Have You Noticed This?

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LibertyChecked28@reddit

Its called "taking the piss", "mocking within a contextual scale".

The Turkish society has unhealthy obsession with Eugenics, so much so that Turkish nationalists go to unrelated subreddits like r/Kazakhstan and r/iran to post about eugenics that paints the inhabitants of Kazakhstan as the Servant Mutt Larpers, and Anatolian Turks as the wholesome OG projenitors. Hell, I have seen Turks whom wholeheartedly claim that Slavs & Germans are blond "only because the Ancient Turks had fucked them, since every single blonde hair gene exclusively belongs to the Turks".

It's as downright insufferable, those nationalists would rather rationalise a system that hates them about the way they ware born, rather than waste their energy into something more productive, like bullying the Iraqis for example. At one point when you stumble across the +1000th eugenics post from a Turkish nationalist who wants to make himself feel better about his crippling insecurities you can't help but start making fun of it, not only because it got washed, but also because some some of the stuff is hilarious.

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Top_Introduction2309@reddit

The Turkish society doesn’t have an unhealthy obsession with genetics. You only interact with a very small minority of people in Turkey, who are likely mostly from diasporas.

Turkish society in general doesn’t even know much about other nations.

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determine96@reddit

The Turkish society doesn’t have an unhealthy obsession with genetics. You only interact with a very small minority of people in Turkey, who are likely mostly from diasporas.

Ask him if the Bulgars (proto-Bulgarians) were Turkic and see what happens.

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Additional-Penalty97@reddit

Culture and ethnicity are different things. Of course we care about Turkic peoples.

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determine96@reddit

I'm not sure if I was understood correctly.

I'm saying that Bulgarians, many on the internet reqcts the same if someone say that proto-Bulgarians were Turkic.

So I told him to ask the Bulgarian guy who say that Turks care too much basically, what he think about Bulgars being Turkic.

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Mean_Intention_3895@reddit

It is a historical fact that first bulgar tribes were central Asian nomads. Your nation today has nothing to do with that heritage and we don’t go around calling Bulgarians our brothers since your people quite literally ethnically cleansed the Turks off the map entirely.

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determine96@reddit

Don't give a shit to be honest.

This is how it was with most of the medieval states.

They were probably a ruling class of people who were able to make a state with centralized power and that's the important to us.

Other than that we are also Slavs, but we fought with Russia, Serbia.

So we should be cursed for eternity by your logic.

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Mean_Intention_3895@reddit

What are you even talking about genuinely asking ? It’s so embarrassing from your side lol

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determine96@reddit

You talk about who you think is your brother and who isn't..

So I explained why your logic is dumb and why I don't give a shit.

Yes, it is embarrassing that I even bothering answering you lol

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Mean_Intention_3895@reddit

The wording of your sentences are off and hard to understand but I agree with you. And my logic is pretty straightforward, nothing wrong with it.

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Additional-Penalty97@reddit

Oh i misunderstood as well then and you are fair in your point. But i think you should make it clearer because you can interpret it as "Turks rambling about Bulgarian heritage and claim them as their own, thus they are doing eugenics."

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determine96@reddit

Yeah, bad phrasing.

Balkan peasant english from my side I guess.

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Additional-Penalty97@reddit

No problem mate we all struggle with it

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floare_salbatica@reddit

I always find it funny when people on social media call me a gypsy as a slur when they're loosing an argument, then I click on their profile picture and they look like the 100% have Roma ancestry. 🤣 It's delicious how stupid they can be.

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Turkish_Teacher@reddit (OP)

No one in Turkey even knew the concept of a genetic test until recently. It's because people use it as an attacking point that we became aware of it.

I don't condone racism of Turks.

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Commercial_Leek6987@reddit

Bulgars! Go back to Siberia!

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

I don't like the way all Turks are lumped together when it comes to Greeks.

Not every Turkish community in the Balkans has ever had any contact with Greeks.

For example, the Turks and Tatars in Dobruja, or the Turks from the island of Ada Kaleh, or the Yörüks from North Macedonia.

These people lived for centuries alongside a completely different population, with Slavs, Romanians, and so on.

Especially in Dobruja, there are also many Turks of Gypsy descent. They are only noticeable because of their darker appearance, not because of their way of life.

You can see, for example, mixed marriages in old photographs.

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Being Turk was always more about ancestral heritage AND Turkic culture, never about bloodlines.

Our ancestors didnt have a concept of "pure blood" like the egyptians, british or habsburgs did.

İnstead they always went after a simple rule: if you have a branch in your family tree that connects you to your Turk ancestors, and you protect your Turkish heritage, then you are a Turk.

