"Meow" on Guard is now national news. Stop!

[-]

chicknsnotavegetabl@reddit

Too busy shooting NDB approaches to meow?

Don't underestimate

[-]

monroerl@reddit

Holding over NDB intersection, non-standard turns, cross tuning but ADF keeps picking up local baseball game, no meows but a few 'boos' for bad ump calls.

[-]

flecom@reddit

The FCC does not care i assure you, we had a local FM that was splattering on one of our ramp frequencies, we filled a complaint, the fcc agent that reached out told us to just change frequencies

[-]

extraeme@reddit

If you changed frequencies you'd likely be breaking the law yourself lol

[-]

Red-Truck-Steam@reddit

As long as they get their $35 they’re happy, aint that the FCC lmao

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

FOQA download and AI would do the trick nicely. With real consequences. It would be really easy to find all the 121.5 transmissions and track them to their source. No new regs needed.

[-]

GulfLife@reddit

That’s not really how FOQA or radio propagation work on a busy ramp/taxiway.

[-]

kaliwrath@reddit

But he said AI. What else do you need? /s obviously

[-]

ZaryaBubbler@reddit

Man, people still trying to find a use for AI...

[-]

SheepherderFront5724@reddit

I heard AI will take our jobs. Didn't think it'd be from some miserable apparatchik narcing to the state over a bit of fun at work...

[-]

ZaryaBubbler@reddit

"A bit of fun" is how people get killed

[-]

SheepherderFront5724@reddit

The US has many more potentially fatal problems to address before they get to this one.

[-]

Mikeman003@reddit

The people who would need to fix this one probably don't have any business fixing the other issues so I don't think that should be a problem.

[-]

SheepherderFront5724@reddit

I think the FCC and FAA have many things they could be fixing...

[-]

SkyHighExpress@reddit

In some European airspace, they have these. A couple of Ryanair pilots lot their jobs when atc sent the company these tapes

[-]

3-is-MELd@reddit

It's interesting how in the US I will hear meowing on guard every time I fly to the US, but in Canada it's a very rare occurance for me.

It's stupid and makes people turn off 121.5 when we should all be monitoring it.

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

Apparently they heard the stupid meow in South Africa. So not really limited to the US unfortunately

[-]

Skyremmer102@reddit

I thought they were copying the Chinese pilot

[-]

Excellent-Gur-8547@reddit

This has been a thing for decades lol

[-]

BrekkenTurrin@reddit

I retired after 30 years as a center atc in 2015 (ZJX/ZID) and it wasn't a thing then.

[-]

Pee_Pee_Enthusiast@reddit

Wat? Meowing on guard was absolutely a thing in 2015. It's been a thing for decades. You are either completely aloof, senile, or dishonest if you say it wasn't.

[-]

BrekkenTurrin@reddit

Nice, you're a charmer.

Guard always on speaker. At ZID, area 6 over central Ohio it wasn't a thing when I retired or the previous three decades.

[-]

Excellent-Gur-8547@reddit

That's... odd. I remember heating stories about this from SkyWest pilots as early as the 90s.

[-]

_Yellow_13@reddit

OP you are aware the meow has been done by pilots of all nationalities in every continent yes?

[-]

3-is-MELd@reddit

I'll clarify my statement. I hear meowing in Canada, but it is very infrequent. I hear meowing in the US and it is nearly every time I fly to the US (100ish flights per year).

[-]

Interestingly enough I got yelled at for talking on guard a few years back, the gotcha was I was talking to a downed pilot of which we dropped a radio to that was tuned to 121.5 so the helicopter could come get him.

[-]

Pee_Pee_Enthusiast@reddit

What the hell? Did you say anything back to him? That is outrageous.

[-]

jonowelser@reddit

Just wanted to say as a layperson that is a super interesting story, and gave some good context for this news and the expectations for using Guard/how strict some see it. Thanks for sharing!

[-]

eitilt@reddit

My pleasure! Our aircraft also had equipment that we could direction find off of a frequency, so in bad weather like this we used it to point at his initial location based off of his ELT that was on 121.5, then everytime we talked to him we could update his position on the chart and send the helicopter directly to his location. So guard is an incredibly useful tool in the Search and Rescue world.

