H.R.8250 - Parents Decide Act (2025-2026) this is bad
Posted by disgruntled-Tonberry@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 243 comments
H.R.8250 - Parents Decide Act (2025-2026) is a bipartisan bill introduced in April 2026 to mandate operating system (OS)-level age verification for digital devices. It requires OS providers (like Apple, Microsoft, Linux) to verify all users' ages, with parents/guardians verifying users under 18, aiming to boost parental control over app access and online safety.
Key Aspects of the Parents Decide Act (H.R. 8250):
Operating System-Level Verification: Instead of app-by-app checks, the bill requires the phone or computer OS itself to verify the user's age.
Parental Control Requirements: If a user is under 18, a parent or legal guardian must verify the age, giving parents direct control over device access.
App Developer Integration: OS providers must create a secure system for app developers to access necessary age information to enforce age restrictions, as seen in the text of H.R. 8250 on GovTrack.
Usage Examples: The act applies to creating accounts and using operating systems, likely forcing age checks or biometric scans to activate devices.
Liability Safe Harbor: The bill provides protection for OS providers from liability if they follow the mandated age verification procedures.
Sponsors: The legislation was introduced by Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ-5) and co-sponsored by Rep. Elise M. Stefanik (R-NY-21).
Context: It is part of a broader set of, or related to, efforts to improve online safety, alongside Sammy's Law, the Kids Online Safety Act, and COPA.
this is a horrible invasion of privacy and will cripple if not dismantle parts of Open Source like Linux and OpenBSD people need wake up there about to try and lock everyone and everything down when I tried to bring this to people's attention it just feels like everybody's just gone. feels like I'm standing in a burning building and everybody's just complaining about the flooring needing Swift. Is no one aware of any of this
Djglamrock@reddit
How would they even enforce this?
Stardog2@reddit
By attaching your name, ip address, and SSN, as well. You can't enforce any law without attaching the violation to a specific person or entity. I suspect it will not only leave a giant security and privacy hole, but it will serve to extract very profitable fines from parents of post adolescent children who try to work around this restriction. it's a de facto computer tax.
Djglamrock@reddit
I guess I look at it like will they actually enforce it. How many millions of people are in America illegally? How’s that goat rope going?
Stardog2@reddit
I don't understand this comment. Three unconnected sentences. Can you expand on this a bit? BTW, what's a goat rope?
Djglamrock@reddit
I don’t think it will be actively perused and prosecuted if it actually gets signed into law and acts like everybody fears it does. The second sentence was just showing lots of stuff as illegal and there’s just not enough manpower or care to enforce everything.
A goat rope is another term for shit show. Looking at it I can see how the sentences are confusing and that’s my fault for using dictation.
IanFoxOfficial@reddit
I fucking hate this and don't want it. I hope enough distros just ignore this BS.
aenae@reddit
On the other hand; id rather have my os tell my apps what age bracket im in instead of every single app asking for a birthdate.
markaction@reddit
It is better the app does it. You can always avoid that app. But at the OS level you have no choice and it will be used for mass surveillance -- they never cared about the kids that is a front
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
You can always avoid that OS.
If that sounds hard, try avoiding any app that is either developed in or wants to do business with the US. For a start, you'd have to stop using Reddit.
markaction@reddit
And I would leave Reddit, Facebook, and all of those if I had to upload my ID or scans ofy face.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
I think I would too. But can we agree that this would be bad? You'd end up opting out of pretty much any app built in the US, or that wants to do business with the US. A lot of Europe runs on Whatsapp, and Signal is a US company, too. I can't think of too many apps I use that don't have some connection to the US.
If the OS does it, you can always implement an OS that doesn't require scans of your face in order to lie about your age to apps.
Away-Lecture-3172@reddit
You cannot, OS level verification would 100% involve TPM/secure enclave and you cannot evade those. Meaning you cannot fake a token/certificate unless you have access to government infrastructure. The process is very similar to TLS/SSL we are all used to.
You can check what EU made in their app for reference. You can hack it, but not re-implement/fake without spending a lot of time, cash and effort.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
Why? The California law exists, and it requires no such thing.
Away-Lecture-3172@reddit
We have a federal level bill now, along with other states requiring ID verification. Even is CA law will stay untouched OSes will implement full verification to stay compliant, and you will be forced to identify fully if you try to use any civil services and social networks.
Eventually they will stop all access for non-compliant hardware.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
The federal law follows the state laws that target app stores, not OSes. But that's the one you're worried about.
So whether the law targets an OS or an app store has nothing to do with whether it'd require TPM-level verification.
markaction@reddit
Are you a top 1% commenter because you can't understand people have different opinions from you and never stop replying and replying. Go away.
Away-Lecture-3172@reddit
Most likely they will prevent you from using other operating systems via secure-boot and trusted computing, this bill is only the first step.
IncidentalIncidence@reddit
if you think anybody in Congress has the technical knowledge to understand what secureboot is, I have a bridge to sell you.
besides, it's extremely unlikely that anybody will be all that concerned about the half-a-percent of linux users who are running a distro that chooses not to implement it to mandate secureboot or whatever. The websites that are asking for age verification just won't work because they won't get the OS age signal.
Away-Lecture-3172@reddit
If this bill will pass Congress won't have to change it again, it redirects all technical questions to FTC and other entities. Most likely they will see a number of people trying to evade and eventually block the gaps make regulations more and more strict. It's not something that happens in one or even two years.
It easy to add more regulations once the law is established.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
If you're gonna make a slippery-slope argument, then this is pointless. Requiring the app to do it is "only the first step" towards making the OS do it.
iAmHidingHere@reddit
I don't see the issue since I would never use these, by choice.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
You'd never use any app?
I mean... for a start, you'd have to stop using Reddit.
iAmHidingHere@reddit
Reddit is a website. I use Firefox to access it.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
Firefox is an app built by a US company, Mozilla.
