Tradespeople of the UK. Do all the metals removed and left over materials automatically become your property?
Posted by genxerrr@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 104 comments
Had a rewire, quick as a flash all the old wiring disappeared into the back of the sparkies van without asking first.
Same with the plumber all the old rads and copper pipes into the back of the van without asking.
Same with the builder all the left over materials which I paid for disappeared!
I had planned to take the metals to sell myself and keep left over materials for small projects. Next time I'll grab everything myself.
Boboshady@reddit
They'll have as many customers complaining that "their tradesperson left all the remaining bits of old wire and wood around!!!" as they do "they stole the stuff I paid for!".
Simple communication is key, here. I've had some actually ask, but generally speaking I'd prefer they just take it all. If I want to keep any of it, I'll tell them in advance.
NrthnLd75@reddit
Simple communication? This is Reddit!
sammy_zammy@reddit
Using your mouth and producing words by which communication occurs, what a fascinating concept.
House_Of_Thoth@reddit
It'll never catch on. What would we do with our thumbs? Twiddle them?!
sammy_zammy@reddit
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PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
Maybe so but perhaps donāt take all the valuable scrap that came with the house a customer bought and paid for. Legally it is theirs. Trades know the difference between waste and waste of value as do the home owners. Youāll find 8 out of 10 times they will say you can take it as a good will gesture for doing the work. Just to take it along with everything else is rude and people donāt feel comfortable challenging tradespeople because they donāt want the trouble or to seem ungrateful. Itās awkward. I think the trades do this for that exact reason. Itās a cheeky tried and tested method. Most trades insist itās theirs if you take it and put it to one side. They get huffy and take it back. Not worth the drama. It makes people feel uncomfortable in their own home.
UKAOKyay@reddit
Really not the case, though there may be some value there, it doesn't usually justify the effort of selling it once transportation costs etc are taken in to account, what you'll actually find is the trade person actually has to pay to dispose of the items. Look at it this way, if a mechanic replaced the exhaust on your car, would you expect he or she to give you the old one back?
exhausted-pangolin@reddit
Scrap metal is extremely valuable. There are entire markets for it. The plumber could just build a small stack of copper pipes in his garage and people would literally pay him to come and take them away
Copper pipe from a single house alone would be several hundred pounds worth in scrap value
Cakeo@reddit
If your plumber is ripping all the pipes out, I think it's on you to say you want it left behind.
Everyone else is correct, for the 1 person that wants it 99 would be complaining about it being left behind.
Its not going to be a significant amount to scrap for most people.
UKAOKyay@reddit
It's not as valuable as you may think, it's also taxable and involves labour, transport and storage costs, if the quote for the work stated "Making Good" which I hope it would, good luck trying to prove any kind of theft in court.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
If was the type inclined to resell it for parts. Yes
UKAOKyay@reddit
Would you expect them to give it to you or would you have to ask for it?
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
If the client hasnāt signed a contract where itās stipulated that itās yours to take as wasteā¦ They should ask before taking. Simple manners
UKAOKyay@reddit
They probably have, the quote probably had the term "making good" on it.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
They donāt always let you keep it if you ask. Sneaky like that some of them.
Yuji_Ide_Best@reddit
This is the one. Assume they take any leftover stuff, unless you specifically request otherwise.
If i learned anything in my life, its just to be forthcoming. Nobody out here can read your mind, nor do people all think in the same way, so unless one communicates, they cant be upset about it.
buttnuggetmaster@reddit
Yes, standard practice.
ethanxp2@reddit
Do you take the rubble, plaster etc?
phetea@reddit
Why have you been downvoted to oblivion for this?
Wilfy50@reddit
I assume itās because others assumed it was a disingenuous question. Rubble has no worth, but wiring/pipes do.
phetea@reddit
That's what i was thinking...in my youthful dark addicted days, wiring, pipe and roof lead was my junkie bread and butter. Unless it's changed since the 90's...
Bendy_McBendyThumb@reddit
āTravellersā still rob that stuff regularly, not that Iād call them travellers, cos theyāre actually cunts.
phetea@reddit
Politer description than I'd offer, I'll take the downvotes for "discrimination" but I'd invite any critics to visit a field where they just decide to set up!
buttnuggetmaster@reddit
Of course
lucyuktv@reddit
Technically itās trade waste because a professional did the job so youāre not allowed to dispose of it yourself. This even applies to grass clippings a gardener creates on your property, theyāre not allowed to use your green bin.