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

Exactly why this stupidity needs to stop.

[-]

Dave_A480@reddit

The self appointed guard police?

Yelling at a CAP flight for using Guard is the height of 'WTF, Over?'

[-]

_Yellow_13@reddit

Yes. I’ve flown over Europe and have heard people using guard for its intended purpose, only for someone to start yelling about being on guard 🤦‍♂️

[-]

_Yellow_13@reddit

U flown over the UK?
It’s not the meowing. It’s all the practice pan that makes me turn it down.
The meowing is normally followed by a swift “on guard”. And everyone shuts up and 20 seconds.

Far more pressing matters regarding aviation than this bs. They’ll know who they are. Hopefully they grow up.

[-]

Wingmaniac@reddit

Practice pan? Like someone makes a pretend pan pan call?

[-]

_Yellow_13@reddit

Yes, I enquired about it as I was hearing bearings and distances until I turned it off while trying to land.

Student pilots in England have at times been nervous to use 121-5 when lost, or rather temporarily unsure of their position. And I do believe this has led to off field ‘landings’

So in order to get pilots less intimidated, during trading for the PPL they’ll be taught to call 121.5.

So they’ll call on guard “G-abcd, practice pan” 3 times.
They will receive a response from center telling them there position. And how many miles from a certain town that I can’t spell. And if they require further assistance.
Obvs not, so they go on worth the day.

The whole thing won’t take long, and I do like the idea of teaching this to student pilots, I’d hate to think of one being to nervous to speak up if lost and running low on gas.

However there’s no doubt it’s a lot of extra chatter.

[-]

shah_reza@reddit

It boggles my mind why they wouldn’t do this without keying the mic and having the instructor play the part of the controller.

[-]

Lampwick@reddit

Learning the words isn't the hard part. Getting them comfortable with pressing the transmit button and broadcasting is. It's a common problem is emergency services of all kinds. You set up a system for emergency communication and inevitably you see two problematic groups: the first is the idiots who call 911/999/etc to report an earthquake, or when their cable/satellite TV goes out, and then there's the second group that doesn't think their emergency is "important enough to bother people". It's a constant struggle to get the first group to STFU and the second to speak up.

[-]

_Yellow_13@reddit

Common sense right, but you’d be surprised how much they’re getting rid of that stuff.

[-]

RobThree03@reddit

Meowing in guard is rarely heard in the western US. Or south of the border. Mostly because there are fewer aircraft operating out there, and not any intrinsic superiority of the pilots who fly there.

It was sort of funny. One time. A long, long time ago.

[-]

iridesc3nce@reddit

I've heard meowing on guard in the western US. One of the first times I tuned into guard actually, first cross-country flight with my instructor.

[-]

RobThree03@reddit

I’ve heard it everywhere.

You hear it more where there are more airplanes.

[-]

LaMortParLeSnuSnu@reddit

It’s way worse on the East Coast. Unfortunately all the dork FO’s that started doing it years ago are Captains now. I don’t think it’s going away…

[-]

320sim@reddit

It’s location dependent in the US. It’s nonstop in the east. Never heard a single meow out west

[-]

soulscratch@reddit

I heard one meow over the Pacific south of Japan

[-]

SeaweedCritical1917@reddit

Same. PHX based and fly mainly west of the rockies with the occasional eastward jaunt. Rarely hear bs on guard out this way.

[-]

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Legal or not, it's unprofessional.

If people had the ability to, and would meow on police, ambulance or fire department radios while they're dealing with an emergency, that wouldn't be considered funny, but for some reason it's completely normal in aviation world.

Just give you to show that there is no limit to immaturity one can descend to while still holding a pilot's licence.

[-]

moodaltering@reddit

One of the big reasons they can’t is our ambulance/fire/police department radios do automatic identification. Every transmission includes the ID of the party that transmitted it. That kind of cuts down on radio abuse.

Changing that would require some pretty big infrastructure changes that the FAA and FCC probably wouldn’t be in favour of because… Change is bad.

