Why do Greeks claim Illyrian monuments?

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PlayfulMountain6@reddit

Calling Byzantine symbols ‘Greek’ is peak Reddit history, next you’ll say the Roman Empire was just Italy with better PR

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

it's NOT Greek, I agree.

but Albanian?

lol.

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PlayfulMountain6@reddit

Modern Greece already has a flag, and the Byzantine Empire didn’t use it

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

learn to read.

I said, "it's NOT Greek"

but it's (obviously) NOT Albanian, also.

stop larping.

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PlayfulMountain6@reddit

The news is that some of the people arrested were carrying a Byzantine symbol in the colors of the modern Greek flag...

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No. They were carrying the Greek flag of the 1920's which was used during the king's expedition to Asia minor. Turks obviously consider that offensive. If it was the modern Greek flag or even the Byzantine flag they would most probably be fine.

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Special-Transition77@reddit

The Hagia Sofia was built by Justinian - a native latin speaker from Dardania - nothing do with the modern Greek state

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Skt_turbo@reddit

I’m always amused how not only Albanians, but also, for example, Turks claim that the Sumerians are their ancestors.

How on earth are you supposed to establish a real connection to origins that go back more than 2,500 years?

Can you even comprehend what 2,500+ years actually means?

Most people here don’t even know where their family comes from beyond four generations.

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Billarasgr@reddit

There is a technique. It is called “maternal mitochondrial DNA”. It is used for ancestry primarily to trace an unbroken line of female ancestors and map ancient migration patterns. You can easily trace people to their origins. For example, among Greeks, maternal DNA has remained stable over millennia, showing minimal influence from later conquering groups such as the Romans or Ottomans. About 70%. The other 30% is mostly from the surrounding Mediterranean area. You can pretty much check online about everyone. So people who say various fascist things are usually uneducated 🤡 People mix for millennia. There is no “purity”, and it shouldn't be because you will end up with inbreeding. Love is the answer… Peace♥️✌️🏻

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Skt_turbo@reddit

You are confusing scientific terminology with actual understanding.

Mitochondrial DNA traces one lineage. One. It cannot prove what you think it proves, and it definitely doesn’t justify broad claims about modern populations being direct continuations of ancient ones.

So the entire argument collapses at the foundation.

And even if it didn’t what’s the end goal here? Validation through ancient ancestry?

Being “100% Greek” wouldn’t make you more accomplished, more intelligent, or more relevant today.

If you need thousands of years of history to feel proud, that says more about you than anything else.

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Special-Transition77@reddit

Mainland Greeks are genetically 1:1 with Albanians, Northern Greeks 1:1 with Macedonians and Bulgarians, and 1923 refugees from Anatolia 1:1 with Turks

A 2023 archaeogenetic study by Iñigo Olalde et al., published in Cell, stated that more than half of the ancestry of most peoples in the Balkans today originates from the medieval Slavic migrations, with around 67% in Croats, 58% in Serbs, 55% in Romanians, 51% in Bulgarians, 31% in Albanians, etc. Per this study, the Greeks also have an ancestry, coinciding with the spread of Slavic language. This Eastern European DNA-signal is mostly present in mainland Greece (30-40%) but drops significantly on the Aegean islands (4-20%)[17] Another archaeogenetic study by Joscha Gretzinger at al. from 2025, published in Nature, confirmed these results that in mainland Greece there are higher levels of Slavic impact, while on the Aegean islands there are significantly lower levels, indicating that the sea acted as a barrier to mass migration.[16]

A study by Garrett Hellenthal et al. (2014), titled “A Genetic Atlas of Human Admixture History,” published in Science, identified a significant genetic impact from Slavic migrations into Eastern Europe and the Balkans during the first millennium AD. Historical contribution of donor source groups in European peoples was based on Polish samples to represent Slavic-speaking donor groups which are estimated to make up 30% in Greeks as a whole.[20]

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Roufianos255@reddit

Yea well said. I believe science shows Greeks are overwhelmingly descended from Ancients but it doesn't make us better than anyone. If anything it makes it more depressing to think how low we've sunk.

