What is the main difference between "My ancestors lived in this land before, it was Greek 600 years ago therefore Western Turkey is Greek" and "Our ancestors lived here before the Great Exile then Rome replaced them with Arabs, therefore Palestine is Israel" ?

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Procedure_Gullible@reddit

Both are supremacist and both are wrong. One is actualy implementing its ideas by creating an ethno state and genociding the people who live in the area. The other is not.

Btw there is no isue with a jewish person that wants to live in palestine because his ancestors lived there. The isue arises when that person brings the military and steals people's houses and claims their cultur.

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deaddyfreddy@reddit

and steals people's houses and claims their cultur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world

you are welcome

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

I also don't oppose to Greeks who want to settle in Istanbul, İzmir etc.

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Didudidudadu737@reddit

Easy, one makes the “homeland” claims based on biblical/religious scripture from afar, the other one doesn’t.

Your confronting and equating 2 very different claims: the Israelis claim is like one Norwegian or Chinese or Peruvian converts to Greek Orthodox Christianity, starts mingling only with Greek Orthodox people, marries one that doesn’t even come from Anatolia but from US (for example) but her grand grand grand grand grand mother has declared being Greek on Ottoman population census count and since then the family self determine as Greek and is still orthodox Christian, and the children of those people declare themselves Greek from Anatolia and demand their homeland back, while genociding the local/native population.

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The post is ragebait at first.

The debate between Turks and Greeks is not a land dispute. It is just about the origin of the haritage. In that case I would agree with the Greeks. Western Turkey is an obvious ancient Greek haritage most notably Ephesus and Miletus and they left many Byzantine haritage in İstanbul and cities around. We kept them and added ours.

The Israel Palestine issue on the other hand is a land dispute that created by the UK and an active war. That’s the difference.

Modern Turkish Greek conflict is nothing compared Israel Palestine conflict.

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The “we were settled and living there before you” part of their argument is true but “we were here since the dawn of time” part of it is wrong and doesn’t make any logical sense. With that logic we need to even debate among different homo variations.

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Young_Owl99@reddit

Ionia ?

I can't see us directly attacking Turkey even if we went so far as to support Israel doing it. There's no stomach for a war with a country like Turkey over here. If it happened, though, people might bitch about it, and that's it.

I can't see it, but I also can't say it couldn't happen, sadly. Trump supporters didn't elect him to do this stuff. They want manufacturing brought back into the country with better wages. That's starting to happen, but it's going to take a while. Still, he could be doing lots of other stuff than this shit.

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Mushrooming247@reddit

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Zionists say: "Our ancestors lived in this land for milleniums and then they got exiled, Arabs replaced them. Therefore Palestine is just an Israeli land. We have our right to return and take what already belongs to us. The fact that Arabs live there for generations don't change anything."

Greek Nationalists say: "Our ancestors have lived in İzmir and İstanbul before then Turks replaced them. Therefore it is our lawful right to annex Western Turkey because it belongs to our ancestors first."

Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

I'm a Bulgarian Turk from Ludogorets and even though racist people exist, I can say Bulgarians are waaay more rational and open to work together than Greeks. In 2026, a Turk can live in Bulgaria without facing clear discrimination which is a great improvement!

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The Turkish Cypriots massacred Greek Cypriots as well, it was inter-communal violence, and both sides did it. We are still missing relatives from the 70s… Turks are not the saviors your heavily revised history suggests.

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SeekerAn@reddit

Are you serious? Do you even fact check what you're saying or just parrot propaganda. You start by "I am against war mongering" and when you fail to present anything to back your position on today's events, you spew the Turkish propaganda that was used to justify the Atilla invasion and dislocation of Cypriots.

Seriously how sad are you?

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Yavannia@reddit

https://www.balkanweb.com/en/our-rockets-will-hit-Athens-if-the-Greek-media-raise-the-alarm--how-does-Erdogan-stop-the-threats--Greece-must-be-careful/#gsc.tab=0

Yes war-mongering from Greece.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

It is said after Greek attempted to increase their control to 6 miles as far as I know.

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Yavannia@reddit

Oh so in that case war-mongering is justified I suppose, sounds logical.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

I didn't mean that, I said he's using this in order to make Greece afraid so that they won't increase their continental shelf, it is just preventive you know

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Any_Cucumber8534@reddit

Ehhhhh, you are losing me here brother.