As such, some may say no even if you ask.
flippertyflip@reddit
I've still got my old boiler fitted. It's in the loft so I'm guessing they couldn't be arsed to get it down. It's been decommissioned obviously.
Thing is someone built a fence round it out of copper pipes (to protect it I assume). Must be worth a few quid.
This was all done before I bought the place.
Acrobatic-Ad584@reddit
Isn't the scrap value of anything lriced into the job? You should have discussed first.
thevileswine@reddit
Given price for scrap copper is Ā£7.80 a kilo now it's hardly a surprise.
super_sammie@reddit
Accountant hereā¦. Recently had a full rewire and lots of copper removed.
Could I be fucked with taking it to a scrappy for a pittance??? No. Did the tradies factor it into their job? Noā¦. Itās a perk for them and realistically it would have sat in my shed till i binned it.
They didnāt use gold or platinumā¦
The lovely fuckers even hoovered up (with a hetty) an made good on holes I planned on fixing.
If you are paying for someone to carry out work it isnāt worth your time, petrol or effort to dispose of the scrap.
BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit
Customers of the UK:Ā
Do you sometimes feel like you donāt necessarily communicate with tradespeople as effectively as you ought to?Ā
*Sorry to come across like a bellend about this but did you explicitly tell them you had plans for the waste and miscellaneous items? A good Tradesman/woman will clean up after themselvesā¦Ā
genxerrr@reddit (OP)
Well I wasn't expecting them to whip it in the van without asking. I said I was going to sell that or I wanted to keep that for future projects. They'd mostly just mumble something something something.
If there's wood left over that I've paid for I want to keep it. The good tradies do clean up but the bad leave the rubbish and take what's valuable without asking.
Buzzinggg@reddit
1 month old account and history off posting some of the dumbest shit Iāve seen on Reddit the past weekā¦ š£
TheAngryBad@reddit
You should have been clear at the start.
I'll take away waste and offcuts at the end of a job, simply because IME people just don't want it. Usually I end up paying for disposal and I'll price the work accordingly.
If anyone asks for anything to be left behind I'm only too happy to do so - less work for me - but people have to ask or I'll just assume they don't want it.
Occasionally I'll ask if someone wants to keep specific offcuts or whatever, 99% of the time the answer is no.
BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit
Precisely what happened?Ā
Be clear and concise.Ā
Did you provide the materials or did they supply them as part of the overall service?Ā
If you didnāt provide explicitly supply them yourself, as much it has clearly upset you, youāre mistaken in your expectation.Ā
Consistent_Umpire443@reddit
No i disagree you paid for the materials to do a certain job and you were happy with the price. If the job was done and by some chance there was somthing left over it doesnt belong to you your job has been done.
Goosepond01@reddit
I mean I'd assume that if they said they would take away the waste that if you asked for something to be kept it wouldn't be any issue.
BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit
It wouldnāt have been an issue.Ā
As has already been mentioned in the thread, the items were likely incorporated in to the quote, but if OP had stated their intentions this wouldnāt have been a problemā¦ The quote might have looked different because the costs and the profit would be different, but theyāre not going to try and gatekeep the itemsā¦Ā
In some cases customers are too vague in communication.Ā
yourshelves@reddit
I purchased a new EV wall charger and hired someone to install it on a free-issue basis. Once he was done, he put the old but still excellent condition and fully working one on the passenger seat of his van. I still canāt believe I had to politely say, āEr, thatās not scrap - itās going on eBay to help fund the new oneā. I consider that to have been poor form on his part.
Johnny_Vernacular@reddit
If you're rewiring a normal 3 bed house, how much would the scrap copper you pull out go for, out of interest?
mikolv2@reddit
I saw a video recently of a sparkie recycling all of the scrap cable they kept from the previous year's jobs. It came to just over Ā£500 quid. But they also had to strip the cable to bare copper and of course everything is double insulated so it's a pain.
Intelligent_Prize_12@reddit
And you will find that Ā£500 is not even worth your time when you add it all up. Stripping machine, storage, driving to the scrap yard. It's a waste of time.
hdhxuxufxufufiffif@reddit
According to google's AI, it would yield about Ā£80-200. That's 40-80kg of insulated cables, about half that weight of recovered copper, selling for Ā£6-8 once stripped.Ā
Johnny_Vernacular@reddit
Not to be sneezed at.
UKAOKyay@reddit
You need to take off the cost of labour, transportation and possibly storage, it's also a taxable income that needs to be declared.
NoExperience9717@reddit
Might not be taxed as would fall under the trade allowance. So unless you're doing some other trade somewhere you're probably OK for a few hundred.