Read a post recently, think it was on here, saying that Greeks and Italians think they're better than everyone, the difference being Italians base it on their modern culture whereas Greece is just because of history.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

Albanians have dna that separates them from everyone in the Balkans and links them to Illyrian tribes it’s a genetic footprint we’ve kept unique since the Iron Age

Now Illyrian is kinda a general term because there was numerous tribes that were Illyrian some were Albanian the dardania arranatti family trees still today run in Albania for example .

Albanian DNA shows strong continuity with ancient Paleo-Balkan populations (like Illyrians) dating back 8,000 years, showing80% of paternal ancestry originates from pre-Migration Period populations. Key genetic markers include haplogroups E-V13, J2b-Z600, and R1b-Z2103

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Skt_turbo@reddit

I won’t frame it as an insult, but his argument is really not Strong my Balkanian Brother.

You’re taking real genetic terms and turning them into conclusions the science doesn’t support.

Haplogroups like EV13 or R1b aren’t “Albanian DNA” they’re spread across the Balkans and beyond. There is no population in the region that stayed isolated or unchanged since the Iron Age. That’s simply not how human genetics works.

Continuity? Yes, to a degree. Isolation, purity, or a direct Illyrian = modern Albanian line? No.

You’re oversimplifying complex population genetics into a clean story it doesn’t actually support.

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Martha_Fockers@reddit

Statistical analysis shows that approximately ten haplogroups account for 94.6% of Albanian paternal lines. The findings indicate three major demographic phases: a minor Neolithic component (under 4%) linked to early agricultural expansions; a dominant Bronze Age–Antiquity component (around 72–77%) associated with ancient Balkan populations such as the Illyrians, Dardanians, and related tribes; and a later contribution (16–19%) dating to Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages, reflecting Germanic, Slavic, and other migrations. Overall, the results support strong genetic continuity between modern Albanians and ancient Balkan populations

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ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit

No direct ancient population = modern populations beside some isolated indigenous tribes ,these guys claiming that are stupid af

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KaleidoscopeFar8190@reddit

Anatolian Turks are majorly native to anatolian natives tracing back to neolithic age. Sumerians ARE ancestors to anatolian Turks. Besides newer studies show proto-turks and more modern turks have actually been to anatolia tracing all the way to BCE. We have recently found Turkic and Proto-Turkic tamgas, tengrist depictions engraved on ancient stones, unique turkic kurgans with carbon dates longer than 5000 years.

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

Turks r Turkic, dude.

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tokalper@reddit

You are confused about the terms here clearly, Turkic means Turkic but Turk means citizen of turkiye which includes all citizens from all origins. Anyone from Türkiye can call themselves Türk there is no rule. Some ethnicities are preferring not to and use their own ethnicity name i.e Kurt and thats also fine. But when someone says Anatolian Türk they mean Turkish citizen eith Anatolian origin, not necessarily turkic. It is hard to understand from the balkan point of view because most countries in balkan europe is centered on one ethnicity. Turkey becuse the name looks like it is centered on turkic people but actually thats not the case.

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AlbanianCatholic@reddit

Turkish claims are silly, as the Turkish migrations are a well documented part of history, they moved from the Steppe into Iran in the 10th century, created the Seljuk Empire, defeated the Byzantines at Manzikert in 1071 and then migrated to Anatolia.

As for us, you do realize that in every regard, be it language, historiography or even genetics, we have a Paleo-Balkanic origin. There is no such thing in recorded history as an "Albanian migration into the Balkans from elsewhere", while our language remains a Paleo-Balkanic language and sister language to Messapic (Messapic is considered to be the only Illyrian language written down, it was spoken by Illyrians who settled Apulia around the 10th century BC and lived there until Roman conquest and Romanization). Many groups can trace their origin back more than 2500 years, in history itself, it isn't really that much. We, Greeks, Germans (North Germany specifically), southern Scandinavians, Baltics, Italians in Lazio, and many more.

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tokalper@reddit

Turkey is very complex country, sometimes hard to understand for balkan countries because they are mostly centered on one ethnic group. But turkey maybe has 10 minumum large groups of people with different ethnic backgrounds and they are mostly not immigrants or came to work here etc. All of these groups are local to Anatolia, turks are the latest one to join maybe. So choose random people from the population you could find greek, central asia, hittites, romans, pontic etc you can find everything in turkey because pre ottoman turkic people and ottomans did not killed the population where they conquered but mostly assimilated them and almost all of them mixed with each other people in turkey generally has very mixed dna origins. So Turkic people being related is silly but Turkiye has many people related to almost anything

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riquelm@reddit

I love it when in Ulcinj/Ulqin some Albanians tell me "my family has been here for more than 2500 years". Bro you barely know who your grandpa was

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Blood_Prince95@reddit

He sure knows that some goat was his grandma.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Austrians digged ancient ruins in late 19th cenfury in Bosnia and linked Illyrians with Albanians. Since then, our Rebirth movement and later on nationliasts, became vocal regarding such linkage.

