Americans should file on paper to protest the stranglehold of the tax preparation software business
Posted by DCContrarian@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 60 comments
The only reason most Americans have to file federal taxes is because of the tax preparation software industry.
Filing electronically benefits the IRS much more than it benefits the taxpayer. All it costs to file on paper is a stamp plus the cost of printing.
huggernot@reddit
LPT: if you just have kids and a job. Paper is super easy. If you trade stocks, use turbine tax one year, download your return and use it as a template for paper next year
MichaelMeier112@reddit
My understanding is that IRS already have everything.
They could send out a prepared tax from that you only have to sign and send back, just like how we do it in Sweden.
However, most of the IRS internal software is run by Intuit. The software is now so complex that not even IRS understands it.
That is why we are stuck with Intuit TurboTax for all future. Corruption…
Weird_Warm_Cheese@reddit
The IRS has a free e-file option.
Remarkable-Host405@reddit
yeah, if you have a very simple return, but i thought i read it was killed
Switchell22@reddit
Didn't they get rid of it thanks to Intuit lobbying?
Weird_Warm_Cheese@reddit
https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms
TSiQ1618@reddit
I was trying to do that yesterday, and it was literally impossible. To verify, you had to provide a phone #, email, and answer a weird captcha I've never seen before. And for some reason you need to do all 3 at the same time. The page had 3 portions, enter the code from the text, enter the other code sent to the separate email, and the captcha was a simple-ish quiz, where it gave three garbled words, and you would "enter the bird from the words below" or whatever the random question would roll as. You had to enter all 3 correctly in one 'send' just to even complete registration. I didn't even get to see a form because the text took 20-30min to arrive and codes expired after 15min.
SconiGrower@reddit
Free Fillable Forms is a pretty old program that lets people e-file for free, but it's just digitized IRS forms. You need to know which forms you need and where to place what numbers. That's still here.
The IRS did try to make a Q&A style tax software, which the administration has shut down.
Fritanga5lyfe@reddit
No
CarlJustCarl@reddit
Yes
Active_Public9375@reddit
They got rid of the free direct software program. You can still use the more basic fillable forms option.
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DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
The issue isn't that it's not free. It's why do we have to file when the IRS already has all of our information anyway? For some people that's not true, but for most it is.
Weird_Warm_Cheese@reddit
IRS doesn't know your deductions, or unique tax deductions for you. IRS thinks they know what you should pay. Filing gives you an opportunity to tell them why you should pay less.
cakemates@reddit
The IRS could save hundred of millions of Americans 90% of the effort by giving us what they know and having us file for the deductions and anything we see missing there.
JayTheSuspectedFurry@reddit
There is evidence that shows that not prefilling the form for you causes less tax fraud
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
The vast majority of filers take the standard deduction.
People who have unique situations will still have to file. But the overwhelming majority who have nothing on their return that the IRS doesn't already know should be relieved of the burden of preparing a return.
Weird_Warm_Cheese@reddit
Pardon me If I'm not too keen to trust the IRS to get it right. I'd rather file.
cakemates@reddit
they could fill the document for you and send it to you to review and change.
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
That would still be your choice.
Kevinator201@reddit
I am a gig worker and can’t use that :/
Remarkable-Host405@reddit
americans should just not file
GypsyDarkEyes@reddit
A little late for this year, but hopefully they'll still be around for next season. FreeTaxUSA is great.
joshhupp@reddit
Switched to FreetaxUSA a few years ago and it's a game changer. Hopefully the country catches on and puts Turbo Tax out of business
douggold11@reddit
I don’t understand this post. What does my putting my return in the mail instead of e-filing accomplish?
mckenzie_keith@reddit
The IRS should do two things.
1) stagger tax due dates so that it does not all happen at the same time.
2) build a web portal that is, in effect, tax preparation software so you can file online. The forms will be editable but pre-populated with whatever info the IRS already has for you.
rokar83@reddit
lol this is a dumb idea.
