Does the story of the three little pigs land differently in America?
Posted by Ok_Writing_1520@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 138 comments
First off, I know that not all houses in America are made of wood, and that a wooden house can be better than brick depending on the situation. This isn’t about that.
When I was little the story had one buying straw, one buying wood and the third buying bricks. All the houses look good, but only one is strong. The message is - it’s best to take the time to do a thing right.
It’s also basically unheard of to have a wooden house here. Since many houses in America are made of wood, I can imagine a child looking at the beautiful little wooden cottage and thinking “that looks like my/my friend’s house”. Obviously nobody wants to suggest families in those homes are inferior in some way. Is the story altered for cultural context?
madelmire@reddit
The thing is that most little kids probably don't know what houses are made of at the age that this fable would be relevant to them.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
That’s interesting. Here every preschooler knows that houses are made of bricks. Obviously also timber frames for internal walls, plaster board etc that they don’t think about. But if you ask a 4 year old what houses are made of, they will say bricks unless they happen to live in a stone cottage or something (but that’s a very small number, and they would probably still tell you that other people’s houses are made of bricks).
madelmire@reddit
If you ask a child in America what their house is made of and they're standing in a brick house, then they will tell you it's a brick house.
But a generic "house" could be made of different materials so you're going to get a lot of different answers. Brick, drywall, wood, plaster, siding, stone, adobe, etc.
I don't know if a 4-year-old understands what drywall is, for example. They might know that houses have a wooden frame but that doesn't mean that they understand all the materials in between that wooden frame and what you touch.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Yes, it’s cool you have so much more variety than we do so there’s no “standard” answer. Here it’s like they would learn that eggs come from chickens. It’s the default standard answer, even though other options do exist.
RektInTheHed@reddit
Why don't the Japanese ever get this question?
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Because I didn’t want to assume they had the same traditional tales. I imagine they have their own folk stories.
RektInTheHed@reddit
All right: America had and has large forests making wood cheap as a building material, and wooden fortifications and blockhouses were strong enough to keep out enemies from Frenchmen to American Indians to Mexicans to Confederates at various times. So they are probably reasonably wolf-proof since I've never heard of a fatal wolf attack via destruction of a wooden structure in American history.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
You seem to feel I was being derogatory but I never questioned the validity of wood as a building material, or the quality of American housing. I literally stated that it can be a better choice than brick and that I know a variety of materials are used in America.
I questioned a traditional tale which, in the version I grew up with, promoted a negative attitude towards wood. American culture has fixed that by featuring a stick shelter rather than a wooden house, emphasising shoddy construction rather than the material used. That answered my question.
beenoc@reddit
People are getting defensive because "Why do Americans build weak houses out of flimsy wood, instead of indestructible brick houses like we do in MyCountry? Are Americans stupid or just ignorant of how much better brick houses are?" is a common question we get here.
You can see how your question can come across as "There is a fairy tale that says wood houses are terrible and bad. Do Americans understand this fairy tale, or are they too surrounded by terrible wood houses to truly comprehend it?"
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Where what I actually asked was “there’s a fairy tale that implies that wood is a poor construction choice, which we all know is untrue. Have you found a way to remove that implication and respect that wood is a perfectly good option?”
TheBimpo@reddit
Or Scandinavians, or Germans, or anywhere else that has wood-framed buildings.
SevenSixOne@reddit
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kirobaito88@reddit
When I learned it, the second pig made a house "made of sticks," which is a different connotation than "made of wood."
But I grew up in a brick house, so I never thought about it otherwise.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Like a stick den a child might build? That is definitely very different to the pictures we had, of a snug little cottage with a chimney and a wall round it and everything!
ENovi@reddit
Yeah, if I remember right a children’s book I had as a kid had the house looking like a bunch of twigs and branches barely held together with several gaps through which you could see inside. Picture something akin to a bird’s nest built in the shape of a house or, as my dad eloquently described it, a house “built out of a bunch of bullshit from his yard!”
