Gabrielle's Blood Innocence

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Mrblorg@reddit

She would have always done the Way of Love we'd still get Ides and maybe that would have been her first kills

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I think so too. Her choosing to kill to save Xena's life is such a poignant moment bc she tried really hard to walk the Way of Love.

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Agent8699@reddit

I think she would have lost it in battle - a heat of the moment type thing. Perhaps similar to the scenario in Legacy or Ides of March - basically trying to protect Xena from danger.

As for pursuing pacifism afterwards … perhaps. But, if the experience of using her blood innocence was directly tied to her kidnapping, crucifixion, betrayal, rape, forced pregnancy, attempted infanticide by her partner, etc, then it’s very possible that Gabrielle would have dealt with it better and perhaps come to terms with killing in battle if and when necessary.

I guess it just depends on what they would choose to do for storytelling purposes, especially creating maximum drama.

Maybe Gabrielle would have gone for a more standard “healer” storyline, as opposed to embracing Eli’s way of love?

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

i think she would not have gone down the pacifism route quite this far, but I think from what we know of Gabrielle, she would still be at least more than passingly interested in the Way of Love. she was always quite woo-woo and liked culty shit from very early on, s1-2... she was fascinated by David's one god too (or maybe that was more David, before she realized he was engaged lmao?), and she was generally of an age to do some soul searching outside Xena's long shadow.

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Agent8699@reddit

Oh, Gabrielle was definitely spiritually curious. I’m just not sure we would have even got the God of Love / Light if they’d avoided Dahak and the idea of monotheism. That is, if they stuck to the Greek gods or a similarly limited scope.

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

I often wish they would have stuck to Greek and other mythological stuff. But then my impression is that the writers must have felt they've exhausted the mythological and particularly Greek angle a bit, across XWP and HTLJ, by the time s4 rolls around. We have Northern Amazons/Shamanism and India/Early Christianity on Xwp, and Herc travelling all over in S5 of his own show - i know it's Dahak, but they still clearly wanted to expand the geography further with Sumeria and Ireland.

I always imagined it was inevitable, and if not Dahak and God of Love, it would have been some other encroaching Christian stuff. idk if Rob is religious at all, but from watching the show's latter seasons, it certainly seems so. maybe he was catering to US audiences or what, I dont know...

it's all a shame though. Ancient Greece was famously full of cults. Lots of stuff to work with there, if they wanted to go that route. But i guess they were operating on the assumption that the casual viewer will be interested in familiar imagery, and that does not go beyond surface level knowledge of Greek myths and much more closer understanding of Christian themes.

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Agent8699@reddit

Yes, Rob Tapert was very enthralled by the idea of polytheism being replaced by monotheism as a storyline. So, it probably would have still happened in some way, shape or form.

Although, I think I personally would have preferred to see the Greek mythology expanded upon and evolved within the series. There are a lot of interesting concepts and the Greek gods were fun characters.

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

yes, 100%. Artemis the patron goddess of Amazons was barely even on xwp - there was much to be done there alone

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I imagined she would've played a larger role in the conflicts of the Amazons, but they were always being killed off, unfortunately.

I also think Gabrielle should've been one of the Gods' chosen, be it Aphrodite or Artemis.

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

actually it would be a great episode for Artemis and Aphrodite to fight over Gabby. comedic gold! but with a more important undertone about Gabrielle’s broader journey as a character- way of love, or way of the warrior?

and in the end Gabby would sort of let them both down easy, being like I dont need to be chosen, I make my own path (but not without going on a bit of a power trip as she’s wont to do 🤣)

ooh i’ve really gone and got myself excited about this plot!!!

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Oh my word! That would've made a great episode!!

Two beautiful goddesses fighting over Gabrielle? I can already see Xena pretending not to care, but she's not to secretly fuming with jealousy the entire time. And Gabrielle would def go on a power trip.

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

omg yes jealous Xena! and then Xena will have a light bulb moment - so thats what it’s like for Gabrielle when Ares is around (actually Ares could be in the ep too trying to grab Xena if Gabrielle is out of the picture and completely failing to get Xena’s attention as she is too busy being jealous 🤣) and in the end X&G have some sappy campfire moment saying they are each other’s chosen and thats the most important thing

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Xena would be like, "Get out of my way, Ares. Your sisters keep flirting w my girlfriend. I gotta make sure I don't accidentally start a fight with one of them." I think you just wrote the plot of a very promising, comedic ep?

I especially like the ending. "Xena, I already told you none of the Gods interest me. I'd choose you every time." The scene by the campfire is especially important and necessary.

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

damn, moments like these i do want a reboot 😭

or at least a person who can write to do a fanfic

it was an honor working with you on this 🤝

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I get it, I personally don't want a reboot, but bc there are so many more adventures Xena and Gabrielle could've gone on, I long for what could've been. Oh well 😭😭

This show found me in a difficult time in my life, so it's only fair that I try to write some fanfic about it. A comedy would be nice, but it's not my first choice.

Likewise! Ty for the team effort! 🫡

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Yep, the death of the Xenaverse.

I would've preferred if they continued to explore Greek mythology, too. It's another reason why the ending is abhorrent.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I guess they were trying to embrace various types of mythologies outside of Ancient Greece - but it was a mixed bag.

After a while, it became too complicated anyway.

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lapniappe@reddit

I did like Hercules travelling and discovering the Druids, the Norse gods and Sumeria's gods - basically showing how they were all somewhat similar in mythology.