Let's be real here both sides war- monger on this so we keep going at eatchother's necks instead of holding our leaders accountable for their coruption

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

The fact that Erdoğan mishandles economy and propagates news in tv channels implying "People want to attack our country but the supreme leader is there to protect us!" a few times a year is also a fact yes. Truth is truth no need to hide it.

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Any_Cucumber8534@reddit

It is the only way he survives.

Same as Netinyahu, same as Putin.

Радвам се да го чуя това.

I think it's very similar in most parts of Greece. They just have some really loud jingoistic politicians who prison the well.

Also, the Greeks that live around the Turkish and Bulgarian border are generally old and senile. They don't matter to society and all they have is telling about past greatness.

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gendalf666@reddit

Rome never replaced jews with arabs. Arabs migrated later. Some before invasion most after

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kulamsharloot@reddit

So it's ok for Muslims/Arabs to conquer Israel (or Judea) but it's not ok for Jews to reconquer Israel (or Judea)?

Then why most of the commentary section on facebook and twitter say otherwise??

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Plus-Organization-96@reddit

You should not take fb and twitter seriously. Do you know how many times I saw Greco-Turkish maps portraying as if everything is Turkish?

Who cares? The Internet is full of bots and trolls these days.

A Greek nationalist would shout: Cyprus is Greek, or Macedonia is Greek.

Anyway no one would think to annex a 20 million city, it's impossible. After all we know that we have small dick and we can't do much even if we wanted.

the difference was that instead of God, the almighty UK, who ruled the world at that moment willed it into existence. that was the difference. It is the rule of of the powerful, the dog eat dog world.

if Trump says that Lebanon was Jewish land 4 thousand years ago, they will probably disappear from the face of the Earth the same way Gaza will.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

There really isn't one, but also those Greek nationalists get a good ball kicking and have no political power.

Like look, my great-great grandparents were amongst the Greek Genocide survivors. Turkey can keep that land, my life isn't tied to land. My only gripe is how Turkey repeatedly interferes with archaelogical efforts like the Hagia Sofia. Such monuments belong to the world and are not political toys. But that's also isn't Turkish people's fault and dictatorships are gonna dictatorship and Greece's hands aren't that clean either.

However, I am assuming this has to do with the whole Cyprus craze after Iran, and by that fact, no. Greece is merely sending those ships to stop Iran from kickstarting the 3rd Greco-Persian War. No one is fighting anyone.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Thanks, your commentary is valuable, you and your family are 100% welcome in Turkey! You can buy a house from there too maybe?? As long as both parties don't justify war with absurd phrases such as "My ancestors lived here before! It's mine!!!" every problem is solvable. With common will, nothing is impossible.

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

I don't want to live in Turkey. My point is that people whose ancestors actually went through it just want to mind their own business and move forward with their lives. Those nationalists are typically Athenians who never dealt with the brunt of anything and just have a Call of Duty fantasy in their heads

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we love killing so much, we poured enormous effort and wealth into creating deadlier ones.

More like anyone who cant do that just got eliminated. Naturally speaking having weapons and armies have a great advantage, up untill it doesnt.

if you trully want peace you must make peace preferable abd profitable instead of blaming human savagery or something.

like, even in trumps case, he can do warmongering because warmongering benefits him. Some people vote him, fund him, and love him for that reason. Check internet comments.

even the fact that he invaded venezuella before iran and guaranteed a another supply for oil will benefit him more and more. USA might be the only country without rising oil prices whic will make his rule seem better than everyone elses.

something else ı cant say here is happening. But like, this entire thing could be solved pretty easilly if people really wanted to :d

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BankBackground2496@reddit

Didn't we evolve socially in the last 1000 years?

Heck, we cannot excuse what we did 150 years ago.

And today we look at Trump and say that is not right.

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hilmiira@reddit

it have to do with REALİTY rather than society. it doesnt matter what you consider right or wrong

Might is the ability of doing something, ı can do something if ı have the might/power/possibility, Hence, mighty can do what he wants, otherwise he wouldnt be mighty, he wouls be weak=not being able to something/powerless/inefficent

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Aras1238@reddit

And yet you cannot do anything about it. You can just say, this is not right. I can guarantee you, there were people say this "this is not right" during the worst crimes of human history, but they couldn't do anything about it... Because might makes right.