TwinkieDad@reddit
What did the straw house look like? Because you can make a good house out of straw too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw-bale_construction
WhatABeautifulMess@reddit
Do you think a significant portion of Americans live in log cabins?
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
lol, no! Of course not. But houses with visible wood cladding on the outside seem to be common in some areas.
Adjective-Noun123456@reddit
You know that's just sliding, right? And it's usually not even real wood.
WhatABeautifulMess@reddit
Not really, in my experience, and preschoolers aren’t really up on construction style and materials (beyond a almost universal love for big trucks)
dragonsteel33@reddit
Yeah I typically picture it as a log cabin on the crappier end of the spectrum. Which is a very different thing than the kind of timber build that’s common in the US
kirobaito88@reddit
Yes, I imagined little more than a collection of twigs that could hypothetically support some weight (more than straw, anyway).
ITrCool@reddit
I heard it both ways. Sticks or wood. 🪵
thatlookslikemydog@reddit
Look at Mr. Commodore with his brick house.
kirobaito88@reddit
If we didn’t have a brick house to build there’d have been no work for our servants!
mrggy@reddit
Where I grew up a lot of timber frame houses had brick facades, so as kids we assumed they were made of bricks the whole way through. My house had a stone facade, so I thought my house was made of stones
SirCharlito44@reddit
Same here. Straw, sticks, and brick. Sometimes he ate the pigs other times they ran to the next one’s house until they got to brick.
danhm@reddit
"Wooden" houses in America look like this. They look like this and this and this. They aren't dilapidated shacks.
Innuendo64_@reddit
You overestimate how much analysis we put into The Three Little Pigs
ChameleonCoder117@reddit
I've literally never thought of that story since i was 7.
TapTheForwardAssist@reddit
There has been some scholarship on the subject by the bands Green Jello and Insane Clown Posse.
beardiac@reddit
The Green Jello song is going to be in my head for the rest of the day now.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
As it should be.
splorp_evilbastard@reddit
With guest vocals by Maynard James Keenan from tool. And Les Claypool. And Pauly Shore.
kidtire@reddit
Little Pig, Little Pig, LET ME IN!
GOTaSMALL1@reddit
Yerna get sued!
thatlookslikemydog@reddit
And how Rambo ties into the story.
B_A_Beder@reddit
Because of Homestuck
Great_Chipmunk4357@reddit
Yes. I spent years in therapy!
GreenBeanTM@reddit
So are we now learning that the constant “American houses are bad” posts are because Europeans never learned anything about construction outside of the 3 little pigs?
Cause that’s what I’m hearing every time OP replies saying their illustrations just show a normal fucking house with the phrase “a house made out of sticks”
rawbface@reddit
What was the R-value on the little pig's insulation?
devnullopinions@reddit
In my songs fairy tale book it’s a house made of sticks.
JoeMorgue@reddit
Do you think wooden frame construction and "sticks" are the same thing in your country?
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
No. But the second pig here build what looks like a sturdy wooden house, not a pile of sticks.
TumbleFairbottom@reddit
I don’t know why you’re being dishonest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Little_Pigs
It’s always a house of sticks.
atomfullerene@reddit
I suspect other countries may use a generic term for wood when telling the story.
Hoosier_Jedi@reddit
JFC, why will people not let up on American homes being mostly made of wood?
Crayshack@reddit
I've always seen it told with the second house being made of sticks instead of wood. When it's drawn, the house isn't shown as a log cabin or a house framed with sturdy lumber, but more a bunch of twigs piled haphazardly into a vaguely house shape. This is a good example of how I often see them drawn.
devilscabinet@reddit
Yep, that is how it is usually depicted in the U.S. It isn't solid logs or wood planks, it is sticks or twigs.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
In my childhood books it was usually shown as a solid house, either log cabin or planks. I suspect that’s the difference, which makes sense.
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
You know what a brick house does? Make great projectiles. English homes got hit with a messily f-1 or 2 and looked like the Battle of Britain
Bluemonogi@reddit
I grew up in tornado alley in wood frame houses. Most people had similar house construction. In no way do they resemble a stick house from the story of the 3 little pigs. I never thought about it at all as a kid. We also didn’t have wolves roaming the neighborhood trying to eat us.
machagogo@reddit
no, because they aren't made out of twigs.
