This does blow my mind
Posted by murrmc@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 312 comments
I knew Ryanair were successful but never imagined they’d be 3rd largest market cap in the world?!?
Dragonogard549@reddit
They took the budget model to the next level. Theyre so incredibly influential and good at what they do, instead of opening routes to fulfil existing demand, they do the opposite, open a route to somewhere no one cares about, and create demand out of thin air, purely because its possible to get 2000km across the continent, for £14.99
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Wrong. Deregulation is the reason that changed, not (just) Ryanair.
In fact, since the 2000s, Ryanair has done immense damage to airline competition in some markets, such as Ireland.
joesnopes@reddit
Ireland is an airline market?
YoIronFistBro@reddit
What sort of question is that lmao. Of course Ireland has an aviation market, just as almost all countries do!
joesnopes@reddit
Well, TIL!
I guess that the Irish market is at the top of Mike O'Leary's todo list - as the boss of - checks discussion topic - the world's third largest airline.
LuckyFlyer0_0@reddit
Wow I had no idea American isn't Top 5 or so
Matuteg@reddit
American has made so many bad decisions that it can only go up from here lol
BigDiesel07@reddit
May you please expand on what bad decisions they have made?
DullMind2023@reddit
For one, they got rid of their 757, 767 and A330 fleet during the pandemic betting that international air travel would stay depressed for a long time. It didn’t. Now they are losing customers and money to Delta and United who did not slash their fleets.
They also angered travel agents with some ill-conceived policies; other Redditors who better understand that episode will have to provide more insight.
Less-Tax5637@reddit
Also notable that their pivot to NDC for agents could have been okay. NDCs in general can be beneficial to travel agents and the extra metadata they provide can be genuinely helpful. Other carriers have found success with them.
But AA handled it like assholes and have now sworn off the tech entirely. Dumbass airline.
tx_queer@reddit
Here is a good overview. https://youtu.be/3_V6HJNDjDs?si=n34oFNrOlB2KOM_f
To be clear, they probably didnt feel like bad decisions at the time, but were bad decisions in retrospect. For example, they retired a bunch of their long haul fleet during covid. This made sense. The way covid was looking, international travel wasn't really expected to come back to normal for years or decades. Entire countries were closed. And the planes were pretty far into their service life and it wouldn't make sense to bring them back from long term storage just to fly for a year or two. And they had already ordered new planes that would surely arrive before travel demand was back to normal.
But demand for long haul skyrocketed. Everybody was itching to go somewhere. But american had no planes and couldn't make money off the demand.
It looks like a bad decision now. But if covid closures would have stuck around longer it would have looked like a genius decision.
The video has a few more examples.
waldo-jeffers-68@reddit
A buddy of mine just left his corporate job at AA in part because of that, he was tired about working at a company that took no risks
YoIronFistBro@reddit
They simplified their fleet before they were ready to do so.
lil_layne@reddit
American has the largest fleet size in the world and most passengers carried but they struggle to bas as profitable as Delta and United thus their market cap is much smaller.
27803@reddit
I hate flying American , I’d rather fly Frontier on most domestic legs, their cabin crew are always so bitter , it must be a terrible place to work
soulscratch@reddit
I don't disagree about American but Frontier is hot garbage
27803@reddit
I can complain about their hard product but I’ve never had a flight crew on either Spirit or Frontier , I used to fly a bunch to help a family member out with business and they’d get me Domestic first class tickets and it was always 50/50 whether or not the crew were bitter and angry
soulscratch@reddit
The first Frontier flight I ever got on was to commute home, there was maintenance at the gate post boarding and we were delayed by an hour and a half or so. Not a single PA made by the crew, no idea about the nature or severity. No offer of egress, no ETA on the expected fix, not even the acknowledgement that maintenance was even on board.
Combine that with their hard product and the absolute zoo that their boarding process combined with their clientele creates at the gate and it's a hard pass from me.
I've only had good experiences with Spirit.
Exact_Package_7264@reddit
true. American Airlines is atrocious
SelectiveEmpath@reddit
Just flew AA LAX-SYD. Horrible experience honestly. Staff were so rude, food sucked, seat in front of me was halfway down my throat, plane was late. Shan’t be using them again.
biden_backshots@reddit
American is horrible. The flagship first lounge in LAX served the most revolting pig slop I’ve ever seen, sushi that made me literally gag in my mouth, the product is extremely dated as you mentioned, and typically flights are more expensive at least out of their hubs relative to other carriers. Miss me with AA.
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
American is the ultimate step over a dollar to make a dime company. Watching it run is magical.
jubbing@reddit
Pretty sure United now have a bigger fleet than United.
tx_queer@reddit
Im too lazy to dig through the latest quarterly reports but Wikipedia has united at 1086 and American at 1017. But American eagle has 544 while united express only has 428.
So they may or may not have the largest fleet depending on how you measure.
all_worcestershire@reddit
Damn didn’t know American Eagle went from jeans to aviation.
MetikMas@reddit
American also wholly owns three regionals while all the United Express carriers are contractors.
tx_queer@reddit
Did not know that. Thanks for the knowledge
pdxraised92@reddit
they lose money flying planes, they only make up the difference with credit card revenue, no joke
Bloated_Plaid@reddit
American Airlines is more of a bank rather than an airline. Their loyalty program is worth more than the entire company…
flume@reddit
And their growth potential is extremely limited compared to a company like IndiGo
mfknbeerdrinkr@reddit
AA is carrying so much debt it tanks their market cap. Their enterprise value is almost as high as Delta and United’s which is crazy.
biden_backshots@reddit
Means stock will go crazy if they ever figure it out
Conor_J_Sweeney@reddit
American has been in decline for almost my entire life.
Badrear@reddit
It’s like they’re really trying to reflect our country.
biden_backshots@reddit
top 1% commenter
dawtips@reddit
It feels like practically yesterday they filed for bankruptcy
dilemmaprisoner@reddit
I'd guess many of them are greatly affected right now by if they pre-bought huge fuel orders.
woshiyigedineng@reddit
AA is not as competitive as DL and UA. Its international routes are poor asf, and its route planning is much worse. The only thing valuable is their miles, actually the only thing that it can be the best among the mag 3. If I need to choose which of the 3 will go bankruptcy or be merged first then it'll be AA without doubt.
Omniwar@reddit
It was reported earlier this week that UA leadership has pitched a merger with AA to the US gov. I don't see it happening, at least in the next decade. UA+B6 seems inevitable though.
Previous_Knowledge91@reddit
United is still carrying $30 billion dollars worth of debt, if they purchased JetBlue they would add JetBlue's $9.4 billion dollars worth of debt. United's debt is still way above their pre-covid. Not all mergers are created equal and United at $39.4 billion dollars in debt if they were to purchase JetBlue, if that happen then they would have to cut a lot of unprofitable flying in JetBlue's network but also in United's network which could open the door for Delta (or other competitors). The only reason United wants JetBlue is for access to JFK but the DOT would force United to divest either at JFK or EWR even though EWR isn't slot controlled. United will either have to pay a handsome premium to strip out JetBlue's best assets or take on that debt. UA has massive capex over the next few years.
woshiyigedineng@reddit
Nah I think UA is kidding. There is no way US gov approves this.
Badrear@reddit
With big enough bribes to the right people, anything is possible.
theawkwardpadawan@reddit
Aa has a shitton of debt.
