Do you think there is a phenomenon of reverse American exceptionalism where some Americans view the United States as the worst country in the world? Why or why not?
Posted by Fine-Photograph673@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 77 comments
mustang6172@reddit
They prefer to be called "progressives."
Paul721@reddit
Sadly a lot of human thought has devolved into the idea that everything is black or white, good or bad, with no possibility of nuance in between. Any rational person knows that at any given time America is great at some things, maybe even “best” and lacking in other areas.
Not just in this area but in general popular human thought is now just a dichotomy, with no comprehension of the in between. When in reality nothing is black or white but various shades of grey.
kindof_Alexanderish@reddit
American living abroad. No affordable healthcare = shithole country.
Impressive_Star_3454@reddit
I think that people who were born and raised here should speak to people from other countries who want to live here permanently to see how fortunate they are. There is a reason why millions of people from around the world want to come here and take their shot at the Aemrican Dream.
It comes down to a willingness to hustle and work hard even if you can't speak the language. Wherever you come from in the world, there is a community of people from your culture who are willingly to help you out. My full time job is pretty much nothing but immigrants, and they just put the work in and get it done.
Otherwise-OhWell@reddit
Looks like circle jerks are back on the menu boys!
TyraNotBanks5@reddit
Yes, I think so. I find myself guilty of this thinking more times than I’d like to admit. It’s really easy to fall down these American doomerism pipelines without realizing. This country certainly has issues and I’m definitely not patriotic but it’s not the worst country ever and when we act like it is, it’s harder for us as a nation to strive to be better since you’re stuck in the mindset of “What’s the point? America sucks and is too far gone anyway”. Hopefully this makes sense lol
soap---poisoning@reddit
Yes, some people have been brainwashed to believe that the U.S. is the worst country in all of human history. They downplay all the good things about this country and magnify all its failures.
Also, they have this strange obsession with comparing the U.S. to small European countries. “People in _ only have to work five minutes a week because they all live on unicorn glitter provided by their socialist government. They get 3 years of paid leave when they adopt a pet. It’s totally fine for them to leave their babies out in the snow while they swim naked in a hot spring with their relatives. Why isn’t America like that?”
Oahiz@reddit
Counterpoint: the opposite side has the same weird obsession. "If people in N.Korea referred to their leader as Cheeto in Chief they get tarred, feathered, and strung up by their pinky toes. Why don't you appreciate your freedoms!?!?"
Out of the two, the wealthiest country in the history of the planet aspiring to match its quality of life to "Unicorn powered bliss" makes more sense than just accepting its failures as inevitable because "it could be worse."
For the actual prompt though, no. No one arguing in good faith believes the U.S. is "the worst" country or has anywhere close to the worst quality of life. Anything suggesting so is either a bot or trying to sell you something.
Tillandz@reddit
I think it's partially the fault of dead internet theory and astroturfing. A lot of the initial commentary is started as propaganda from states at odds with the US. Bots are programmed to disseminate the same message.
Going on Twitter or whatever other hellhole, seeing ridiculous posts with responses agreeing with the initial statement made me realize at some point what was going on. Of course "you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth."
It doesn't help that America is a global hegemony, and our news narrative is meant to incense to sell headlines, and then foreigners only see it in that lens.
_Algrm_@reddit
Have you considered that maybe America really wasn’t ever “great” or “exceptional” and people are simply waking up to the true nature of the beast?
When was America great? Were they exceptional when they played a critical role in the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and establishment of the Zionist colony in 1948?
Or were they exceptional when they provided money, weapons, intelligence and political cover to the Israel as they committed the Gaza Genocide?
Or were they exceptional when they killed millions of Vietnamese? saying that “a communist Vietnam would be a threat to America” well guess what the US withdrew and Vietnam fell to communism guess what nothing happened and in fact many Americans go for vacations retirement today.
Don’t get me started on the 800000+ Iraqis killed or Afghanistan I could go on and on and on all day.
Thunderclapsasquatch@reddit
Marshall plan, moon landing, Kosovo intervention, Human Genome Project, PEPFAR, Smallpox eradication was led by an American, the Ebola Crisis, 2004 tsunami relief, airlifting supplies to West Berlin. Now how about we talk about a really nasty nation it's been comitting a genocide for nearly a century now and somewhat recently started a new one. No, not Israel this time but China! The cultural genocide of the Tibetans and Uyghurs is overlooked constantly
_Algrm_@reddit
Looool typical American propaganda.
You wanna talk about the Uyghur muslims? Sure let’s talk about the Uyghur.