You know timber frame houses isn't unique to the US right?
Insert typical copypasta of earthquake hitting Germany and wiping out entire cities of indesteructabel stone houses.
PistachioPerfection@reddit
"Beautiful little wooden cottage" 😂
The house across the street from me is for sale. It's a 3,000sf A-frame (made of wood) and they're asking just under 800k.
But I'm not sure I even know what you're talking about lol
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
The wooden houses in the story didn’t look all that inferior in my childhood story books. It looked like a lovely little wooden cottage, with a solid roof, chimney, wall round the garden. Made of solid logs or planks rather than flimsy sticks. Does that make more sense?
PistachioPerfection@reddit
It does! The pictures in your book must have been much different than the ones in mine. They didn't look like anything I may have seen in real life.
HorseFeathersFur@reddit
Sigh. So tired of this topic. Op, we build homes out of a combination of many materials, just like in lots of other countries. Whoda think?
Go to the eastern US and you’ll see more homes built out of brick. Go to the western US and find that brick is not used because it shatters in an earthquake, although many homes in California use stucco as a siding material, but you won’t see stucco hardly at all in the southern US.
Go to New Mexico and parts of Arizona, and check out all of the homes built out of adobe.
House building materials are regional, and are acclimated for the types of natural disasters that the region experiences, such as earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, dust storms, heat, snow, humidity, tidal waves, etc.
The story of the three Little pigs in the US is the same as it is in Europe. Why would we change that?🙄🙄🙄
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Apparently it isn’t the same. Yours tends to depict a stick shelter or flimsy shack, where ours showed solid looking wooden houses.
A child reading my childhood books would likely get the impression that wood is an unwise choice for a house, since the wooden house looks just as good as the brick one but isn’t. That seems unfair given that wood (or straw, done right) can be a better choice than brick. As it’s more culturally relevant in a place that uses a wide range of materials more commonly, I wondered if that context made a difference since you wouldn’t want to suggest wood is a substandard material or an unwise choice. It does make a difference - you typically show a stick shelter.
I did not say American houses were inferior in any way, or that you don’t use brick.
anneofgraygardens@reddit
I think the telling and retelling of this story in the US is strongly influenced by the Disney animation of the fairy tale from 1933. Here's what the wood house looks like there (should open right on the wood house). This looks like a shack, not like a well-built home.
DanteRuneclaw@reddit
The story is typically told using "sticks" rather than "wood". And it's illustrated more like a shack made by tying sticks together, not siding and plywood nailed onto a frame of 2x4s.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Makes sense
macoafi@reddit
I never saw it illustrated with lumber like a house is built out of. Rather, it was a pile of twigs balanced precariously.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
I don’t know how to share a photo, but in my story books it was a solid little cottage. With a chimney, a solid door and windows, wooden wall around the garden. Not just a stick shelter. I suspect that’s the cultural difference!
Deep_Contribution552@reddit
We usually say the second house was built of “sticks” not just wood generally. To us it’s a story about taking your time to do something right, not about the proper building materials for a house. You’re right that millions of American homes are wood-framed, and yet the US gets far more tornadoes and hurricanes than Europe, and many of those homes mostly survive their encounter with high winds. Seeing a fairy tale as a reference to modern home construction betrays a lack of knowledge about how well modern engineers and architects understand the capabilities and limitations of the materials.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
I don’t see it that way, and I did try to say that I understood that wooden houses can be excellent and a better choice than brick. I am not knocking wooden houses.
But there’s a cultural context to a book that equates a wooden cabin with “lazy” and “unprepared”. As you tend to make it more of a stick shelter that makes the point without suggesting wooden houses are bad.
OceanPoet87@reddit
No adaptation is needed. As you said the actual materials are used as an example rather than a profound statement that brick is always better than wood. Of course straw is seen as weak here but the point is the effort.