UKAOKyay@reddit
You need to take off the cost of labour, transportation and possibly storage, it's also a taxable income that needs to be declared
throwpayrollaway@reddit
I weighed in mine striped and it was nowhere near that amount. Wasn't worth the effort of stripping it as I recall.
Upstairs_Yogurt_5208@reddit
I never used to ask but times have changed. In the last couple of years Iāve started asking if the client wants the scrap themselves or if can I take it. Most of the time they tell me to take it but occasionally they have kept it.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
This is the moral thing to do. You are a proper Tradesman. Having respect for peopleās property goes a long way.
Upstairs_Yogurt_5208@reddit
Thatās the thing, it is their property. A copper cylinder is worth quite a bit nowadays and it would be a bit cheeky of me to just assume I can take it. Itās usually old men that tell me they want to keep the scrap themselves and I donāt have any issues with that. Some people say that scrap goes towards my price of a job but Iāve always looked at it as a perk of the job. I price my work accordingly so I donāt have to rely on scrap to make a living. Plus you have to declare any money from scrap nowadays so thereās not as much incentive as back in the day.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
You are %100 correct. For that reason alone and simply asking I would have given you my copper cylinder as a thanks. We had one whipped out of and old house that we asked to keep as it was going towards helping renovate. Every little helps and we were living in the mess at the time but it was āno, no itās ours to take mate. Sorry but itās in the van now Iām not getting it back out. Weāll dispose of it for youā couldnāt be bothered continuing an argument in an already stressful living situation.
Upstairs_Yogurt_5208@reddit
People like that spend their lives constantly looking for their next job. I get plenty of work because I charge a fair price, I do a good job, and Iām respectful of my clients. I donāt advertise because I get all of my work through recommendations. I started out with my dad and he taught me that being greedy gets you nowhere in the long run. Those greedy bastards took your cylinder but they never got any more work from you.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
Exactly!
Intelligent_Prize_12@reddit
The scrap cable was probably worth about Ā£24. It's barely worth your time taking the stuff in.
JustUseDuckTape@reddit
Any decent tradesperson should be carting away the waste, or being very clear up front that they won't be. That's not to say you aren't entitled to keep it if you ask, but the assumption is going to be that you want everything loose gotten rid of.
This is the only one that gives me pause, but it really depends what you mean by paying for them:
Short-Shopping3197@reddit
Most quotes will have a standard āremoval of wasteā point on the labour breakdown. Itās so standard however that I think itās usually just assumed. Technically you still own scrap removed during the work but 99% of the time people want waste removed as part of the job, Iād definitely think Iād have to ask the tradesman if I wanted to keep leftover material.
Goosepond01@reddit
Yeah but I would assume that "removal of waste" is less of a "I must be taking everything" and more "I am prepared to take everything"
Short-Shopping3197@reddit
A contract goes two ways, if youāve agreed to that then they can enforce it as much as you can.
JustUseDuckTape@reddit
Depends how you define "waste". I don't think you'd get very far claiming entitlement to a load of wiring or copper pipes that the customer has specifically asked to keep - it's hardly waste if they want them. Though it is an excellent defence to claims after the fact.
audigex@reddit
Removing waste is generally assumed to be part of any trades job unless specified otherwise. Most customers would be more annoyed at them leaving pipes behind
But it's your property and if you specify that you'd like them to leave anything then they should (well, legally must) leave it
The builder taking left over materials is a bit different, they shouldn't be taking that without asking
Diplomatic_Gunboats@reddit
Depends. Trash and semi-used bits? Yeah. Unused materials (e.g. bricks, tiles etc) I have always been asked if I want to keep them as spares.
Copper pipes and rads now.... only had a full replacement once and they just dumped them in the skip. Rag and bone man was round next day and grabbed them.
mrsjg90@reddit
As an electrician; I have it in my quote that waste disposal is on them and itāll be left on site. Canāt be arsed taking a few bags full of dirty, old loft wiring to the scrap man, I make enough on the job.
Jacktheforkie@reddit
Generally yes they will take away any waste, but you have the right to ask for them to leave it behind
mikolv2@reddit
I'd expect a tradesman to dispose of all waste and most do. The same way that if I go to get tires changed on the car, they recycle them for me. If you wanted to keep them, why didn't you communicate that to them. I've done that in the past when I had plans to reuse some of the material they removed and it wasn't a problem.
Potential-Question-4@reddit
The vast majority of people want the waste clearing and would be annoyed if a worker left a mess after a job.Ā
If you want to keep it that is something you should mention.
