit
Love Yasi! She’s definitely one of us.
lakebistcho@reddit
I loved this podcast until they stopped playing the music in the episodes
Upset-Word151@reddit
Fuck yeah, Courtney Love is that bitch! Have always loved her despite all the hate