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Chemical-Garden-4953@reddit

"Might makes right" just means that people do NOT say "This is not right" when someone powerful does something and do say it when someone weak does it.

It's very important that people go out of their way to criticise the Trump admin, even though they are the most powerful country on Earth.

Might might get its way, but that doesn't mean we believe it's right.

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Pjeter_Bogdani@reddit

Angry upvote

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SeekerAn@reddit

The fact that Greeks have been consistently advocating for that and they have historical backing. Zionists ended up choosing modern day Israel after their bids for Argentina, Norway and 2 more places were shot down, in addition, it is proven that prior to Zionist rhetorics Hebrew people were peacefully coexisting with the Arab population of the the Gaza strip.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"Greek Nationalists say"

source?

I'm Greek nationalist & I don't say that, lol.

AntiKouk@reddit

In the eyes of consistency Turkey as a state and as a population should take full accountability for the genocides and pogroms before they can have an opinion about Israel's actions. And I hate Israel.

When Greece made claims on Ionia and East Thrace 100 years ago there were significant indigenous Greek populations in both. Same way Turkey laid claims to them as there was significant Turkish population. Not that I condone of that war or the acts of the greek army in any way obviously. That's history now and I don't think anyone seriously wishes for Istanbul to be Greek again outside of strange people online.

Personally my only issue is what Turkey did to the Greeks of Imbros, Tenedos and Istanbul in the 70s etc.

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KhanofSeljuks@reddit

The Greeks of Ionia were not indigenous and arrived in 17th-18th century in huge waves from the islands and mainland Greece. The native Byzantine population melted into the local Seljuk Turkish community by the 13th century.

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Young_Owl99@reddit

True. It wasn’t ours obviously. We come from central Asia. Though it is banned to take land by attacking now :)

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KhanofSeljuks@reddit

I mean it really is ours. 80 percent of Byzantine Anatolian Greeks became Muslim Turks according to Spyros Vryonis. “Turkish” is the last evolutionary stage of Anatolian peoples who switched cultures countless time while mixing with foreigners due to their geographic location.

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klepht_x@reddit

Well, Greeks were living as a plurality in Izmir/Smyrna until 1922 when the Young Turks committed genocide, and Greeks lived as a sizeable minority in Istanbul until 1955, when a violent pogrom murdered or expelled almost all of them from the area.

Also, I can't speak for everyone, but I wou9want to commit another genocide to remove Turkish people from Anatolia. I'd rather have a multi-ethnic Balkan amd Anatolian federation that had autonomy for people to learn and teach their native languages and religions while having a unified government. Ethnonationalism in the Balkans and Anatolia has been a disaster that has led to a dozen genocides and the irretrievable loss of history and continuity of peoples. Better had we all lived as brothers and sisters instead of trying to have some nation built on a fictional golden era of the past where somehow there was only ever Pure Blooded [Ethnicity] living in a territory corresponding to the idea of Greater [Nation].

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Palestinians are primarily Arabized native Levantines.

Western Turks are mostly Turkified Western Anatolians/Greeks

Neither population was completely replaced, they just assimilated with their conquerors

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Creative_Gain3000@reddit

The Turko Greek conflict is all about the Baklava. Who made it first?

I think Albanians were first to make it but im no expert.

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Etsikaietsi@reddit

That's easy - Greeks are cool, and Turks suck.

Nice ragebait though.

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Vestout@reddit

Most intellectually advanced gr*cophile.

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Etsikaietsi@reddit

Turks still not figuring out they’re almost universally disliked in the Balkans will never not be funny.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Turks are disliked because they ruled over the region for 6 centuries as a foreigner state.

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Don’t really care about them being Asian Muslims or whetever.

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StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Mental issues across the pond.

lol.

gif

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Not true at all. Despite the fact I dislike Abdülhamid II, he made a law forbidding Jewish people to buy land in Palestine.

But the Arabs sold their lands to the Jews in secret and against the laws.

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Spare-Advance-3334@reddit

If you don't care enough about your own laws to enforce them, that's a bit of a you problem, referring to Abdülhamid and also the local government in Palestine.

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Thalassophoneus@reddit

It's not Canaan. It's Judea. Palestinians, Lebanese, Bedouins and other native peoples have also existed there for millenia.