Also, it's not as if Reddit, the US website run by a US company, would be less likely to have to follow these laws than Reddit, the mobile app.
iAmHidingHere@reddit
If Firefox was to require this, I would change browsers or simply maintain a local fork.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
At which point it might be easier to do that with an OS. Browsers are huge things to maintain forks of, and they update constantly.
iAmHidingHere@reddit
Depends. Maintaining a simple patch is doable. I doubt Mozilla will do much with to enforce this.
aenae@reddit
Maybe not you, but i enjoy using Steam for games, Netflix for series to just name two
Open-Impact-1607@reddit
lets all jeopardize our privacy so you don't have to enter your birthdate too many times
iAmHidingHere@reddit
Then you can share your data with them as you please. Haven't you already shared this with Valve anyway?
lonelyroom-eklaghor@reddit
I remember my childhood when I used to use Logo or BASIC or even Microsoft Paint as part of our school curriculum.
These days, governments are implying that using computers is detrimental for the children
danb1kenobi@reddit
They still teach coding in school, but growing up with the wonder of technology is long gone. Everything is magic and no one cares.
Great for IT job security, terrifying for the future of the tech-adept population.
ndw_dc@reddit
Similar idea to the themes of Carl Sagan's book The Demon Haunted World:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World
danb1kenobi@reddit
Great book, though I worry we skipped over that phase and went straight to Warhammer 40k, or pre-Butlerian Dune.
The science is there, society depends on it, but fewer people understand it by the day.
See also: COBOL, aka: the time bomb ticking down until we run out of old nerds.
ndw_dc@reddit
Yeah ... I fear that an under discussed consequence of technological development is that we may be entering a new Dark Age of sorts. This thread is about one aspect of that (increasingly authoritarian control of technologies that were originally developed to increase individual freedom) and you've identified the flip-side to that coin.
It's be like living in Europe before the Gutenberg Bible, only that instead of gatekeeping written text, the powers that be will gatekeep true information and the means to educate oneself to learn how that technology actually works.
Despite the roadblocks that are being put up every day, I find myself only wanting to learn more and rely on my own hardware, to at least do some small part to push back against this.
IanFoxOfficial@reddit
Yeah. If it wasn't for the toying around with qbasic and later making sites on Geocities etc. I wouldn't work in the field where I work today probably.
And we also passed around stuff we shouldn't have seen... We turned out ok tbh.
Although, current state of social media is atrocious. Back in my day it was forums, IRC and the first social media like Netlog in Belgium which was genuinely nice to meet people instead of ads and influencers.
HowIsDigit8888@reddit
Artix and devuan at least have stated they won't go along with it
DoubleOwl7777@reddit
Parents decide. nope. the state decides. fuck this shit.
AngryDingo@reddit
Whenever they want to pass some horrible bill they always call it something like this. Like the SAVE america act (makes it harder to vote) the PATRIOT ACT (enables mass surveillance) etc etc
tubemaster@reddit
Don't forget the Inflation Reduction Act!
OdinsGhost@reddit
Right? I, literally, decide the very things this bill is claiming to give me the ability to do. And I do it without crippling the open source community or getting the government involved in my parenting of my children. This bill? It's neither about parents nor about children. It's about control.
Aurelar@reddit
They always use some 1984 newspeak title for bullshit bills like these.
cyrand@reddit
Right? Fine as a parent I’d like to decide for my kids not to be tracked everywhere they go by everything and everyone
devonnull@reddit
Why can't we all just enter the date as 1/1/1970 and have that as the default date?
djao@reddit
The problem isn't the age attestation. The problem is that the law requires its implementation in the first place. It's a direct attack on free software. Forcing you to write software a certain way is the opposite of freedom.
devonnull@reddit
Yes...but also setting it for the UNIX epoch is a form of rebellion.
Actual__Wizard@reddit
This doesn't make sense. Operating systems do not have content that is not age appropriate. The apps and sites that produce content are the ones that have age inappropriate content, so why are we age gating the wrong thing?
IncidentalIncidence@reddit
I mean I think it's a bad bill too, but the OS itself wouldn't being age-gated; the bill would require the OS to implement an API that allows applications and/or websites to request a verified age signal for the current user. Similar to the way a website can see a browser's user agent, giving information about the system it's running on.
Actual__Wizard@reddit
Right, but now your OS is acting as part of the age gateway. So, you can just switch users... That doesn't really do anything...
Also, what if the sites that have the bad content, don't participate in this age gating scheme?
So, the problem with the content providers not age gating their age inappropriate content is still not fixed in any way...
darth_chewbacca@reddit
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the problem is. The problem isn't that children are accessing inappropriate material, the problem is that big tech might get sued for children accessing inappropriate material.
The goal isn't to save kids, the goal is to save corporations money. The bill seems decent for that goal.
Actual__Wizard@reddit
I thought we were having a serious conversation about the laws in our country. So, they're trolling the government is what you're saying?
voyagerfan5761@reddit
The best theory I've seen (this isn't my original thought, but I'm writing it in my own words) is that the biggest of big tech—think Meta, especially—don't want to be responsible for doing anything related to age-gating beyond accepting an age signal from the user's device and acting on that.
They want to hand off actual "verification" (or attestation) of the user's age to someone else. Foisting it upon the OS vendor accomplishes that, so no one other than the OS vendor has to deal with the PII.
(OS vendors have no reason they would want to be responsible for validating and storing any PII that might be required to verify a user's age in jurisdictions that mandate it, mind you. They're just lower on the lobbying food chain than social-media giants.)
I_Arman@reddit
It's very obviously manipulation from tech companies. But less about markets, more about Facebook not getting in trouble again for marketing to children because this time it's "The OS's fault"
AngryDingo@reddit
And how do they plan to enforce this on Linux distros? Lol
darth_chewbacca@reddit
IANAL I read the bill as more of a carrot than a stick. What the law does is provide liability to anyone who enacts what the authors of the bill want.
So when little billy h4x0r reads too much reddit and goes nutzo, the parents of billy's victims can't sue the distro vendor if the vendor enacts the provisions.
It's a "Nice piece of technology you got there, be a shame if anything were to happen to your bank account."
Small distributions only get small amounts of monetary contributions, they can't hire the lawyer to defend themselves AND fund software development at the same time.
Buddy-Matt@reddit
The first part is correct. There's no good reason this couldn't be made optional unless the user wishes to access potentially harmful age restricted content online.
As for crippling and dismantling open source... Imo, thats just pure knee jerk panic doomerism. Firstly, there are plenty of open source projects that skate pretty close to the wind in terms of legality that both survive and thrive. Looking at the Servarr stack in particular, a suite of open source tools that exists pretty much explicitly to flout copyright laws. Not affected by the fact there are laws banning exactly what the vast majority of its user base are using it for.