İts been this way since our expansion to central asia and maybe even as far back as the Tegrek (Dingling) era.

İts the main reason we spread so far and wide in the world.

And why we prevailed while the mongols dissappeared.

So all this talk about genetics is just ridiculously stupid, especially in Turkey where Turks mixed with blonde and brown people. We literally are the most genetically diverse mfs in europe & most of asia. And definetly the most genetically diverse Turks in the world.

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Adistaktos34@reddit

Do you think that is a reason why Erdogan is putting Islam first? For example, he said that when he asked his father if Laz was Greek, he replied that when he died, God would ask him if he was a Muslim, not where he came from. Do you think he is worried that if some Turks search and find that he comes from the Balkans or Persia, the unified state will be divided?

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Nah. We've had non-turkish presidents before and nothing happened then too (tho they did a shit job as presidents)

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

Yes, I know, but many people don't understand that.

Unfortunately.

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

Usually it’s moreso that Turkish speaking Romani identify as ethnic Turks. Not that they mix with the actual Turkish population of old in their home region. Be it Bulgaria, Macedonia or western Thrace. Even though Turks and Turkish speaking romani live in the same places intermixing is still very uncommon due to historical taboo and differences in socio-economic standing. It’s the same with Christian ethnic groups however mixing with Albanians and Muslim south Slavs is very common, if not the norm in areas close to these populations.

Worth mentioning even though there’s a group recognized as “Turkish” in a strict sense they’re mostly of pre-Ottoman local origin which means they are arguably not necessarily more “Turkish” than the Roma who identify as such and hold a dual identity.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

Also read this article, romani dance women, so called cengiye, have children with Albanian Bey (rich Albanian Men).

https://globalhistorydialogues.org/stories/the-lives-of-albanian-cengies

The Greek Doctor A. G. Paspati made the statement in his book from 1860, that Turks married often Roma women and the Rumelian Romani dialect is nearly lost by the Muslim Turkish Roma, who speak entirely Turkish.

Ernest Gilliat-Smith, explained in 1915, that this Turkish Roma in Bulgaria can not speak Romani language, and compared them with very poor Turks rather than Romani people.

The French orientalist Henri Bourgeois referred to the Turkish Roma as Pseudo Roma, especially the newspaper Laço who was published in 1910 by Emin Resa.

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

I don’t understand what you’re trying to prove. There’s a Turkish speaking Roma community that is seperate from the “Balkan Turkish” community in every region of the Balkans. One community is mostly descended from 1300/1400s Turkified Balkanites and some Ottoman era Turkish/Tatar settlers while the other is of explicitly Romani descend but Turkified due to living in a Turkish speaking environment. The exact same thing happened Bulgarians in Dobruja who became the Gagauz.

Intermixing objectively wasn’t common. I’ve seen over 100 Balkan Turkish results and literally none score any South Asian admixture. Even people from areas with lots of Romani people like Shumen, Plovdiv or Strumica.

There were exceptions of course. Especially in the late Ottoman period but most marriages were arranged until the mid-late 1900s and parents always chose somebody of similar ancestry where they lived. Not Roma people who they heavily looked down upon and considered difference.

The communities are not one and the same, and are neither regarded as such even today is my point. Romanian Dobruja is one of the areas in the Balkans I know the least about so it’s possible that things might be different there. I’m absolutely not denying that. But for Bulgaria, North Macedonia and Greece that just isn’t the case. Turkish speaking Roma, while regarded as more “adjacent” then Bulgarian or Albanian speaking Roma aren’t viewed as “Turks” in the strictest sense are distinguished and two separate communities.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

But Im mixed...turkish gypsy, balkan turks and dobrujan tatars...paternal side

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

You’re the exception rather than the norm. As I said there are few people who’ve seen as many Balkan Turk results as me and few who know Balkan Turkish history as well as me on Reddit. Intermixing with Roma was taboo and not common.

Source I’m literally from a Turkish community in Macedonia myself and know the social dynamics of the region. “Turks” and Roma almost never intermarry while the same isn’t true for Albanians and torbesh. The reason for this is because the local Roma were of historically lower socio-economic standing and because they were viewed negatively by all society. Maybe this is the reason Turkish speaking Roma and “ethnic” Turks do not view themselves as the same but that’s just how it is.