YKRed@reddit
Insane amount of debt
lucathecontemplator@reddit
I keep saying this but Ryanair is the best airline in the world. Without them many people wouldn’t be able to afford to fly
MysteriousUse6406@reddit
They wrecked travel
What was economy is now business class etc
lucathecontemplator@reddit
Thats just not true, unless you’re talking about economy in the 60s Ryanair wasn’t around then, you can blame the Boeing 747 for that
fenuxjde@reddit
Which is funny because I remember reading a write up back in like 2012 where, if you take all the ways they nickel and dime customers, they usually come within about 5% of the price of a competitor's ticket.
Billgant@reddit
Yeah but, some people in Europe wanna flight from one city to another and sometimes it’s as low as €100 if you don’t have any luggage or carry-ons.
My cousin went to Paris for three days on a work trip, and his brother flew from Munich to Paris just to see him for a couple of hours, and flew right back. €100 on Ryan Air.
ephesusa@reddit
i flied for 3 euros couple of times
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Found the Irish person
Billgant@reddit
Faith and begorrah
Quagers@reddit
I flew from London to Italy for £35 last year.
jatawis@reddit
I did Helsinki to Kaunas for 4 € in 2022.
biden_backshots@reddit
That is actually crazy when you think about it
cev2002@reddit
£17.98 return is my record. Luton to Pristina
RealDonDenito@reddit
9€ from southern Germany to southern Italy here - my one and only Ryanair flight :D
Sneeuwjacht@reddit
€15 return Eindhoven-Valletta during some Cyber Monday discount deal. The first leg was €5, still don't really understand how that worked.
murrmc@reddit (OP)
Family of 3 return to Italy under £100 - new routes many many years ago.
BigBlueMountainStar@reddit
A few years ago my return flights between France and the UK were £19.98 in total.
52-61-64-75@reddit
I flew return from Ireland to Cyprus for 80 euro without a bag
satellite779@reddit
It can be as low as 30eur for a 1400 mile flight. I actually flew on such a flight (BCN-TFS). But, it was a Monday 5:50am flight. I did pay for exit row and one carry on bag so it was 100eur for the two of us.
--Blaise--@reddit
Budapest - Milan can be as low as 40€, round trip
Meghabhedi@reddit
This argument has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. If you need a bunch of extras you probably shouldn't fly budget airlines. If you don't, you can't beat the prices that budget airlines offer.
fenuxjde@reddit
So I lived in Eastern Europe for years, and my eastern European friends were always super economical, for obvious reasons.
We were going to go to Prague.
At that time, Ryanair didn't fly to the main Prague airport, it flew to another smaller distant airport, one that didn't offer the same public transport for getting to the city center.
Not only did we lose a grand total of about 6 hours out of our weekend trip due to the slower, less frequent public transport available, they had to pay to check bags and print boarding passes. They saved ten euros.
I would have happily paid the extra ten euros for an extra half day in Prague.
Meghabhedi@reddit
I've never checked bags or printed a boarding pass while flying a budget airline. If I wanted to do those things I wouldn't fly budget. And in my experience, I've been able to get flights between the same airports for far cheaper flying budget vs. standard carriers. And I've flown budget carriers plenty of times (admittedly never Ryanair).
gbish@reddit
I’ve managed to get BA/SAS/Lufthansa etc flights cheaper than Ryanair ones to the same destinations before. They definitely benefit from people assuming they are always cheaper and not checking other airlines out.
But for the most part Ryanair are cheaper, more frequent and have a better m chance of being on time. I’ve flown around Europe for next to nothing with them, had flights 1000km cheaper than a beer at the airport
YoIronFistBro@reddit
You mean Irish people?
Ok-Sandwich-364@reddit
Yeah it’s easy to get lured in by the cheap initial fare.
If you’re adding cabin bags or checked in luggage it can often end up being very close to a competitor price wise. I need to fly from Belfast to Manchester later this year and Ryanair with the extra cabin bag was about £95 return. Aer Lingus was £105 but they include a 10kg checked bag as standard, fly from the city airport (much nicer airport than our other one) and they use smaller ATR aircraft so max 70 passengers, no middle seat and generally a lot less chaotic than a typical Ryanair flight.
mrlinkwii@reddit
most people using ryanair arent tho , they want a cheap flight to X and most will scarafise bringing a checked luggage or more cabin bags
vaska00762@reddit
I had this similar situation a couple years ago.
Ryanair, flying from Dublin to Berlin-Brandenburg would often easily be €260 once you include a 20kg checked bag, and with a 6:45am flight, means getting to the airport at a miserable hour in the morning.
In 2024, I took a Lufthansa flight from Belfast City, via Frankfurt to Berlin-Brandenburg. It was £260 return. It also left in the afternoon, and I had 1h15 to change planes in Frankfurt, but passport control had no queues, and the e-gate let me through in seconds, and security was rapid also. Longest thing was the bus from the remote apron position to the terminal.
Aer Lingus was €330 from Dublin with the same luggage allowance, and considering an airport hotel at Dublin, it'd probably easily go beyond €500 to be out of Dublin first thing in the morning.
The last time I took a budget airline, it was easyJet, and because they don't really do Multi-City, I had to come back through KLM, which was only about £20 more on the way back then on the way out with easyJet, with the same luggage allowance. Plus, KLM has free snacks and drinks, including wine and beer.
Canofmeat@reddit
Of course it’s often due to their pricing that people fly with them, but Ryanair offers point to point only whereas the European Flag Carriers almost exclusively fly only hub and spoke. So if you’re outside of your flag carrier’s single hub, it’s often substantially more convenient to fly Ryanair.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
That, and unlike in the US where regional airports typically have service to nearby hubs with something like a CRJ or an Embraer, many secondary and tertiary airports in Europe's only have P2P/LCC flights, with little or no connevtivity to legacy hubs.
Milton__Obote@reddit
Yep, they were the only ones offering a nonstop trieste to krakow that I took
TIA_q@reddit
Yeah Ryanair gets hate but they have really boiled (short-haul) flying down to exactly what the people want: low low prices.
People romanticise air travel but most people just want a bus with wings.
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
Kind of. American airlines are finding nearly the opposite. Going heavy into the premium / business segment and improved experience.
Europe is definitely a different market, and there are very different consumer segments out there.
Maligetzus@reddit
yeah europeans are much more pragmatic, we want to see people and sip our espressos in the spanish sun not impress our work colleagues
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
I wouldn't say it's really that.
It's more that...
Americans are wealthier and make way more money than Europeans, and have proven willing to spend some of that money on more comfortable travel... Sometimes to Europe where your lot rails at their presence on your beaches sipping cocktails as they casually outspend Europeans (in a tourism market that is increasingly pricing Europeans out) and marvel at the slow moving, quaint, parochial lifestyle.
American businesses are much more pragmatic and efficient than their European counterparts (hence higher incomes) and so are more likely to put their employees in premium classes so they can be more productive.
MindingMyMindfulness@reddit
Precisely. People seem to confuse intercontinental and short haul flights. If I'm flying London to Rome, I'm flying Ryan. Also some large airlines, like BA suck.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Weirdly enough, so do certain airlines.
Just look at the hard and soft product BA offers on their flights to North Africa and the Levant...
