Just finished the series for the first time. WTF was this shit
Posted by ryeandpaul902@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 83 comments
[removed]
Posted by ryeandpaul902@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 83 comments
[removed]
bribrirandomluv@reddit
I hated how brutal her ending was. I understand she had to die but this was overkill.
Queef_Muscle@reddit
Was this during the Jesus episodes? I kinda stopped watching when they went that route. I was just there for the Greek gods.
jadziaandaraktajino@reddit
I Guess I understand what they were trying to do. But they definitely went about it the wrong way I think. She technically saves a bunch of people which is good and all but it's people we've never heard of until the last episode.
tattoos_from_hell@reddit
I never actually finished the series. I've watched the first five seasons 100x over, still have them all taped on vhs somewhere, followed every episode on Lala's Xenaverse, had Xena posters on my ceiling... but could never bring myself to watch any part of season 6. Xena and Gabs are still frolicking around together in my mind.
RynnB1983@reddit
I hated this ending. I know it was more for shock value, but Xena didn't deserve this. it made no sense considering all the times she had died before and now she has to be mutilated like this? makes no sense. even lore wise it doesn't fit the series as it was.
either way, the series finale always gets me...especially the ending scenes that I always break down crying through.
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
shock value? honestly, some of the scenes of the show can be hard to watch.
RasslerVaan@reddit
I've always saw everything that happened to Xena in the finale as the literal past come back to haunt her, including her own actions against others. On the other hand, a beheaded and wounded Xena never struct me as externally disrespectful (par for the course for Tapert/Raimi tbh), but I do get the sense that (story-wise) the general who killed her WANTED to humiliate her (given her reputation in Japan). That plays pretty well with how Gabrielle denies him an "honorable death".
ViolinViolence@reddit
Agreed.
Competitive-Put1047@reddit
In the extreme minority where I not only loved the finale but was actually ok with this shot. I definitely understand how hard and gruesome it is to see though. I think this was just a product of its time and I don't mean that disparagingly. Violence was becoming harsher and harsher on TV and Xena was kinda at the forefront of that
ViolinViolence@reddit
In regards to the scene in question and not the entirety of the ending, I have no problems with the violent/gruesome nature of the scene. It is the finale. She is rather impermeable. They are driving it home. She was supposed to stripped of dignity. She was supposed to be slaughtered. She's dead dead. Not maybe come back to life dead. The beheading makes it harder for Gabby to get her whole body to bring her back, so she has to go through her own battle to get it back. In some ways, the torch is being passed. She is now not just a warrior, but the warrior princess. She's not Xena's WP. She's Gabrielle's.
Xena also let herself be killed. She died with dignity and that's all that really matters. They could do what have you to her body, it's her spirit that we should care about.
RotaVitae@reddit
I don't even know that samurai displayed the beheaded bodies of the dead. They did display heads to their enemies, but not the corpse. This shot seems just gratuitous.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
the psychology behind it is funny I guess. I didn’t mind the shot where they showed her head on the table but this shot made me feel so sick. I had to actually pause the episode and take a break. It’s kind of soured the whole series for me. She had to stay dead because of… reasons? Gabrielle even was like “Xena that’s not right” and she’s basically like “IT IS WHAT IT IS”
StyraxCarillon@reddit
I just watched the episode where Xena died and M'Lila's spirit convinced her the world needed her to come back so she could fight evil. They threw that whole premise in the toilet.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
the ending seems so tacked on with so little thought behind the explanation. like when Cirra burned down because of her army she took full responsibility and the souls of the city didn’t hold her accountable ? no mention of them being denied their “state of grace” while Xena lived?
and countless other examples throughout the series you could say the same thing for
SakuraTacos@reddit
So the difference between the deaths in Higuchi vs everyone else Xena killed is that when Akemi killed her father, Yodoshi, he became a demon that trapped every single soul that ever died in Higuchi from that point on. So when Xena accidentally set fire in town when the villagers attacked her, all of their souls got trapped with Yodoshi. That wouldn’t have happened in Cirra or Chin or anywhere else Xena committed mass murders
Now, why those Higuchian souls’ ~state of grace~ were tied to Xena’s death and not the main villain Yodoshi is a whole other plot hole born out of wanting to keep Xena dead for reasons outside of pure storytelling but not having the time to flesh out something better
faerieberrie@reddit
If they were tied to Xena's death, she should have been able to die, set them free, come back to life, and ride off into the sunset with Gabrielle.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
this makes sense- if anything their souls should’ve been tied to Akemi. it’s the plot equivalent of mental gymnastics
FiteMeMage@reddit
It was truly a garbage way to end a series tho, 100%. It genuinely felt so rushed and it really seemed to defy the logic already established in lore, I mean, come the fuck on???