I mean I was a kid back then - so really not following the media exactly, but i never got the hint on the DVD interviews etc (and they were all pretty open on there) that they did Neo Christianity because of the US audience etc, if I remember rightly it was really just more it felt like a natural progression near the end

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I completely forgot about David!

I love Gabby, but she fell for the same charade like 4 times?! 😭

Xena was always the skeptical one. I wonder how differently things would have played out if Gabrielle had gradually recognized the bull of Eli's Way of Love, with Xena going along with it for the sake of their daughter.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Agreed. Gabrielle could've dealt w/ the loss of her blood innocence better had it not been for everything that encompassed the experience. But we'll never fully know since some of it depends on what was planned for her character then, as you pointed out.

Despite everything she went through, Gabrielle still openly pursued a spiritual quest. While I have my reservations about Eli and the God of Light, it probably still would've happened without the whole pacifist thing, though.

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Jahon_Dony@reddit

I always thought this was about Gabi's "first kill." Wasn't it?

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Yep, my question concerns how differently her first kill could've gone if she hadn't been tricked into killing Meridian.

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Jahon_Dony@reddit

It would've been somebody else entirely. Could've been an interesting traumatic episode where she hits a bread thief on the head that was just trying to get food, then he dies of a concussion and she has to cope with that. Gabi maybe didn't kill as often, but I'm sure she caused a lot of brain / head injuries with her rod.

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Evilbuffy14@reddit

Blasted Britannia and their weird cults. Had to ruin everything.

Hate to say it, but this is one time Xena should have left Gabrielle at home. I mean, look what happened?

If she hadn't lost it when and how she did, we may not have got the India arc. Or at least it may have moved along the timeline. I think it would have been far better to have her lose it for Xena; as in, to protect her or save her or something similar. It would have shown visually Gabrielle's devotion. But, we didn't. I think it definitely would have happened in Ides Of March, regardless.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I think we would've gotten the India arc regardless - just to a lesser degree. Gabrielle wouldn't have become a pacifist imo.

But I could see her venturing into the healing arts to combat the killings she both witnesses and participates in.

S4, as it is, though, is very romantic bc Gabrielle still shows up for Xena despite the vision of their deaths looming over them. So, it's a crucial testament to her devotion to Xena when Gabrielle breaks her vow of pacifism to save her beloved because a life without Xena is simply not worth living.

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Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit

She probably would have killed the roman soldier in A Good Day and saved Phlanagus, and possibly even spared Temecula from losing his blood innocence.

If that had been the case, Gabrielle still would have felt bad about cutting down a random soldier in battle. She might take some solace in knowing that she fought in a war for freedom and protected her allies, which is likely what she initially thought might happen when she first chose to follow xena and become a warrior wandering around Greece solving conflicts for peaceful villagers.

This is very different from what occured in The Deliverer - killing a priestess in a foreign land, thinking she was saving a friend after already being decieved into joining a sinister religious circle, not to mention all the dire, far reaching consequences that followed, unleashing Dahak and Hope onto the world.

I don't think season 4 would have played out much differently, but season 3 would have lost some of its bite.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I would've preferred this.

It provides more structure in Gabrielle's evolution as a warrior. Yet, S3 pulled all the stops to ensure a major rift between Xena and Gabrielle, so I can't picture it happening any other way.

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ObnoxiousConsistent@reddit

this was my first thought too!

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reo_reborn@reddit

Really good question! I think the Same tbh. I think Xena at some point would have got in trouble and Gabrielle would have gone berserk with a weapon in the same way. I do love that scene.

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Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit

It's good and even more satisfying because it's the payoff after sooooo long.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

I thought her pivot into a life of pacifism was more of a reaction to the trauma she experienced rather than an entirely logical one. By this point, Gabrielle understands sharing a life w/ Xena means being around violence and bloodshed, so it didn't make sense for her to continue to be with her.

I would've loved it if she had been given more of a chance to be a healer, it makes so much sense given her kind nature and storytelling abilities. What a waste. It's also particularly disheartening, considering how heavy the burden of killing weighs on her soul, so becoming a healer would've been more respectful for her character, I think.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Thank you! I think some of the Dahak stuff was unnecessary.

I'm curious how Xena would've taken it. Imo, X+G didn't talk nearly enough about this.

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Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit

I disliked that scene at the time because it doesn't even seem that deliberate or out of anger and I'm not sure it should have really "counted." I would have rather had her wrestle with this in the Calysto arc. After Perdicus I could see her feeling like she needed to do something, particularly if Calysto was still coming back to take more from them (Joxer, Cyrene, he'll Argo). Calysto and Gabrielle are interesting foils to me.

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Ok_Kangaroo_2160@reddit (OP)

Gabrielle was stripped of a lot of her agency when she fell for Khrafstar's trap. So, it's completely valid to question if her first kill even counts.

You're absolutely right - it would've been pretty interesting if Gabrielle continued to struggle w/ her desire to kill Callisto throughout S2. I, too, was intrigued by the contrast between Callisto and Gabrielle. I think Callisto envied her innocence, while Gabrielle loathed everything she symbolized in Xena's past, but, weirdly, she didn't even try to believe she could change as Xena did. I'm referring to the events from S1, not S2.

But imagine if Gabrielle were the one who held the power to let Callisto live/die in the quicksand?