The only place where intermarriage with Roma even happened was in large provincial towns between the lower class of Turks and Turkish speaking Roma. This was however also rare but is recorded in places like Salonica, Edirne, or Plovdiv. Almost exclusively between Turkish males and Roma women, sometimes related to prostitution. Reason for this is because townsfolk weren’t a part of strongly knit rural communities where arranged marriage was the norm. If a poor Turk couldn’t find a spouse he could technically marry a Roma if her family also approved and that was what happened in very rare cases.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

From an ethnic point of view, a small part of today's Turks in Dobruja in Romania are descended from Roma who mixed with the nomadic Turks of Anatolia (yörüks) and who now identify as Turks.

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

Yeah I’m not denying the ottomans distinguished different Roma groups. Judging by Ottoman records themselves they very much did. Especially by profession. That does not mean the ottomans counted the Turkish speaking Roma in with the wider “Turkish” population. Your argument is pretty irrelevant anyways. Fact of the matter is Balkan Turks do not see Turkish speaking Roma as their “own kin” but as a separate group who they rarely intermarry with due to xenophobia and socio-economic standings.

You’re literally arguing with someone who’s from a Turkish community in Macedonia with local Roma as well. I know the social dynamics very well and intermarriage with local Roma rarely happens and was nonexistent 50 years ago. The Roma are distinguished and even have their own graves.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

You describe your experiences in North Macedonia.

But on the island of Ada Kaleh, it was different.

On Ada Kaleh, there weren't many unrelated families. To avoid inbreeding, and due to religious reasons, people married Muslims who weren't all Turks.

There were Dobruja Tatars, Bosnians, and descendants of Turkish Roma/Rudari on the island. They intermingled there.

From the 1940s onward, during the communist era, marriages with Romanians, Serbs, Hungarians, and Swabians also occurred, but rarely, and mostly Turkish men took such women.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

Look, these are my ethnicities. I personally identify as German-Turkish. Everyone on my father's side speaks only Turkish, and they never lived in a Roma community. My mother's side is mostly Danube Swabian; they always considered themselves of German descent and spoke German.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

my dna shows 13% roma so i dont know how much roma ancestors that meant i have.

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

You were quite specific about Romania Dobruja in your comment so perhaps I’m mistaken I want to add. I just assume the situation would be the same as in Bulgaria, Greece and north Macedonia where I’m very familiar with Turkish speaking communities.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

This Family was called Balkan Turks, but ...if you look deeper on this Picture you see differencys...

The Man who sit with the Dog is a mix of Turk Dad and Tatar mother, (his mother is left behind him, she must be a Nogay dobruja tatar). His wife on the right side is clearly a Muslim Gypsy woman (Horahane-Roma).

The so called Turks from dobruja is blend of mixitiy.

In turkey the was named Balkan Turks.

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Turkish_Teacher@reddit (OP)

Worth mentioning even though there’s a group recognized as “Turkish” in a strict sense they’re mostly of pre-Ottoman local origin which means they are arguably not necessarily more “Turkish” than the Roma who identify as such and hold a dual identity

Who?

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Fearless-Salad-6298@reddit

That's why they call em 'romi' I don't like Tatars weren't they some russophilian tribe that came up with the khazars?

Overall not everything starts with Türkiye, mate, you were off to a head start with Atatürk but the empirical times are loooooong gone.

Did you know he had a lover in Sofia? Yet wed a dark colored wife perhaps to make the Anatolian barbaric tribes that are the origin of nowadays Turkish people more comfortable

P.S. did you know that there is a country called Moldova, just above Romania where people are blonde leading to quite a lot of blond Romanians nowadays

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Ur racist is shining through

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

tatars in dobruja totally different, they live there since centurys, one are nogay the other crimean tatars who went there as refugees 1877-78.

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Fearless-Salad-6298@reddit

Crimean Tatars are Bulgarian, if you meant Crimean Rus :)

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

i speak from romania, dobruja region, the tatar community there...what they have to do what you say?

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Fearless-Salad-6298@reddit

I don't like THEM. The ones with the pieces of fabrics in trees and what was it Baba Albino?

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Salpingia@reddit

We’re all in this together. Anyone who isn’t a westerner will always have some difference to be ashamed of in their eyes.

Of course, bootlickers exist on all sides.

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Key-Concentrate806@reddit

I heard someone calling Albanians Shittards (from Shiptars which is their native word for Albanians), that's like real low :(

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kerobob@reddit

Have you noticed how Turks have infested anything related to the Balkans? Half of the posts are about Turkish related shit, holy fuck.

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ZestycloseHat4990@reddit

And any time an edgy or controversial joke is done about them comes off as racist despite them doing the same with every one else.

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Puzzled-Leader1@reddit

Infested is an interesting choice of word which says a lot about your hatred. Its proportionality, as the other user already told you, our population is bigger than the Balkans combined.