The fact that the US had Uyghur muslims abducted and locked in GUANTANAMO BAY and tortured for 10+ years.
Exactly NONE of the Uyghur muslims detained at Guantanamo Bay were ever indicted, charged with a crime, or brought to trial.
Lol American propaganda.
Thunderclapsasquatch@reddit
The 'Sinicization" programs are no different than the boarding schools used by the USA and Canada to attempt to eradicate indigenous american culture, my culture
I've been quite vocal about it my entire adult life
So this justifies the genocide in China how?
sourmysoup@reddit
Ikr. The comment you're replying to is ridiculous. People are becoming more educated about how horrible this country is and if it takes bots to accomplish people learning basic facts about the US and it's history, then good.
EngineVarious5244@reddit
Beep boop
Ok-commuter-4400@reddit
Agreed, with the added layer that social media drives addiction by increasing the visibility of controversial and especially outraging content. So the bots start this crap, then humans reject it, so more and more humans see and comment on it, and it gets sent to the front page so it feels mainstream rather than a fringe opinion. As long as you engage with the content, even as little as pausing your scroll just to eyeroll, the algorithms know to boost it.
No_Button_1750@reddit
Excellent summary.
EngineVarious5244@reddit
Absolutely, lol, and Reddit is like the headquarters.
Few_Recognition_5253@reddit
I think Bluesky is worse ngl
Thunderclapsasquatch@reddit
I dunno, when I look at my comment insights I see a ton of views out of India for things that shouldnt be all that controversial but get downvoted to hell
Lily_Lanee@reddit
Some Americans grow up hearing the U.S. is the greatest country on earth, so when they see its failures, healthcare costs, crime, political chaos, inequality, bad foreign policy.. they swing to the opposite extreme and act like it’s the worst place ever. That’s still exceptionalism, just in reverse, because it assumes the U.S. has to be either uniquely amazing or uniquely awful
hardworkinglatinx@reddit
Yes. America is objectively the best country.
IReplyWithLebowski@reddit
For whom?
DharmaCub@reddit
And we've reached stupid in the other direction now. Congrats.
MukadeYada@reddit
Oh, absolutely. Look, it's Star Wars mentality. When the powerful empire marches its troops into the less technologically advanced village, it's easy to point at the empire and say "Okay obviously those are the bad guys."
DharmaCub@reddit
Are you implying the Empire weren't the bad guys?
IReplyWithLebowski@reddit
Or that the Ewoks weren’t the good guys?
ArtDecoNewYork@reddit
It's oikophobia promoted by places like Twitter
EagleCatchingFish@reddit
Yeah. Tankies are a good example of that.
stormy2587@reddit
I mean I don’t think any sane person thinks the US is the worst country in the world. But I think a lot of people correctly realize we enjoy a lot less freedom than less wealthy countries and often make life needlessly hard for people.
I also think there are areas where the US is exceptional that half the population seems dead set on undoing by waging a culture war where prideful ignorance has been weaponized.
Realtrain@reddit
I dunno, I've seen plenty of serious "third world country with a Gucci belt" takes online at least.
TeensyKook@reddit
Those people have either never set foot in a developing country or never set foot in the US.
As someone who was born and has lived in several “third world” countries, I can tell you as a matter of fact those takes come from either ignorance or privilege.
gummibearhawk@reddit
Yes, that's most of Reddit
UpbeatPhilosophySJ@reddit
lol of course. 80% of Reddit
Kit_the_Human@reddit
I've long thought that this is the case. If we can't be the best at things, we have to be the worst.
We had SLAVERY. UNEQUAL RIGHTS. Our country was founded on GENOCIDE. Our founding fathers were a DISGRACE. Our history is SHAMEFUL. We're ruining the WORLD. Etc. You've probably heard these and other rants.
Like pretty much every country and imperial power has been the same, especially in the New World. Yet we love to embrace the negatives, sometimes with such vehemence that it makes me wonder if people think the US is totally unique and special in it's depravity, something unlike the world has ever seen? It seems kind of like some sort of distorted exceptionalism.
Idk what I'm saying might be controversial. I can forsee a lot of downvotes for this tbh. But, just my perception of ourselves, anyway. I'll put it out there.
thewholetruthis@reddit
There absolutely is, and it’s driven by visibility bias, cultural self-criticism that is baked into society, selective comparisons to homogenous countries which have their own flaws, political polarization, and online identity signaling.
The USA has many problems that shouldn’t be ignored, but some people focus only on the negative and end up hating life when they could be enjoying it a bit more.
