Ash scattering
Posted by Agitated-Pop7973@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 68 comments
Hi flyers! My grandad has just passed and he devoted a lot of his life to aircraft engineering. I have a PPL in the UK and my family have asked about the possibility of scattering some of his ashes airborne…out the hatch window of a PA28. I just wondered what everyone’s thoughts are on this, whether it’s an outright ridiculous idea or something that could be done. Not something I’ve ever been asked to do!
Sometimes_Stutters@reddit
My grandpa was a life-long pilot. He actually was awarded the highest civilian pilot recognition.
When he passed away my uncle took his ashes up for one last flight in his beloved plane. My grandpas pilot buddies arranged to all fly in formation and my grandpas plane did the “Missing man formation” right over the family farm.
It was one of the coolest and most emotional things I’ve ever seen.
Zeus_ScT@reddit
Hey, current UK pilot and former funeral director. All of the advice here is very sound, just bear in mind that legally you need permission from the land owner to scatter ashes.
Practically you can get away with it in most remote locations (please just look out for any people passing below). If you were to attempt this over a built up area however you could get into a bit of bother so just be wary of surroundings if you attempt this.
ryancrazy1@reddit
If you try to dump him out the window, some of him will come back in. You will breathe grandpa
autonym@reddit
Even worse, he might get in your eyes and temporarily blind you. That could result in your ashes commingling with his a few minutes later. (PS: Sorry for your loss.)
Wandrews123@reddit
My uncle said not to try it.
reidmrdotcom@reddit
I know someone who offered to do it. They opened one window and granny got blown right back in to coat everything inside.
Apparently at the minimum you need to open both windows and get the container far out the window before letting grandpa go.
Just_Another_Pilot@reddit
The correct method is to wrap the ashes in thin plastic, then use a tube with a sharp hook at the end to catch and open the plastic well outside of the aircraft.
The flight school I worked at on the Florida coast did this quite a bit.
LateralThinkerer@reddit
This. I have a friend who did ash-scattering as a service (really) but he had a removable container on one of the main gear that would open when a lanyard was pulled. Apparently if you're doing it manually the very least is a sturdy paper bag to get it all out well into the wind stream and aft of the little window as you hold it in your hand.
X-Nihilo-Nihil-Fit@reddit
I did this from a 172. Put the ashes in a paper bag and tie a string around it to close it. Put a golf ball above the knot and tie it in place with a long rope. Slow down and release the bag. The weight will make it drop and the golf ball brings it to a halt, the inertia will cause the bad to break away from the golf ball and scatter the ashes.
FL060@reddit
Put the ashes in a bag with a flap that is not secured shut. The bag should have a long (think 20-30') tether attached to the bottom (away from the flap). Wrap the tether around the bag vertically, this will hold the flap shut.
In the air, hold the tether and push the bag out of the window. The bag will unroll until the flap can open, delivering the ashes.
Obvious-Hunt19@reddit
Everything’s a fuckin travesty with you, man!
Guysmiley777@reddit
And what was that shit about Vietnam??
SlowDownToGoDown@reddit
Have you seen The Big Lewboski? :-)
Check out this article from AOPA.
grumpyoldman10@reddit
You’re going to need a pretty decent plan to do it. Otherwise you’ll make an absolute mess. Perhaps something like a PVC tube that can be pushed partially out the window with a cap on one end and a butterfly valve on the other?
Vast-Negotiation9068@reddit
My only concern with a tube out the little window opening is the tube interfering with the control wheel.
grumpyoldman10@reddit
I mean, you’d have to figure that out. I was envisioning a 2 inch PVC tube about 2 feet long that you would stick about halfway out the window.
Cdraw51@reddit
That's exactly what some guys at my local airport did to scatter the ashes of a fellow pilot. They basically had a tube with his ashes in them attached to the right main landing gear strut of a C-172, and they scattered the ashes with a butterfly valve at one end of the tube that was opened with a string pulled by the pilot. Long story short, they didn't just open a window and dump them out.
HotPast68@reddit
I like this idea. That way high pressure gets stored in the tube and forces the ashes out. Just make sure no ram pressure gets forced into the tube which would stop the ashes from exiting
HazardousAttitudes@reddit
A student of mine recently tried to vomit out the window.. was in the splash zone. Definitely have a sound plan
Overall-Lynx917@reddit
Does a PA 28 need flaps to take off?
We scattered ashes of RAF aircrew when I was serving, this was a long time ago so bear with me.
On Hunters the ashes were put in a paper bag which was stowed in the airbrake, one end taped to the fuselage the other to the airbrake. On Buccaneers the bag was also taped to each side of the airbrake. Aircraft took off, flew to the appropriate area, and would then open the airbrake in a gentle dive. Ashes would be scattered.
If the PA 28 can take off without flaps, there's your answer.
