Why do you think people are getting so delusional?

Posted by Bomboclaat_Babylon@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 46 comments

I have been living overseas for 25 years, and until recently, few people from back home (Canada) have had any interest in seeing the world. I was just some oddity and viewed as such. But in recent years, I have family members reaching out, and even wanting to move to places like South-East Asia, seemingly because they think Canada is a dictatorship hellscape. Why?

I don't want to live in Canada, but it's not because I think it's a dictatorial hellscape, it's clearly not, it's a perfectly average country and things are fine. The people that want to move to SEA don't like foreigners, constantly complain about gun rights, taxes that do nothing, and the ills of multicultural society. Then they say they want to move to SEA and when I mention it'll be all non-whites, no guns at all, taxes that go nowhere, and an actual dictatorship, they don't seem to understand what I'm saying to them or why.

It seems like many people have lost their minds in the west, but I've been out of it so long, living with expats that dropped out of deep cultural involvement after the 90's that I wasn't paying attention so much. But the people seem to be getting wierd.

Does anyone else have this in their family? A growing bizarre mentality of running toward the exact thing you claim to be running from?

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3xBork@reddit

“free healthcare” and “America is fascist”

Is the complaint here that they're mostly right?

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Tardislass@reddit

No. America is not fascist and wanting free healthcare without paying into the system is so American. We never seem to want to work hard. Spain labored under a fascist for 40 years. Americans complain about fascism but never want to fight to defend it. All the protesters here are old.

Americans seem to want all the benefits and no hard work like strikes or protests.

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ProlapseMishap@reddit

Americans seem to want all the benefits and no hard work like strikes or protests.

Well, no European is going to get executed on the street while protesting either. Also, I love how you just completely glossed over the years of record protests we've been having in the US.

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FartTootman@reddit

America is not fascist

No, it isn't, but it's obtuse to act like it isn't strongly trending that way at a rapid pace....

wanting free healthcare without paying into the system is so American.

What does this even mean? What healthcare system allows you to take advantage of it without paying into it? You sound like you haven't the slightest clue what healthcare system people in America either want or are running from.

Americans seem to want all the benefits and no hard work like strikes or protests.

Yeah there aren't any protests happening here at all...... /s

I'm not stupid enough to act like Americans aren't the victims of their own complacency, but this ignorant, generic boiling-down of people's actual, reasonable fears that cause them to leave the country they grew up in just makes you sound bitter from atop your high-horse.

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Haunting-Buy887@reddit

Yep. Spain is also known to be one of the most LGBT friendly countries currently so this is a bit of an odd/delusional comment from this person in itself. Most of the people I see talking about moving here are LGBT or looking for good place to raise a family

New_Criticism9389@reddit

You get these people on both sides of the political spectrum, from Germans who move to Paraguay because “Europe has fallen to gay migrant gangs” to Americans who move to Spain/NL (it is almost always these two countries with Americans) because “free healthcare” and “America is fascist”

BrandyGayle613@reddit

I'm American and would love to move to Europe. You're right, I like the "free healthcare", but not for the reasons you suggest. I want to move to a country who believes healthcare is a right and not a privilege. I'd gladly pay for the health insurance I would be required to have. I'd gladly pay out of pocket for medical care. It would still be cheaper and more reliable than healthcare in the U.S. Most importantly, I would live in a country that values its citizens, at least to some degree. I realize no country is perfect.

dermatofibrosarcoma@reddit

That is until you high quality level 5 care AKA triple bypass.

CrazyQuiltCat@reddit

Umm. It is turning into a fascist country. That is not an exaggeration

Significant-Trash632@reddit

I would gladly pay more taxes so everyone could have access to healthcare.

And yeah, the US is becoming, if not already, a fascist hellhole that I want to escape.

highstreethellcat@reddit

I know someone who moved from usa to here, spain, about one year ago. Sold her house, got a nomad visa and moved, sight unseen, to spain. So far she likes it but man talk about balls.

Reason: trump is horrible

daniilkozin@reddit

Canada is one of the most expensive countries on the planet right now. Straight geo arbitrage: same money gets you way more house, food, help and lifestyle here (or lots of other places, not just Asia). Savings grow faster and life feels richer.

Problems exist everywhere though. Just figure out what actually matters to you. Every spot has its own tradeoffs depending on what you focus on. Worked great for me.

ConsequenceFew6931@reddit

For me it’s more of a protest. Keep sending our tax dollars to foreign countries? Cool. I told my country I’ll be moving in a few years to Panama. Once I do they can kiss my federal income tax, CPP, and EI contributions good bye

WhatsItToYou99@reddit

FYI that U.S. citizens living abroad still have to pay federal taxes on their worldwide income. So you pay taxes to two countries unless the new home country gives expats a tax break (and some do). To avoid paying the U.S. taxes, you'd have to formally renounce your U.S. citizenship. Moving, alone, doesn't end your tax obligations to the U.S.

MostlyBrine@reddit

The person you are replying is obviously a Canadian.

Wonderful-Blueberry@reddit

They have to file taxes but they get foreign tax credits so they end up not owing anything. Double taxation is rare.

That’s an unfortunate part of the US tax system, but I am from Canada. We can break our residency for tax purposes and still retain citizenship

Propaganda. Many young Americans have no idea of the history of the world and what trials other countries had to go through. A young American woman wanted to move to Spain because they never had wars or dictatorship like America. Bless these millennials and Gen Z but they don’t have the slightest idea of life abroad. Two week holiday in Barcelona and they think they’ll get a flat in the middle of Barcelona, keep their remote job and get free healthcare. All with A2 Spanish because everyone speaks English.