An example from the Bible is given comparing a man who had a house on the sand vs on a rock. Does that mean you can't ever build on a beach? No. Like the Pigs, it isn't always a literal only answer.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Of course, in my childhood version the second pig is shown with saw and nails constructing a wooden cabin. But it takes a day in comparison to the week it takes to build the brick house - showing harder work for the third pig.
Making the house a stick shelter gets the point across while respecting that wooden houses are also perfectly good.
dingusdong420@reddit
Huh? Why would it be altered?
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
I didn’t say they were. As I said, in my story books the second pig built a “cabin in the woods” style wooden house.
It seems a flimsy stick shelter is the alteration.
OneNerdyLesbian@reddit
If you look at the older versions of the story, they usually use "furze" which is a type of shrub with thin branches that wouldn't be sturdy. That's why it often gets switched to "twigs" in modern versions.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Interesting! I’d never heard of furze so I looked it up and we call it gorse, which would definitely make a truly rubbish shelter!
OneNerdyLesbian@reddit
The word "furze" isn't used in the US either. We don't even have the plant here. I believe the word is outdated. Like I said, that's why it gets changed to "twigs" in modern versions.
JoeMorgue@reddit
"Our houses are made of paper, we have shitty cheese, and our beer is water" is all literally every foreigner knows about America it seems.
triple_hit_blow@reddit
Sometimes it’s written/told as “house made of sticks” instead of a “house made of wood”
CountryMaleficent439@reddit
I remember that way too.
When my husband and I we went to apply for a loan for our house, the banker asked if it was stick built. My husband and I were confused by that term. We don't have many brick built houses where we live. I think my husband said something like, "Well It's not built from straw." This was before wide use of the internet and long before iPhones so we could not easily look it up and did not know that stick built was a common term for one framed and built onsite rather than manufactured. We thought she was a little nuts.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Definitely a different thing.
BigNorseWolf@reddit
But the wolf is an endangered species here and the pigs are just bacon. We should help that wolf get lunch
happy-lil-accidents-@reddit
I’m sorry… JUST bacon..?
DanteRuneclaw@reddit
also ham, sausage, and porkchops!
BigNorseWolf@reddit
bacon and pigs snout?
SnapHackelPop@reddit
Why would a kid think a house is like theirs if it doesn’t look the same on the outside
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Because in my picture books it did? Or if not a wood clad house then at least like a nice little solid wooden cabin, like you see as holiday homes on American TV.
Medium_Sized_Brow@reddit
The "American houses are all made of wood" thing only exists out of necessity in certain areas. On the East Coast where Im from, you see tons of brick.
Areas that get tornadoes and extreme wind though brick houses are death sentences.
We dont over analyze a children's tale because the message is still the same.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
I know, I was just curious if the cultural context meant it was altered at all. Apparently it seems your stories emphasise a flimsy stick shelter, where ours tended to show a seemingly solid wooden house.
Medium_Sized_Brow@reddit
Yeah thats probably the main difference then Id say. I definitely remember it being made of twigs and skinny sticks in my books although its been like 25 years since I read them
jvc1011@reddit
Earthquakes, too. Bricks basically crumble.
Medium_Sized_Brow@reddit
Forgot about that one!
Waisted-Desert@reddit
I learned it as straw, sticks, and bricks. Depictions were more like a bundle of kindling as opposed to a wood frame house.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/goddess_spiral/5727355606/
jodadami@reddit
Here it's usually a house of sticks instead of wood, which I guess easier to imagine being blown down.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Much easier
AQuixoticQuandary@reddit
I always thought the second pigs house was made out of sticks (aka bad, flimsy wood)
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Yes, big difference to the solid wooden cottage in my childhood books.
beardiac@reddit
This is how I remember it too - it's not a solid house of 2x4s and plywood, but just a hut made of rough sticks. I feel the wolf blowing it down cements the flimsy state of the wood used.
kosk11348@reddit
We were just happy not to be the children who had to live in straw houses.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Fair point!
syncopatedchild@reddit
No, the second house is made of a bunch of sticks leaned against each other, it isn't a wood-frame house built to modern code.