_Cridders_@reddit
I put "Removal of all waste materials" in the quote, which includes scrap.Ā
But either way I'd say it's a given that they'll take it unless you ask.Ā
RhubarbSalty3588@reddit
Yes,I also put removal and disposal of all waste at the end of all estimates and quotes,this as a builder/roofer is a large expense. I recently lost out on a job for a return customer because her other quote was Ā£500 cheaper than me. Heās left approx 3 skips full of rubbish on her drive,Iāve been asked to go back and quote for removing and disposing of the waste.
NOFEETPLZXOXO@reddit
Look her dead in the face and quote Ā£600.Ā
_Cridders_@reddit
Haha If I ever have to correct someone else's work that undercut me I always make a point of charging more than the differenceĀ
zviiper@reddit
3 8 yard skips round where I live would be nearly a grand, and that's not including the effort of moving all the rubbish. I'd be thinking Ā£1500+.
_Cridders_@reddit
I can't stand it. I'm a gas engineer, and there's more and more things you're supposed to be doing on a boiler swap, but what that also means is there's a growing gap between me quoting doing what I'm supposed to, and someone else a few hundred cheaper but also not doing half the shit they're supposed to.
RhubarbSalty3588@reddit
Yes exactly this.
RobertTheSpruce@reddit
If you want to keep the waste, then you tell them you will keep the waste. But expect to be left with the empty packaging, broken plaster, wood offcuts and other assorted detritus as well as the metals.
Fickle-Watercress-37@reddit
All contracts we have with our customers state that all materials removed are property of the company once removed.
If you want the copper water tanks left, fine, but the quote will change to reflect the change in circumstances.
These things are factored into quotes, just like a mechanic changing a starter motor or catalytic converter. They will return it to the manufacturer/retailer for a small amount of cash.
Souldestroyer_Reborn@reddit
Yes. Perk of the job.
Otherwise you can buy all the materials yourself, and get someone else to do the job you need done.
rockdecasba@reddit
Sometimes we get people asking us for the scrap, I tell them sure but I don't even bother nicking it for myself so I wouldn't waste your time driving to scrap merchants with it either. Unless it's a lot of something precious it really isn't worth itĀ
WonkyRodent@reddit
This is likely factored into the price. You can ask them to leave stuff, but the price may increase.
Namiweso@reddit
In reality no, itās because itās always been done that way. No oneās factoring in all that into their price. Theyāll have a price and if the homeowner decides they want to keep it, theyāll increase it.
The builder was a bit naughty though - paid for items are separate to things removed
BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit
Anybody with any sense is factoring every single cost and room for profit in to each job they carry out.Ā
My heart goes out to anybody that isnāt operating that way, frankly.Ā
Effective communication from the customer around exactly what they expect is just as important as it is the other way around.Ā
Namiweso@reddit
Most trades Iāve dealt with are very old fashioned and do things as theyāve always done it. Obviously the more commercial you go, the more it goes the way youāve said. Based on ops experience though, weāre not talking about people who are actually being professional.
Effective communication is key, but irrelevant when weāre talking about whether cost is factored in. Itās how you confirm whether itās factored in or not, but itās often not how many trades operate. They will just take stuff
BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit
I also work in the trades and communication works both ways.Ā
Thereās no city and guilds in mind readingā¦ Effective dialogue is key across the whole sector regardless of the size of the business or the job in hand.Ā
robhaswell@reddit
Removal of waste is a cost and should always be addressed in the contract.
Figgzyvan@reddit
My brother was a roofer. If he was keeping the slates to sell he would be careful removing and stacking them. The price would reflect his ābonusā. You want them he would not be so careful and you may not have the contacts to sell them. Price goes up.
Isgortio@reddit
You've had tradespeople that take the rubbish away with them? I always get left with it because they don't want to pay for trades disposal :(
jimmyfuci@reddit
We have a rule on site, if you strip it out, you keep it unless foreman says otherwise
Wise-Pay-8993@reddit
Bricklayer here, we usually have a few bricks and blocks left over after finishing the build. I just tell the client to keep the bricks as they can come in handy if having to replace a brick or few. With the blocks again you can keep it or i can take them. In our trade there's nothing really of value to keep. But the thing with the sparky and plumbers is they sell the copper which has money in it.
the-holy-one23@reddit
Unless you ask otherwise, I'm taking it with me because you'll moan that I've not cleaned up...
skelly890@reddit
How about you take the copper and the rubble and weāll call it quits?