West-Organization450@reddit
Yeah I’ve heard similar stories of this not going well at all…seems a lot of folks final resting place is the tail cone of an old Cessna
Isssaman@reddit
My favorite uncle passed a few years ago and wanted his ashes spread on the grave of his earlier departed wife. Just as the urn was tipped a big gust of wind blew the ashes all over the mourners. Most of my uncle ended up in showers and washing machines. I think he would have got a kick out of that.
carsgobeepbeep@reddit
Not ideal for the aircraft owner...but I can think of worse places to spend eternity for the dearly departed!
JSTootell@reddit
I would maybe test with a handful of flour or something you don't mind cleaning up. At least, that's what I would do.
saml01@reddit
Absolutely great way to aspirate a bunch of flour and suffocate
VanDenBroeck@reddit
Here is an article from the AOPA on this subject.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/may/pilot/technique-spreading-ashes
SATSewerTube@reddit
This is what I’ve heard done before (…definitely didn’t do it myself………………:
**Open the storm window and place a piece of firm sponge or foam fit to the shape of the window
**cut a hole in the sponge/foam wide enough to run a flexible tube through it, use caulk or similar to seal the tube in place and prevent airflow
**run that tube down the side of the airplane and attach it to the tail tiedown
**get a capped hopper, maybe one that you can ventilate the lid and fit it to the tube (I used…erm I’ve heard of a paintball hopper being perfect)
**affix hopper to tube upside when almost ready to deploy
**rotate hopper right side up and apply handheld massage gun with a rubber tip to the side of hopper
Alternately potentially could use a piece of non-flexible PVC, the same foam/sponge, and extend it out into the slipstream perpendicular to the airplane which will help create a Venturi and you won’t have to affix anything to the tiedown. Extend it far enough for the ashes to help to clear the footprint of the horizontal downstream. I’d recommend cutting the hole in the foam/sponge to coordinate with the tube resting in the lower left corner of the window to alleviate aerodynamic forces on the tube
Wilbur_Redenbacher@reddit
Absolutely not out of the storm window of a Cherokee.
I’d maybe see if you can find a tree near the airport where you can bury his ashes under. That way he can watch planes come and go in peace.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
I’ve thought of this, I would probably 3D print a box with a lid of some sort and run a cable to a latch. Mount it on the strut or the tailwheel. I wouldn’t dump it out the window, you are going to be wearing grandpa when you land if you do that.
For what it’s worth if my kids do that and my last act on this earth is turning them into powdered doughnuts I’m going to be having a giant belly laugh, wherever I am.
Recent-Day3062@reddit
I know of guys who did this.
The biggest problem is that the ashes start to recoil and fill the cabin with them, with nothing going out
I’d research it and experiment with some flour or some such before trying
rcbif@reddit
You need a tandem taildragger with side opening window like a cub.
And then as someone else stated, a string and bag to deploy.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
How would you like to breathe someone else’s ashes? Grandad was very special to you but he wasn’t anyone everyone’s grandad. If you absolutely must do it please do it somewhere extremely remote.
rcbif@reddit
lol, this isnt a gender reveal....you aren't gonna be "breathing" anyone's ashes dropped from a few thousand feet in any tractable amount.
Rainebowraine123@reddit
If you do try it, try it with a small amount of sand or something first.
Tiny-Ad-830@reddit
We did this with our PA30 and now we always say that our friend Jack always flies with us due to the amount of Jack that ended up coming back inside with us.
Make sure you can some sort of tubing going from the bag to the outside of your window. Also rig up a window covering that has an opening the exact size of the tubing. Like have a piece of thick plastic over the wi Dow with the tubing (like a 1” diameter) going through the plastic. If we ever do it again, this is our plan.
Tiny-Ad-830@reddit
Also, my husband reminded me that some of the ashes also left scratches on the windows in that side so you might put some plastic over them as well. I had forgotten about that. But if you decide to do it, you will have a memory that will always be there.
weaselkeeper@reddit
From personal experience DO NOT OPEN THE BAG ! After tasting and breathing in a friend from trying to disperse them through an open window I learned my lesson
Use a paper bag and toss it out unopened, a paper bag will split on impact, plastic bags tend to stay intact on impact.
JimTheJerseyGuy@reddit
Watch this clip of Rescue Me first. Don't let your grandad become of vortex of Lou.
Moose135A@reddit
Do you know anyone with a crop duster? Put grandpa in the hopper and spray him out the bottom!
SlowDuc@reddit
Do it like a leaflet airdrop. Make a package of the ashes with a static line wrapped throughout. Tether the static line to the aircraft in a safe way and throw the whole package out. At the end of the static lines travel, it will break the container open and release the ashes well clear of the plane.
https://youtu.be/DLvHuDSH0KU?si=VSRU3sVEZmQQT7If
newguestuser@reddit
This reminds me of "spreading" my father off the back of a boat. Ashes in a plastic bag in a container. Opened bag went to spread and the bag fell out floating like a balloon on the water. Think it all the way through and I am sure some suggestions on here will work.