Far-Drawing-4444@reddit
It lands differently because we realize the story is allegory, and not actually a critique of construction methods.
NekoArtemis@reddit
We typically say the second pig used sticks, which aren't the kind of wood you'd want to build a house out of.
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
Makes sense
JustATyson@reddit
You're thinking way too much into it. I'm not gonna say "no kid thought that," because that's statistically unlikely. But, I will say that most kids will understand the difference between an unsturdy, sloppy stick house and a sturdy wood house. Essentially with the illustrations vs what they've seen in real-life.
Additionally, the Three Little Javelinas by Susan Lowell is a southwest twist on the story. From what I remembered, all of the beats are the same, but the setting is changed to much the desert. So, javelina rather than pigs, Adobe rather than brick, the saguaro rib sticks rather than just any old sticks, etc.
As a kid growing up in the Southwest, I just saw the the Three Little Javelinas as a cute desertification of the three little pigs, which was introduced to me first. Although I can't remember other examples at the moment, the Three Little Javelinas was not the first desertification of a common story/thing I was exposed to. So, it didn't surprise me, but it entertained me.
Lugbor@reddit
It's a story told to children. We really don't put that much thought into it.
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
If you live in any place where there’s the risk of earthquake, wood frame homes are very good from a cost to safety ratio. Masonry, steel, and concrete homes can be fine too but they need reinforcement which can be expensive.
Hot-Tart1347@reddit
It’s funny to think about, but I always contextualized it in my head as power scaling more or less. The brick is past the limit of his huff and puff power lol.
dragonmuse@reddit
Idk why people aren't answering the question correctly. I learned in public school in ~Arkansas~ that the "moral" of the story was to take the time to do things correctly. People must have forgotten when they went over it in childhood, because its very good sample to use for early literary "analysis".
Also, yes, lots of houses are made out of wood here, but at least in our version of the story, the second house is made out of sticks.
josephblowski@reddit
I always heard the second house was made of “sticks” - not wood. As a kid, sticks seemed pretty obviously substandard for a house. In California anyway, bricks seemed like something rich people would use but I didn’t equate my wood frame house with sticks.
GotMeAMuleToRide@reddit
When I lived in California as a kid I heard that bricks weren't good there because of earthquakes, but then you know, the Hagia Sophia...
Ok_Writing_1520@reddit (OP)
That makes total sense.
bearsnchairs@reddit
Around a quarter of newly constructed houses in your country are timber framed. Far from unheard of.
silentsnak3@reddit
Many of those fairy tales are given to children to read, not comprehend. I was fortunate to have a older sister that spent time explaining the deeper meaning behind many of those stories. So yes, I understood the lesson, but many did not get that option.
Unusual_Memory3133@reddit
It’s a folk/fairy tale. I never debated the merits and materials of house construction during story time.
EuphoricMoose8232@reddit
The only version of the story that landed here was the Green Jellÿ version.
Dave_A480@reddit
Not really....
Although if there was a distinctly American version, instead of building a brick house and a fireplace, the smart pig pops out of the 2nd story window of his wood house with an AR-15, and nails the wolf 3x center-mass...
CaptainAwesome06@reddit
That story is told to children. I don't know any children who think about what their houses are made of. Our houses aren't made of sticks. They are made of 2x4 and 2x6 lumber. The wood is also concealed within drywall and whatever the facade is made out of - which is often brick.
I think you're more likely to have a kid say, "my house is brick like that one" rather than "the inside of my walls has studs made of wood like those sticks."
As adults, we don't really think of the story at all.
BoBoBearDev@reddit
The best thing about wooden home is how easily you can remodel the shit out of it. Don't like this dry wall? Tear it down, open concept.