AmbidextrousRex@reddit
I think where they go wrong is by trying to trick people into extra fees. Like making the interface counterintuitive to book hold bags for both legs of a return flight, in the hope that you'll forget to book on return and pay a fee. Or charging a fee for checking in at the airport (even if it's using the same self-service terminal you need to use to print bag tags for hold baggage).
They definitely aren't the only low-cost carrier to do it, but they seem to be best at it. In talking with people IRL they are definitely the carrier that comes up the most when sharing anecdotes about shady fees.
In comparison, I flew with Volotea a year ago, and our hold bag on return was about 500g overweight, so the self-service bag drop refused it. An attendant came over immediately and checked it in manually at no extra charge. I wish there was an airline that combined Ryanair's excellent network and efficiency with that kind of customer service.
Also, while it isn't something their passengers necessarily care about, Ryanair is quite brutish about unionization of cabin crew and ground staff. I think they treat their pilots OK since they don't really have a choice, but they squeeze their employees everywhere else they can.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Also, you have yhe cabin bag dimensions, which were very clearly set in way that a standard cabin bag would be too thick and therefore incur as massive penalty.
Ronxu@reddit
I want them to be as predatory as possible, so the inexperienced people are subsidizing my dirt cheap seat. The base price can't be as low if they're not making money elsewhere.
TheOlddan@reddit
Yep, I wouldn't want to fly with them for more than 2 or 3 hours but other than that you just accept them for what they are, a flying bus that's as cheap as possible as long as you play by the rules.
SweetVarys@reddit
Without checking I’d assume almost all their flights are within the four hour window
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Mostly, but the number of mid-haul routes isn't negligible, especially when the Canary Islands are a place that exists.
berzini@reddit
Of course. They fly within Europe and a little to North Africa and Middle East
P1xelHunter78@reddit
I’ve been saying this a lot. (Most) people just want to get where they’re going. They don’t care what color the seat is, what the boarding music is, the flavor (or availability of pretzels) they want a cheap seat and an on time flight. Airlines made this the market when deregulation happened. All these attempts to differentiate between each other is just window dressing.
nyuszy@reddit
Exactly, probably the longest routes are just around 4 hours, but the typical ones are around 2. On this distance there's literally zero benefit of traditional airlines for triple cost.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
There absolutely is, just not in Europe.
DigitalSheikh@reddit
But it seems like there’s also an opposing trend in the market as well - huge expansions in business class travel, people spending more on tickets, airlines spending lots of money to upgrade their luxury offerings. Maybe it’s more accurate to say that the airline market, like everything else, is K-shaped, there’s no room for a middle class anymore.
StartersOrders@reddit
In Europe, people don’t care about the short haul business product that much, because most of our flights are only a couple of hours or so.
Long haul however, that’s where the competition is really kicking off.
definitelyainoreally@reddit
short haul business is just b and e seats blocked off
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Anything up to the upper end of mid-haul, if BA is anything to go by*
YoIronFistBro@reddit
The thing is some European airlines" idea of "short haul" is ridiculous.
Having no IFE whatsoever and calling ULCC-tier economy with the middle seat blocked "business class" on a route like London-Paris is one thing.
Doing the same on 5+ hours sectors like London-Cairo is a different story altogether.
P1xelHunter78@reddit
Yeah, and I was also talking about shorter American domestic flights, so that tracks.
DigitalSheikh@reddit
That’s definitely true, good point
Hazmat_Human@reddit
Hey ive got a name for an airline. Well call it Airbus
flyermiles_dot_ca@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skybus_Airlines
Hazmat_Human@reddit
Well yes
kind_bros_hate_nazis@reddit
Stop being silly
Pimp_my_Pimp@reddit
The Greyhound of the Skies.....
vnprkhzhk@reddit
well, at least in buses, i dont need to fold my legs 3 times. and i am just 1,8m
kobrons@reddit
They also have quite their fair share of semi illegal practices.
--Blaise--@reddit
In Hungary, it's either them, Wizz Air or we're going by car lol
barstoolsam@reddit
So Ryanair or the car
maxipanda8321@reddit
Wizzair is by far better that ryanair, what do you even mean?
Purnceks@reddit
Why do you think so? To me Wizzair is just Ryanair but often a tiny bit less cheap and a
much more shit experience
maxipanda8321@reddit
How was it a much more shit experience? It s literally twice as good for a tiny bit more money. Bigger cabin baggage size, less buthurt employees, much better legroom, and a cabin that s not painted bright yellow and blue.
GrouchyCustomer6050@reddit
Wizzair is a horrible criminal airline. Terrible service with rude employees, along with straight up stealing your money.
maxipanda8321@reddit
How did they steal your money?
GrouchyCustomer6050@reddit
Well I booked a flight with them, tried to use their website to check in, the website wouldn’t work, and I got done for late check in. I know it sounds ridiculous but that’s what happened. I was met my rude staff when i tried to explain in Chopin airport. I vowed never to fly with them again
Purnceks@reddit
Could be worse, try checking in and they tell you theres no space cause they overbooked it so you’ll have to get a different flight
GrouchyCustomer6050@reddit
Sorry to hear that. That sounds right on brand for them 😬
HotIron223@reddit
Fully agree, always picked Wizz over Ryanair when given the chance, way better experience.
Purnceks@reddit
We have had very different experiences regarding employees I guess.
Kojetono@reddit
A320 is more comfortable than the 737
Wizz seats are slightly more comfortable (but that might be due to the A320's wider cabin)
And the biggest advantage: Wizzair flies to proper airports and not Ryanaerodromes in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with no connection to the city.
The actual product is basically the same for both.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Also, there's a clear difference attitude:
Ryanair believes they are too cheap to treat you well.
Wizz believes they are too cheap to treat you poorly.
Internal_Affect_2524@reddit
Ryanair fly to loads of the main airports now. 20 years ago your point was sound. I've had ups and downs with Ryanair. Big argument about a carry on bag once. I was wrong by the way but still felt butt hurt. Swore never again. Have many times since. They are the very definition of just grand in most instances. Anyway these online debates are always so stupid. The passenger numbers don't lie
Kojetono@reddit
But in many cases they still don't fly to the main/proper airport. And that was my personal experience with them.
The discussion is about the comfort/quality of service. But for ULCCs the main factor will always be cost. So passenger numbers are irrelevant to this specific discussion.
Internal_Affect_2524@reddit
I think they are grand then in terms of comfort. Slightly rubbish seat but fine. Staff grand. All the other stuff fine. Some of the fellow passengers on some destinations. Uuuurgggh.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Ryanair might be better if you're tall. That's about it.
RipCurl69Reddit@reddit
Yeah RYR used to do direct flights from my city in the UK to Budapest but have since stopped, we flew with them four times over two trips and all of them were great. Basic, but still great and as expected. We've now gotta go all the way to Heathrow and do British Airways instead lol
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Have you considered KLM?
YoIronFistBro@reddit
You do realise Ryanair isn't the only ULCC in the world, or even Europe, right?
Fabulous_Ad_5709@reddit
Yes!! I hate when people hate on budget airlines because they have sub par service. Like yeah that’s what I’m paying for lol.
For me the question is not if I fly budget or legacy, but often if I fly budget or just don’t fly at all. For me this is what allows me to fly as often as I do
Silentkindfromsauna@reddit
The thing is, even the subpar service at ryanair is not bad. Yes you don’t get free coffee but that’s not why I am flying anyways. It’s just stripped down of everything except getting people as cheaply as possible to the destination.