I’ve long wondered why the aviation industry persists in using AM modulation for their radius.

I understand the desire to be able to have conflicting transmissions on the same frequency, but the practicality of it actually providing the ability to hear somebody is pretty limited. In addition, modern digital systems can have a signal to noise ratio that’s pretty incredible and the ability to do conflict detection.

[-]

Dave_A480@reddit

Switching from analog AM to digital FM - in addition to requirng every single airplane to toss out tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of avionics - would be abjectly worse in terms of range and communication audibility.

The whole point of using AM air-band is that radio calls don't cut out or turn to static as you get close to the range limit - they just get quieter...

Digital FM means your contact with ATC can drop like a cell phone call.... Not worth it just to be able to police guard better....

[-]

Few_Tale2238@reddit

Probably isn’t worth it for guard, but consider that anyone can get a handheld radio and tune aviation radio frequencies. They can then pretend to be ATC and issue false go around commands, false takeoff clearances when an airplane is on short final, erroneous vectors, and so on. This has actually happened in Cincinnati and is one of aviation’s weakest safety links imo. Being able to find and prosecute these people who put airplanes in danger is absolutely worth the costs

[-]

Dave_A480@reddit

The conversion cost and the loss of communication range ensure it will never happen.

[-]

Few_Tale2238@reddit

We’ve had instances of complete strangers pretending to be ATC and issuing false go around commands. Worse, this could also happen with false takeoff clearances when someone’s about to land. We need to have the technology to find and prosecute people who put aviation safety in danger like this

[-]

Stoney3K@reddit

There's a good reason AM is still used.

Because radio will propagate in a lot of ways and there is always a chance that your signal will interfere with a reflection which is a delayed version of itself.

In AM these just get added together and you get beat noise or echo, but when you use FM it would completely scramble your transmission.

The same would happen when two pilots on either side of a ground station were to TX simultaneously. They would not be able to hear each other transmitting, but both transmissions would reach the ground together and in AM they would be heard talking through each other, which could still be partly intelligible, while with FM you would only hear garbage.

Switching to digital modes for voice would mean retroactively fitting all aircraft with new radio systems and that gets expensive very quickly.

[-]

flecom@reddit

Digital would be terrible, narrowband digital sounds terrible and has a hard time with accents because there isn't enough bandwidth to encode the audio as audio, it translates it into very slow data using a vocoder

[-]

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Here in Europe, plenty of units have autotriangulation, and it's extremely easy to identify who is transmitting at any point.

There have been cases where this has been reported to the airline/relevant aviation authority, and I have to say the amount of crap on 121.5 has reduced significantly.

So it definitely can be done, if there's a will.

[-]

Hour_Analyst_7765@reddit

I figured that too.

I believe they are still searching for MH370 with these methods, but its infinitely more harder because those signals are captured in space or HAM radio's many thousands of miles away.

However if any airport logs voice+metadata, then it could be correlated with known good transmissions for that day (think clock drift etc.), and it should be possible to pin point exactly which plane sent which transmission.

[-]

lostatwork314@reddit

Oh they call our state police network, SPEN, the state police entertainment network. All types of jokes back and forth and making fun of each other.

[-]

Wasatchbl@reddit

Just in case this isn't going through your head right now.

[-]

slogive1@reddit

I'd be more worried if they start barking like dogs.

[-]

gigitini13@reddit

This has been going on for at least 10 years… must a slow news cycle……,

[-]

perpetualthoughtloop@reddit

My take, as ATC.

I don't actually care. And I almost guarantee no ATC cares enough to key up and tell pilots to "act professional". That was 100% pilot to pilot.

Meow, bark, talk shit about presidents, query about crypto or game scores all you want.

Sometimes it's funny.

But understand this, if I'm down the shitter and guard frequency is distracting I un-key it (turn off) or go to the position it's keyed up over a loud speaker and turn the volume to zero.

At that point in time, anybody in an emergency situation communicating on guard is SOL. And that's pretty fucked up.

As humans do, I sometimes forget to key guard back up before I'm relieved from the position.