Fess_ter_Geek@reddit
We used H&R software.
It got me up to about a 9.4 on the "blow a head pipe frustration meter" when the damn thing threw an error message and would not submit.
Fortunately, exiting and reloading appeared to fix the issue.
WorkerEquivalent4278@reddit
The huge advantage to you is that paper return processing is SLOW. File electronically and you'll probably have your refund in a matter of 10 or less business days. Paper file, and it takes months.
GiraffeWithATophat@reddit
We've been filling taxes for a lot longer than tax software has been available
63crabby@reddit
I read that first paragraph in the body of the post 3 times, still doesn’t make sense.
CarlJustCarl@reddit
Boycott the tax software, fill out the forms you can download and mail them in.
Sounds like you better use the software.
63crabby@reddit
Yeah, my tax return is about 75 pages. I’m using the software, truly money well spent. Especially compared to what I used to pay an accountant.
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
In most civilized countries, most taxpayers don't have to file taxes.
The IRS collects information on taxpayers from banks and employers. For most taxpayers, the IRS already has all the information they need to compute their taxes.
63crabby@reddit
So your argument is that but for the tax prep software industry, we wouldn’t have to file taxes anymore?
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
Not everyone, but most people.
In most of the world, you get an annual statement from the tax authority saying, "this is what we have in our records about your income and deductions. If it's correct, just sign and mail back. If it's not, then you're going to have to file a correction."
63crabby@reddit
Sure. If we had a simple tax code, we could do all the calculations on a post card. We don’t, and that’s not because of tax prep software companies.
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
You're not getting the point. I'll try once more.
If you have income on a W2 or a 1099, or deductions for mortgage interest on a 1098 or from state and local taxes, the IRS is already getting all of that information from the same people who sent the forms to you. When you file your taxes, they take what you turned in and compare it with what they already have and make sure you entered it all correctly and did the calculations properly.
Now, for some taxpayers there is other information that impacts their taxes that they have to report themselves to the IRS. But most people don't actually put anything on their return that the IRS doesn't already know, so the whole thing is a colossal duplication of effort.
63crabby@reddit
Yes, I’ve understood all of that from the beginning. Please re-read OP’s premise, and put aside your separate issue. Tax software is a remedy to the filing requirement, not the cause. As others have stated, we’ve had to file taxes even before there was tax prep software.
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
I am the OP.
The only reason the US hasn't followed the rest of the civilized world in making filing optional is lobbying by the tax preparation industry.
63crabby@reddit
As we say, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” You have an interesting theory, I’ll admit.
gc3@reddit
Filing not filling I guess
63crabby@reddit
No, the part that ignores the real reason why we file taxes. Because it’s the law, not because of tax prep software.
rjnd2828@reddit
Sometimes laws exist for a reason. In this case one reason is because of HEAVY lobbying from Intuit and HR Block.
63crabby@reddit
We have to file taxes because of lobbying by Intuit and HR Block? Not tax attorneys, not pretty much every special interest that gets tax breaks, it’s just the tax prep software industry?
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
You can file electronically, or you can mail in paper. Your choice, and your tax bill is the same either way.
Kevinator201@reddit
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free
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Choopster@reddit
Great job posting this the day after tax season ends
CarlJustCarl@reddit
Wait for his, ‘Need ideas for Easter’ post?
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
Crazy ideas don't arrive on a schedule.
athomsfere@reddit
I paid about $360 to file this year (jointly).
4 sources of income, I think it was 13 different 1099 forms this year, plus credits for debts and a couple investments.
Even with all the automatic imports from the different banks and payroll systems it took several hours. I'm happy to pay to not have to do it with paper forms.
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
To be clear, the idea is you would use tax prep software, but instead of efile at the end you print it out and mail it in.
gc3@reddit
My taxes are like 90 pages
DCContrarian@reddit (OP)
As are mine. I print them out and mail them to my state to protest the fact I'd have to pay $25 to efile.
Kevinator201@reddit
That’s $3000 in printer ink alone!
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