Consistent_Umpire443@reddit
That's pretty standard
NoChanceItsHer@reddit
When I get quotes I usually say they can just leave all the crap out the back and I'll sort it later - it's free to dump rubble, asbestos etc these days. They have to pay to get rid of it. I can chuck it in the car like I do recycling and just take it to the dump myself... shrug,. if it saves me a few hundred on the job. My Mother, however, is just going to moan about any mess you left behind.
Same for making good. You're a sparky, you connect the wires n stuff, I'll chase the wall for you and fill it in after, no probs.
When I'm in another room and the old immersion heater disappears within 20 mins of it being taken out, I mean I'd have liked you to ask if I'm gonna scrap that myself or what? I asked them to please get it back out the van. Thought I'd have 40 quid for it... Ā£250 later from the tank and a few other copper pipes I'd taken out was nice. They were an ECO4 job, not something I paid, and I totally get most customers would be like why tf would I want a 1.5m copper tank left behind - get rid of it for me. Actually by selling that I got paid Ā£250 to have a boiler, rads and internal wall insulation installed when I think about it....
TL;DR just ask, right?
Consistent_Umpire443@reddit
Absolutely i done a job where an old part of the building was ripped down and we got rid of all the old brick/wood/insulation and there was some lead on the job. The customer had the cheek to ask us to put all the lead to the side and he will deal with it. We told him you either deal with all the waste or none of it we are not filtering through it for you.
JudgeDredd200@reddit
I always make sure what's in the contract of works youve arranged. If you want to keep the waste materials then its in the contract and you have all the rubbish. If you only want the valuable waste material then the quote will be adjusted so I recoop losing the scrap value which I use to lower my quotes to get more work.
If the builder is supplying materials then he has estimated how much the build needs and thats what you pay for. All leftovers are the builders, you paid for 100 bricks to build a wall but the pack is 400 bricks, The builder paid for the extra so he keeps that. If you want all the extras then the customer supplies materials and buys as much as they want then the builder uses what's needed and leaves the rest.
Contracts are always made in writing so everyone has proof of what's agreed to keep customers happy and keep builders safe from customers who dont understand why things are happening how they are
ashyboi5000@reddit
Honestly with new rules (now a few years old) probably not worth it to take to scrappies. You may get enough for a takeaway as a takeaway away to treat yourself as part of the inconvenience.
Extras and left overs I would be frustrated with, the spark here did that. Skipped bits and pieces not used.
PerfectEmphasis9016@reddit
I personally think they should ask. Iāve had a lot of trades in and out after fully renovating two different properties over the years and no matter how much the trades on here will get defensive and say they donāt do it, I have found they take the scrap worth something without asking but happy to leave quite a bit of mess behind and boxes of screws, bits of plaster and broken tools that they donāt need for you to dispose of.
JeffSergeant@reddit
As a regular customer of tradespeople, I assume they're taking the old stuff with them when they leave to dispose of it as they see fit; if they weren't planning to, I'd expect them to tell me up front that I will need to arrange disposal.
Normally they arrange a skip hire, If I asked to keep something, they would have no right to refuse.
Aggressive_Cream_188@reddit
Yes. It's priced in as waste removal. I wouldn't expect customers to want to keep it.
If I take it after the job it's one price, normally more expensive to call someone out-as you do t need a waste license to take your own work waste away, but do to take others( I may be wrong if the rules have changed recently-im not working that much these, days)
Ok-Cold3937@reddit
If you wanted to keep it Iād also leave the bags of rubble and plaster where the wall has been chased out.Ā
Ok-Cold3937@reddit
Iād say 90% of people would be unhappy if the spark left a big pile of cable for them to shift. Plus itās a bit of a bonus bearing in mind no sick/holiday pay.Ā
BrightPomelo@reddit
Did they tidy up well? If so, doubt you have a case. if they left a mess and only took the valuable scrap, you might have.
Electricbell20@reddit
When it's valuable they take it, when it isn't they leave it.
Hot-Satisfaction19@reddit
heard this is standard practice. they will clear away everything and any money made from selling scrap metal etc offsets any fees they incur from disposing of the waste. i think i'd like to be told one way or the other before it all disappears though.
my-comp-tips@reddit
Remember I had a new boiler fitted, and the engineer left the old boiler outside my house. Is that normal practice? I asked if he could take it, and got quite annoyed with me at the time.Ā
Happy_Chief@reddit
You'd sell it for scrap, what do you think the trades will do?
Thats factored into the price which they can recoup. If you ask at the time they quote, fine, but it'll be a more expensive quote.
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