We're Going to Have to Wait Longer for a New Toyota MR2 Than We Thought, But It Sounds (Expensive) Promising

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Jah348@reddit

If it's expensive they've lost the plot.

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pants_full_of_pants@reddit

Nothing will ever be inexpensive again

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True, a lot of people cry that "enthusiasts don't support products," but ignore how often enthusiast products these days are priced like a luxury. There's so much misunderstanding why a product was successful, and corporations just say "the enthusiasts will pay whatever we ask," while other consumers expect us to take that business proposition or shut up for not being "real fans."

Most means of getting a fun car have been moved way up-market, where they're mostly in luxury/premium brands. You have a few exceptions, but then you have the Dodge Charger going from a $35K-ish starting price to roughly $55K and people acting shocked when it doesn't sell as well.

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account1-2@reddit

The other side of this is that the people who want an enthusiast car that is not upmarket probably can't afford it with how much the cost of living has increased. The amount of disposable income the average worker has simply isn't the same as it was on the past.

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cubs223425@reddit

Sometimes, but there are also tiers to this issue. I can afford the new Dodge Charger, but I don't really like it, and I definitely don't like it at close to $20K more than the old starting price, consider its drawbacks.

When you could get a decent sport sedan for $35-55K, I didn't make enough to afford them yet. Now, I could comfortably afford such a purchase, but the market is more like $70K. People will use the low-effort excuse of adjusting for inflation on cars, but ignore how many models DON'T follow that logic, let alone how many other markets haven't followed the trend of inflation.

There's just too much of a tax on being a "cool" car right now. Almost every poor-selling fun car is down to a ridiculous price point. The Nissan Z at $50K for a LSD is a common complaint. Dodge Chargers starting at $50K+ is silly. The TLX Type S was simply not a $60K car. Yet if you go below $50K, there's really nothing there for fun sedans, and even the sports car/muscle car options have dwindled under $50K.

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Astramael@reddit

Toyota has been good at pricing their enthusiast offerings so far. Why do you expect that to change?

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caterham09@reddit

Unless it's a direct replacement for the supra. Then it could technically occupy that same space.

If they do plan to bring the supra back though, they really need them at 2 different price points

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fuckreddit-69@reddit

If only the supra were as versatile as my Volvo xc90. I would trade in for one in a heartbeat. But alas. The supra can't get me to the cabin in winter nor can it haul lumber and soul home from the store. I need a daily driver that is practical at my age. The supra is one of my favorite cars.

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silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)

To me the 90s supra is the only supra. I don't care that the new supra uses a BMW engine but it looks like dog 💩 imo. For the same price the new mustang actually looks good.

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vaultdweller1223@reddit

I couldn't disagree more. The Mustang is a bloat king The Supra, along with the Z, are the only cars to look like the old 90's Japanese sports cars and with similar proportions.

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silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)

A 2020 Ford Mustang GT completed a lap of Nürburgring Nordschleife in 8 minutes and 18 seconds. Link to mustang gt lap time

The z looks alright but under performs for the price while really still a 370z from 2009 underneath.

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

8 minutes and 18 seconds is slow as hell. There are a slew of FWD cars with half the power that did it in 7 minutes and change lmao

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silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)

The mustang still wins in life ie in a straight line in traffic 🚦

But I like driving slow cars fast too.

1998 s14 Kouki only had 155hp lol

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randeus@reddit

I mean, that’s definitely a bad example to use. There are other tracks where Mustangs performed much better, so who the hell knows what that driver was doing

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03Void@reddit

8:18 isn't that great. It's over 30s behind a Civic Type R.

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silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)

But the new civic looks fugly

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MisterDoctor___@reddit

CTR was track spec with hero tires, weight reduction, a roll cage, and a pro driver.

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03Void@reddit

Still, 8:18 is around the time of a Porsche Cayenne.

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MisterDoctor___@reddit

Yea but a lot of the posted times are with rando drivers with no credentials.

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AngryScottish@reddit

Nurburgring times are almost meaningless. It's more of a testament of the driver's ability than the car's.

Additionally, the chances of you getting within 10% of any quoted ring times is comically low.

So, using it as a benchmark is a bad comparison. VIR is a better example.

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silvergoldtopic@reddit (OP)

I was disproving the bloat king remark... Track times matter if you are calling it incapable. Comparison like 1/4 mile times and 0 to 60 times matter too.

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pridetwo@reddit

Disproving the bloat king remark by showing the GT is 26 seconds slower than the Supra around the ring? Weird way to do it. And the GTD being slower around the ring than the ZR1X while the GTD costs $100k more is a weird flex.

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randeus@reddit

The mustang is a muscle car. I think it manages to look less bloated than the other muscle cars though.

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doom_pizza@reddit

X3 m40 has the same engine

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BWFTW@reddit

This is why I'm excited for the new celica. I'm itching for a new a daily but I decided I won't compromise on AWD anymore.

I've done the last 8 winters in my boxster, and while its doable and honestly really good in the snow, it's just more of a head ache than I care for anymore. I'd rather just have the piece of mind of awd for a daily. I want something that's seriously reliable, awd, manual and still a proper sports car.

Turns out the options for that are super small. I'm leaning m340 and thinking of compromising on the sports car part and maybe even the manual part. Would get the amazing B58 and awd. But the idea of an awd celica and compromising on the manual part is really enticing to me. If the new celica is awd AND manual I'm going to lusting after it.