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albo_kapedani@reddit

I bet you are that amused when italians claim to be romans, modern greeks to be ancient greeks, modern persians to be ancient persians, and so on?!

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PaintSad8795@reddit

They claim Illyrian, Roman monuments, Byzantine history and Turkish dishes. What a shameful nation. The last Greek thing was 3000 years ago.

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Affectionate_Loan_20@reddit

I sometimes just understand why cleaning supplies have instructions and I wish they hadn’t

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Aluuvian@reddit

🤣 🤣

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kostence@reddit

Greeks have a weird habit of claiming whatever they desire.

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forwheels@reddit

Did you know Jesus Christ was Albanian too

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Abject_Fun_5230@reddit

Well greece got counqured by the romans and the romans took a lot from greeks and greek tradition. UBy the of jusptoup

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s3rpentor@reddit

They conquered Greeks and decided their culture was superior and adopted them. Sounds right. Every conqueror in history, adopts the culture they conquer. Cause the culture is so special. I am sure Romans kissed the feet of Greeks, cause they were, you know superior.

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Mysterious_Pack3598@reddit

Justinian was a Balkan Latin. Who are today's Balkan Latins? You guessed it. That makes Hagia Sophia Romanian.

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albo_kapedani@reddit

Ah, yes. Konstandopoja - our lost capital.

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Born_Name_6549@reddit

https://roman-empire.net/decline/constantius-chlorus

This is the bust of Constantius Chlorus, constantine's dad. You look at that and tell he wasn't albanian

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Albania didn’t exist then

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sexypeon@reddit

Albania was the first country in the world when Allah created it

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Sure it was, buddy.

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SomeOneOutThere-1234@reddit

r/woooosh

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

r/woooosh yourself. I get it’s a joke. It’s just not even mildly amusing.

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theystolemyusername@reddit

Jesus Christ! Albanian confirmed.

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drpbak@reddit

I laughed way more than I should

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vukasin123king@reddit

Damn Albanians, stealing Serbian stuff again. Constantine the Great, founder of Konstantinopolj was born in modern day Serbia. Go read some books.

!/s!<

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KonstantinVeliki@reddit

I was not born in Serbia but I like your username.

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SomeOneOutThere-1234@reddit

Nuh uh, his name was Konstantin Sjajnović, please respect his name and Konstantinograd

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EpicStan123@reddit

He was Bulgarian though, I tell you. Pureblodded descadnat of our turko Mongolic ancestor Asparukh /s

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cika9bane@reddit

lmao brat

made me laugh as well, kudos

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Blood_Prince95@reddit

My friend…. This made me laugh so hard. Thank you for this.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Ah, yes, the famous Illyrian Orthodox Church of the Holy Wisdom…

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Ujemegaz@reddit

It isn't Greek neither.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Until the Ottoman conquest it was.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Sure buddy.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Read a book, buddy

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Book about Roman empire, buddy?

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Yeah, buddy. But, spoiler alert: they didn’t speak ‘Roman’ in the eastern empire under Justinian. Majority of population spoke Koine Greek. Church liturgy was conducted in Greek. Not “Illyrian”. Not even “Albanian”, buddy.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

According to Justinian's biographer Procopius, the Emperor was born in Tauresium, Dardania[11] in 482,[12] near the city of Naissus.[13] A native speaker of Latin (possibly the last Roman emperor to be one),[14] he came from a peasant family thought to have been of either of Thraco-Roman[15][16][17][18] or Illyro-Roman[13][19] origin.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Who said Justinian was Greek? We’re talking about the Hagia Sofia. But sure, buddy: because a Latin-speaking emperor built the place designed by Armenian architects in a Greek city, it’s “Illyrian”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Check OP. A folk nationalists claims Justinian as a decedant of Albanians. He is not 100% wrong either way you look at it.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

I was never talking about Justinian. Talking about the Hagia Sofia & why Greeks were protesting there. JFC your blatant misrepresentation &/or lack of reading skills is profound.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

It happens that Hagjia Sophia is built under Justinian rule. If kings did not decree it, it would not be built. This whole topic is about such fact, despite the irony of OP.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Yet it was built by Greek architects in a Greek-speaking city & was the seat of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate who conducted services there…in Greek. But sure, because the Roman Emperor (not King) was born in Moesia (not Illyria), it’s an “Illyrian” monument.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Did you inspect the construction 🤣

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

I did. Both times I visited.