Secondly, open source actually becomes more desirable in the era of age verification. Where you can inspect the stack, you can have confidence about how your data is stored and processed because you can read the code. This vs the guaranteed to be super opaque services Apple/Google/Microsoft implement. Or to put it another way, I'd be far happier my Linux partition asking me to prove my age than my Windows one.
Im not saying that these laws are good, or defending them, but I am saying that people need to stop wailing pure worst case hyperbolism and keep a foot in reality.
Visikde@reddit
A nice legal slight of hand to shift liability away from social media companies
What would the oversight look like?
Chances are this is the appearance of action
DizzyCardiologist213@reddit
there's no reason it couldn't be required to be optional, except some large fraction of the purpose has nothing to do with safety. It's entirely about giving the wealthiest platforms that make wealth off of something that's addictive and can lead to grooming opportunities etc....giving those platforms some legal leverage. I'm sure that will not be the only thing it gets used for, though. The reality is, it leads further to exact identification of users both for surveillance and a higher quality (much more profitable) data stream for the same pigs that want it.
Buddy-Matt@reddit
And my rebuttal is that any hidden agendas very much dont count as "good" reasons.
DizzyCardiologist213@reddit
absolutely right.
atl-hadrins@reddit
Kids won't be learning Linux, so grey beards like me can stay employed longer. 😁 /S
jmgloss@reddit
The implication of this bill is that everyone using a computer is a criminal suspect.
richardxday@reddit
How will it 'cripple' open source projects?
PJBonoVox@reddit
Yet to hear an answer on this from the millions of regurgitated posts on that subject. We'll just hear "tip of the iceberg" or "slippery slope".
argh523@reddit
Previous discussions were about the Californian versions that were basically just an OS setting that could be whatever you wanted. This Bill is a bit different. The first half sounds like the Californian version, but in the second half, there's a part where the Federal Trade Commission is given the power to decide how to "verify the date of birth of a parent or legal guardian"
That's a huge difference to the Californian version. That version would have basically treated phones and computers like porn magazines and beer. You can't sell it to a minor, but it's not actually illegal for a minor to use it. So not like a controlled substance, just age-restricted at the point of sale. And parents can use whatever age-setting they want for their kids tablets.
But this bill is different. So, only a verified "parent" can change the age settings. That means by default, everything is locked down like you're a child, and only verification with the government gives you real unrestricted access. That means a "parent" is really everyone with a phone or computer who wants the full uncensored internet.
So, it's not just a universal parental control mechanism like the Californian version. It requires everyone to do actual age-verification, meaning you send your ID and maybe some live video with your face to the government. And the actual work is probably handled by "trustworthy" private partners, like Palantir, a leading provider of such services..
This means the end of anonymity on the internet. It associates every device with a real person. Things are bad enough with most of the internet (that people actually use) just being a small amount of apps, linked to a handful of accounts, full of personally identifiable information. That means a handful of tech companies have extremely detailed logs of what you do, and really what kind of person you are. But with this act, every physical device has to check in with the government. And there is really no reason is has to do that to serve the function of effective parental controls. The only reason to do that is if you want the identity of every user
teleprint-me@reddit
Simple answer - resources to comply.
The added complexity and security implications are genuine concerns as well.
The vagary sets precedent for more intrusive laws and enforcement.
This essentially creates a legal walled garden that removes liability from those that can comply.
If it gets embedded into the hardware level, then it could become illegal to tamper, modify, or overwrite the system configurations - which is already illegal but lenient enough that we can still hack our hardware.
The list goes on. Just think about it - the possibilities are endless.
PJBonoVox@reddit
So "slippery slope" this time then.
teleprint-me@reddit
Think about all of your private information being required starting with just age.
This isnt a slippery slope. Many countries have a goal of making it legally required to have ID verification. Attestation is just the stepping stone.
If you have your private ID which is required by both state and federal just sitting in your OS and 3rd party services hosting that same data, that makes everyone a target for bad actors.
Think of all the data leaks and breaches alone in the past 2 years, let alone the past 10 or 20 years, which have only escalated in range, scope, and veracity.
Now we all have our private info required to log in, use, and interact qith any computer system.
How is that not a security concern?
Zero proof knowledge encryprion is not a panacea and will not resolve these issues because while the Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algortihm is currently the most secure, it is vulnerable, has been attacked successfully, and even exploited.
The value behind that private information which is your responsibility to protect now becomes a liability, especially as Machine Learning and Quantum Algorithms continue to advance and further threaten our current security.
DragoniteChamp@reddit
Only thing I can think of is some act being put into place that prevents programs from running if they don't ID check.
zlice0@reddit
less for programs and more for sites from what it seems. at least on the desktop side. android stores and what not i guess it'd be to disable installing adult stuff.
richardxday@reddit
Exactly, if there are good reasons why these changes prevent open source providing outstanding programs for everyone then I'll get behind the push back.
But so far it's just hyperbole and emotional reaction instead of hard facts.
However, something like adding back doors to E2E is demonstrably bad and problematic but it's still being pushed.
PJBonoVox@reddit
I just got downvoted without an actual answer. Which is an answer in itself.
zlice0@reddit
oh reddit lol
pangapingus@reddit
Because it's likely with the FTC having the buck shoved on them to say "trusting the OS' attestation isn't enough, you must verify that attestation" and now to ship an app/program you have to pay the Onfido mafia money per user even for FOSS stuff
richardxday@reddit
Any facts in your response or is it just all wild speculation?
OdinsGhost@reddit
Are you being intentionally obtuse, or are you just unable to follow basic cause and effect chains? There is no way an operating system can do what this law is demanding it do without a third party verification. Meaning third party verification capability is de facto baked into the implementation of the law. meaning massive invasion of privacy and massive cost in both actual capital and resources for any open source operating system project. Meaning the only operating systems that will be able to comply are those produced by, or backed by, major industry players.
You can call that "wild speculation" all you like. That doesn't change the fact that we've seen this song and dance before and it always only ever follows one path.
richardxday@reddit
Well at least your explanation actually makes some sense as opposed to the one I was replying to.