Fabulous_Ad_5709@reddit
I agree 100%
Final_Beyond_204@reddit
This is a hellhole. Staff is treated like shit...my sone was working for them as a cabin crew..things he told me are so outrageous that I can only congratulate you ability to fly with them
£1500 a month salary , if you live far from the airport you're fucked..uber or car with £10 a day for a parking
Imagine flying to the airport where its obvious they won't comeback as airport closes after 10 pm...they take you to the airport...no food provided and everything closed as its late..your eon your own.
Thats working conditions in Ryanair...I won't even talk about alcoholics and drugged passengers ...that whats Ryanair is famous for..
Silentkindfromsauna@reddit
Yes because the other airlines are so much better… This is an industry problem, not Ryanair’s fault. Despite half your complaints apply to any jobs. The employer is not responsible for where you live nor getting you home after your shift, especially not from some of the most connected destinations in the world.
Final_Beyond_204@reddit
Ive travelled on many including Wizzair, Easyjet, Virgin,Emirates, Bueling...nothing is even close to this.
So, no its not industry problem but one airline thats can fly you for £10 across the Europe.
Spuki77@reddit
I mean this could apply to almost any kind of job, especially if you deal with customers directly
Final_Beyond_204@reddit
No it could not. I have never even remotely been closed to what he went through..
Silentkindfromsauna@reddit
Not only that but it’s a perfectly average experience, have flown on airlines that are twice the price for the same route but somehow they’re not any better.
Paranoma@reddit
Accessibility does not equate to being the best airline in the world, by any imagination.
SwiftAndDecisive@reddit
Yeah, and also Tony Fernandes who bought this concept to Asia.
sId-Sapnu-puas@reddit
Yeah I’m in Malaga right now. £25 return. No add ons just me and a backpack. Papa bless Ryanair and their cheap fares.
jubbing@reddit
I hate Ryan air with a passion. But for under 3 hours, you bet I'm taking them because they are 1/3rd the price of other airlines.
smclcz@reddit
Interesting because that reason (and their unbridled hatred of their passengers) is why they're among the worst airlines in the world
leoedin@reddit
If they had left the back seat pockets I’d fly with them way more. I can handle no frills, but i hate having nowhere to put my stuff in the plane. That’s basically the reason I always choose EasyJet.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
Ryanair has put a lot of things to perfection. They optimize on profit but with the right focus (e.g. their maintenance is top notch because only planes that fly earn money)
PM_ME_ROMAN_NUDES@reddit
They also have a lot of techniques to get money from people who don`t know better
I couldn't checkin online because of a shitty internet the day before my flight, so I left to check in there and got thrown a 50 Euro charge for it. Learned my lesson, but would glady choose another company if available.
Badrear@reddit
I swear the ultra low cost airlines pick certain people and decide they can’t check in online. I flew Flybe to EDI, and even though our internet connection was fine, it said we had to check in at the airport and then pay their ridiculous fee. Same thing on the return, and the agent pointed to a sign saying they could deny service to anyone for any reason when we tried to explain the situation. I’ve heard similar stories with other similar airlines.
kajtekbee@reddit
Take the screenshots in such case and file a complaint later. Without the screenshot they will no do anything with a screenshot you may get a refund.
Badrear@reddit
This was years ago, and Flybe has gone out of business twice since then, so I’m content.
Melech333@reddit
Hijacking this thread because it seems like as good a place as any to ask this question... What in the world is a 50 euro fee for in this case? Isn't it an automated kiosk you check in with at the airport? Didn't they start charging $5 fees to still check in with a human when they rolled out automated kiosks? Now they charge a $50 fee to use an automated kiosk at all?
How is this even legal? This kind of crap needs to stop. This is why some decent regulation is good. Especially when there's limited competition. In a more balanced world they could strike a balance between limiting competition so carriers can keep costs reasonably low and regulating fees and fares so the public doesn't get taken advantage of.
Badrear@reddit
The ultra low cost carriers would go bankrupt quickly if no one paid for “extras” like seats, bags, etc. 50-200 Euros to fly somewhere probably doesn’t cover all their expenses. Planes, crew, customer service, maintenance, fuel, rent, marketing, are all expensive. These relatively small planes can hold $25,000 of jet fuel; that could be over $125 per person on a Ryanair 737, just to cover the fuel. It definitely feels like a scam when you’re not prepared or when something goes wrong and you have to pay to get help, but if you’re careful, you can get a really cheap flight.
Melech333@reddit
I agree that the costs seem unfathomably large. But I'd really rather the tickets cost what they need to cost, upfront, instead of it feeling like a game of discovering you're at a casino and you suck at gambling, or you just got caught speeding and you're getting a ticket, except all you did was run out of printer ink or your phone screen is cracked and the barcode won't scan, and boom, video game loser buzz sound effects whoo - ohhhhhh, "you lost another $50! That's $175 extra on your trip now, so your $150 trip is now up to $325. Be careful where you step next!"
tfm992@reddit
I disagree.
I pay for what I need at a price I'm happy with. I've never paid more than I've needed to.
If someone needs services I don't need, they should be paid for.
The idea of the low cost airlines is to be low cost. If you need all the services, you're sometimes better off flying with another airline and should book with that airline.
Melech333@reddit
To clarify: if the fee was small and reasonable to reflect that portion of the overall service provided, then okay, fair. This is more like a quick unfair "grab" gotcha! Because there is no way you can fly me on your maintained, staffed, fueled, and insured plane for $100 but then you need 50% if that again just to pay someone to check me in for a minute. No way, that is what the whole feeling is about - that's why it feels unfair.
Tl;Dr: if they need those charges to turn a profit, then spread it out into the ticket prices. Otherwise it feels deceptive, and certain unlucky few are being more heavily penalized than they should.
keplerniko@reddit
Can kind of tell you’re from the US and don’t have much familiarity with the model here.
If you follow the rules and everything goes right, you don’t get charged extra. Of course on Reddit you’re going to find lots of people complaining on the topic about things like check-in failure, because the other 159 people who were on that flight didn’t have an issue and didn’t complain. Some of them took luggage. Some got priority boarding. Some paid extra because their bag was too big or they couldn’t bother to print. Some people who are price insensitive don’t mind the costs which subsidise those who really do want the £20 ticket. Again, if you follow the rules you don’t get charged. I’ve paid only a handful of fees with Ryanair, and every time it was 100% my fault. £40 to print the pass is obviously far in excess of the labour and materials, but those are the rules. I accept them because that is how you get the crazy cheap tickets when everything goes right.
yoshipunk123456@reddit
Well why would a price insensitive person be flying on Ryanair?
planins@reddit
Due to not using a hub model Ryan often has direct flights to more niche destinations and over world use them if they racked to just fly direct
Badrear@reddit
I’m with you there. I personally hate all the bullshit fees, but not everyone agrees. I have a friend who loves paying almost nothing for tickets, and doesn’t bring much of anything. I’d rather pay more and know that’s all I’m going to pay, but that’s getting harder to find.