Oh, I see: Albanian ‘sense of humor’

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SOHONEYSAME@reddit

dude.

the guy that built it couldn't even speak basic Greek lol what are we even discussing here?

ofc, Byzantium IS part of Greek history.

however, a LOT of the emperors' were by no means Greek, & that includes this guy.

it is a Roman empire, ultimately.

Greeks r Greek.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

If u start at the top of the thread, you’ll see I wasn’t discussing the provenance of Justinian…but whether a church, commissioned by a Latin-speaking emperor from Moesia, designed by Greeks, built in a Greek-speaking city, is an “Illyrian” monument. As the seat of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople (the Greek Orthodox Church) liturgy in the Hagia Sofia was conducted in Greek. But sure, not at all Greek. 🤣🤣🤣

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Your commemt is peak hilarity.

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Quick! Call the Illyrians! I bet they’re really offended by this!

Oh wait, they no longer exist.

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Romeo_y_Cohiba@reddit

I always thought Justinian was actually a Dardanian 🙅

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AlbanianCatholic@reddit

You do realize Dardanians were an Illyrian group?

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RestaurantBoring417@reddit

Doesn't matter in the end, he was a Romano-Illyrian in the end and didn't see himself as anything other than a Roman, he also very likely couldn't even speak a word Illyrian since Latin was his native language

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AlbanianCatholic@reddit

Correct.

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Long_Hovercraft_3975@reddit

Albanian flag next to Emperor Justinian lmao.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

A black double headed eagle over red field? Not that far from the truth actually, such flag was waved during war campaigns.

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Wide_Vast1937@reddit

oh wow, this is… impressive

so just to keep things grounded in reality, Justinian I was born in 482, while that black double-headed eagle shows up with Skanderbeg around 1443 you know, casually almost a millennium later! minor detail, i guess lol

and then, just for fun, that same flag becomes the national flag of Albania in 1912 after independence from the Ottoman Empire

but yeah, sure… totally the same timeline... facts!

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Skanderbeg's greatfather did not invent double headed eagle. It is known fact that byzantines put red and black banners when they proclaimed war, as opossed to golden double headed eagle in peace time. That is why i said that it is not far from truth, because the coincidence is that they might waved similar flags with us.

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Wide_Vast1937@reddit

you literally said “a black double headed eagle on a red field”… and now you’ve downgraded it to just “a double headed eagle” hahaha

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Ha ha

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CodExtension6180@reddit

romanian talking HAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Ujemegaz@reddit

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Theoulios@reddit

I bow to my overlords Albania live forever

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Are you Arvanite by any chance 🤔

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Theoulios@reddit

Frogot this is not r/balkans_irl People here think we are serious

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HArdaL201@reddit

Of course it is, all architecture was created by Albanians

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Austerlitz2310@reddit

Architecture was invented by the Albanians

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Giraysdfd@reddit

Inventing was invented by the Albanians

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HArdaL201@reddit

The universe was invented by the Albanians

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HArdaL201@reddit

Truly the master race

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Mimar Sinan was also Albanian from Aberbaijan.

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md_youdneverguess@reddit

Why are Greeks and Turks always fighting? They're gay, they can just kiss instead

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Weekly-Line382@reddit

Albania didn't even exist back then HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Taki32@reddit

Do you think it would have sparked the same controversy as a byzantine era flag?

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Ok-Letter3775@reddit

Ragebait methods are getting more sophisticated

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saythealphabet@reddit

Ragebait? Such ignorance. The truth is right in front of you.

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Ok-Letter3775@reddit

Oh i thought this was one of those propaganda posts again. My bad, nowadays one does not know what to trust anymore…

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Born_Name_6549@reddit

Lmao justinian is actually albanian though, at least from his mother's side. His uncle justin was born as a pig farmer from skopje

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Outrageous-Dust589@reddit

Albania didn’t exist. Justinian was from Moesia.