I can see where you're coming from, it's still speculation though, maybe not 'wild' but speculation nonetheless.
I'm not US based so I'm not familiar with how your government turns 'protecting the children' into having a commercial noose around FOSS developers.
My government wants to do stupid things as well but not [yet] this kind of thing.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
That mostly depends what the commission comes up with.
They could decide to do what California did and skip the actual verification. Just prompt you for a birthdate when adding a user, assume devices are only bought by adults and only adults get to be admins. Impact is pretty low -- implementation is kinda trivial and almost done, and you can protect privacy by lying to it. Maybe has weird edge cases like headless systems (who's the "user"?) but not terrible.
Or, they could do something like what Utah did (only at the OS level), and require you to use a proprietary verification service. They could start adding requirements like: The OS must use SecureBoot's remote attestation to prove that it hasn't been modified, thereby crippling people's ability to compile custom kernels and use weird distros. They could also impose severe penalties on app developers who don't adopt this, making people afraid to post weird little projects on Github. Really, the sky's the limit on bad ideas here -- there's some speculation that the Utah law basically defines an "app store" broadly enough to include any open-source repository, so there might be a world where your local Debian mirror has to ask for your driver's license.
Or, the most likely option: It could just not pass at all.
OdinsGhost@reddit
We can only hope. Though given the similarly motivated restrictions being passed left and right for 3d printers, I'm not feeling particularly confident.
zlice0@reddit
ive seen eu versions have something that sounds like tpm which has a additional setup req some ppl may have to face.
idk the biggest issue i see is it says 'protect kids' but then wants to put something in place that will literally enable tracking kids easy. having a single account login flags and links all kinds of things so adding age stuff to the mix is weird and sounds like the opposite of protecting.
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nahman201893@reddit
Lol. Go all the way. Cars, any POS (point of sale), or electronic device.
All smart devices
Watch it burn baby!!!!!?
pangapingus@reddit
I foresee one of the best means of civil disobedience here being reporting literally every device a corpo uses in public spaces, snitch on every single McDonalds kiosk, Wal-Mart self checkout, Flock cameras in Home Depot parking lots, etc. since they didn't verify your age
no-more-nazis@reddit
What's to stop them from ignoring you?
Bacch@reddit
Nothing, but when the system gets flooded with thousands of these and only a handful of legitimate ones, it creates a lot of work.
The CIA handbook for opposing fascism/authoritarianism written back during the Cold War literally calls on people not to openly try to tear down systems, but to gum them up in any way possible. Extra paperwork, dragging out various steps, following rules to the letter such that they slow everything down and make efficient work impossible. If you're the guy who opens the inbox every morning to review reports and there are 6,000 of them reporting McDonald's, Walmart, the OS in someone's car, etc, it's going to take you a while to sift through all of them to weed out the "legit" ones. That's hours of wasted time daily.
fellipec@reddit
I'm afraid nowadays this will just get rid by AI
Oflameo@reddit
We could sue the AI for not complying too.
fellipec@reddit
I like that!
pineapple94@reddit
What if we tie up their AI with other AIs configured to mass-submit these reports? Fight fire with fire, baby!
BRabbit777@reddit
I wouldn't give the CIA much stock in fighting fascism, they installed fascists in power quite a lot.
Bacch@reddit
No doubt. I had it wrong, it was the OSS that put it out, not that they were different people (most of them went on to form the CIA) in 1944. Targeted at Europeans in Nazi-occupied countries who wanted to oppose the Nazis from within. It was actually called the Simple Sabotage Manual. It was targeted towards employees, mostly, but still has some relevance here.
https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/cia-field-manual
pangapingus@reddit
Nothing but setting precedent for someone's defense in court when this admin starts doing selective enforcement and then it'll be non-ignoreable; sure even from there nothing concrete, this country's been sold away a long time
sunkenrocks@reddit
If corporations are people surely it can be registered to the corpo and they'll make an age accepting for them?
Poromenos@reddit
Those will be exempted, of course.
zlice0@reddit
yyyyep. it's so stupid. they clearly don't understand. i keep saying we'll have to shut down all power and water plants. cuz well
disgruntled-Tonberry@reddit (OP)
honestly all that should be off grid anyway but yeah it's a lot of old people that don't understand technology
ImNotABotScoutsHonor@reddit
Ironic considering you don't seem to know what off grid really means.
cockmongler@reddit
Can't wait to verify the age of all my service accounts.
Dashing_McHandsome@reddit
My smart fridge definitely needs this. Those eggs in there are a bit too curvy for young eyes.
Addianis@reddit
We need this in fridges! They have so many jugs, melons, eggs and bananas that we have to protect the children from such depravity!
transgentoo@reddit
Don't forget web servers and machine-to-machine devices!
NOYB_Sr@reddit
Search engine web crawlers. Hope they all get blocked.
trickman01@reddit
Most Grocery stores POS (in the US at least) already know whether a cashier is a minor or not. Due to alcohol sales.
nahman201893@reddit
Edited to remove the ? at the end. Let it burn!!!
PozitronCZ@reddit
Is this some kind of the whole world conspiracy? Why laws like this are appearing literary everywhere in the last few months?
Away-Lecture-3172@reddit
Globalist agenda and unelected multinational entities at it's finest
FastHotEmu@reddit
Do you think there's any chance we'll get a positive global government like in Star Trek? Or is it necessarily going to be the Alliance like in Firefly/Serenity?
I feel like post-WW2 we were so positive with the idea of peace and everyone cooperating... and now we are all scared of a possible future in which corporations rule us through unelected global entities.
Additionally, a lot of anti-globalists commentators immediately bring up racist anti-Jewish nonsense when asked for more information.
I want to believe the positive future is possible, and that an alternative to it that is not unhinged and extreme exists.
Oflameo@reddit
Yes, kicked off by Mark Zuckerberg because he didn't want to age verification in Facebook.
Sensitive_Box_@reddit
💲💲💲
RapunzelLooksNice@reddit
Follow the money.
GimpyGeek@reddit
I don't have the articles at short grasp to me atm but from what I have heard it's been Zuck bankrolling this crap through dark money to PACs he's made promoting this crap. I don't like it, but I also am surprised it's not someone more.... I dunno, clandestine?