Chefdoc2000@reddit
It subsidies your cheap ticket. They have break even cost on each flight, some tickets will be €20 some €150. That’s the model follow their rules or pay. Fine with me, I had a heavy night and forgot to check in last week, paid the 50 it was on me, no complaints.
motionproblems11@reddit
Ryanair in this case does not have/operate self checkin kiosks. It's either online in the app or one or two staffed desks at the airport (with painful lines) - have done this twice recently due to being an idiot and forgetting to check in.
HammerT1m3@reddit
For me with wizz to London, it said I had to check in at the airport but they didn’t charge me anything extra. But I guess it’s standard to make sure you have your ETA visa
Pale-Ad-8383@reddit
Considering Singapore Airlines has an auto check in function… this should be a non issue. I don’t understand why we don’t get auto checked in if you are a regular flyer.
carrickshairline@reddit
Ryanair don’t even have a frequent flyer program because that costs money. To Ryanair, people are just money.
bulldogsm@reddit
which is weird because for US carriers the frequent flyer program is THE major asset, the only profitable part of an airline
-SetsunaFSeiei-@reddit
That’s because of their credit cards, which is not really possible outside the US because most other jurisdictions have clamped down hard on the fees credit card companies can charge merchants
CalculatorClicker@reddit
I have news for you.
To all major corporations people are just money.
alras@reddit
Low cost airlines offer that at an extra fee
Longjumping_Rule_560@reddit
You'd think that after a quarter century of operating as a ULCC people would get wise of Ryanair's tactics to suck every last dime out of their customers.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
People did get wise, multiple times, and every time people got wise, the airline moved the goalposts.
kushangaza@reddit
Last time I flew Ryanair, all of the "traps" were very clearly spelled out in the check-out process. They aren't trying to catch the type of person who "gets wise", they are trying to get some extra money out of the people who click next without reading what it says on the screen.
Marklar_RR@reddit
We are fully aware of Ryanair tactics and we are fine with this. I fly with them several times a year for the last 20 years and never paid any extra fees. I want them to fly me to my destination and don’t kill me. I don’t want them to entertain me and certainly not to feed me.
Adversement@reddit
I don't think any budget airline does such tactics... Like, the optional extras with Ryanair are notably cheaper than the very same optional extras for the conventional carriers. And, you absolutely can fly at the price shown at the beginning, none of the optional extras are mandatory to be obtained.
Oh, and, Ryanair has some things included for free what most conventional carriers charge extra for (like, an extra carry-on piece for a lap infant). Or, just to mention that the small item dimensions for Ryanair and easyJet are bigger than the EU minimum (which most conventional carriers have now defaulted to). The latter is very annoying as all good small carry-on items are budget airline size and as such too large for the conventional carriers...
The real trick is to streamline the process and extract better airplane fill factor despite more flights per airplane per day, and as such have more paying customers. The lure being the cheapest rates.
Klutzy-Residen@reddit
It's expensive to not learn by your previous mistakes.
ForeverShiny@reddit
The shittiest move they ever pulled on me was the following: I checked-in a piece of luggage on the flight out, but when I wanted to check it in for the return flight, they said I didn't book it for the return flight. Like WTF, I have to pay twice and they didn't even give me a pop-up when booking that said "You haven't selected the luggage option for the return flight, are you sure you want to proceed?"
Of course they had me pay multiple times what it would have cost online, I had to do it at a special Ryanair counter and they wouldn't take a credit card, but cash only so I had to run to an ATM. I ended up almost missing the check-in time for said luggage and that's when I swore I'd never fly with them again
heartofmidlothian278@reddit
I would gladly fly them every single time. If you play them at their own game and abide by their exact rules, you come out on top every time.
Last October, I flew from Ireland (Dublin) to Croatia (Dubrovnik) for €120 return, which included 20kg baggage, emergency row seats for extra leg room, and the ticket cost. Check in online a couple of hours before the flight, make sure your bags are the exact weight and size they're allowed to be, and you will have no issues at all. Sit down on the plane, put some noise cancelling headphones on, and accept it as the form of ultra cheap transport it is.
Straight line distance is about 2150km/1350 miles, so that's 2700 miles of hauling me and my stuff for €120. By the time I paid for petrol and parking, it cost me nearly twice that to leave my car at Dublin Airport for the week.
The people who complain about Ryanair are the ones that don't forward plan enough to deal with it.
_DoogieLion@reddit
Unless they decide that jet fuel is too expensive and just cancel your flight and relist it a few days later at a higher price
PracticalWait@reddit
that’s the neat part; they can’t. EC 261 forces them to reroute you at the earliest opportunity.
Boeing367-80@reddit
If you fly Ryanair the way they want you to, you can fly inexpensively. If you attempt to fly them some other way, you'll pay for it.
sneijder@reddit
For balance, It’s often an alert goes out to waive all charges if the homepage is knackered. I’d go so far as to say the ground handler involved has failed to realise this.
Aranka_Szeretlek@reddit
Not sure how much that contributes. In my experience, they maybe single out a single people per flight (depends heavily on the location, I thibk Ive seen only one person paying and I flew a lot with them). Lets say 1 in 50 passangers have to pay, thats an upper limit. They carry about 200 million people per year, so we got 4 million cases, 50 euros each, 200 million. Thats not nothing, but the market cap in the screenshot is 40000 million, so this is a good 0.5% of it.
Darth19Vader77@reddit
That sounds like it should be illegal, why should someone have to pay extra for something they need to do before using your product?
That's like going to a restaurant and if you don't order utensils and plates when you order your meal they charge you extra when it's time for the waiter to serve your meal otherwise they throw it on the ground.
CalculatorClicker@reddit
That's the thing though, you're not required to check in at the airport. You can check in on your phone or online, both of which are fee free. When you check in at the airport and therefore incur additional cost on Ryanairs side (renting the checkin counter, hiring an employee, etc) they charge you a fee.
eswifttng@reddit
But they couldn’t
CalculatorClicker@reddit
So then you take a screenshot, pay the fee, and then file a refund request. It's not the gate agents job to determine if the request is reasonable.
StatementOk470@reddit
Unfortunately you signed a paper when you entered the restaurant that said you would pay extra or your food gets served on the ground.
Darth19Vader77@reddit
Regardless, it's an objectionable business practice
eric-neg@reddit
I don’t have the opportunity to fly Ryanair but they remind me of what Southwest was like previously. They are very, very good at what they do. Just don’t ask for anything else!
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Except southwest has a higher standard of service than even ""full-service"" carriers in Europe on flights under ~7 hours.
chunkymonk3y@reddit
It’s the Aldi of airlines.
Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
In the beginning, they tried to copy southwest before they optimized the model themselves
Markd0ne@reddit
And they have same fleet of Boing 737 albeit different generations including 737 MAX which they got for cheap after those 2 infamous disasters.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
I'm pretty sure the MAX orders were made all the way back in 2013, years before the jet even entered service, let alone the two crashes.
Chefdoc2000@reddit
What’s your point Ryanair has a five star safety rating
adjust_your_set@reddit
And their MAX-8200 (200 oldest variant) is probably the best CASM short haul airplane on the market.
wf789@reddit
239 seat A321neo is better. Harder to fill though.
Adversement@reddit
Define better. That doesn't sound like any better.
wf789@reddit
Lower CASM.
leviramsey@reddit
To be clear, optimizing for CASM is not a guarantee of profit, as RASM is also relevant (as is, channeling Neeleman, trip cost).