StyraxCarillon@reddit
Exactly. And how was Xena responsible for the deaths of 40,000 people who couldn't be bothered to leave a burning city? She didn't intentionally set the city on fire.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
but Akemi gets her state of grace ?? Akemi was the one legitimately responsible for those people but the powers that be (sorry for a Buffy/Angel term but what else are we supposed to call them) determine Xena is the one who’s left holding the metaphysical / spiritual bag?
give me a small fucking break right now before i crash out
Yhostled@reddit
I read somewhere - and agree - that the last few episodes were just aired out of order. Xena goes to Japan, then Caesar rewrites history, unwittingly bringing Xena back to life, then the series ends with Gabrielle's birthday. It's the only way I insist the series ended.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
love that
motionlessn2k@reddit
The scene was okay. Not everyone gets a happy ending.
GreenFox268019@reddit
I also really didn't like the ending. I understand why they did an homage to the Japanese films that originally spawned the idea of Xena, but they flubbed this ending
ms_103127@reddit
No not really…. If there was a continuation of the series, Xena would have gone through the karmic cycle and been reincarnated. Then she and Gabrielle would have eventually reunited at some point.
Agent8699@reddit
Yeah - showcasing Xena’s naked, headless corpse strung up like that multiple times was … really grotesque.
And totally unnecessary. Solely focusing on Gabrielle’s visceral reaction and her line “give me her head” would have had so much more impact!
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
I can still hear the rage in her voice at that line. Well acted.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
I can still hear the rage in her voice at that line. Well acted.
FiteMeMage@reddit
It was such a shock to see Xena’s DECAPITATED BODY!!! I was genuinely so shook, I just sat there for a few seconds with my mouth hanging open. Like that was truly the most gruesome thing that show had ever physically shown us. I think one of the only other gross and unnecessary things was Gabrielle being raped by Dahak back in S3. XWP had some truly shocking bits here and there, but I don’t personally regret watching it. I love XWP.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
I can't watch The Abyss or Gurkan because of the gruesome bits. I don't even like thinking about those episodes. Also the India one with the arms. Nope.
FiteMeMage@reddit
God. Season 6 was such a shitshow tho. They really went scorched earth. I hated the time jump from S5 to S6, but mostly bc I was really looking forward to Xena and Gabrielle raise Eve right like they didn’t get the chance to do with Hope or even Solan. I really thought that nurture over nature would work with Hope, but the whole Dahak plot like felt like it actually went nowhere lmao. Still love the series, don’t get me wrong, but some choices were whacky.
Sinomatic@reddit
Pure televised trauma, straight into our collective eyeballs.
Jahon_Dony@reddit
That is a nude, headless corpse strung up on a pike of the warrior princess, former destroying of nations and slayer of the mythic pantheon. She never comes back to life either. And a franchise set in Greece of three shows and 7 / 8 movies ends on an island in the Pacific Ocean!
BTW, since it sounds like you watched the show recently. If you could pick one permanent stopping point in the show, having it be the "final episode" (and meaning nothing that comes after it would count), what season and episode would you end on?
pastajewelry@reddit
I would end it on Many Happy Returns or When Fates Collide.
Jahon_Dony@reddit
I didn't realize so many people love many happy returns. Ares kind of got the short end of the stick with his farewell too.
pastajewelry@reddit
I really liked the Sapphic undertones of Many Happy Returns. It's a more classic relaxed episode, too. And it's really nice to see such an open version of Xena. Really shows how far she's come.