ButtonExposure@reddit
Big social media platform such as Facebook are lobbying for this because they want to push the responsibility, and thus the liability, of age verification to use their platforms onto someone else.
I_Arman@reddit
Same as any other bill. Mr. Lobbyist from ~~Facebook~~ Protect Our Poor Babies Fund hands a senator a document and a $50,000 campaign contribution.
zlice0@reddit
ya like the others said. facebook and youtube lost some big court cases and so they pushed for this type of shit. probably so its easier for plausible deniability even though they both have done some crazy weird shit in regards to kids online
gmorf33@reddit
i mean the epstein scandal has pretty much popped the lid and confirmed there's a global elite colluding and shaping the world in the way that benefits them. They are unified and working together to buy legislation and shape everything to their favor and liking. Meanwhile, us peasants are arguing about comparatively unimportant matters in our culture wars, just the way they want it.
ivosaurus@reddit
Meta. They are one of the biggest companies on the planet, after all.
Marsman512@reddit
Because Facebook et al thought it would be a good idea, and money usually trumps actual good ideas unless the backlash is strong enough
QEzjdPqJg2XQgsiMxcfi@reddit
contact your representatives and let them know this will affect your vote.
OdinsGhost@reddit
My House rep is Derrick Van Orden and my Senator is Ron Johnson. Contacting either of them is about as useful as slamming my unmentionable bits in the car door and hoping it cures cancer.
libra00@reddit
Well not contacting them is even less useful - metaphorically equivalent to slamming your sensitive bits in a car door over and over again - so you might as well. They certainly won't do anything different if they don't hear that anyone cares about it.
Samiassa@reddit
I’m planning on doing it once it gets to the house floor
MintyNinja41@reddit
I’ve been commenting this in a few places, but:
If you are an American citizen, call your congresspeople (Congressional switchboard +1-202-224-3121) and tell them you are opposed to HR 8250.
Also, whenever a new concerning bill gets introduced in Congress, check GovTrack for readable context and an assessment of the bill’s likelihood of getting out of committee and then getting passed into law.
If you look here, you’ll see that this bill, while its contents are concerning, has an estimated 3% chance of getting out of committee and an estimated 1% chance of getting enacted.
DigitalChrono@reddit
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Calling the congresspeople to voice an opinion is not as effective as one thinks it is. The bill has bipartisan support, it is about children safety and public sentiment is in favor. Hobbyist Linux users, privacy minded tech enthusiasts don't stand a chance against those as the general public do not usually fit into those categories.
The biggest things that will stop or slow it down is the congressional graveyard you hinted at, technical feasibility and the big tech lobbying against it. Better to root for big tech on this case then some populace movement calling their congressional people, unless there's an influential, well backed group pushing against.
Plus, if it fails on the federal level, it'll be a state battle which has already begun. That technically may make it more worthwhile to contact representatives.
miscdebris1123@reddit
Big tech is a major sponsor of this bill. It reduces their liability and increases the amount of information they can get from you.
DigitalChrono@reddit
I've also read that NetChoice an Chamber of Progress which represents Google, Meta and Amazon are critics of the HR 8250. Guess we'll see in time.
fellipec@reddit
Too big of a chance
MintyNinja41@reddit
I agree! That is why I recommend calling your representatives in Congress if you have them.
DigitalChrono@reddit
A study showed that there is a 11%-12% chance representatives will vote towards the constituents that called in. Albeit that is probably a positive, that's why I don't recommend. That % against huge forces like bipartisanship, children safety, wide support in the USA and globally.
I'll concede to one point...SOPA/PIPA bill that had total support from both sides and failed, possibly because tech savvy people called in, and spoke up about how it could break DNS. Maybe that will happen with this. And I'll give you this and it got me interested to see what representatives say where I live. Not sure I'll ever get rid of my cynicism though.
libra00@reddit
No, this legislation was introduced by Zuck. Someone posted a pretty good analysis here a little bit ago that showed exactly how Meta is behind all of this age verification shit because they're trying to cover their ass by pushing this requirement off onto app developers, OS developers, literally anyone but themselves. Never forget that. This is government by the corporation, of the corporation, and for the corporation.
aftermarketlife420@reddit
How would you even enforce this on linux?
I_Arman@reddit
Enforce? Who cares? Facebook just doesn't want to get in trouble again, so is trying to pass the blame. The less enforceable the better, because then Facebook can say "See? It's impossible!" and not have to bother.
zlice0@reddit
sry youre not allowed to use reddit now because you have a os w/o age api and ppl fukin swear on threads.
so many sites want someone to be at least 13. so like i said above, even if you want to 'not participate' well you may be locked out of generic sites.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
They will make "secure boot" mandatory.
aftermarketlife420@reddit
Wasn't that stolen from linux
zlice0@reddit
think it's more tpm, which has locked out some devices. at least i saw something that seemed like that on a eu version of age verify stuff
no-more-nazis@reddit
Pete Hegseth is going to bomb Linux into the stone age, just wait
aftermarketlife420@reddit
The is that runs the web. Thats gonna be funny. New headline. Windows and MacOS cut off from internet. Lol
no-more-nazis@reddit
You don't even know bro, they have secret weapons that can kill anything. I'm talking stealth, lasers, AI, human/alien hybrid clones. Linux is not safe from his warfighter kinetic capabilities.
svenska_aeroplan@reddit
By making life difficult. Deny access to services unless the OS sends the age signal. If social media companies block access to OSes that don't report the user's age, it won't matter. People won't use Linux because their key apps or websites don't work.
Daktyl198@reddit
Go after the distro developers with legal threats
zlice0@reddit
k but theyre probably going to comply since so many things are held up by linux? at least the big names. and i dont see why theyd care about the small distros.
and on top of that. it will make a need for some type of 'are you 18?' api which even if youre the virgin mary, you probably will need on some type of site if they all started implementing things for that api.
zlice0@reddit
that's an interesting 1 because it's distributed between kernel and tools but i assume theyd just go after linux foundation cuz it's a us 501c
Oflameo@reddit
Scumbags with these ironically names laws. I wanna retaliate by mandating that ISPs are forced to support password for accounts up to 128 char since Linux, MariaDB, and Posgres support at least double that. 15 chars is not enough!
itsdotscience@reddit
Going to something different here. 2 versions. First, what we wrote verbatim, no ai.