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altonaerjunge@reddit

And their Descendants are still living their.

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Ottomans invaded present day Greece. It's a distinction you never made in what you wrote.

I have no point. Greeks have lived in present day Turkey since immemorial times, with incontestable evidence. (historical truth)

A 4000 thousand shepherd tribe is what Turks claim they are (the vast majority of people converted to Islam in Western Turkey are Greeks).

It's the same old Bosnian and Serbian dispute, division only by religion. As there are neglectable genetic differences between the two groups.

I got zero horses in this fight, but at least let's be consistent in regards to history and not bastardize it in the name of "Governmental supremacy" on modern day states.

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LastHomeros@reddit

You know nothing about the history of Anatolia.

The Luwians, a branch of Indo-European Anatolians, inhabited Western Anatolia for roughly 1,500 to 2,000 years, with cultural continuity in some areas even longer. Greeks were just invaders and colonizers of the region.

Also, Turks of Western Anatolia carry the highest East Eurasian DNA, so assuming that they are Greek is simply false.

Get your facts right.

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StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Mate, I see you insist with "theories" regarding Luwians. They populated eastern Anatolia (that's the consensus).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luwians Has all the maps relevant, still doesn't negate anything I've said.

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LastHomeros@reddit

And Wikipedia, in the articles that I've sent, presents the current narrative propagated by Turkey in relation to the ethnogenesis.

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Accomplished-One5765@reddit

BAHAHAHAH I can’t believe you are actually re-heating this “Well Turks are actually Greeks!” narrative for a thousandth time.

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StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

I said that genetically there's no difference between Western Turks and Greeks. You're replying with "BAHAHAHAH".

I'm not re-heating anything, not interested in Etrugrul narratives, which are ahistorical.

Good luck with the Holy War in the Middle East, you'll need it in ten years.

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Accomplished-One5765@reddit

I said that genetically there is no difference between Western Turks and Greeks. You are replying with “BAHAHAHAH.”

Ignoring the fact that maybe y’all should stop obsessing over genetics like Hitler, there definitely are differences between the average Western Turk and the average Greek. They overlap a lot but are not exactly the same. You only made historical arguments, while that is not how genetics works at all.

Good luck with the Holy War in the Middle East, you’ll need it in ten years.

What you should be worrying about is how Europe is going to handle the population crisis once Turkey opens its borders and immigrants flow into Europe and they can’t pay for us to keep them in anymore.

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StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

The culture through passage of time (which shapes history, lol) and religion. Neglectable differences (and that's science and genetics) are in play, whether you like it or not, if you're European looking in Anatolia, you're most likely a Turk (or a Serbian mercenary or a Celt from Galatia). But most likely a Greek.

Europe (Greek name btw) is going to handle everything appropriately, not even worried, I'd be worried about the masters of banking and war in the Middle East and the Holy Land being enforced if I was you. Good luck, my European brother (or Turkic brother if you like that identity), you'll need it, for the war won't be with Greece.

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Volaer@reddit

Turks (muslims) do live in Greece (Thrace, Rhodes and Kos)
Very few Greeks live in Turkey because of the pogrom of 1955 and the ethnic cleansing of the Greeks of Tenedos and Imbros during the 60s and Turkey should absolutely apologize and pay reparations for these atrocities.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

nope.

Muslim Greeks.

there's no Turks in Greece, this is lawfully established, there will never be a Turkish minority in Greece.

yeah, okay.

Turkey hasn't apologized for the Armenian genocide.

u think they'll "pay reparations" for some pogroms?

it's Turkey, lol.

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Volaer@reddit

Muslim Greeks there's no Turks in Greece, this is lawfully established, there will never be a Turkish minority in Greece.

I am aware. Hence why I specified that I mean muslims. 🙂

actually visit.

I am seriously considering doing just that (though probably not this year). I visited a number of Greek islands but never the Dodecanese.

u think they'll "pay reparations" for some pogroms? it's Turkey, lol.

I wrote “should”, I am making a moral appeal, not a predictive prophecy.

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LastHomeros@reddit

Well, those lands originally belonged to the Luwians. Greeks are also colonizers.

We all know they would have done that if they had the power. The Cyprus conflict shows that Greek Cypriots were not angels either, as they systematically targeted Turkish Cypriots to “purify” the island.

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puzzledpanther@reddit

We all know they would have done that if they had the power.