LizP1959@reddit

I live in the US so the delusional factors are, um, off the charts. Canada looks like an oasis of sanity from where I sit.

adevara@reddit

It is human nature to seek a purpose. If you aren’t able to find your via introspection, you adopt someone else’s.

zedzzzdead@reddit

This is the most sane and spot on comment I've seen on reddit in a real long time. Thanks for the sliver of hope.

Thank you, even though you are too kind. Look at how many grammatical errors I made in a couple of sentences. I turned off autocorrect a couple of days and here are the results.

I usually disregard comments that are grammatically trashy too... This one was just too good.

Born and raised in Canada and the issues Canada is facing are issues that many Western countries are facing. The difference is compared to most of those Western countries, Canada has very long winters and a very work driven lifestyle. People start to wonder what’s the point of living in a country like this when they can’t get ahead. My parents moved from a beautiful small country in Europe with lovely weather most of the year to come here because of the opportunities. If those opportunities are now very limited, taxes keep increasing and the level of services keep decreasing then what’s the point? People here have every right to be frustrated.

Thankfully my partner and I do well financially so we’re very comfortable but the average person is not. It’s hard to make real money in this country.

--2021--@reddit

They were always delusional/bigoted/weird, it's a combination of social shifts + propaganda so they feel threatened, and your disconnect. You're not living with them day to day so their beliefs and behaviors are not normalized for you. They probably want to move to SEA because they believe their money will go further so they'll be part of a protected class above the rules, they'll get special treatment and be catered to.

Tango_D@reddit

Propaganda is telling them that the world they grew up in is gone, which is largely true, and places all the blame on people who are 'other' to how and what they are. I'm in SEA and have met some of these folks. In my experience most of them are white men who resent social and demographic changes especially in regards to male/female relationships and they come here looking for a woman who he can wave a little money in front of her and she won't "talk back" to him plus the lower cost of living stretches their money further. A whole lot of these guys are estranged from their families for being toxic assholes. Canadians, Brits, Americans, Aussies....the core mentality is the same.

lalalandestellla@reddit

Yeah this was going on in the early 2000s so I can only imagine how much worse it has gotten. I lived in SEA then and it was all the loser white guys from Canada, US, Ireland, UK, Oz and NZ who could y get girlfriends back home, making lives for themselves over there getting these gorgeous local women to basically be trad wifes for them. It was truly gross.

Some things just don't change

chiefskingdom420@reddit

I’m from SEA. I spent the last five years in Canada, recently moved back. Yea SEA is much better. Canada might not be dictatorial, but it sure is a hellscape.

Sue-Jones-123456@reddit

Which country would you recommend in SEA that has good QOL and a LCL in which many of the people can understand English?

Singapore is without a doubt the best for QOL, everyone speaks English there but it is not LCL. The two countries that fit your description to a tee are Thailand and Vietnam.

Thailand has better infrastructure, is more developed and has a bigger expat community which makes it easier for Westerners. The only complaints I’ve heard are mainly that it is overly touristic with too much partying going on.

Vietnam (where I am) is more grounded and lots of people prefer the gritty charm. However, Vietnam speaks more English and the country’s economy has been booming for years. My expat friends that are English teachers tells me that Vietnamese schools pay much more (double in some cases) and there are a lot more opportunities here compared to Thailand’s stagnating economy.

Anonymous30005000@reddit

Vietnam does not allow foreigners to own property and has no permanent residence options, which honestly, good on them. But complicated to make it a permanent home.

Northerner6@reddit

SEA is paradise when you show up with Canadian dollars, you’re literally a king. If you’re young and unburdened, it’s great for a while. Go out for dinner every night, rent a villa or a fancy apartment, massages every day.

People don’t realise that it’s super hard to continue making NA money in SA Asia. If you have or want kids, it’s going to be much harder to raise them in SEA. Sure you can burn money for a few years but unless you’re actually at retirement stage, then your retirement is fucked.

Life in Canada is pretty hard right now. But mostly people are just stupid and don’t understand the negatives

Leobluetrailmap@reddit

Social media has ruined the reality of it. People see 30-second clips of someone drinking coffee by the Seine and think the administrative nightmare and high taxes don't exist. Moving is a massive grind, not just a change of scenery.

Ok-Patience5233@reddit

Captlard@reddit

Because they choose not to accept their responsibility in the current political situation of their country and leaving is the easier option in their mind.

SnorkBorkGnork@reddit

I don't have this in my family (they have always been a mix of expats and refugees) but it has been in the news several times lately that Dutch people "flee" The Netherlands to live in some shitty right wing dictatorship like Belarus "where women still know their place" "you don't have lgbtq nonsense shoved in your face all day" and "the locals reject multicultural BS and illegal immigrants" (clearly not getting they'll be one of those foreigners there...).

One Dutch dude even tried to get into Belarus on his bicycle and got arrested for illegally entering the country... oh the sweet irony.

napalmtree13@reddit

Social media and the ability to exist in a bubble. People are more isolated than ever and chronically online. If you had any conspiracy theory* leanings pre-social media, you probably weren't going to develop them further unless you were in a community of people who also leaned that way. Now that we can just find our niche bubbles online, those communities are easier than ever to connect to. Sure, there were online communities pre-social media, but you really had to go looking for them in the earlier Internet days.

So now you've got a community of like-minded people and your algorithms are also fine-tuned to show you what you already believe, because it keeps you on the app longer.

*I'm using this in a broad sense of the term, not just "the earth is flat" or "Bigfoot is real" types. I'm including people who think there's a vast government conspiracy to take their guns, that there's a war on Christmas, etc.