It's rare to have an airline do particularly well on multiple of those metrics.
wf789@reddit
Nobody claimed that.
Someone said that MAX-8200 had the best CASM, i replied that 321neo is better.
leviramsey@reddit
I was as much replying to who you replied to (the "if it's better CASM but harder to fill, is it really better" reply). 321neo has better CASM, as far as that goes.
Lonely_Accountant524@reddit
What is CASM?
Funsocks1@reddit
Cost per Available Seat Mile
uagotapo@reddit
They also did a massive order just after 9/11, because the aviation industry was down so no one was ordering new aircraft, so they could get them cheap
UnderstandingNo5667@reddit
The great investment advice here is “when others are greedy, be fearful. When others are fearful, be greedy.”
obscure_monke@reddit
2001 was a double whammy of being able to renegotiate prices, and increase your order quantity because outstanding orders were being cancelled.
Selling planes that have been in the air for half of their life for more than you bought them for would sound insane to people who don't know modern commercial air transport.
By-Eck@reddit
Ryanair's relationship with the Max pre-dates the tragic accidents.
They placed firm orders for 100 737max and 100 purchase options in September 2014, formalised in December 2014, making them the launch customer for the Max 8-200. The crashes happened in Oct 2018 and Mar 2019.
In December 2020 Ryanair ordered 75 737-8-200s, and followed this up with an order for 150 with a further 150 options in May 2023.
With public confidence in Boeing at a real low at the time, Ryanair backed the Max and you are absolutely correct that they got a great deal in December 2020.
obscure_monke@reddit
They also built out a sim-training facility in dublin for the MAX, knowing they'd need to train all of their pilots for it when it returned to flying.
Only learned about that in a tomscott+ video collab with that mentour pilot guy.
I'm sure if they could have convinced Boeing to not stop making those planes, they would have. Those planes use so much less fuel it's worth it, and will pay off after a few years.
Asianchansation@reddit
lol meanwhile… Air Canada… fleet utilized to the max. Lack of parts. Lack of planes to fill in when one gets grounded.
RecordEnvironmental4@reddit
They also have a fleet of 7 private jets used to move around spare parts and mechanics contributing to their high serviceability
Mother_Exit_2792@reddit
They put a lot into their maintenance because as they are a cheap airline the public think they cut corners on it. So if they do have an accident they would take much longer than one of the prestige airlines to recover financially.
Hermeran@reddit
Sorry, how does that make sense? Not saying Ryanair maintenance isn’t decent - but following your logic, you’re saying ‘prestige’ airlines like Emirates or Lufthansa spend less on maintenance because they’re less scared of their reputation if they have an accident. That’s… a very wild statement.
Mother_Exit_2792@reddit
Not saying spend less but Ryan Air go further. Also one of the youngest fleets. Their safety record is not an accident.
Final_Beyond_204@reddit
What are you even talking about?
Hour_Firefighter_707@reddit
I'm more surprised IndiGo is that competitive in market cap. It is a much smaller airline that flies way fewer people, makes up most it's revenue in ₹ and is listed in NSE and BSE which also trades stocks in ₹. The same ₹ that has been tanking hard last few months
MayiruPudungi@reddit
And IndiGo is sitting on top of bottomless growth with more and more people being able to afford to fly. Currently IndiGo would serve at best 10% of the Indian population and that number is only going up.
jubbing@reddit
Huge market share, they fly mostly the same planes domestically so the cost is the same throughout (lower maintenence and training), strong connecticity, etc. Ryan air model, but in India.
knakworst36@reddit
It’s similair with Ryan air operationally. But the costumer experience is fundamentally different. Indigo actually has lovely crew and decent service.
784512784512@reddit
If this is current mcap, then Indigo is actually 20% lesser than what they used to be 4-5 months ago.
murrmc@reddit (OP)
These are current mcaps
https://companiesmarketcap.com/airlines/largest-airlines-by-market-cap/
JKKIDD231@reddit
Indigo doesn’t even fly international or do they. That’s a surprise.
Hour_Firefighter_707@reddit
They do. West Asia, South East Asia, island countries in the Indian Ocean. They started flying to Athens with their new A321 XLRs in January and fly to Istanbul and London, maybe a couple of other places through wet leased wide bodies until their own A350s arrive.
The IndiGo operation is bigger than many might think
TaskForceCausality@reddit
Ryanair benefits from a relatively compact operating area (Europe < US) and tight management structure that optimizes every aspect of the flight, including the passenger boarding process. For example, Ryanair did the math and recognizes every minute a plane spends on the ground is a minute it’s not earning money. So they minimize ground turnaround times & fly into smaller airports, both actions benefitting the airline but also the passengers.
Meanwhile, a U.S. low cost carrier is saddled with large domestic distances and almost no control over the boarding process. Once the plane touches down they’re at the mercy of the airport management, for better or worse.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Regarding the geography issue, is there any reason the US couldn't have a ULCC that only operates in the eastern half of the country, or only operates near the west coast?
This is before considering that, contrary to popular belief, there are plenty of intra-Europe routes that go well into mid-haul territory, with flight times of 4-6 hours, especially when you include the Canary Islands and the Levant.
Mr06506@reddit
One thing RyanAir does to drive down prices is fly to secondary airports. The US has thousands of airports so I don't really get why there isn't more competition among them for routes.
TaskForceCausality@reddit
We return to the problem of large distances. Low cost carriers land at outlying airports, but those airports as themselves hours away from population centers. This negates a lot of the cost and time advantage from using those airports versus congested hubs.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Sounds like Hahn and Vatry...
Palemka91@reddit
You can land 100km from the bigger city in Europe and just take the train/bus afterwards. In the USA you'll need to rent the car/get Uber.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Many of the outlying airports Ryanair uses have very poor transport links to the city they're marketed as.
UpIn_@reddit
Could you please explain why flying to smaller airports benefits passengers? Genuinely curious as I only see negatives: longer travelling times (from or/and to, which turns into more expensive), less services at the airport…
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
No queues at security, 10 minutes from car park to the gate, very short taxi times, no holding for other aircraft (be it on the ground or in the air), lower ticket prices (due to less services at the airport, which mean lower operating costs, which result in lower passenger handling fees), no waiting for fuel truck or ground staff, or for the gate to become available.
And not everyone wants to go to the main city. For example, if you're going to Brescia in Italy, you could fly to Milan Malpensa (main airport) and then drive for two hours, or fly to Bergamo (secondary airport) and be there in under an hour.
mccusk@reddit
And then you get to Bergamo and realize who do t have to go to Milan at all cos it’s amazing 😀
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
This is crazy airport dependent, I don't think you can make these claims categorically.
e.g,. flying out of LAX I never have queues at security or holding for other aircraft. Flying out of Ontario, I've had both.
Lower ticket prices is an outcome - and it's by no means guaranteed. There are some very expensive secondary airports to fly in / out of.
e.g., Denver to LA is more expensive at every single ancillary airport relative to LAX. SNA is almost 2x in price.
It CAN be lower cost to the airline, which can translate to opportunity to lower price, but to the point above - if you trade $20 on a ticket for an extra 1.5 hours to your destination by car, how much are you really saving?
Again, none of this guaranteed categorically. These are questions of both capacity and demand.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
I was really more explaining it from a European perspective.
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
I don't think this is necessarily true from a European perspective.