Someone's gotten really fat from gobbling down all that propaganda.

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LastHomeros@reddit

Didn’t Greek Cypriots massacre Turkish Cypriots, and isn't there an event called Bloody Christmas?

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puzzledpanther@reddit

EOKA B massacred Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots who resisted them taking over power.

How is that proof of your ridiculous fictional claim?

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LastHomeros@reddit

Killing a few opponents is nowhere near ethnically cleansing a couple of hundred ethnic minorities, which are the Turkish Cypriots.

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LastHomeros@reddit

Killing a few opponents is nowhere near ethnically cleansing a couple of hundred ethnic minorities, which are the Turkish Cypriots.

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Full-Friendship1@reddit

gif

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kissablegooch@reddit

who taught you this bullshit mate?

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Dikili35@reddit

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MB4050@reddit

Yes, and there’s even still greek-speaking muslims in the Pontus and maybe elsewhere, but I didn’t count them because they were not a big community, they were minorities. I’m pretty sure Constantinople has been majority Turkish since the 16th century.

In the same way, there were plenty of Jews in Palestine before 1948. In fact, there had always been a continuous Jewish presence in Palestine from the Bar Kokhba revolt to the beginning of Zionism (just look at all the pogroms in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries), but it was always a small minority, with most Jews living in diaspora.

I disagree.

I think eventually it will stop being bitter.

For example, in 376 the Ostrogoths were forced to cross the Danube from Dacia into Moesia and seek refuge within the Roman Empire, later leading to the battle of Adrianople, because they were being driven by the Huns from the rear, who invaded and took over their lands, and caused a century of misery for the Goths.

And yet today no sane German ever complains about the lost lands of Dacia, about their homeland overrun by the Huns.

.

Or even more recently, in the 13th century the great empire of Khwarezm was invaded, pillaged, ransacked and destroyed by the Mongols. Surely one would think that today every Turk is up in arms to retake Khwarezm, right? Wrong, nobody gives a shit because so much time has passed.

Wait a century, and the 1923 population exchange will no longer be in living memory. Wait another century, and, if they still exist in their present form at all, nobody in Turkey or Greece will be emotionally attached at all to these events, no more than the Greeks “emotionally attached” to the fall of Constantinople, who are few and can’t be taken seriously.

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AntiKouk@reddit

I meant in the next one two generations. In 200 years who gives a shit we'll all be dead and buried hahaha

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MB4050@reddit

Oh, yes, while it remains within living memory definitely.

But already today there aren't so many people alive who ever knew someone born in Anatolia. By the end of this century, there will only be very few people, like 100 years old, who only remember talking to their 100 year old great-grandmother from Anatolia when they were little children.

100 years from now, it will no longer be within living memory, and that helps a lot with remaining emotion.

But not within our lives, that's for sure.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Let me began by saying, I am sorry for 1923 Exchange, Christians of Turkic origin were also exiled, I'm not happy for that AT ALL.

Nusayris (Syrian Alawites) were a group that have been excluded and massacred by Muslims for centuries because of their "heretical" believes that claim Ali ibn Talip is Allah etc. When Hatay joined Turkey with a referandum it was proposed to Atatürk to exile them back to Syria but he accepted them and gave them citizenship. Today, Nusayris are 100% integrated to Turkish society.

The problem was, when Greek invasion of Anatolia began after WW1, many Greeks supported it and showed that they don't want to belong to Turkey in the first place, which is understandable. Completely. But this was the reason that 1923 Population Exchange was done. Atatürk was the most secular leader that Turkiye has even seen, he even accepted those who say "Ali is Allah". If Greeks wanted to be Turkish and integrate, he would gladly let them. But it just doesn't work after 4 years lasting year war and invasion.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

"I am sorry for 1923 exchange"

no need, lol.

Venizelos proposed it for a reason.

if it wasn't for it, the (few) Greeks left (in Turkey) would have been "forced out" or "assimilated" & (more importantly) Greece would be 100% "cooked"

don't think people (including some Greeks) realize how "disastrous" it would have been for us.

20 years later we had a full-blown "civil war"

if u want a example of what Greece would look like, look at Cyprus.

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Accomplished-One5765@reddit

I honestly wish there was a way to continue without a population exchange

I firmly believe that the Muslim Greeks were actually Greeks in the end, while the Muslim Turks were Turks in the end.