Illustrious-Owl-2755@reddit
This is exactly right, well said.
johndaylight@reddit
yes, especially on reddit but not as common in person
Lopjing@reddit
I think it's just a "grass is always greener" mentality that people fall into because they're terminally online and only see all the problems in the US that don't exist in other countries. The problem is that everywhere has its own societal issues that most Americans are unaware of because they spend all their time fixating on what they don't have rather than what they do have, which is quite a lot when you think about it. People who say the US is a third world country have likely never been to a country where you can't drink the tap water without becoming violently ill, or where there's no running water at all.
There are countries run by dictators who at any given moment are fending off at least five different rebel groups, who are all at war with the other rebel groups and regularly go around massacring each other's villages and forcing the kids to become child soldiers; but people in the US have to pay high medical bills if they break a bone, so the US is clearly a third world country. Sure our healthcare system needs improvement and it would be nice to not lose your life savings over a heart attack, but if that's the worst problem we have as a society we're doing relatively well overall. It's all about perspective.
cguess@reddit
Visit Berlin and talk to Americans there. By far the most insufferable "America is always the worst despite AfD being a significant political force the US is the only country with fascist elements" ex pats.
John-Dune-Awakening@reddit
Obviously, you see it all over the place on reddit.
vendettaclause@reddit
Can't we acknowledge both that Americas not a bad place, but its still slowly going to shit because of unregulated capitalism and rampant propaganda against anything progressive?
With this current administration being the most egregious at misuse of power and status, bribery, market manipulation, and weaponization of money through taxes and terriffs.
NegotiationStatus727@reddit
Well it’s not really reverse American exceptionalism as exceptionally good and exceptionally bad are both exceptional. There are a lot of comments on the internet that claim America is somehow exceptionally bad but I think most are bots. The rest are people who profoundly lack perspective.
But one camp looking at like gender equality and saying we are better than Afghanistan and the other saying we are worse than Sweden and both pretending their claim makes us exceptional aren’t having a useful conversation.
Illustrious-Owl-2755@reddit
An immigrant here (from another developed country), and this is definitely something that I noticed. It might be my bubble, but it's pretty common that Americans think that the US politicians are especially corrupt, or think that systemic racism is a uniquely American phenomenon, that the US school education is worse than other places, etc.
From my experience with both my home country and other foreigners, other places have the same societal problems, though they manifest differently (like there are different demographics that experience the systemic racism, such as Roma people or Muslims). People in other places just worry about it less. They don't have this permanent level of racism-related discussion, like George Floyd, "driving while Black", Black History Month, etc. So in many regards, the US society is healthier than other places, but most people lack the point of reference.
I'd also argue that it's not reverse exceptionalism, it's just normal exceptionalism -- people believe that they should be better.
SteadfastEnd@reddit
Sure there are. There are some far-leftists known as "tankies" who basically criticize America for everything but give other nations a free pass for the same behavior. They will excuse the worst atrocities done by Iran, Russia, China, North Korea but vehemently bash the USA for anything wrong, indeed, they will even say that anything bad done by North Korea or Russia is BECAUSE of something America did.
CocktailCowboy@reddit
Wow, that's crazy. Can you point me towards any sources where leftists defend the actions of North Korea?
DharmaCub@reddit
r/tankie
CocktailCowboy@reddit
Huh. Just checked it out, and searched the sub plus "North Korea". The only thing I could find was an obvious satire post. Do you have anything else that might show leftists defending the actions of North Korea? Sorry if I'm coming off as skeptical, but it would just strike me as odd if politically leftist people were out here defending the actions of a country that might as well be the poster child of unchecked extreme right policy making...
BidenGlazer@reddit
r/movingtonorthkorea
No_Button_1750@reddit
🤯
masonic-youth@reddit
Lol I've never seen that sub before looks like a circlejerk using liberal tears
President-Lonestar@reddit
r/MovingtoNorthKorea also got hijacked by tankies
CocktailCowboy@reddit
"Reverse" American Exceptionalism? I doubt it. At least, I don't have any reason to believe that a reverse of that particular strain of propaganda is being taught in American grade schools, unlike the dogma that many of us were raised to believe. However, do I think a not-insignificant number of Americans grow up to discover that a lot of the myths pushed by the doctrine of American Exceptionalism and the false premise of the "American Dream" are completely untrue, and feel a deep amount of resentment over that? Absolutely. Can you blame them?
La_noche_azul@reddit
A lot of it comes from privileged suburban young adults(Reddits specialty) all of the first gen Americans I know understand how good we have it. Relatively speaking of course.