I'm itching for a 996 C4, but I'm not sure if I want to push my luck on a third m96/m97 motor lmao.

My boxster is basically perfect for me besides the lack of awd drive though. But ironically the fact it is rwd is what made it perfect for me in an earlier stage of my life.

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pinezatos@reddit

I'm waiting for the new celica too but I'm afraid since the GR Yaris where I live costs 75k... I hope it won't be that expensive

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AngryScottish@reddit

Audi RS6, BMW M5 touring, and Mercedes E63S wagon have entered the chat.

My E63S wagon could haul souls and soil home from the store, while towing a U-Haul trailer with a car on it, then unhitch the trailer, run 12s quarter miles, sound as good as a Corvette, and be completely invisible to the police.

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SergeantBacon101@reddit

Get a Previous gen X3 M40i

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KSoMA@reddit

You just described an X5.

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ikilledtupac@reddit

it will look nothing like that, and be some shitty 180hp hybrid with a CVT and a spoiler.

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DetroitLionsEh@reddit

I’d be surprised. If this was a Honda S2000 I’d agree, but Toyota is really going after the the enthusiast community

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ikilledtupac@reddit

Fair.

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SignificantBoxed@reddit

Completely off topic but can I ask why you're crying in Maserati? Lol

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ikilledtupac@reddit

its an old meme from a closed caption that said something like "crest in japanese" or something. I am an unapologetic Maserati owner, I like it and don't have problems with it, but it is a stereotype that they are all bad (a deserved one from the early 00's), so now I just think its funny.

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SignificantBoxed@reddit

That's great lol. I love seeing them on the road, cause if anything they do be looking good.

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crunchynibbas@reddit

I find it hilarious that people are expecting Toyota to deliver a bad enthusiast product when their portfolio has the most sports cars / enthusiast cars of any Asian brand: GR Corolla / Yaris / Supra / 86, upcoming GR GT, and Lexus had the IS500 and LC500. Honda should be the one getting clowned on. They literally just released the wet noodle called the Prelude, and have the ultra lackluster Integra.

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ikilledtupac@reddit

No you’re totally right and I deleted it. I think I’m just so jaded by Honda and Subarus and Nissans that crap I forgot one Japanese manufactuere is still exciting

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DetroitLionsEh@reddit

Can’t blame you. I’m in the market for a new car (even though I don’t need one), and I was pumped for the new prelude until the spec sheet was released.

I’m just hoping the new MR2 is exactly what I’m looking for. It won’t be, but it’s fun to cope.

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ikilledtupac@reddit

Prelude is just sad.

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jse000@reddit

I'm not sure why you'd think that when Toyota's been hyping up the G20E

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mustangfan12@reddit

I wonder how they will get the hybrid working. Packaging a big battery in a small car is pretty tough. I could see them doing a mild hybrid setup of 48V.

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Recoil42@reddit

Solid state is pretty perfect for this application. Biggest benefits are high output and cycle longevity.

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K_R_A_K_E_N-540@reddit

Tesla made the Tesla roadster 2,723 lbs (1,235 kg) 18 years ago without solid state. I'm sure since Toyota has had alllllll this time to improve on the tech and not actively lobby against EVs, they should easily be able to make the MR2 lightweight without solidstate

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SavageryRox@reddit

Tesla made the Tesla roadster 2,723 lbs (1,235 kg) 18 years ago without solid state.

You're conveniently leaving out the fact that the Roadster is entirely carbon fiber.

You're conveniently leaving out the fact that changes to the safety regulations over the last 18 years would make the Roadster impossible to recreate or certify today.

since Toyota has had alllllll this time to improve on the tech, they should easily be able to make the MR2 lightweight without solidstate

I'm sure they can, but it will have a tiny battery & absolutely 0 creature comforts in order to keep the weight as low as you want them to. They'll also charge six figures because of the carbon fiber they would need to use for weight savings, & all the other expensive tech that you claim they has 18 years to produce. Did you forget that the Roadster was 80-120k, or roughly 125-185k when accounting for inflation?

Since you want Toyota to replicate the Tesla Roadster, are you going to spend 125-185k on a EV sportscar with 247hp & 200 miles range?

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Ancient_Persimmon@reddit

You're conveniently leaving out the fact that the Roadster is entirely carbon fiber.

It's Elise based, thus is an aluminum space frame.

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egowritingcheques@reddit

Meh. PHEV using hybrid assist to the engine with 10kwh would be about 50kg of battery. Small e-motor in gearbox could provide 200Nm/100kw assist.

In a mid-size vehicle thst could provide a 50% power boost while reducing fuel and emissions 33%. Total output 300kw. Since EV is only providing 33% of thrust the range would be ~180km or so. Rapid charging also. And zero range anxiety because you can always run 100% ICE. For performance applications it makes sense because the EV is just bonus and you keep ICE sound and gearbox for enthusiasts.

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Clover-kun@reddit

The Lotus Elise it was based on weighed less than 2000lbs

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vaultdweller1223@reddit

When's that new roadster coming out again?

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atomicskiracer@reddit

2020, can’t wait!

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HeyyyyListennnnnn@reddit

It also cost $100K and Tesla lost money on every single one sold. Perhaps Toyota might be willing to release an MR2 at that price point under the GR brand and sell it for a loss, but that would be a big change in the MR2's target market and a big change in Toyota's operational philosophy.

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