I don't think you can make a categorical claim that smaller airports benefit passengers.
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
Wildly different consumer segments and markets too.
US airlines are making all their money on premium segment and business travel. The "British holidaymakers wanting to fly to the coast of Spain for $40" set is much less influential and American customers are just outright wealthier.
Victormitzi@reddit
I don't know about the benefit for passengers in this. It usually means less services in the airport, further away and/or less connected to the city, less flight connections to other places
I still love Ryanair but I don't enjoy flying to the horrible small airports they use (some examples: Milan Bergamo instead of Malpensa, Frankfurt Hahn instead of Frankfurt Main etc)
adamthehammer86@reddit
In my state, the secondary airport is two hours by car away from the biggest city/airport, and you have to drive through another moderate sized city on the interstate highway to get there.
Rc72@reddit
Don't underestimate how far the airports Ryanair uses are from their putative cities! "Brussels South"-Charleroi and "London"-Luton are 40 miles from Brussels and London, respectively, "Paris"-Beauvais airport 60 miles from Paris, "Frankfurt"-Hahn 80 miles from Frankfurt. And they're all notoriously badly connected to public transportation, so 2-hour drives are really quite common when flying Ryanair.
adamthehammer86@reddit
I don’t have any doubt that people in other countries have to drive long distances also. This is just one of example; there is some far worse examples and other states. Third options for airports, with drastically limited service, is two hours another direction (and over some mountains), the other one is another four hours in another direction.
In my first example, that 2 hour (80 mile+) drive keeps you in the same valley. I do hate to think the distances some people who live in less populated areas have to go.
really_random_user@reddit
I think it's less about us size and more to do about population distribution.
The whole midwest has noone and probably messes with operations and timings
The eu has over twice the populatin density of the usa
But it's a bit more evenly distributed
So probably easier to schedule lots of flights in a day and fewer positioning flights
Or it could be the fact that everyone has at least 20 vacation days/year so weekend trips are more common
upbeatelk2622@reddit
Most of them have an accordingly bad reputation in service that goes hand-in-hand with the market cap.
BB-68@reddit
The most important factor to most non-business travelers when deciding what to fly is price. Companies have adjusted accordingly, and flying has never been cheaper or more accessible. Service necessarily needs to be adjusted to make the economics work.
Would you rather be in the "golden age" of flying on a loud 747-100 that's full of people smoking and not unlikely to be hijacked? For that privilege, you also get to pay 3x more than you do today for the same flight.
YoIronFistBro@reddit
Compared to 30 years ago? Sure.
20 years? Maybe
10 years? Absolutely not!
Colloidal_entropy@reddit
Direct Flights are one of Ryanair's key selling points as much as price. They're not that cheap if you add a checked bag and seat selection. But no connection is a big benefit.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
You just have to add the non-hijacking part of safety statistics to the "golden age" to make it more enticing :)
BB-68@reddit
You know what makes a flight even more exciting? Wondering if that window frame is suddenly going to crack and cause an explosive decompression at 35,000ft.
What a rush!
mkosmo@reddit
I hope you're more worried about a wheel falling off your car, or your steering wheel shaft breaking, since both of those are statistically more likely to occur.
BB-68@reddit
I'm referring to the fact that flying today is orders of magnitude safer than it was during its alleged golden age.
JustAn0th3rD3viant@reddit
2nd paragraph is so spot on.
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
Not really.
Most people consider Delta to be comfortably the best / best experience main line in the US. Followed by United. Both well ahead of American.
For IAG, all of British, Aer Lingus, Iberia, and Vueling are rated four stars on Skytrax - for whatever that's worth.
Same with IndiGo for Interglobe.
26point2miles@reddit
I flew RyanAir for the first time a few weeks ago. I was very nervous with all the horror stories.
Info provided beforehand via email was useful. App is simple and easy to use. Check-in was a breeze.
I made sure our baggage was within specs. One of the check-ins was slightly over, but they didn't even bring it up.
Our carry ons had to fit under the seat, which they comfortably did, we even did a self check in the model they provide (there was no weight guidance on the carry ons). On the plane, they weren't preventing anyone from putting it in the overhead.
Check-in was great, ahead of schedule. A few people trying to bring in oversized backpacks were asked to step aside to address (they didn't follow the rules).
People were polite. Plane was clean. Took off early. Flight was good, with the trademark hard landing (I would have been disappointed if I didn't get my full money's worth).
I was impressed. It was better than most US flights. Staff was way more polite too. Sure, you can't recline or get free water/drink, but unnoticeable on a short flight.
Would use them again in a heartbeat as long as the destinations make sense. In this case, it was operating to the exact airports I wanted to get to.
mccusk@reddit
Non reclining seat are a great idea!
allnamestaken1968@reddit
Adjust for debt to see enterprise value. Ryanair has 2bilkion. Net, United 12 billion net of cash
This is a typical problem when comparing value of companies - you have to include the debt
Bright-Energy-7417@reddit
I believe they have the largest number of planes and routes in Europe. I wonder how they compare to the US airlines in actual passenger numbers? That might be an uncomfortable statistic.
pixter@reddit
They are 2nd at the moment I believe with 206 million passengers for 2025/2026
ChocolatePrimary3428@reddit
Flight Formula on YouTube has an interesting 3 part series on Ireland and its impact on global aviation.
Creation of the 1st Duty Free.
Its dominance in aircraft leasing.
How innovative Aer Lingus were as a national carrier back before deregulation.
The explosive growth of Ryanair.
The sheer amount of Irish people in senior management/CIO positions in airlines around the world.
careful_hot_stove@reddit
link?
gmac-320@reddit
They also provided the world Alan Joyce. Ruined One of the best Airlines in the world and managed to make an entire country (Australia) hate his guts. Not too many people would stop if he was crossing the road.
blackgenz2002kid@reddit
they’re a great YouTube channel
MindingMyMindfulness@reddit
Link it
vismaypikachu@reddit
Huh. Didn’t realize Delta was at the top. Flew them for the first time last week
curiousengineer601@reddit
My takeaway is how tiny these companies are compared to big technology. Apple and Nvidia could buy these guys for fun
maybach320@reddit
Ryanair is higher than I would have thought. Delta being on top makes sense as it’s hard to find a credit card company that’s not successful.
CosmicPenguin_OV103@reddit
Wait, AA is that much smaller than DL and UA???
SideEmbarrassed1611@reddit
Looked up American and wonder how it's so scary that they'd merge with United given how small their market cap is.
ravercwb@reddit
Wonder where American is sitting right now
Narrow_Affect2648@reddit
American way down near the bottom with their massive ball of debt weighing them down.
SurvivingStage4@reddit
A better financial view is enterprise value, not market cap. Market cap means very little in terms of the economic value of a business.
EV - market cap + debt - cash. This is the way to compare. Here they are, all numbers close but not exact:
Delta: $56B
United: $50B
American: $38B
Southwest: $23B
Feel free to figure out the others
B4DR1998@reddit
So many people sleep on Ryanair…. You can the CEO all you want. But that man is a genius when it comes to running an airline.
Oberst_Reziik@reddit
Yeah and should be the 1st.... It's crazy how much people they move...