Also every home gets old regardless which material you use. And some of those are pretty much impossible to fix because of the cost. For example, any condo/apartment with more than 6 units, would go into a heavy duty construction territory, and the cost is astronomical. A SFH is the most easiest to fix because the engineering going to the construction is simple, not like you need to find materials that can handle stronger stress.
atomfullerene@reddit
Nope, not at all. Kids don't really connect the old school wooden house of the three little pigs with modern American construction, which is not really visually similar since the wood here is generally sandwiched between drywall and siding. Probably most small children don't really understand or consider that the average house is wood-framed. Also, most tellings of the story I hear tell it as a "house of straw" vs "house of sticks" vs "house of bricks", so it's not generally about a wooden house exactly, and nobody builds real houses out of sticks here. Finally, since wood framed construction is so common and ordinary, it's unlikely kids would look down on it...especially since wood framed construction doesn't otherwise carry any negative connotations here.
Grouchy-Stand-4570@reddit
It’s not about architecture. It’s about making wise decisions and not be lazy.
ancj9418@reddit
No. Nobody is thinking that deeply about it, especially children. Also, whether a house has bricks, stonework, wood, siding etc. nowadays is all just cosmetic. Homes are made of the same stuff on the inside.
madogvelkor@reddit
The houses are straw, sticks, and brick in the versions I heard. With sticks being a shack made of thin sticks or twigs basically.
Mauser-96@reddit
As I recall the story (it’s been a long time) it was not a commentary on building materials, but rather work ethic. I think you are missing the moral of that story.
Cinisajoy2@reddit
Never thought about it.
Ok_Coconut4898@reddit
Nope. The story is the same.
Most Americans don’t view it a literal lesson about actual building materials, though. It’s seen more as an allegory for the value delayed gratification, hard work, and solid planning. The first two little pigs build their houses quickly in a shoddy manner and suffered for it. The third put invested more time, energy, and money into his and that was beneficial to him later on.
It’s very similar to the Biblical parable about the man who built his house im the sand vs the one who built his on the rock: tye main point is beyond just advice about not having a beach house lol.
StupidLemonEater@reddit
I always heard the story with the second house being made of sticks, not wood. I presumed it was the same in all English-speaking places.
manicpixidreamgirl04@reddit
In our version, the house is made of sticks.
DennisTheBald@reddit
Over here it's often told as straw, sticks, and bricks. Little kids mostly see the sheet rock walls and don't think of the studs as sticks till they start punching nails. Even then the term stick building is quite foreign to a lot of folk
Disastrous_Fault_511@reddit
I grew up where there were a lot of tornadoes, so, although we didn't really think that much about the story, we've all seen plenty of wood houses destroyed.
ChapterOk4000@reddit
Our brick houses have wood frames 🤯
allaboutaphie@reddit
Little pig little pig let me in.. not by the hair of my chinny chin chin.. Green Jelly song is what I think of..lol
Dramatic_Stranger661@reddit
Young children don't spend much time thinking about different building conventions.
Wonderful-Carpet3518@reddit
I don't think I've ever heard it told as made of wood. Sticks! Interesting!
KingSpork@reddit
We have brick houses here. And children, with little knowledge of building codes, can intuitively understand that stone-like brick is sturdier than wood.
albertnormandy@reddit
As the philosopher Patton said, “Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man”
BananaJelloXlii@reddit
Yeah, we have a band that turned it into a killer metal song about 37 years ago.
KateDinNYC@reddit
Not really? I mean sure, wooden houses are common here, but it’s not like a 5 year old is particularly knowledgeable about the building codes and, realistically, straw seems pretty bendy and wood can snap whereas brick things are overall pretty sturdy.
Algae_Mission@reddit
The most famous American telling of the story is Walt Disney’s 1934 short film, the short that convinced Disney that his staff could make a feature film work.
More or less, it’s the same as everywhere else. Most people get the cautionary message about doing things correctly all the same even if people don’t build houses out of straw or wood anymore.
OneNerdyLesbian@reddit
It's a kid's story, and most kids haven't given any thought to what their house is made out of. Most kids living in wooden houses probably aren't even aware the house has a wooden frame.
moonwillow60606@reddit
Seriously we don’t overthink children’s stories to the same degree y’all seem to.
It’s. Just. Not. That. Deep.
thatsad_guy@reddit
That thought has never crossed my mind
Sea_Analysis_8033@reddit
No