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Ok-Letter3775@reddit

Long live Uncle Xhustin.

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Born_Name_6549@reddit

Unfortunately he didn't have kids, so he may have been a little greek

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Ok-Letter3775@reddit

Hah sike! His grandson was my classmate in my home village in Elbasan. Nice guy, however had a weird fetish for Greek mythology tho…

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577564842@reddit

Ragetruth then.

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Current-Tough7084@reddit

this aint even sophisticated, its retarded. Idk much about justinian tbh but i think he was part illyrian, however the other part was greek and secondly greeks were dominant in the byzantine empire. Even if the emperor wouldnt be greek hed still rule a greek empire and follow greek customs making him greek. Like i know our nationalists are retarded but this is a whole new level and idek why they fake other peoples as being albanian when we have had such great rulers like Queen teuta, King Genti, Skanderbeg etc... Give our peoples names and praises not foreigners

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Ok-Letter3775@reddit

chill bro, I meant it's sophisticated because the guy posting this is supposedly Greek, judging by his flair lol :D

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Current-Tough7084@reddit

aha thought u meant the twitter post, cus if u meant the reddit post then yeah thats acc kinda good

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Lucky_Musician_@reddit

sir you are not true

gif

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BonBon_2069@reddit

✝️ selling the church to Muslims (Muhammad the conquerer).

✝️ stealing it with no actual rights.

Muslims taking it back via court of law

✝️:

:

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Ok-Mycologist3691@reddit

Learn history

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Particular-Wait-9757@reddit

John Cena

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KingNo3075@reddit

John Cena has said : I hate Serbia

Because he is Albanian

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oxingames@reddit

turururu

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JiF905JJ@reddit

How DARE Greeks claim such clearly Albanian buildings!! They should be thanking Albanians for inventing important stuff like fire, water, cars, the sun, the universe and everything in between!!

PS /s

PPS thank you to all Albanians in this thread for being people with actual sense of humor

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Straight-Break-4169@reddit

This must be a rage bait post

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FloppyDiskDrives@reddit

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha

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Dunkelhaft@reddit

Dont worry albanianians we have them at the police station 🏍️🏍️🏍️🔫🔫🔫

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nidorancxo@reddit

To be honest Justinian was not Illyrian but he was definitely not Greek either neither was the empire yet. He was the last emperor to speak Latin natively and he came from a peasant family so if anything he was a vlach 🇷🇴

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kitko_01@reddit

Као што и шиптари покрадоше Косово, тако и Грци

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Strict-Being-6246@reddit

do you really want to dive into balkan history that a very bad rabbit hole

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Fun_Calendar_6444@reddit

But arethey really Greeks? Or they are Illyrians, carrying a flag with an ancient Illyrian symbol (the Cross, dont forget Jesus was Illyrian too) which is stolen by Greeks?

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Ujemegaz@reddit

So, when will you come up with the claim that Jesus can't be Albanians, because Albanians are muslims brought from Caucasis by Turkey.

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Powerful-Fox-1061@reddit

we all know the truth capital of Albania is New York ❤️

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gp18__@reddit

You can mention a village in Crete from 5000BC and some guy will talk about how they were actually Illyrians

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Ujemegaz@reddit

It is contageous.

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the-unknown-nibba@reddit

Earth's ragebait is quite advanced...

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Inner-Silver9898@reddit

Beautiful just like the Romanians who claim Latin comes from Romania and the Romans adopted the language

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muformoon@reddit

As a Turkish citizen, I feel deeply sorry for these people. Under the current brutal legal system, they could remain in detention for years. I would strongly advise against doing such things in Turkey, particularly at this time.

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Prince_Hastur@reddit

Albanians cracking jokes and calling ragebait but they lowkey actually believe this. Most of them at least.

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AlbanianCatholic@reddit

What we do believe, which is historically correct, is that Justinian was one of the Illyricani Emperors of Rome. What should be noted however is that him being Illyrian and overseeing the construction of the Hagia Sophia does not make the Hagia Sophia ours. It was built by Greeks, in a Greek city, despite being overseen by an Illyrian. It is part of Greek and now Turkish cultural heritage, not ours.

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