Jahon_Dony@reddit
I'm not into that stuff at all, but glad there's something for everybody. Yeah, she's a much nicer and warmer lady than the one we met on Herc seven years earlier, thats for sure!
pastajewelry@reddit
That's cool. I agree that it's awesome the show appeals to so many!
Jahon_Dony@reddit
Well I haven't really seen many of them for the last 25-30+ years, so that's a bit hard of an ask. I enjoyed everything about all of them (the three shows and movies) tbh. The fun. The adventures. The overlapping characters. The mythology.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
i feel like i can’t answer unbiased. after what i just watched i feel like a silly low stakes episode is the only thing i would’ve preferred as an ending now- id want an ending that implied business as usual and they continued on with their adventures.
maybe the episode where the interviewer was chasing them around that ends with him asking if they’re lovers and then the static cuts in? that could be a fun godfather-esque ending that honors the campy tone of the series. or better yet the episode with aphrodite where they fly off together into the sunset on gabrielle’s birthday
i’m sure there’s a better episode that would make more narrative sense but i just want the exact opposite of whatever i just watched
goodbyecrowpie@reddit
I know a lot of people would end with "When Fates cmCollide", but my head canon ending is "Many Happy Returns, " where Xena gives Gab an original poem she had SAPPHO write for her, and then they literally fly off together 🥹
Jahon_Dony@reddit
"Happy Birthday, Gabrielle!"
Jahon_Dony@reddit
I would want something involving Greek myth. The Twilight of the Gods would have been an acceptable stopping point, even though season 6 still had some standouts. I missed all the supporting characters we never got to see or hear about in season 6 because of the timeskip.
Supernatural recently did something nearly as dumb and awful as this, and worse yet, if it had just ended one episode sooner it was the perfect ride off into the sunset.
BTW, I don't really hate the Xena finale as much as many people. Maybe bc I was a kid when it happened. I'm just sad it meant we never got a movie or sequel series. The Director's Cut "movie" version of the finale is really quite good.
TheInvisibleCircus@reddit
I’ve only every seen the finale once and I think I hallucinated it
7Clarinetto9@reddit
I haven't watched that part yet but clicked anyway. I couldn't figure out what I was looking at until I read the comments. 🤢
giveherawinkforme@reddit
She deserved better 😭
Agent8699@reddit
They both did!
Teppany3@reddit
Xena murdered thousands of people, even excluding the 40,000 from the fire. She was a brutal warlord for years; that’s why the show is premised on her atoning for “sins of the past”.
So I would agree with you if it was Gabrielle. And I didn’t love the finale, but I not because Xena’s death is undeserved.
SakuraTacos@reddit
Yeah I don’t mind that she died but I hated that shot, and they did it twice! No one liked it, really, not even Lucy. They thought people wouldn’t understand that was Xena. Idk, I got it pretty loud and clear the first time
It’s tough because the rules of fiction usually says if you don’t see a dead body, the character is probably not dead but no one wants to see Xena’s decapitated body!
ZanderArch@reddit
Honestly, just Gabby screaming, "Where is her head?" into the rain was such a better way of handling it. Just having it be 100% Renee's acting and her reaction to it, they wouldn't have to show this weak ass TV safe decapitated corpse. You experience it through her for a better emotional connection.
SakuraTacos@reddit
I hadn’t thought of that, that would’ve worked for me too! Even if they had showed Xena’s legs in that shot where Gab collapses in the rain and then let Renee fill in the rest of the imagery. Shoot, that’s a much better idea, where were you in 2001?
IseQween@reddit
She even retches. That, seeing Xena's legs and Gabs shouting "give me her head" would've sufficed.
Owl_Queen101@reddit
It’s even WORSE cuz her freaken HUSBAND thought of this AND directed it!
