Why aren't US airlines a meritocracy for pilots?
Posted by Dangerous-Extreme257@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 47 comments
Having been a CFI in the US with lots of friends flying in the airlines and military, I believe the US has some of the best pilots in the world available for flying commercially. However, as I was building time as a CFI for the airlines I realized airlines don't seem to reward superior airmanship. Rather, they reward seniority. It's the pilot who has been with the airline the longest who get the best selection of routes, schedules and aircraft, not the best pilot. A former Blue Angel pilot gets the same treatment by the airline as a civilian pilot who struggled their way through a Part 61 school
Why haven't airlines adopted a meritocracy approach for their pilots, like most other industries? Most of corporate America rewards high performance--promotions, bonus, titles are given out to the best performers, not just the guy who has been with the company the longest.
We clearly still need good airmanship in the airlines, not just procedure following, as demonstrated by all of 2025. Imagine if pilots got promoted by doing the best in landing competitions, or demonstration of superior manual control of their aircraft, not just being with the company longer than the next guy. I imagine we'd have a more competitive pilot pool at least, which I think would improve safety and even make it more fun for airline guys as well.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
Read 'Fate is the Hunter' and you'll learn that in the old days, the superior pilots were the ones that did not die on the job, so Seniority = Superior_Airmanship.
For an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_N._Buck
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
It's far safer pilots aren't trying to beat other pilots. My second regional published all captains fuel figures for a month and union shut that down real fast. Never forget safety is #1.
disfannj@reddit
please let the cfi tell us how to be better at our jobs.
whydidilose@reddit
Whoever gets the most new credit card signups should be at the top of the ladder!
Airlines should release customer satisfaction surveys to all passengers post-flight. Highest scores are highest up on the ladder!
Anytime you call out sick you get moved to the bottom of the ladder!
Captains and FOs should bid against each other - whoever bids the lowest rate per line gets the line!
Once a year the FAA halts all airline travel. Every captain and FO are entered into a melee brawl (for their respective airline). Winner is highest on ladder and first out is lowest on ladder!
I’ll have more great ideas soon!
redditburner_5000@reddit
They don't want good pilots. They want good procedure experts. And they'll pay for that skill.
You can be the best pilot in the world, but if you can't play well with others, have a crap personality, and/or are just incapable of/unable to learn and then do procedures reliably then what good are you to an airline? There are a lot of airline pilots who aren't good at actually flying planes. They're good airline pilots, but they're a public menace in the left seat of a light twin.
Also, the pilots don't want a meritocracy. They have a good thing going right now. Merit would mean actually performing to business metrics and that's more work, and it introduces pressure to take risks to achieve business goals. As a member of the flying public, I don't want that.
Fun_Supermarket1235@reddit
Because the job we do at the airlines has no way to determine superior airmanship. We never try to operate near the limit or push any boundaries. We always pick the least risky option and trend toward the middle. This creates a bunch of people who will never stand out unless something extraordinary happens out of our control
usmcmech@reddit
I fly aerobatics with an American wide body captain.
Guess how often he needs to display his superior upset recovery skills in his day job?
swakid8@reddit
Alright OP, set the story straight otherwise this post will be removed for trolling. Are you a CFi or Private Pilot?
Dangerous-Extreme257@reddit (OP)
i am a former CFII, flying as a private pilot now (not commerically) but still have my commercial license
swakid8@reddit
Thanks OP, your post hastily been reinstated !
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
Because otherwise you’d have pilots who are willing to fly tired, fly broken airplanes, and otherwise compromise safety in order to make management like them so they can get better aircraft/trips/basing. A purely seniority based takes away that incentive.
hitchhiketoantarctic@reddit
So much this.
It was a “meritocracy” and magically airlines deemed meritorious things like flying sick, fatigued, flying broken planes, into unsafe weather conditions.
It’s only after unions put an end to that practice with the seniority system that aviation started getting safer leading into WW2 and beyond.
A_Squid_A_Dog@reddit
Is there a book or somesuch that digs more into this?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Flying the Line Vol 1 and 2.
A_Squid_A_Dog@reddit
Thank you
findquasar@reddit
The supposed “meritocracy” is very far from that. Ever heard of the term “failing upwards?”
The “meritocracy” you describe is very much a political system, not skills-based.
How do you propose a pilot is evaluated for “superior airmanship?”
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Failing upwards into the C-suite!
HungryDust@reddit
I think once you start introducing “competitions” you introduce unnecessary risk that would make everything more dangerous.
chuckop@reddit
A former Blue Angels pilot may or may not make for a great airline pilot.
usmcmech@reddit
Popcorn in the microwave.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
OP today:
Op 5 days ago:
swakid8@reddit
Going to get OP to clarify…
haveanairforceday@reddit
Theres different ways of measuring merit.
By getting hired at the airline you have (theoretically) shown that you have merit as an airman. Just like by making it through military pilot training shows you have the reiquired merit as an airman. Once youve made it to a unit/airline we need more than just airmanship. We need leadership and experience, shown by your time in the role. You wont make unit commander or airline captain without experience. The most shit hot butter bar pilot wont be trusted with much outside of flying because thats all they have experience with
The Blue Angels is not analogous to regular airline pilots. They are more like a demo team or test pilots. In the military, being on a demo team (blue angels) or a test pilot will not automatically fast track you to leadership. It can actually hinder your career because you focus solely on airmanship when higher ranks really need a broad experience including lots of leadership
FlowerGeneral2576@reddit
You’re suggesting major US airlines do landing competitions to see who’s the best?