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Altruistic-Board5322@reddit

Other than ~2% ultra-nationalist, noone, NOONE says here that western Turkey is Greek.

We are not the ones that create claims for neighbouring territories in a pace faster than roasting a donner.

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Cool_Penglin@reddit

When you think about it, you cant really claim land because you were there before. İts like when you lose your seat and say “hey that was my seat i was sitting here before you”. Well not anymore. İm sitting here now.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

Other than ~2% ultra-nationalist, noone, NOONE says here that western Turkey is Greek.

I've seen more Turks say this shit than Greeks on Reddit.

(they claim that Greeks have territorial claims on Turkey, which we don't, & so it's natural for them to have territorial claims on Greece, which they don't, & they shouldn't even think of it).

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chrstianelson@reddit

She crawls out of her lair and once again, it's only to spout bullshit.

Even the most rabid Turkish ultranationalist expansionist dream against Greece doesn't go beyond extending maritime borders and some rocks in the Aegean.

Quite unlike Megali Idea.

Greece has waged a number of expansionist wars against the Ottoman Empire since their independence, Turkey has fought none.

And I know people like you love to espouse the notion that Megali Idea is a long forgotten, irrelevant ideology in today's modern, progressive, "European" (a delusion) Greece, when in fact that it's still alive and well in the nationalist circles. It was only about 10 years ago when Golden Dawn, a political party that literally used Israel in their rhetoric to announce their support for Megali Idea, came third in Greek elections.

Mate, many people speak for lost homelands, the memories they had before the 1920s events (population exchange, the war, the things you did to Greeks and things that Greeks did to you etc) but noone will say that izmir or bodrum is greek territory under occupation etc etc

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chrstianelson@reddit

noone will say that izmir or bodrum is greek territory under occupation etc etc

Wasn't Megali Idea one of the founding principles of Golden Dawn?

Didn't Golden Dawn come third in 2015 Greek general elections with 7% of the vote?

Are people supposed to believe your claims?

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vm0066@reddit

I'm not trying to excuse or defend anything, because yes people did vote for them(many reasons, turkey isn't the main reason at all) but to be fair we did declare them to be a criminal organisation and locked most of them in prison.

Which is saying a lot. It's basically unheard of for active greek politicians to be criminally prosecuted let alone punished for crimes after metapolitefsi, yet we did that specifically for Golden Dawn because they were exceptionally bad

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Plus-Organization-96@reddit

Golden Dawn was not just nationalistic. They were nazis, they declared it openly. They believed even worse things than megali idea.

They got elected not because of their ideology, but because people were furious with the political establishment and natively voted for something extreme. The reason was poverty more than their beliefs. They also used the narrative of the bad immigrants that destroy our country.

You can say whatever you want for this 7%, I don't care but if the megali idea was a thing, we would hear it from other parties. It does not bring votes.

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chrstianelson@reddit

Fair enough, but let's apply the same standards to Turks as well then shall we? Because there's no one in Turkey dreaming of recounquista of Greek lands to achieve some neo-Ottomanist goal.

CopenHagenCityBruh@reddit

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P-l-Staker@reddit

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opinionsareuseful@reddit

Askbalkans is full of divisive posts. Feels deliberate.

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Stating facts does not make me a hater, puzzle guy

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Classic-Log-162@reddit

I am Türk.I am living in İzmir. I actually like Roman and ancient Greek heritages. I am reading a lot about these ancient cultures and history.

But this is not possible that you will be back. This is not a temporary ending of presence. We are here permanently.

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LastHomeros@reddit

Their dominance in Anatolia has ended, and Turks accomplished it. Similarly, Greeks previously displaced Indo-European Anatolians (Hittites, Luwians, Palaics, etc.) who lived in the region for over 2,500 years before the Greeks arrived.

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Classic-Log-162@reddit

Bro, They live in a bubble. I really admire Ancient Greek and Roman culture, but modern Greek nationalists are far from reality and blinded by racism. We have always stood for peace. However, without considering their population or strength, they speak recklessly about the lands we live in and call home. We are always in favor of peace, but if we are attacked, we will not hesitate for a moment.

NoItem5389@reddit

Difference is that Palestinians ARE the native people of that land. Turks on the other hand descend from Turkic invaders (as well as Byzantine Anatolians).