SakuraTacos@reddit
Yeah, Rob seems like a very visual person, like he’s into very visually striking dramatic imagery. And I think there were some points of AFIN (and also Paradise Found) where he just got lost in the sauce. He was living out his Chinese action film dream. And I love that for him, it’s one of my faves so he did some things really well
I don’t judge him for not thinking of Lucy but, when it comes to this scene, I don’t like that he kinda didn’t give due reverence to Xena. That’s our protagonist of 6 years that he himself was always so protective about keeping her heroic; she can’t hold swords to peoples’ necks, she can’t kill women and children, etc because it doesn’t look good for our hero. Know what’s not a good look? A headless corpse. Super undignified. That’s the last time we see our Warrior Princess’ physical body. C’mon now 😮💨 So even if it weren’t Lucy playing Xena, Rob dropped the ball on protecting her image with this moment
(Sidenote: Happy Cake Day!)
alonzo_raquel_alonzo@reddit
I’ve never watched the final season because of this. I loathed Tappert for a long time in spite of all the other seasons I enjoyed. He had no regard for the audience.
reo_reborn@reddit
I think a very very quick flash (maybe 4-5 frames) and that would have meant more than showing it twice like this. :(
Hey_HaveAGreatDay@reddit
I never finished the series so I didn’t know she went out this way and I don’t know the surrounding story here.
That said, I think Xena dying as many times as she did and came back they needed to show her dead dead. Still pretty gruesome for this show I think.
MaryW1965@reddit
Thank you!!! My sentiments EXACTLY!!! 💔
SnoopVee@reddit
I was so enraged when I seen this. Moreso than I was when she was crucified with Gabrielle or any other death because I knew, this was it.
It just hit harder and felt really disrespectful, if that makes sense..
Teppany3@reddit
Ides of March is one of my favorite episodes! Why didn’t you like the crucifixion?
SnoopVee@reddit
Looking back now, its great!! At the time I hated it because we were in a time where they didnt announce season renewals right off the bat and I didnt know if this was how the show would end...Also I was an extremely young boy who had an obsession with Xena and I watched it every Saturday with my great granny. The show had a special place in my life so the thought that it wouldnt return was lowkey devastating, that's all😔
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
it’s the most disrespectful shit i’ve ever seen in my life i feel you homie
StyraxCarillon@reddit
Thank you! I've been salty about that ending since it aired!
LeFreeke@reddit
I’m so confused. I guess I’ve never seen the finale.
demonita@reddit
I’ve never watched that season. For a reason.
Evilbuffy14@reddit
And this is why so many of us agree that AFIN doesn't exist.
Awkward-Buy8266@reddit
I mean it was like something even worse than The Debt showing the beheaded chin warriors bc like...That's our protagonist...I felt that they wanted to be over with the series in a way that was a complete termination of the timelines they went to,i really didn't liked it,i cried lots of times because i just could not stand it,how she died so horribly
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
it’s the most i’ve ever felt a show has said “fuck you” to me at the finish line . i feel like im grieving a loss
Awkward-Buy8266@reddit
Its so sad really,Xena didnt deserved that from the producers,much less from long time collaborator as Robert Tapert 😮💨
00olong@reddit
The ending was interesting
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
Reddit removed the photo I guess which is fair enough. It was a screengrab of a shot that was only illuminated briefly by a flash of lightning.. you can probably guess which one :/
FirebirdWriter@reddit
The pic is up on my end
Latte-Catte@reddit
I approved it, sometimes reddit get to it quicker than us mods.
mistress_of_tiny_dog@reddit
I hated this ending for the show. Hated it. It was so stupid and unnecessary.
urrchvabro@reddit
I hated this ending and it made no sense. I’m just glad they rode off into the sunset in the present day a few episodes before.
darkelipse04@reddit
Ugh it’s been so many years I forgot about that. Not a happy memory.
RatherBeAtDisneyland@reddit
Oh man. Me too. I completely forgot. I think I didn’t want to remember. It took me a while to figure out what was happening in the photo.
Byanychance@reddit
Me too. Wtf
antealtares@reddit
Admittedly, like childhood me didn't understand what I was looking at
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
i am thankful that that is the case for childhood you lmao. i watched buffy growing up and if i had to see this shit but it was her in the finale at the age i was at when it aired i think i would have been legitimately traumatized
Fuzzy_Ability8284@reddit
It was a fever dream, OP. The show actually ended a few episodes back with When Fates Collide. There, there.
ryeandpaul902@reddit (OP)
thank you for respecting me.
Individual-Pay7430@reddit
Sorry, I'm lost. What's wrong with it?