This happens all over the NAS.

My suggestion: have your fun on guard... in moderation.

[-]

CobaltFermi@reddit

Isn't it possible to triangulate who is transmitting at a given instant?

[-]

RdtRanger6969@reddit

Social media in America has definitely broken a lot of walls that separated various communities from everyone else.

Now, things like specific language sets that used to be a marker of belonging to a specific community can no longer be used to differentiate an actual community member from anyone else. Aviation, and the Special Ops community in the military, are only two examples. There are many.

[-]

RecentAmbition3081@reddit

Stupid morons that think they are pilots.

[-]

Bus_Pilot@reddit

Sorry man, isn’t isn’t on national news only, even on the other side of the planet the local news are showing this… 🤦‍♂️

[-]

Sh00ter80@reddit

Thank you. It’s stupid. I’ll admit it was funny for like 1 min — years ago — now it’s just f-ing stupid. Stop being stupid, please.

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

I never even got why it was ever funny. It was never funny!

[-]

320sim@reddit

That’s why people do it. They’re just getting a rise out of people who get worked up about it. I bet it would almost completely stop if people stopped reacting

[-]

BonquiquiShiquavius@reddit

Maybe, but I'd say they do it because "it's funny". Think of Michael Scott from The Office. That's the character of person who keeps doing it.

You can stop reacting to it all you want, but all they need is one single other person willing to play the game by meowing back. And someone always will.

[-]

Blackstar1886@reddit

People like this don't stop without consequences.

[-]

Doopoodoo@reddit

“People like this” and its pilots meowing 😂 im sorry i know its a serious issue lol

[-]

Wingmaniac@reddit

That's insane. This isn't a video game. This will stop when someone loses their job or licence over it.

[-]

320sim@reddit

People have actually lost jobs over it.

[-]

Wingmaniac@reddit

Good. Wish that was more well known.

[-]

naterthepilot2@reddit

This. Also the response blocks guard longer than the meows do. If you really care about keeping guard freq open for emergency communication stop with the snappy comebacks to meowers 🤷‍♂️

[-]

rtd131@reddit

I saw a video of someone playing freebird on guard which I thought was hilarious but it's also so dumb.

People should really get talked to by the FSDO for this stuff.

[-]

ArctycDev@reddit

I saw a post by someone saying something like "I saw this and now I know what I'm doing on my first solo!"

Dear god...

[-]

Tough-Equal-3698@reddit

It may not even be pilots that are doing it in some areas. You can get radios that will transmit on the guard frequency or any frequency. Ham radios can broadcast on a lot of commercial and non-commercial frequencies that are not legal to transmit on.

So it could be somebody on the ground that is doing it, just like back in the old CB days and even on the ham bands, there were always people talking where they shouldn't.

[-]

deltopia@reddit

I've wondered about that for some time - would a person on the ground with a radio broadcasting on guard near an airport be able to disrupt comms enough to cause problems? Around a busy enough airport with overtaxed air traffic controllers, it seems like any disruption could be disastrous.

[-]

Tough-Equal-3698@reddit

Absolutely. They don't even have to be near the airport. Take someone with a beam antenna pointing towards a distant airport and 500 to 1000 watts of power coming off their radio, they could most certainly be heard and hear what is being said. I use to use my ham radios to listen in to our local airport on occasion, although my radios only covered part of the HF, UHF and VHF bands.

I have other receive only radios that are wide spectrum that would pick up ground control, the tower, planes and a bunch of other frequencies used by the airport. Mostly I listened when we had the air shows so I could hear what was being said between the planes and the ground. Lots of fun. I never have listened to the guard frequencies though, I'll have to break one of the radios out and listen for a bit and see if we get anything like that here in the Portland, OR area.

[-]

radioref@reddit

It’s definitely pilots lol.

[-]

Elegant-Holiday7303@reddit

Did they just watch Super Troopers?

[-]

flecom@reddit

Once they get that syrup in them, they get all ansy-in-their-pansy

[-]

meowonguard@reddit

MEOW!

