Has Horrible History’s made kids less authoritarian/more likely to question authority?
Posted by I_crave_chaos@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 30 comments
I know it’s a bit of a weird question but over dinner last night I was talking about history with my dad his dad and a few of my mates, what I noticed was kinda interesting; me, my dad and my mates who either read or watched horrible history’s growing up were more willing to speak ill of the British empire and the past uk in general, My friend who had seen it occasionally growing up was willing to condem some parts but was much more likely to defend the government, and my grandfather and friend who have either never seen/watched it or has seen a couple of episodes over the paper because his grandson had it on were much more defensive of the empire.
After the meal I was chatting to my dad and he said that he had learned more about what the empire was like after leaving school and he said he wasn’t super sure how much the teaching had changed but it hadn’t seemed to when I was going through secondary school but even when I was in secondary I wasn’t exactly pro empire.
The reason I am asking you guys is because I never had the view that the British empire was this wholly good or at least better than the alternative thing, and thinking back to what I read and watched as a kid a lot of the message in horrible history’s was “yeah we did some fucked up shit”. Which I believe influenced my later beliefs and made me question what I was being told, and seemingly my friends who had similar experiences agreed and my friends who didn’t grow up with it do tend to take what teachers told them at face value. So I’m wondering if this was just a weird coincidence or if there’s something inherently “question everything” about horrible history’s
Scowlin_Munkeh@reddit
Horrible Histories must certainly be better than films like Zulu, where it was seen as heroic to invade a territory and then slaughter the indigenous folk.
Aggressive_Chuck@reddit
Are you talking about the British empire or the Zulu empire?
Sharo_77@reddit
You've clearly not watched Zulu. They go to great lengths to praise the culture of the Zulu people
Scowlin_Munkeh@reddit
Before slaughtering them on their own territory.
escapingfromelba@reddit
Hand on a second, the Zulus were an empire that had expanded to conquer territory and were fighting other tribes plus the boers were on the move. The way you phrase it, it sounds like some kind of permanence when it was something like 70 years for the Zulu kingdom iirc.
Sharo_77@reddit
Not so much. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of being there in the first place you are allowed to defend yourself. The film finishes with the Zulu king deciding to let them live out of respect for their bravery. It was in his power to obliterate them, but he chose not to.
Heavy_Practice_6597@reddit
The Zulus weren't indigenous you absolute goon, they invaded from the north. Its low education midwives like you that less to crap historical knowledge.
Jaded_Leg_46@reddit
At school you got the sanitised version of the history of the British Empire. How many people learned about what actually happened in Africa, India and Ireland only those with family where generations have handed down the facts. Being encouraged to question authority means you're holding the person accountable for what they say and do regardless of the authority they have because the past teaches us that not speaking up and questioning authority is compliance in whatever it is they're doing.
mailywhale@reddit
I think you are seriously overestimating the cultural significance of Horrible Histories
oraff_e@reddit
Or even how much it covered the British Empire in general, I guess. It wasn't exactly an in-depth exposé, it was a kids' musical-comedy sketch show.
No-Parsnip563@reddit
Also, if I remember the books correctly the empire one was called “Barmy British Empire”. Sure, it did mention the slave trade and stuff but still the majority was some kind of poo joke or “look how many people died in this silly way!”
pointlesstips@reddit
The higher up, the less work and the less responsibility/ownership. It's a fucking disgrace.
HellPigeon1912@reddit
Interestingly, you're onto something here
I grew up reading Horrible Histories. I loved them. I absolutely devoured multiple books a week, so I'm saying this as a huge fan:
The guy who wrote them is a bit of a nutter.
Read up on Terry Deary. He has some... interesting views on schools and education. He's generally anti-school and believes that 11 year olds should go into the workforce instead of staying in education. He's also against public libraries existing
While the books are very much pro knowledge, there's an undeniable anti education stance in there. A lot of things like "challenge your teacher on this and I bet they'll get it wrong!". You don't really pick up on it until you know more about the author, but once you've pulled back the curtain you can definitely spot it.
So yes, while Horrible Histories is primarily about teaching history, there is absolutely an intentional secondary objective in there of encouraging children to question authority and push back against formal education
Opposite_Funny9958@reddit
I think it made some kids feel relieved to hear the nitty gritty cold hard truth and day to day realities rather than battlefield glory and dates of kings and queens.
Educational_Corgi809@reddit
I wasnt really interested in reading or history at school, I was given a horrible history book to read, Awesome Egyptians, from that day I was hooked on both reading and history. I think they are great and anything that gets more people interested is always a good thing
spynie55@reddit
Here's a great web site
https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
BeardedBaldMan@reddit
I don't think so.
I think it's more likely that the sort of children who watched Horrible History and then spent time thinking about it are the sort of children who are predisposed to questioning everything.
How old are you? I'm in my 40s and I don't recall school or my peers being particularly pro empire. The only person my age I've ever met who was genuinely pro empire with their own argument was a recent immigrant from Pakistan.
Optimuswolf@reddit
And were in families that prioritised education/are more educated.
Similar age, don't remember the empire being mentioned by anyone, including me, at school. It wasn't on the curriculum and wasn't very relevant to anything obvious. Things like race issues are different for kids. Theres loads of racism but not much understanding of all that structural stuff, its more lord of the flies!
hamstertoybox@reddit
It makes me feel so old that the child of someone who read Horrible Histories growing up is now posting on Reddit.
Fuzzy_Cantaloupe6353@reddit
Sounds more like a generational thing than a horrible histories thing
SarkyMs@reddit
It is more like horrible histories is matching the current zeitgeist .
Second_City_Guy@reddit
The more you know the more you question what you're told I guess. A lot of people have a rose tinted view of the empire because they're told it was a bastion of bringing civilisation to the world. Then when they find out about all the fucked up shit it makes them question what they were originally told.
Great_Cucumber2924@reddit
Or they ignore the new information because it doesn’t fit with their world view.
MrMonkeyman79@reddit
I dont think horrible histories was revolutionary in that it showed the bad parts of history, it was revolutionary in that it made history more accessible.
Id wager that most people who've really studied history are well aware of the bad things that happened regardless of whether or not horrible histories their entry point.
As someone else mentioned, the thing many remember are the catchy songs. And stupid deaths.
DameKumquat@reddit
When I was at school (before Horrible Histories) the British Empire was barely mentioned - the slave triangle was done age 8 so not much detail, then the Scramble for Africa was a couple history lessons for GCSE.
We knew about the British in India from books where children's families were there, the film Gandhi, etc., but huge amounts of history was totally omitted - Ireland, the Industrial Revolution...
Urist_Macnme@reddit
“The kids these days” phenomenon that literally every older generation experiences.
Whole-Strawberry3281@reddit
People who are interested in history probably look at history through a more critical and analytical lens. I think it's more people who enjoy horrible histories also enjoy history. Correlation not causation
RBisoldandtired@reddit
It might just be exposure to information and education and not the particular source.
Truewit_@reddit
I think it taught a lot of kids to enjoy history and a lot more kids things about history they otherwise wouldn’t have known while not making them feel anything in particular.
The thing most people retained from that show are the songs. I don’t think you should read too much into it.
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