RektInTheHed@reddit
Yes, foreigners who don't know any better accept anything our crooked leadership dumps on them. Natural born Americans expect their country to improve because they feel a sense of ownership
La_noche_azul@reddit
You’d fail anywhere, come to terms with that. I mean you as an individual, your type.
Landwarrior5150@reddit
Isn’t this a contradiction?
RektInTheHed@reddit
And you'll sit here and tell us the virtues of half a cock up your ass instead of a whole dry one.
EngineVarious5244@reddit
Shut your Reddit ass up omg
Secure_Fly_444@reddit
Yes I do believe that there is some kind of reverse American exceptionalism going on right now. I don’t have an issue with people criticizing the U.S. but it sometimes feels like some Americans treat other countries as if they’re perfect while also portraying the U.S. as uniquely terrible. I think it’s also popular to just hate on the U.S. in general.
Different_Cherry8326@reddit
Yes, it is played out her on Reddit every day again and again.
Americans are so used to the freedom and prosperity that we enjoy here and can’t imagine that a) not everyone in the world has those things and b) things have not always been this way and c) people struggled greatly and endured severe hardships to attain what we have today.
Certainly the US remains far from perfect, but I think it’s easy for people who have never experienced anything else to focus on the negatives.
the-quibbler@reddit
American exceptionalism doesn't mean America is good. It means it's exceptional, or unlike anything else. Now, most people do think America is good, but that's not what the phrase means.
msh0082@reddit
Well you have a lot of them here on Reddit.
I'm of the opinion where we're not the worst in the world by far and we're not the best, but one of the greatest places to live with some areas of improvement needed.
pokeysyd@reddit
No rational person would think the US is the worst country in the world. There are plenty of people who are not proud of their country currently. There are plenty just focused on surviving. There are plenty ecstatic with the way things are going.
LibrarianofBabel1127@reddit
Outright hate? Maybe some. What's more common is an ethnocentric stance called "reversal," where cultural differences are viewed through an us v. them lens; however, the other culture is extolled and idealized instead of one's own. The Intercultural Development Inventory (IDI) has a succinct explanation https://www.idiinventory.com/idc on their website.
duke_awapuhi@reddit
Certainly seems to be the case, and very few of those people have actually been outside the US. Most of them barely leave their room
cevapi-rakija-repeat@reddit
Yes, essentially far leftists that watch Hasan Piker all day and don’t realize how good they actually have it. Is America perfect? Far from it, especially right now. But these people complaining the loudest and longing for some kind of Marxist system have never known real poverty, have never actually even visited a country similar to how they want America to be, let alone lived there, and probably haven’t even traveled at all to see that there are other liberal democracies out there that are much better examples of what we should aspire to in terms of making improvements.
Tasty_Cardiologist53@reddit
There are those who jadedly see the United States as less of a "free and fair" country and more of an LLC instead. This has nothing to do with the foundation of this country or its principles but more of how easy it has become to exploit it. Simply looking at how much of our tax money leaves this country on an annual basis should enrage every American, as an unknown (but I'm guessing significant chunk) is being laundered by the ultra wealthy. This I understand.
Then you have younger naive people (my generation) who proclaim to hate America simply because its trendy to do so. Moreover, they've grown up in a time and place where one doesnt need to struggle as much as a 2nd or 3rd world citizen does. Deep down they feel guilty about this, how safe their lives are and how soft their hands have remained. So now they feel they are the rebellion in Star Wars, spouting nonsense no one should take seriously. I could go on but I will refrain.
Flashy-Specific-4083@reddit
I believe we live in one of the best nations in the world but we do have serious faults.
SnooHabits6008@reddit
I think there’s people with reverse exceptionalism on some problems we have and think it’s only uniquely American or any problem is 100% always our fault in a different country.This comes down to not knowing other countries cultures and history that much tbh.
GreatestState@reddit
It’s easy to hate Americans lol. And that is because the American people, for the most part, have an entire different version of right and wrong than most of these totalitarian governments overseas. It really is an entire different vision of what the world should be. Nonetheless I’m proud to be an American and I thank God I was born here.
ObjectiveElefant@reddit
Thinking it’s the worst country in the world would be objectively delusional. That being said, yes.
sugarbush03@reddit
I at least know the USA is not the “best”
Highlifetallboy@reddit
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
EverySingleMinute@reddit
Yes, we see it often from people that identify as liberal. You can find numerous comments on Reddit stating those beliefs.
They support communists, dictators and kings then claim the citizens of those countries have more rights than we do.
It is actually quite shocking.
RaspberryLanky7905@reddit
don't confuse leftists with liberals.
ClickClick_Boom@reddit
I think a lot of Europeans have a chip on their shoulder and an inferiority complex.