[-]

flyghu@reddit

I had to scroll this far to find a meow and it's downvoted? What in the name of aviation is going on?

[-]

quik916@reddit

That "ruff ruff ruff" did make me chuckle.

[-]

J50GT@reddit

I only have 70ish hours, but I've still never heard anyone meow on guard. I have however, heard a cascade of barnyard animal noises.

[-]

Born_Associate1005@reddit

Is 243.0 still monitored or just 121.5

[-]

stupid_cat_face@reddit

I give my name as Meow at Starbucks every day. Isn’t that like the same thing?

[-]

michele71976@reddit

Do I look like a cat to you?

[-]

hugh_jorgyn@reddit

Vatsim habits bleeding into real life: SEEEEYA! Meow!

[-]

Psychological-Owl783@reddit

Meow.

[-]

lesserDaemonprince@reddit

mraow :3

[-]

oh-pointy-bird@reddit

Anyone willing to share the lore (meaning: how it started)?

[-]

Crafty_Original_7349@reddit

Stop that right meow!

…I’ll see myself out 😸

[-]

Marklar0@reddit

This reminds me of all the threads angry about how ugly the cyber truck is.

You don't like guard meows, so you chose to post this thread and feed the trolls, which is exactly what they want, so now their behavior is reinforced and they will continue meowing.

It's your fault.

[-]

Milked_Cows@reddit

Yer on guaaarrrdddd!!!

[-]

wunderkit@reddit

When I was in the air force we listened on Navy common all the time and I never heard a meow. Colorful language now and then, but no cat imitations. I seem to have missed all the fun.

[-]

bgarlock@reddit

Pretty sure this has been going on for a very long time.
If there's a sterile cockpit, yes, this is an issue. At cruise level, not as big of an issue in my opinion.

[-]

nchbv@reddit

wait a minute, op isn't making fun of news 😸

[-]

Weak_Decision6660@reddit

“its unprofessional”

[-]

SideEmbarrassed1611@reddit

You can joke on wireless if it doesn't interrupt procedure, other people trying to communicate, or wastes time.

This instance is more a funny moment where everyone let off steam and it did not go on too long. With all the issues in aviation at the moment, meowing and barking is kinda goofy and lets everyone vent out frustration without being mean.

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

One problem is that ATC has to hear it and it distracts them.

[-]

SideEmbarrassed1611@reddit

And this was not too much

[-]

elridgecatcher@reddit

Extremely hopeful this will lead to harsh punishment for people abusing their radio/pilots licenses. Really hope this gets more attention.

[-]

fatmanyolo@reddit

Makes a noise on a non-airport specific frequency

“CERTIFICATE ACTION! THEY’RE ABUSING THEIR CERTS”

[-]

Mazduhh@reddit

It's already been posted here a few times. You think your post is going to do anything to influence any change?

[-]

CardinalOfNYC@reddit

On some level, that is what people believe, yes. Perhaps not on a fully conscious level but I think this explains a good deal of online discourse on almost every topic... People comment because in some deep down sense they believe it is activism. By complaining here, they are helping, in their minds.

[-]

Mazduhh@reddit

Damn, I've actually never thought of it like that. And here I am complaining about their complaints.

[-]

Kruse@reddit

Even the aviation industry has been infiltrated by morons.

[-]

-burnr-@reddit

insert 'Always has been' spaceman meme

[-]

monkeypoxisntreal@reddit

Depending on what frequency they were Txing on, I'd put money on it was someone with a baofeng.

I know they can be unlocked to Tx on GMRS and FRS but those are ~450Mhz not airband

[-]

SuspiciousWhale99@reddit

So meowing is bad, but completely insulting Canada and a Canadian jazz pilot is ok. US is a fucking joke.

[-]

Tangential_Diversion@reddit

Where the hell did anyone say that was OK? You do know people can be upset about more than one thing, right?

[-]

SuspiciousWhale99@reddit

Where is the nbc news article about it?