Deep_Gazelle_1879@reddit
Check how many planes they own
Nice_Classroom_6459@reddit
Southwest has never filed for bankruptcy; this means they've never had a debt-to-equity conversion like the other airlines have - so their market cap is inherently lower (because that debt has not been monetized/passed on to consumers/shareholders as 'cleanly').
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
That's not how market cap or company valuation works.
Southwest has lower market cap because it earns less money than the other airlines in question. e.g,. half of Delta's revenue and a quarter its EBITDA.
In fact, Southwest has a significantly higher market cap relative to its earnings than any airline on this list outside of IndiGo due to its growth potential.
King-Meister@reddit
Why isn't a Chinese airline in the top 5? Probably has the largest number of middle income population who has enough disposable income to afford flights. Or are larger Chinese airlines not listed?
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
Both Europe and the US still have significantly larger aviation markets by passenger volume.
Middle income in China is like $4K. Middle income in the US is something like $60K. If you're looking at anything denominated in revenue, earnings, market cap etc. - it's a totally different ballgame. You can earn an entirely different universe of money off of US consumers than Chinese ones.
US and European aviation markets are very mature, and relatively consolidated. The Chinese aviation market is less mature and more fragmented with a wider distribution of share.
ZetaM3@reddit
Because it’s based on market cap which is their stock value. Chinese airlines aren’t traded en masse.
lajji69@reddit
There's a bunch of them in the 5-20 range
Massive_Hamster7257@reddit
And Tesla at a trillion. The joke is on this world.
SwiftAndDecisive@reddit
I think Ryanair's rise comes down to having the founder at the helm instead of a revolving door of MBAs with competing agendas. Add in a very lean operation, tax optimizations, and a lack of the union overhead that plagues legacy airlines, and you have their recipe for success.
Appropriate-Bird-354@reddit
Engineer types love to trot out this narrative that evil MBAs are ruining their pure industry, but it never holds up when you examine it. Bad decisions aren't unique to MBAs, nor are Engineers immune from them.
Michael O'Leary didn't found Ryanair. He also started his career as a consultant, which is the next best thing to an MBA.
Delta certainly isn't led by its founder. But its CEO has a degree from an undergraduate business school. Most of the management of Delta have MBAs or other professional degrees (e.g., the President, Chief Commercial Officer, COO).
The CEO of United has a masters degree in a business topic. Most of United's executive team has an MBA or JD.
The CEO of IAG has an MBA, as do the CEOs of Aer Lingus, Vueling, and Iberia along with most of the rest of the management committee.
And so on and so on.
00ashk@reddit
#11 by revenue, their profit margins are above-average
WestCoastCurt@reddit
I don’t see FedEx on the list…. $91.93B
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
FedEx is a shipping company with an airline attached to it - a large chunk of the business hasn't got much to do with the airline.
WestCoastCurt@reddit
If we were talking about UPS, I would agree. But we aren’t, so I don’t.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
You could only compare Fedex to the airlines above, if they also operated a train, bus and a taxi service, i.e. you could buy a ticket from your home to the your friend's house on the other side of the country. And if they would also give you a chance to book a ticket from one to another part of the same city.
WestCoastCurt@reddit
I guess it comes down to how you define airline. You are saying only passenger carries are airlines. Where the reality is, passenger carries are a sub category of airline. FedEx operates under the same rules and regulations (Part 121) as all the other big US passenger carries, and is classified as an airline.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
You're missing the point.
A large chunk of FedEx's business is just ground transport. I can ship something from one part of the town to another, and the parcel will never see an aircraft at any point.
Let's say I want to send a parcel from Antwerp to Ghent in Belgium, I can do that with FedEx, and they'll put the parcel on the van/truck and drive it there.
Can I buy an airline ticket from Antwerp to Ghent from any of the airlines above, and if the distance is too short, will they just operate their own branded bus or taxi, between the two addresses, ensuring that I get where I want to go?
WestCoastCurt@reddit
And you are missing that are large portion of the passenger carriers profits come from belly freight.
MmmSteaky@reddit
That’s some grade-A goalpost moving right there.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
Yeah, especially Ryanair, the theme of this thread. They carry soooo muuuuch freight :)
WestCoastCurt@reddit
You might be surprised.
MmmSteaky@reddit
Fedex Express (the airline) is a wholly-owned, private subsidiary of Fedex Corp. Hard to quantify market cap when it doesn’t have its own publicly-traded stock.
mancuso19@reddit
Maybe I'm dumb, where are Emirates, Qatar Airways and other arab companies in this list?
sneijder@reddit
Lumping IAG together is nonsense, from a professional experience IB / BA / EI might as well be on different planets, totally different cost centers / practices / contracts etc … only ‘efficiency’ I see is the least organised of them relying heavily on on other IAG airlines containers
Pro-editor-1105@reddit
Ryanair were number 1 for a huge amount of time btw
skabberwobber@reddit
3 months at the end of 2023 into 2024. Largely because delta stock dropped due to many worldly events.
spatosmg@reddit
ryanair has the most money too. its crazy how much they have in the bank
ReadyCav@reddit
And to think Tesla's market cap is $1.3 T
Integasaurus@reddit
Apples and oranges.
Kardinal@reddit
What astonishes me is that American isn't in the top six. I assumed it would be third.
Shows what I know: very little.
External-Creme-6226@reddit
AA’s debt levels are so high that their stock price has gone way down
Kardinal@reddit
Yeah, as I said, shows what I know.
SwiftAndDecisive@reddit
When you have Vasu Raja to lead an airline.
jubbing@reddit
They've been on a downward trajectory for a number of years.
thitmeo@reddit
IAG at number 4 is British Airways, Aer Lingus (heh) and Iberia, and is 26% owned by Qatar Airways, who are NOT a part of IAG.
Rc72@reddit
Vueling (big Spanish-based budget airline) is also part of IAG.
scoobynoodles@reddit
Which site is this?
murrmc@reddit (OP)
https://companiesmarketcap.com/airlines/largest-airlines-by-market-cap/
murrmc@reddit (OP)
https://companiesmarketcap.com/airlines/largest-airlines-by-market-cap/
The full list
ZetaM3@reddit
This is a worthless post — market cap is a shitty value to be comparing global airlines to.
BelethorsGeneralShit@reddit
One of my favorite pieces of trivia is that before the Delta/Northwest merger, the largest airline by fleet size was NetJets.
Gxs1234@reddit
I just got my ppl license, I am gonna apply for Ryan air
kajtekbee@reddit
They have over 600 aircraft. Im not sure how many they own but you have to keep in mind when looking at valuations that profits and asstes of company should be taken into account.
Fragrant-Parsley-252@reddit
They own more or less 95% of them
basketballpope@reddit
Rory Sutherland (marketing consultant) does a lot of YouTube content these days. He sums up the Ryanair experience pretty well: you get on and think "This isn't as bad as I expected it to be". Luxurious they are not, but they get the job done. I'm more at risk from other passengers than I am from poor maintenance or piloting, so I fly them with peace of mind.
They consistently fly routes a lot of other carriers don't touch, or offer seasonal service only, making it fairly reliable to get around Europe.
There's a few routes I take where if another carrier is available I'll consider taking the alternative so long as there isn't a massive price difference (£100+) for a sub-2 hour flight, but usually stick to ryanair for non-work related travel.
.
tomplace@reddit
Ryanair know their market and are hyper focused on it. Read their twitter, it’s both hilarious but tells you what they are all about.