Where to begin...let's just go straight at it. Prior to June 2025, such rules would be shot down via prior restraint. Free Speech Coalition, Inc. v. Paxton changes this. It in effect Says flashing your id card is no big deal, an acceptable trade off to "protect" children from "obscenity". More over it states children have no right to "obscenity". As if obscenity at this point is distinguishable from expression.
And the ai "polished" . It took 3 prompts to remove the em dashes (Unicode U+2014) and we abandoned a 20 query session trying to force it to cut that em crap out when first generating.
Where to begin...let's just go straight at it. Prior to June 2025, such rules would be shot down via prior restraint. Free Speech Coalition, Inc. v. Paxton changes this. It in effect says flashing your id card is no big deal, it redefines the burden as merely "incidental", an acceptable trade off to "protect" children from "obscenity". More over it states children have no right to "obscenity", except the bill doesn't even use obscenity. It uses "harmful to minors." Vaguer. Broader. Government-mandated tracking systems for whatever gets flagged. As if obscenity at this point is distinguishable from expression.
Kobra_Zer0@reddit
If you guys in the US do not stop this say goodbye to every small and medium Linux distribution, if they do not shutdown they will limit download from the United States, that is if the distro is not made in the USA.
judasthetoxic@reddit
Which country?
Rhonselak@reddit
U.S.A.
AlarmDozer@reddit
And aside from countries forking it outside, this'll trickle outward.
zmaile@reddit
The rest of the world doesn't get a vote. Nor do we get a representative to call about it. So it matters a lot less what we think than what a USA citizen thinks.
iAmHidingHere@reddit
Seems about average on the craziness scale for American politics.
DizzyCardiologist213@reddit
this is something I'd expect from the EU, too. There would be less freedom and potential debate about it in a lot of other regions.
iAmHidingHere@reddit
For sure.
algaefied_creek@reddit
USA
judasthetoxic@reddit
Oh, could care less about it. Thank you.
D-S-S-R@reddit
European lawmakers are taking notes tho. They always are
brupje@reddit
EU laws tend the be more draconic in terms of infringement of rights and also better enforceable
Trees_That_Sneeze@reddit
Unfortunately, unless your country has a law against this changes to OS's to follow this are unlikely to be US only. Sort of like a shittier version of how America has the approve cookies pop-ups because the EU requires them.
teleprint-me@reddit
Coming to a state near you - Stay tuned!
DizzyCardiologist213@reddit
US. HR means the bill is introduced in the house of representatives
D-S-S-R@reddit
Oh I was wondering about the meaning of that (European here). So the senate has to agree if that one gets passed? Then it gets handed to the White House for signage?
Trees_That_Sneeze@reddit
Close, it's only been introduced so it hasn't actually passed in the house yet. There will be discussion and debate and amendments before it actually gets voted on in the house.
If it passes the house it goes to the Senate where that whole process happens again.
If the Senate makes changes, then it gets bounced back to the House for approval again.
It can theoretically ping pong back and forth a few times, but once a version of the bill has been ratified by both the House and the Senate, then it goes to the president, who has the power to veto.
teleprint-me@reddit
It depends.
States can be independent and if enough states agree, laws can be introduced or override at a federal level. This basically means the law applies to all states.
Enough states have been introducing them, so it's not a surprise that a federal law is being considered.
Both state and federal level have to introduce the bill, then get passed through congress, then senate.
For a federal bill to pass, the president needs to sign it into law if it makes it that far.
HORSEtheGOAT@reddit
Right now its just a proposed bill. Neither chamber has voted on it.
Astravaris@reddit
Correct. Although the President doesn't have to sign. Any bill that the President neither signs nor vetoes becomes law in ten days.
bartergames@reddit
All of these are not for safety but control.
TerribleReason4195@reddit
Didn't the same organization sue valve for doing something as well?
NorthernVenomFang@reddit
I hate these laws... Here's an idea, how about parents actually parent their children.
acemccrank@reddit
This is the problem: devices are often shared in the real world. Family computers typically have a single account used by everyone. Even if the idea is good on paper, and that is a HUGE "if", it won't be practically enforceable.
mtgguy999@reddit
You let a minor use your phone that’s logged in with an adult account straight to jail!
firedrakes@reddit
This would apply to ,pos,bios, firmware and even cars. Very bad bill
KCGD_r@reddit
There is a really big deciding factor that no one is addressing here: the definition of "verification".
If this bill just requires the OS to store the user's age, i.e you just enter it and it gets stored locally somewhere, I really don't care that much, I'll just put some number and be done with it.
If the age needs to be verified, i.e you need to provide your ID to the operating system and be verified by a third party, that is incredibly concerning and implies that the federal government will have software hooks into every computer ever.
Unfortunately this has not been clarified yet, at least not to my knowledge.
KCGD_r@reddit
More info:
https://gottheimer.house.gov/posts/release-gottheimer-announces-bipartisan-parents-decide-act-to-protect-kids-online
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/8250/text#HC127CA413E1542D19E5A6C84F7917F63
From what I could gather: the bill requires the user to enter their age during device setup, and that age is stored by whatever platform and reported to apps upon request. Presumably the parent setting up the device for their child, etc.
While the actual age setting does not appear to require actual verification, the bill is painfully vague and I could not find much specification on how the age verification is actually supposed to work.
ExistingSelection180@reddit
I think it should be optional. I’m a father and I would like to have that control but not that governments have that control.
That when my son installs an OS can tell the OS that he is a minor and not that the OS has to check my age or age. Will they demand later? To Hardware review this.
OdinsGhost@reddit
Oh, how nice of them to include a "liability safe harbor" for operating systems. I mean, it's not like they have any liability *right now* for any issues regarding user age because it's literally not something they have anything to do with or anything...
I hate this timeline, and I absolutely hate Mark Zuckerburg and Facebook, basically the primary lobbying interest pushing this crap.
Djglamrock@reddit
We know what’s best for your kids not you. What could go wrong?
linux_rox@reddit
The question begs to be asked, since it will be easy to work around unless they ask for proof of I’d by scanning the id itself, which is a big, big invasion of privacy, how are they going to enforce it? There is no enforcement mechanism in place.