[-]

Iggy0075@reddit

🤣🤣🤣 "Shame on You" - dude there is a good chance those pilots are not on this insufferable site (reddit as a whole) like the rest of us. And you do realize this all got much more coverage online worldwide before it was aired in "muh national news". Just chill

[-]

airport-codes@reddit

IATA	ICAO	Name	Location
---	EHOW	Oostwold Airport	Groningen, Netherlands

I am a bot.

^(If you are the OP and this comment is inaccurate or unwanted, reply below with "bad bot" and it will be deleted.)

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

Bad bot

[-]

New-IncognitoWindow@reddit

Meow

[-]

elkab0ng@reddit

WOOF

[-]

CardinalOfNYC@reddit

The angry responses demanding "consequences" really help me understand why a fire and brimstone preaching became such a popular thing in Christianity. We have some sort of innate desire to punish percieved wrongdoers. Not to heal them but to punish them.

[-]

DrowningPickle@reddit

Stop that right Meow. It isnt professional

[-]

gnartato@reddit

Why not just shut down the air space temporially as a "show of force" or whatever. It will waste everyone's time and cost the airlines money. This will make the pilots less likely repate this behavior and incentivise airlines to punish/prevent the behavior. It will make national headlines, just like this did, and the behavior would likely stop everywhere.

[-]

fly-guy@reddit

It's even international news, here in the Netherlands it was also mentioned on the news.

Of course anything stupid combined with Americans is newsworthy at the moment, but as a fellow pilot, I also say, STOP!

[-]

CatDaddyTom@reddit

This isn't new. Haven't the idiots been meowing on 121.5 for decades?

[-]

gimp2x@reddit

Most of the idiots haven’t been alive for decades, it gets real bad around the major flight schools, for my area that’s auburn and embry and middle Tennessee

[-]

CatDaddyTom@reddit

Just shows my age I guess. Been flying since 1991. I've heard the "cats" a few times. At least it's not as bad as the 40 meter Ham radio band on 7.200 mhz. That's a very dark part of the radio spectrum!

[-]

nbd9000@reddit

heres the big key: its new generations of idiots. then they grow up and act professionally.

[-]

lprimak@reddit (OP)

The difference is that it's now national news.

[-]

Economy_Link4609@reddit

The real difference is - if they actually punish someone and demonstrate there are real consequences, it'll stop for good. If being national news helps that happen - AWESOME.

[-]

CatDaddyTom@reddit

Now everyone knows about it. :-)

[-]

csbsju_guyyy@reddit

Me-OW

[-]

Tough_Efficiency_719@reddit

And as stupid and frustrating as it is, this is why we call our podcast Cats On Guard. Real airline pilots talking about the dumbest things we've seen (and done) in flight. Plus other not so dumb things. And yes, this is a shameless plug, cause with this story in the news how can we not.

[-]

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

Your post has been removed for breaking the r/aviation rules.

Any post or comment that is advertising any product, service, poll, or similar activities will be removed. Anything that is posted in order to drive engagement to any kind of video, social media page, blog, or website will be removed.

If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail. Thank you for participating in the r/aviation community.

[-]

DifferentEvent2998@reddit

“I think you missed a big Ritalin dose”

[-]

drbigtoe@reddit

lmao meow

[-]

SRT392-Reaper-@reddit

I've heard meowing quite often in Canada...but it's always been around Cat Lake which is not busy airspace lol

[-]

Ecthelion-O-Fountain@reddit

This is not gonna help contract negotiations. Congrats boys you’re fucking with your own money.

[-]

LawManActual@reddit

The more attention you give them, the more they will do it.

Just ignore them and move on. They are seeking attention.

[-]

marenicolor@reddit

Well fellas looks like the cat is out of the ba-errr, cockpit.

[-]

hoppertn@reddit

It’s about time the full power of the government and millions of dollars of taxpayer money is used to address this issue! /s

[-]

post-explainer@reddit

Please provide a source by replying to the message that was sent to you. Failure to respond to that message will result in the automatic removal of this post. Please feel free to reach out to the mod team through modmail if you have any questions or concerns.

r/Aviation is trialing new measures to prevent karma farming. Please feel free to provide feedback through modmail. Thank you for participating in the community!