Several-Village5814@reddit
Can't even take OP seriously
Esoteric_Prurience@reddit
Terrible idea. That said - I would quite happily sit and watch a bunch of cowboys try and short-field heavy metal on a grass strip on a Sunday afternoon.
prex10@reddit
Define "superior airmanship" lol
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Landing exactly on the 1000 footers at -3 fpm. Anyone who can't do this flies the Orlando shuttle for Q2. Anyone who can gets pick of 787 routes.
Potential-Elephant73@reddit
Seniority privilege is usually the work of unions.
Zero_Abides@reddit
You have to be able to say “no” to your boss without fear of consequence.
Scary_Revolution3998@reddit
How do you measure this exactly? In theory bad pilots get weeded out during training so everyone left has met the standard.
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
OP is beyond ignorant.
willreadforbooks@reddit
It’s adorable you think corporate America rewards meritocracy. It is, and has always been, who do the managers/leaders like the most, and that does not always equate with “best,” which is a nebulous concept at most.
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
>Why haven't airlines adopted a meritocracy approach for their pilots
What would that even look like? If you pass the training you pass the training. What does background matter?
>Most of corporate America rewards high performance--promotions, bonus, titles are given out to the best performers
So are you gonna reward, like a really smooth landing? Or will it just turn into rewarding hours flown for the airline? (in which case, fuck that).
>as demonstrated by all of 2025. Imagine if pilots got promoted by doing the best in landing competitions, or demonstration of superior manual control of their aircraft
What does any of that prove?
>I imagine we'd have a more competitive pilot pool at least, which I think would improve safety and even make it more fun for airline guys as well.
This is the most ignorant and insulting part. You don’t understand the professional pilots have an intrinsic desire to be good at their jobs, and to not make mistakes.
Esoteric_Prurience@reddit
At the airlines the training is so standardised, and the requirements for a high quality of airmanship is such that at that level the difference between those two pilots (assuming both are hired and working at the same airline) are marginal at best.
Airmanship - insofar as physically handling the aircraft, is great when you're messing around in a Cub on a field - but not the best judge of a superior airline pilot. Decision making, systems knowledge and management, and crew management would be a far more accurate set of criteria in which to judge.
SecureAsk8297@reddit
You don't need airmanship to turn on the autopilot
swakid8@reddit
How do you suggest someone has superior airman over another… How is that going to be determined?
saxmanB737@reddit
How do you objectively decide who is a superior airman over another? How well you fly an instrument approach? How good your landings are? How likable to your coworkers? Who gets to make that determination?
urykk@reddit
Please explain how 'a better pilot' would have helped in DCA or LGA?
Encouraging pilots to demonstrate how much better they are than others- with passengers in the back - doesn't scream safety to me.
Several-Village5814@reddit
Lol. Because how do you even quantify these things? Superior hand flying skills flying a 777?
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
There's more to being a good airline pilot than landing on the spot and keeping altitude within +/- 5ft.
Even outside of USA, where some airlines promote people on merit rather than their seniority number, they look at pilot performance more holistically, not just stick and rudder skills.
The answer to your questions is unions. Senior people had to go through a lot of crap to get where they are now, even if by just purely turning the calendar pages, and they're unlikely ever to even remotely consider, let alone vote for a more egaliterian system.
OnigiriEnthusiast@reddit
Because if they did, I'd be #1 and every airline would be vying for me and all the other airmen would be jelaous. Duh
huertamatt@reddit
Because seniority is the only objectively fair way to do those things. You’re not getting paid to be a hot shot, you are getting paid to follow the procedures. Nobody cares if you can land the airplane the best, they care that you can land the airplane safely within the procedures set forth by the company. If that’s a greaser, great. If it’s not a greaser? Also great.
Please don’t try and make being a pilot more like the rest of corporate America, that’s one of the most attractive things about being a pilot is that we don’t have to put up with corporate America bullshit.
Phycosphere@reddit
Can you name a meritocracy industry that you would like to emulate?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Everyone is expected to perform to the same level at the airlines. Follow regulations and procedure and operate the aircraft within limits. This isn't the military. It's not a corporate flight department. It's not the blue angels. It's a 100,000 person company with 18,000 pilots.
What is your definition of an airline pilot with "superior airmanship or performance" from one line pilot to the next? Now you're getting into office politics. Meritocracy isn't a thing when everyone is equal.
So how do we reward pilots? Longevity...aka, seniority.
Flavor_Nukes@reddit
Unions.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Having been a CFI in the US with lots of friends flying in the airlines and military, I believe the US has some of the best pilots in the world available for flying commercially. However, as I was building time as a CFI for the airlines I realized airlines don't seem to reward superior airmanship. Rather, they reward seniority. It's the pilot who has been with the airline the longest who get the best selection of routes, schedules and aircraft, not the best pilot. A former Blue Angel pilot gets the same treatment by the airline as a civilian pilot who struggled their way through a Part 61 school
Why haven't airlines adopted a meritocracy approach for their pilots, like most other industries? Most of corporate America rewards high performance--promotions, bonus, titles are given out to the best performers, not just the guy who has been with the company the longest.
We clearly still need good airmanship in the airlines, not just procedure following, as demonstrated by all of 2025. Imagine if pilots got promoted by doing the best in landing competitions, or demonstration of superior manual control of their aircraft, not just being with the company longer than the next guy. I imagine we'd have a more competitive pilot pool at least, which I think would improve safety and even make it more fun for airline guys as well.
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