Northcalcouple@reddit
Oh man. We all have stories. Coated airplanes. Coated passengers. Whatever method you use, I would recommend a couple of trial runs with a little bit of flour.
We dropped ashes over Monterey Bay out of a T 34 so the ash dropping was pretty straightforward given that you could open the cockpit
Unfortunately, the Pilot did it fairly low over the bay, not too far from the Monterey Bay aquarium and a bunch of visitors called various authorities, including the FAA claiming that the T 34 was dropping some chemical or poison into the bay.
That was an interesting conversation with the FSDO!
Drunkenaviator@reddit
Unless you want a face full of grandpa, this is a bad idea.
NaFenn@reddit
My dad was asked to scatter ashes in a similar fashion early in his aviation career. The window doesn't suck as much air out as you think.
From his description coming back coated in the ashes of their loved one was not well recieved.
He made it quite clear to me that when he passed he didn't want his ashes scattered from a plane for that exact reason.
TheOriginalJBones@reddit
I had a flight instructs carefully explain to me that the window of most airplanes — and certainly that of a 172 — cannot be successfully vomited out of regardless of technique or athleticism.
ClearedInHot@reddit
I can personally attest to this. A friend of my Dad's asked me to fly him over his new home so he could take pictures. The constant turning made him sick, and he let go out the window. He and I had a bonding experience cleaning his breakfast off the side of the fuselage and the tail.
TheOriginalJBones@reddit
He got it out the window?!?
ClearedInHot@reddit
Yeah. He had a telephoto lens on the camera and the window was already open, so he just pulled in the camera and got his head as far into the opening as he could.
rockdoon@reddit
Had a flight instructor that warned me about this, said most of grandpa ended up in the flight school shop vac
Boxerocks08@reddit
I've done it twice out the window of a 172 using a container I made out of PVC pipe and it went well, but definitely think it through and do a trial run before doing it for real.
The container I made is PVC drain pipe (black so it looks more discreet than white water pipe), I think 3" diameter and about 3ft long, with a threaded cap on both ends. I also made a handle out of some rubber bungee straps and paracord to make it easier to hold on to. We ended up only needing a cap on one end, but when I built it I put one on both ends just in case we needed more airflow to flush everything out. This sounds really tacky when I describe it but I swear it actually looks pretty respectable, I can take a picture when I get home if you're interested.
To spread the ashes, my passenger held the container out the window with the end of it well behind and below the window opening to avoid any ashes blowing back into the cabin (cap still on at this point), then reached out the window and unscrewed the cap to let the ashes fly. We made sure to give the container a few jiggles to make sure everything got out before pulling the container back in. This was easier with two passengers, backseat person can lean forward to help hold the back end of the container, but we did successfully do it with one passenger in a trial run where we filled the container with sand.
Tips if you use this method:
-Don't open the container until it's out the window and pointed where you want it to go -Have a handle on the container so it doesn't try to blow out of your hands,
-Attach a piece of paracord or similar between your cap and the container body so it doesn't fly away when you open it outside the plane. -open any air vents, heater vents, etc in the plane to create as much positive pressure in the cabin as possible to avoid blowback
flyingron@reddit
While I've never tried this, what people suggest is to get a vacuum cleaner hose, and feed it out the "clear prop" window into the slipstream. Then use the resultant suction to vacuum the remains out. Make sure that the end is clear of the tail lest you sandblast the paint with grandpa.
RyzOnReddit@reddit
The flight school I learned at in FL offered this service. They used a Cessna and would tie a rope to the wing strut, connect the other end to a folded over bag, and toss it out the big window. This way it didn’t open until it was clear of the plane. Would be way harder to do well from a PA28.
Ok-Money2811@reddit
Somebody tried to do this over the Atlantic with a plane from our flight school back when I was an instructor….
That 182 was white with blue graphics, when they got back the whole right side of the plane aft of the passenger window was off white and the blue no longer visible.
Oh and the tail and stab leading edges looked like the plane took a 1/4 inch of rime ice on an 85 degree C. Florida spring day.
rdrcrmatt@reddit
My first instructor was very clear to never do this. The airflow will pull a great deal of the ashes back into the aircraft.
You seriously need a rig outside the aircraft below it or out on a wing to pull this off and not breathe grandpa in the process.