Like the entire law itself, it’s just a quick pass it onto someone else’s plate and not worry about. Though I do agree parents need to be more active in what their children do online, mainly be being a responsible adult/parent to their kids for what they do.
You know damned well this is just an attempt to reign in the kids because parents won’t.
Har1equ1nBob@reddit
Parents already decide....this is a huge fucking lie
tacomato@reddit
Just stop using a fucking ipad as a babysitter.
OverdueBoring@reddit
This a thousand times over. Parents need to actually parent. (I am a parent and it is not that hard to supervise what my child is doing)
HarVVVy@reddit
How are so many of you missing the point? It's not about age verification, it has nothing to do with age, nor parenting. It's about the latter part - verification. In short this is gonna be a law enforced API integrated on kernel level, and its sole purpose is going to be to snitch on you. If a law like that passes (because the framing is so vague) the API can be mandated to share a lot more, including your digital ID which you will be forced by law to have on your machine. It's an extremely convenient merging of big corporations and government, one's gonna be serving you perfectly tailed ads (the golden goose for companies like Meta and Google), the other's gonna make sure you are not doing any of that pesky "dissident" stuff and with a little persistence, they can put an end to that annoying anonymous internet browsing you've been doing for so long.
chigaimaro@reddit
I do not understand WHY this is necessary. Most of the popular consumer OSes ALREADY have parental controls embedded in them. Instead of these terrible bills, that just ruin things for everyone.. they should build programs to educate parents on the dangers of internet use and show how to simply toggle on child safety controls.
pants6000@reddit
The kids, the kids, think about the kids, throw away your rights for the imaginary kids being pretend harmed by operating systems!
No, you can't have healthcare or education or clean water or air or safe streets or a government that makes any structural sense! Don't think about the kids! Forget about the kids until we need them next time!
BitOBear@reddit
It's amazing they call it the parents decide act when it's taking the ability to decide away from the parents and putting it in the hands of the government in the OS vendor.
I don't see where it lets the parents decide whether the OS reports their child's age category or not. It in fact decides for the parents.
People older than me and a significant number of people younger than me should not be allowed to make technological regulations and what they can prove they understand the technologies and the implications.
This is just a techno Bros trying to get more of our guy at vital personal information and as always they're using what about the children as the root password to the US Constitution when the children aren't in any particular danger and children are better at breaking in past these sorts of things by stealing your parents IDs anyway.
If anything the older you are the more the internet should be restricted to you so that you can't get lettuce spray by scammers and people and pray upon the old.
What happens to citizens deciding?
This is just Apple and Google and meta and palantir trying to trick you into one of their walled gardens so that you won't be walking around all free and capable.
billy_tables@reddit
Linux is not an "operating system provider" by the definition of this act
redundant78@reddit
yeah the bill specifically targets commercial "operating system providers" - the Linux kernel is a kernel, not a commercial OS product, and most distros are maintained by community projects or nonprofits with no central entity to regulate. the real targets here are Apple, Google, and Microsoft.
pangapingus@reddit
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/8250/text
DragoniteChamp@reddit
Ah yes, my favorite operating system provider: windows
Gugalcrom123@reddit
At least in the EU, "person" can also mean a company.
IncidentalIncidence@reddit
same in the US, "person" means a legal person, not a literal human being.
-Ilovepokemon-@reddit
i windows windows 7, its my favourite os
pangapingus@reddit
I've said for years if MS brought back Windows 7 with modern cipher suites, drivers, etc. and no cloud hooks whatsoever, even the more minimal ones 8 brought in, I'd move back in a heartbeat; skipped 8 back in the day, ran 10 a few years into it being around, but switched to Debian/KDE a few years ago and haven't looked back
BinkReddit@reddit
I agree that Windows 7 was the pinnacle of Windows, but I've since converted over, have seen the light, and have no desire to go back to even a modern Windows 7.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Yes. I am the provider, because I control the operating system.
AlarmDozer@reddit
I mean, Linux is just the kernel. Distributions are the closest to operating systems since they blend user and kernel space.
AlarmDozer@reddit
This is to sell TPMs because that's the only place to store such information, which means there'd need to be admin-like password on UEFI.
pangapingus@reddit
Their definition of OS is so overly broad that it likely includes kernels, even firmware, and probably even down to esp32/etc. devices
LordAlfredo@reddit
Heck, it technically would include TI calculators.
RephRayne@reddit
Washing machines will need to have an age verfication capability.
Academic-Airline9200@reddit
Kids clothes in the adult washer
My clothes are ruined!
pangapingus@reddit
Or even radios which is funny because age verification already kinda possible with GMRS/HAM since you legally should be using your FCC callsign, but wonder if they'll use this to go after even LoRa/Meshtastic folks
zlice0@reddit
ppl said this in another thread, but i highly doubt the politicians understand or care about the gnu/linux copy-pasta
AmarildoJr@reddit
Yeah but the distros will bend over.
lonelyroom-eklaghor@reddit
I remember my childhood when I used to use Logo or BASIC or even Microsoft Paint as part of our school curriculum.
These days, governments are implying that using computers is nothing but a bane.
Full_Town_8345@reddit
Please put the country and/or state at the top of the post for stuff like this.
Davoomer@reddit
So I’ll be a criminal until I die, I think…
MoorhsumushroomRT@reddit
The Parents Decide Act is a complete violation of the constitution and we the people shall make sure it is never passed!
matheusmoreira@reddit
So which big tech corpo paid for this one?
alangcarter@reddit
It assumes OSes only run on domestic PCs. What about the VMs spun up by the millions in data centres every day, and users that relate to a function, not a person? How old are jenkins, git, oracle?
Epicinator23@reddit
This would be very unhelpful. It is not the government's responsibility to parent kids. Notice how the verb is "parent". It is the parents' responsibility to parent kids. I think it should be required for every member of the federal government to read 1984 annually and write a small report on it as proof. IDC if that makes governmental duties more expensive. Privacy is worth more than the increased cost in time spent reading the book.
RvstiNiall@reddit
If you want Parents to Decide, then maybe hold them accountable when they do stuff?
If they just HAVE TO DO IT, I think this should only apply to Linux Distros aimed at being "Windows/MacOS replacements", but.....