Balkan is also a Turkish word, your outrage is absolutely braindead.

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Fluid_Intention_875@reddit

Balkan culture (Montenegrin, Albanian, Bosniak, Serbian) cant be represented enough on this sub due to Anatolian Turks posting all day long. Come on man, its not right and fair

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Mochikumamon@reddit

Skill issue

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

İts not fair, İ can see that. But its equally unfair to restrict Turkish individuals for they havent done anything wrong to deserve being discriminated against

Best you can do is restrict by the region that these people live, but you cant really enforce for that rule since everyone can jist lie about it

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Puzzled-Leader1@reddit

Comments are always mixed, the problem is people aren’t posting. Instead of being bitter at the people contributing the most to the sub why not get involved and post yourself?

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HalayChekenKovboy@reddit

Have you considered making a post?

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kerobob@reddit

And Antarctica has roots from Greek. Who cares when the Balkan as a term was first used by the Germans because they falsely assumed that it was the dominant mountain range, and the local population didn't even use it, they called it Stara Planina.

Turks ruin literally anything they touch. Before Turks infested and convinced themselves they were Balkan, I had nothing against them.

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Substratas@reddit

The population of the entire Balkans, including Romania & Slovenia and excluding Turkey, is around 65 million. The population of Turkey is around 88 million.

gif

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LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit

Only reddit has some weird obsession, I just ignore it at this point. I'm a descendant of Themistocles and nobody can convince me otherwise.

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thatMrGecko@reddit

I've come to think that about 90% of opinion I run into on reddit are basically unreal. what I mean with that is, they're either made up to win an argument or piss someone off, or the holders of that opinion are so afraid of saying it out loud that it practically doesn't exist. so many idiotic takes and so much incoherent ideation.

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Salt_Fennel8876@reddit

If Themistocles had several children and all of them produced offspring, then most people in the Balkans are probably descendants of one of those children. ;-)

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casual_philosopher02@reddit

I just troll them, I don't care if you think I look like a Slav or Middle eastern

I am Greek so I look Greek, they just expect some short brunnete that looks like Irene Papa to be the greek look

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LiderNaMnenie@reddit

You look Turkish

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TurdEye69@reddit

10/10 rage bait. Worked too well.

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Substratas@reddit

She doesn’t look Turkish at all.

gif

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casual_philosopher02@reddit

bro wishes

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Starfalloss@reddit

There’s no “Turkish” look ya’ll look like a million different things mixed as hell.

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Wonderful-Hunt194@reddit

You’re proving OP’s point with your comment.

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casual_philosopher02@reddit

a very tall turkish woman*

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Fiery_Flamingo@reddit

You look very Greek.

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SoggyWait7801@reddit

Excuse me but racism was imposed on the US by the British they're the ones who imported slaves and are still. A very racist country i have met a few black British men who are far more angry than any black American men I have ever met

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oldyellowcab@reddit

Racism is stupidity.

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willowcurve@reddit

I blame the americans

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euroturkishh@reddit

I met some people who think Afganistan is in the Middle East. You're not wrong lol

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ThanksHorror4129@reddit

Honestly this is closer to the truth than not.

The European understanding of nationality is historically along linguistic lines not """racial"" or genetic, while the Americans are completely racism brained and hence you can have millions of people unironically call themselves Italian in the US despite not speaking the language because visually and generically they are probably indistinguishable from actual Italians.

This type of logic of ethnicity as rooted in DNA not language and culture is what opens the door for crazy stuff like Turkiye is not actually Turkish people the people there don't look Kyrgyz

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Substratas@reddit

I blame the americans

”Gurl no, Kim is not Caucasian. She Armenian...”

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ImamTrump@reddit

Popular on the internet ? Maybe in your algos. The people we interact with aren’t exactly scholars nor are they trying to make any points. It’s country against country racial banter. Perfectly normal to bait one another as the whole area gained its recent history by not being Turks. Though being conquered by them the past half millennia.

I say it too. We ruled the Greek for a thousand years. They’re still Greek.

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Natural_Scholar_1502@reddit

Cyprus ruled Greece?

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ImamTrump@reddit

Concept called mass migration

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LastHomeros@reddit

To be honest, Greeks started this by commenting “You look Greek, get a DNA test” on every damn post shared by a Turk who looks a little Western.

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FatherMozgus@reddit

This is not new at all

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Substratas@reddit

Why care so much though? I low-key love when people call us Albanians non-white.

https://i.redd.it/chmw8l2ydqvg1.gif

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Fourteen14XIV@reddit

Cause its rude as fuck but mostly fine as long as it stays in certain internet communities, it becomes a problem when it leaves that and then influences irl people who might be responsible for stuff like wether you get a job or not. Even if you aren't a minority in countries where that view is popular, soft power or your countries reputation is an important thing, so it can affect you in your home country too.