Comfortable_Golf1350@reddit
I did it years ago for my dad. I rented a 172 so we could fly over locations that were significative to him, and we brought a 5-6 ft long dryer vent hose. We opened one of the 172 door in flight and squeezed the hose in the door. With the relative wind, the door was just slightly pushing on the hose, so it was not moving nor crushing the hose. We left about 1-2 ft of hose trailing outside. My sister was on the backseat and she slowly dropped the ashes into the hose that was pretty much at knee height. It was easy, not messy at all, and that technique made sure we would not have any ashes backfiring to us. It was actually the opposite, creating a little vacuum so the ashes would be sucked out of the plane. After we took back the hose inside and closed the door. It was a great family experience we shared and a nice way to say goodbye. I would recommend it and I would do it again if I have to.
Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit
Remember to get permission from the CAA before doing so.
Impossible-Bad-2291@reddit
Maybe try it first using light dust (e.g. from your hoover).
pattern_altitude@reddit
Flour seems a little less gross for this application.
Brainfart92@reddit
There is a company in the Uk called Aerial Ashes who carry this out using a quadcopter. Might be a better option.
chili_dippin_it@reddit
Third generation pilot here and both my grandfather's and father's ashes were spread down the runway. Grandfather built the airport and business, followed by dad, and now myself.
I spread Dad's with our PA-18 that he gave me my first lesson in. We did experiment before hand and here's what we found to work the best - a PVC venturi system with a small hopper (ashes) on top and ball valve (keep contained until spreading) mounted on the open door with a basic clamp. We found that some media is required to flow the ashes well, we used wildflower seeds from his favorite native flower and they still show up around the airport every spring. If you DM me, I can go out to the shop and take a picture of the setup. I kept it as most of our family and friends are still involved in aviation and it's not an uncommon request to use it.
I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit
As I'm sure you know, the window on a PA28 is tiny. This makes things a little bit more difficult, but also works in your favour by reducing the chance of blowback (open a car window while moving, and you'll find loose objects get blown in more than out).
Ideally you need some kind of tube that you can thread out of the window before releasing the ashes through it. This could be as low-tech as a piece of insulation tube that the ashes sit in. You direct one end out of the window and blow through the other. As an engineer I'm sure your grandad would appreciate the ingenuity.
The problem with the PA28 is that as well as being tiny, the window hatch is right next to you while you're flying. Any fumbling could be a distraction and potentially cause a flight control issue. This is where the tube solution is useful - it's fairly straightforward for you to thread it through the window while flying, after which it just needs to be long enough so that someone else in the aircraft can blow into it. You could even pass it around like a reverse ash bong, and everyone can take a moment. Just make sure it doesn't obstruct the flight controls.
Proper_Hedgehog3579@reddit
Don’t scatter them out the window. They will end up back inside your plane. A lot of places it’s not legal, but if you were to do it here’s an easy way. Pot a 2cm stick, the length of the bottom of an unmarked paper bag at the bottom. With a strong string tied around the center of the stick a few meters long. Place ashes in paper bag and roll closed. Tie with some lightweight twine. Tie the other end of the string to your rear tiedown. In the air, preferably in a sparsely populated ares you can toss the bag out the door. The bag will rear open from the airflow. There will be c cloud of dust behind you at the drop so try to do it where few will see it. The paper is all biodegradable, and all you will be returning with is some string on your tiedown.
Good luck and sorry for your loss.
davidswelt@reddit
side slip.
FlyingRed@reddit
Did this in a helicopter and it went about as well as the stories in here from my fixed wing friends.
It’s a nice thought, but it will probably not turn out at all how you want it to.
ltcterry@reddit
I've never read anything about this workin well from such a small window.
Consider a J-3 where you can open the whole side of the cockpit and reach well out of the airplane and somewhat behind you.
You really don't want to inhale the cremains or have them blow all over the interior.
It's starting to be nice weather time of year. See if you can get a flight in a Tiger Moth.
There is an open cockpit side by side glider (T-21?) that would likely be an incredible platform for this.
Guysmiley777@reddit
How are you set for parachutes, Ridge wallets, ziploc baggies and ankle mounted fire extinguishers?
But seriously, don't try and just crack a window, like others are saying you'll end up with grandpa's ashes swirling around in the cockpit.
Hung_Like_A_Mare@reddit
In a previous life one of the things I did was ash scattering. Doable, but you gotta do it right. Some people would use a pillow case with a rope threaded in the inside. Fill with ash, hold the rope, throw out the window. I liked mine better: I made a Venturi tube with PVC pipes. Stick it out the window and let the suction pull the ashes out.
I have also seen it done poorly - I think the deceased is still haunting that plane to this day.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hi flyers! My grandad has just passed and he devoted a lot of his life to aircraft engineering. I have a PPL in the UK and my family have asked about the possibility of scattering some of his ashes airborne…out the hatch window of a PA28. I just wondered what everyone’s thoughts are on this, whether it’s an outright ridiculous idea or something that could be done. Not something I’ve ever been asked to do!
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