I just don't understand why they would call it "Parents Decide" if they're requiring Age Verification. I mean if your parents decide you can do something, then why verify their age afterwards....? (It's about getting rid of freedom of speech by tieing YOU to everything you do on a computer. Any computer.)
But if it actually were about keeping children safe, and calling it Parents Decide Act then what follows makes more sense to me personally:
I'm a much bigger fan of "restricted" user accounts. A non-sudoer, non-doaser, etc user who can only access sites allowed via the Admin, restrictable at the Browser level, sure, but not the OS level, which I guess Government people don't understand they aren't the same thing due to how Windows and MacOS lresent things. Tools that allow that already exist on Linux, but IMO should be a built into web browsers for the purpose, and lots of companies implement them (proxy gate with a white-list only setting) , so how hard would it be to make a Parental Controls setting in the browser? Make it system-wide except for password protected browser profiles.
And then as far as content. Well, don't allow Netflix period if you don't have a kids account set up. In a household with small children, your regular Netflix (Hulu, Prime Video, etc) user should have a PIN requirement anyways, where a kid can ONLY access the kid account.
Or better yet, pay attention to what your kids do, and hold them accountable for their actions. Of their actions bring repercussions upon you then you deserve the punishment for failing to be a parent at such a primal level.
RephRayne@reddit
I like how the name of US bills never actually references reality.
This should be named: Parents Abdicate Responsibility Act, Part 114.
I_Arman@reddit
You mean "Facebook Tries To Pass The Blame So As Not To Get Sued Again", right?
Aggressive_Job_1031@reddit
Better make plans how to defeat the surveillance state while we still have time
granadesnhorseshoes@reddit
Yeah, its a terrible invasion and yada yada, but as written its so ridiculously overbroad that it can't possibly pass without killing basically every corporation in operation. Not just expensive, impossible.
Worry more about the next revision of the concept, probably around 2028 to grandstand for elections. By then the corporations like MS, Oracle, Apple, et al, will grandfather and exempt themselves out of the new revised bill.
6YheEMY@reddit
Gottheimer is next up for reelection in 2026.
Here is information about the sponsor, Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ-5) district.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey%27s_5th_congressional_district
6YheEMY@reddit
Rep. Elise M. Stefanik (R-NY-21) is a trump Republican who is not seeking reelection. Here is here district
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_21st_congressional_district
AlarmDozer@reddit
Is this to encourage vibe coding a new operating system? Because the current ones were not developed to spy on their users; they were developed for the users to work.
Correctthecorrectors@reddit
yes
No-Photograph-5058@reddit
Doesn't really sound like parents are getting a say in this?
notrufus@reddit
Why is there no punishment for introducing laws that directly infringe on your citizens? These people always hiding behind kids should have their history searched and lose their right to privacy since they think it’s not important for us.
NOYB_Sr@reddit
The same people who support this will oppose voter ID.
coyote_den@reddit
“(1)Require any user of the operating system to provide the date of birth of the user in order to— (A)set up an account on the operating system; and (B)use the operating system. (2)If the relevant user of the operating system is under 18 years of age, require a parent or legal guardian of the user to verify the date of birth of the user.”
This doesn’t say it will require an online age verification service, but how is it supposed to work as written?
If you enter a birthdate that makes you over 18, all good. If you enter one that makes you under 18, then what? Your mom has to click OK? What is stopping you from doing it? Does there also have to be an adult account on there to confirm it? Not all devices support multiple accounts.
It’s still self-attestation with extra steps.
Guilty-Shoulder-9214@reddit
Coddling your children makes them weak. It’s already bad enough that kids can’t fucking read because of the word recognition bullshit they replaced phonics with. I took the gentoo wiki and handed it to one of these teachers - a few pages, and asked them to define swap and run level and they couldn’t, even though they’re teaching kids that they can always find the context and definition of a word in the surrounding text.
HeligKo@reddit
None of this has to do with protecting kids. The OS is the wrong place to assign accountability for this. This is about tracking. This will lead to databases that actually let law enforcement track IPs or other identifiers back to specific computers and addresses like TV and movies make it look like they can.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Does it have verification like New York's, or is it only a declaration like California's?
mrturret@reddit
Just an FYI, the text makes no mention of any kind of verification. This is an age attestation bill, like the California one. It's obviously still bad, but it's not apocalyptic.
dibis54986@reddit
what about medical devices
thakiakli@reddit
I feel like a big part of this is due to the book "The Anxious Generation"
Arklelinuke@reddit
Literally unenforceable
Imbrex@reddit
I hate these things. As a parent 'deciding' is already allowed. You are not being forced to use tech badly.
Additional-Use-6624@reddit
Welp. Linux is open source people will just delete or make the code that forces it a comment
NoJunket6950@reddit
More garbage sponsored by the Israeli government.
Eternum1@reddit
Meta, as in facebook's parent company, actually
NoJunket6950@reddit
They're both in on it!
Samiassa@reddit
If it doesn’t die I committee (which I assume it will) I’m going to contact my representative to complain about it
markaction@reddit
Do that now! They need to know now
zlice0@reddit
ya, nows the best time to tell them theyre stupid and shouldnt be in a position where they make rules -_-
DinTaiFung@reddit
Orwellian name because it's the government that would be deciding, not the parents lol.
neverJamToday@reddit
"bipartisan"
the Democrat who co-sponsored it is one of the most, if not the most conservative members of the party, and who has voted with Trump more than any other Democrat.
And the other one should be well known by now by anyone who even pays attention to politics even a little as someone who is more than happy to throw the country and even the world under the far-right bus for a little more personal power.
Huge_Lingonberry5888@reddit
So let me see, if i got this right... I cant source code my OS? And you say I cant compile it the WAY i want? And i cant distribute it in a heartbeat over highly secure torrent ?! OMG What you were saying?
donnaber06@reddit
I left the USA and moved to Perú in 2024. This shit sucks.
Active_Literature539@reddit
Personally, I think that ALL of these bills are bad. It is the parent’s job to watch over what their children are doing, not the OS manufacturers, and most CERTAINLY not the governments. There need to stop with the bullshit, and SERVE us, not RULE us!
diplofocus_@reddit
Huh, I can think of a few entities which would find it very convenient to offload user verification to the OS, so that any future... mishaps can't be blamed on them.
The mass surveillance aspect probably doesn't bother them either.