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OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit

And "Palestinians" descend from Arab invaders. In fact they didn't even call theselves "Palestinians" before 1964. Everything that had "Palestinian" in it's name was Jewish until the Jews rebranded as "Israeli".

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NoItem5389@reddit

Palestinians do not descend from Arab invaders nor do they claim to be. especially the palestianian Christians, Palestinians are some of the closest genetically to Jesus and the apostles.

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OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit

They're feaking Arabs! It's like if the Turks in modern day Greece intermingled with the natives and then claim to be natives just because they are genetically similar to the Greeks they assimilated. Hell even a Hamas leader admited that most Arabs in Gaza are Egyptian.

Jesus and the Apostles were Jews not "Palestinian", that's a Roman and later British colonial label. Even today in Israel the majority are Mizrahi Jews AKA the same type of Jews Jesus and the Apostles were.

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NoItem5389@reddit

The majority of Israelis are not Mizrahi lol wtf. Majority are Ashkenazi (European Jews). And no, you are wrong. Palestinians, especially Palestinian Christians, did not mix with Arabs. They just adopted the culture. If you want to go off genetics, Palestinians are far more indigenous to the Levant than European Jews.

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The difference is that the Turks spit on their Byzantine (Greek) Anatolians DNA and the Palestinians embrace their Levantine Roots. Look at how Turks treated Armenians and Pontic Greek! Look at how Turks treat Panagia Soumela and Agia Sophia! They spit on their Greco-Anatolian heritage but want to claim it when it is convenient for them.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

This is national will. France today can decide to convert to buddhism, speak Chinese and start marrying immigrants from SEA, that won't make their children foreigners in France.

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NoItem5389@reddit

Yea it will because fundamentally they are a different culture now. It’s no longer France anymore, it’s a different country/culture that occupied the same land.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

They are a different culture, yet still the descendants of those who lived there before. Just because France decides to become a Buddhist nation, it won't make invasion of Northern France by UK ok. It'd be irrelevant.

(NOTE: Yes, just go to 23andme sub or whatever source you want. Turks have at least 50% Byzantine Anatolian, which means almost half, more for some, of their ancestors are locals who accepted Turkish culture)

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NoItem5389@reddit

I don’t disagree with you. Doesn’t change the fact that you spit on the heritage of your ancestors.

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LastSeaworthiness767@reddit

Turkey's claim is more similar with Israel.

At least, it is Turkey GOVERMENT's claim

I agree with the last sentence, but the Ottomans were culturally much more Persian than Helleno-Roman.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Sure, many people confuse Persian and Arab, that's why they call every middle eastern concept "Arab" but in reality. Concept of Divan "Cabinet meetings" or the title Padishah etc are completely Persian. Anybody who knows about Eastern history know it!

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It has to do what you learn your youth to believe. Persistence in pushing an idea to a youth will be the key factor in achieving your goal that requires more than one generations velocity.

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trisul-108@reddit

The main difference is UN General Assembly Resolution 181.

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Substratas@reddit

The thing is that Palestinians are native to those lands because their ancestry is directly linked to Phoenicians. Religions are so divisive that they ”brainwash” people into believing there’s a correlation between ancestry & religion, hence the ”Arabs stole our lands” attitude.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Go to 23andme sub or whatever DNA testing resource you want, almost every Turk has at least 50% Byzantine Anatolian ancestry. This is higher for some Turks. Because a lot of our ancestors are Anatolians who accepted the Turkish culture.

Not like it wasn't tried.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_%281919%E2%80%931922%29#/media/File:Fronts_during_the_Turkish_War_of_Independence.jpg

But the France, Italy and the Soviets saw Greece as a British client state and cut separate deals. Eventually the Brits also cut their losses forcing a Greek retreat back to the Aegean sea. No way a few million Greeks could hold unto a chunk of Asia Minor without the major power backing them. In the case of Israel, so long as the US continues to support the occupation and genocides, both will continue. For there is no way a few million Israelis can beat down half a billion locals without a major power backing them.