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Substratas@reddit

But being considered non-white is not a reputation destroyer. Trafficking cocaine & prostitutes, is.

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Fourteen14XIV@reddit

I mean, from what I have heard it certainly can be, or at least affect it. Or add to the already existing stereotypes, so now aside from Trafficking cocaine & prostitutes you can also add "inferior race".

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Substratas@reddit

I mean, from what I have heard it certainly can be, or at least affect it. Or add to the already existing stereotypes, so now aside from Trafficking cocaine & prostitutes you can also add "inferior race".

What does inferior race even mean?

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Fourteen14XIV@reddit

... Are you accusing me of racism or do you genuinely not know certain people think certain races are inferior?

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EternalPrince54@reddit

Albania doesnt mean White land? 🏳

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Substratas@reddit

Nope, it comes from the ancient city of Albanopolis.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

This has been going on for years on every platform; even the various DNA studies contribute to this. You read about it everywhere, with references to Greek DNA, etc.

I think it's a very powerful lobby.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Some Greeks blame dna companies why they use Greek-Albanian as single category

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

Some even write: Balkans-Greece

When asked, they always say the populations are genetically very similar.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Populations are actually very similar in the balkans wether we like it or not

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

Your DNA and your appearance often have nothing to do with each other.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

That is not true

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

not true in wich sense?

example a person with a black father and white mother shares also the european ancestry yet he or she will called afro heritage.

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

Your example does not make sense ,the balkanians share almost the same genetics and even by looks are hard to distinguish

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

Then I'll take myself as an example:

I don't look German at all, not even close, yet my DNA is full of Western and Northern European DNA, including my Maternal DNA.

That's because my mother is a Danube Swabian (Germanic tribe).

So, what now?

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

The problem is that you already pre determine what German looks like ,some people assume that blonde blue eyes means nort European which is completely wrong ,they are not even 5% of the Europeans.

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Hefty_Jaguar4305@reddit

I look romani ok? and believe my I know how Germans looks.

I didnt resemblance them

and of course look the danube swabians...

https://www.feked.hu/de/2023/07/05/festival/

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

You do not know how Germans looks cuz there is no single German look,you are talking nonsense ,you can inherit darker genes or lighter ones

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Substratas@reddit

Some Greeks blame dna companies why they use Greek-Albanian as single category

If you collectively dehumanize a certain group of people & then suddenly science finds out that you’re so closesly related to them, how would you feel?

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Annual_Jackfruit2892@reddit

It goes both ways. Greek and Albanian ultranationalists, think similar. Luckily it's changing now with the reality that the people are very related. And in the mix, both get very high Italian

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low-sikeliot-9062@reddit

The obsession some have with (armchair) "genetics" and "phenotypes" is annoying and yet we have daily posts about this stuff even if they are against the rules of the sub

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gushi1-@reddit

Turks and Greeks - one is Muslim other is Orthodox they the same people. Majority of today’s Greeks share no connection with the historical inhabitants of the area. To be honest the closest out be Albanians.

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EternalPrince54@reddit

Of course Greeks and Turks are really close, many Turkish people are descendants of old Christian Greeks. Greeks that stayed Greek till 19th/20th century couldnt openly intermix with Muslims and their children stay 'Greek'/Christian, only a male muslim could marry a female chrstian and you'd had muslim children so there you have this as well. Of course everything was mixed up undercover, who know's his ancestors didnt have bastard children, if they were vikings, catalan, albanian, slavs, arabs (saracen), francs, venezians, mongols, whatever!

But at the same time those who remained somehow greeks with greek name and the christian faith are the descendants of descendants of someone who didnt change religion

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Consistent-Sun-354@reddit

The vast majority of ethnic Greeks have ancestors who’ve lived there since at least the Middle Ages. You’re right about Ancient Greeks but “historical inhabitants” aren’t just Ancient Greeks. Migrations happen and demographic makeup changes. Greeks do still descend from their medieval ancestors, many of whom spoke another language than Greek but lived inside the territories of Modern Greece. Aromanian dominating Thessaly for instance, Slavic Macedonia and the Pelopennesian interior and Albanian Attica, Boeatia and Phocis.

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nobody1568@reddit

It's stupid and you should ignore it altogether. Pushing back on genetics claims is stupid too.

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Ok_Tie_7564@reddit

Seconded. Trolls are best ignored and blocked.