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Super_Sherbet_268@reddit

Palestinians, share a significant percentage of ancestry (81-87%) with Bronze Age Canaanites. This suggests an unbroken connection to the land rather than mass migration from the Arabian Peninsula during the 7th-century Arab conquests.

while the roman did exile jews from jerusalem, many jews settled in Galilee and in other part of modern day occupied palestine. These jews converted from Judaism to christainity to islam over time so suggesting that the roman replaced the entire population of the region of palestine with arabs is absurd. Empire crush local populaitons not expell entire populaiton coz by doing so would not only turn the land they rule a wasteland, lose men and have fewer ppl to raise taxes on.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

enter 23andme sub and type Turkish, you can barely find a Turkish person without Anatolian dna. Most have more than 50% Anatolian ancestry. Doesn't that increase similarities?

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Super_Sherbet_268@reddit

yeah but im not denying that right? What I'm saying is that through out history, for one empire to rise the other fall hence ethnic religious national and cultural even linguistic identity is never static, Cultures change people adopt new cultures languages evolve and people convert religions. Its bogus to claim rights to a land or any citizenship when you can't even name or trace your linage back 3000 years ago. Moors were also expelled from spain but can they go back to andulsia? reclaim it? No right?

The Crimean Tatars were expelled by Russians from Crimea but do they have a right to return and displace the current local population and declare Crimea as khanates of Crimea?

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736384826@reddit

Both are stupid statements

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DeltaObserve@reddit

Literally no difference, both are fascist mentalities. Israeli mindset derives from paranoia while Greek mindset is built upon inferiority complex.

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FlakyContribution345@reddit

No difference. Majority of turkey is greek and will be greek again when turkey falls.

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QuarianGuy@reddit

One has US funding behind it and the other has EU and IMF funding behind it.

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OsarmaBeanLatin@reddit

Honestly this could apply to the Balkans as a whole. I can't take seriously a Balkan antizionist telling me Zionism is bad when the very same reasons they claim is bad are the reasons their country exists with the current borders in the first place.

When the Balkan states were concieved they went after lands that were historically or culturally important for them without caring who lives in them now

Just tell a Greek that Thessaloniki was majority Turkish when they occupied it and they'll start rambling about "Muh Byzantine Empire!!!" or "Muh Ancient Greece!!!!!" Or tell a Serb that they stole land from Albanians and they'd start rambling about "Muh Medieval Serbian lands!!!!!" or "Muh Churches!!!!"

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HotlineMiami_3@reddit

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Discipline_Cautious1@reddit

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_mayuk@reddit

My ancestor did actually lived in that land … but I mean in Spain and France too they just got burned donw there … but Venetia … and Serbia/Hungary are core … Crete and the Greeks mostly durin the early times of the Iron Age ..

And the Vikings time is moslty after Byzantine colapse of the vargundian guard commerce routes ( but it’s moslty Mediterranean dna that end up up )

I’m Venezuela nowadays … what I would say ? Bring back the Spanish empire and the austro-Hungarian empire ? :v

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icancount192@reddit

Yes. Anatolia is Turkish now. You won it twice in two wars.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Thanks, as I stated before, I am FOR normalization and co-operation with Greece in any way possible. I just have problems those constantly call Turks mongols (and somehow Turkified Greeks at the same time) and say attacking Turkey (literally Greece's neighbor) would be good because Greeks lived there before. I think this is stone age mentality.

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icancount192@reddit

There are fascists Greeks and fascists Turks. Block them all.

Also how Greece would attack Turkey now exactly? Do they or you really believe Greece is a military threat to Turkey in 2026? We're not in 1995, Greek economy has collapsed and Turkish economy has improved.

There are fascists on both side of the border. Golden Dawn and MHP. Both feel miserable by their current existence and dream of conquering to feel better.

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OkCheesecake5894@reddit

Depends on who genocides the hardest

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spook008@reddit

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I think the difference is that the Greeks realise that going to commit genocide on all of western Turkey today if they had the capacity would be a very fucked up thing to do. Their beef with Turkey is mostly just political spectacle. The only geopolitically significant thing are the debates about the intersecting coastline.

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Empty-Pace-4228@reddit (OP)

Tbh, I don't think they would attack too. That kind of a war would definitely ignite weapons of mass destructions (Turkey has vacuum bombs, if they use it Greece will also find something to use), no state leader in Turkey and Greece are courageous enough to risk their lives.

exactly.

if Palestine had won one (not all, but one) of the wars, they'd probably be independent, now.

"να 'χαμε να λέγαμε" αλλιώς.

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ZobGraffiti@reddit

Le traité de Versailles