Why not use first names ?
Posted by Ok-Willingness-7870@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 75 comments
In my culture where have the names like this " The person name, his father , his grandfather, father of grand father, (and so on), Tribe name" Though in documents we usually use the first name, father name and tribe name. And with people we call each other by our name or tribe name.
It is never sensitive to use our name which Americans might consider a first name? So I'm not understanding why first names are very sensitive to use in the first place. I understand that using the last name is the more formal one and middle name usually rarely known to others (I think?) and first name for close people.
So I'm not sure how this system exactly came to existence and why some people would be offended even if you used their first name.
Current_Poster@reddit
Do you mean "being on a first name basis" with someone? The question isn't crystal-clear, sorry.
Outlaw_Josie_Snails@reddit
In the US, years ago, first names were more "private." Using them without permission was like an unearned level of intimacy or a lack of respect for authority and seniority.
I still refer to some elderly friends of my family and neighbors as Mr. (Last Name) or Mrs. (Last Name).
An exception is in our schools; the students refer to the teachers by their last names. When students use Mr., Ms., or Mx. followed by a last name, they are acknowledging a specific social hierarchy and professionalism. It signals that the relationship is functional, not social (a boundary).
In many graduate school programs or PhD labs, students eventually move to a first-name basis with their professors. This transition marks a shift from being a pupil to becoming a junior colleague.
You assume middle names are secret or rarely known. In reality, for Americans, middle names are usually just administrative fillers or honors for relatives, rarely used in social interaction.
Bluemonogi@reddit
First names are commonly used among peers and casual settings and it is not offensive to do so.
In a situation like teacher and student, the student does not typically use the teacher’s first name. Some other situations like going to court you would not use first names.
TheyMakeMeWearPants@reddit
They're... not. I'm regularly referred to by my first name by most people that know me.
hugeyakmen@reddit
"people that know me" is the key part. It is considered too casual in some professional or social situations to only use someone's first name, and this was even stronger in the past. Think "Professor Hawking" or "Mr. Hawking" (or even "Stephen Hawking") compared to "Steve". This is what they seem to be asking the reason for, and I think the answer is that this follows the pattern of a number of European cultures that American derived from
shelwood46@reddit
Although a lot of times when you are waiting in line, they call your first name, whether it's the doctor's office, the garage, or the coffee shop. That's why I am happy to have a government first name, and a nickname everyone I actually am friends with know me by.
hugeyakmen@reddit
Yep, helpful for getting people's attention and generally acceptable, but similarly wouldn't be used in more formal versions of that like fancier restaurants or job interviews
RedditWidow@reddit
Because the US started out as 13 British colonies, and we were following British customs. But Britain isn't the only country to consider last names more formal. It's common around the world in many cultures.
We're becoming less formal though. Many teachers, doctors, bosses and leaders will insist on using first names. I get a lot of professional emails from people I've never met, and they refer to me by my first name. That didn't used to happen 20-30 years ago.
devnullopinions@reddit
In my experience using first names is way more common than not?
boodyclap@reddit
Pretty much everyone no a days refers to each other by first names
Usually you'll refer to older people as Mr/Ms but I refer to my boss by his and her first name every day and it's never been an issue
Mr_BillyB@reddit
I think that's definitely become more common, but a good rule of thumb is to err on the side of caution. Use the Mr/Ms at first. Most people will say, "Mr. Lastname is my dad. Call me Firstname."
IsopodKey2040@reddit
You call most people by their first name. You call most professionals (teachers, judges, etc.) Title Last Name.
If someone's name is Dave Gregory Smith and he is a teacher, his students would call him Mr. Smith. If he's a judge, he'd be called Judge Smith. His parents, friends, siblings, etc. would call him Dave.
Lavender_r_dragon@reddit
His students’ parents would also call him Mr. Smith.
We also call Aunts/Uncles- Aunt FirstName. Sometimes good friends of our parents are Ms. FirstName or even Aunt FirstName (an honorary or bonus aunt).
Scout leaders are often Mr. Or Ms. FirstName- they are an authority but not quite as much as a parent or teacher.
Mr_BillyB@reddit
Elementary school teachers, especially in the Pre-K/kindergarten range, are more likely to be "Miss Firstname."
logaboga@reddit
I believe you’re asking why wouldn’t somebody use a first name when referring to someone else. Normally it’s a sign of respect/familiarity to use someone’s first name, so for instance depending on the job you might refer to your boss as “Mr Smith” instead of calling him John. In day to day life though almost everyone uses the first name or introduces themselves with their first name, it’s normally just a business situation where you’ll call them “Mr (Last Name”
not_a_toucan@reddit
Apologies if this is off-base, but I'm guessing maybe you learned in an ESL class or a business etiquette class that you should address people as Mr./Ms. Surname instead of by first name?
That's good advice in that context, but it's one of those things where they're teaching you to always be extra polite to avoid giving offense. It's usually better to be too formal than too familiar.
In America and other English-speaking cultures, it used to be the case that you'd use last name (often with an honorific) for anyone outside family and very close friends. That's been steadily changing for decades, though, and now it's normally first names between adults in most situations. The exceptions are mostly:
very formal situations like a business addressing a client (and even then only in some industries)
a child addressing an adult outside the family (and even then usually only if they're a teacher or something)
specific subcultures: for instance, in law enforcement it's pretty common for officers to address each other by surname only
Sufficient_Cod1948@reddit
What gave you the impression that using a first name is offensive?
plumberbss@reddit
Nobody is offended if you use their first name.
BeboppingAlong@reddit
Not true. I'm not comfortable with children calling me by my first name without some kind of honorific. (Mrs. Smith, Aunt Patty, Teacher Patty). It annoys me when their parents tell them to call me by my first name without asking me what I would prefer.
I'm not an old grouch. I'm relatively young, cheerful, and enjoy being around kids. But I also know I'm not a kid myself and want that recognition that I'm a respected adult. (Actually, it's the parents assuming it's ok that bothers me.)
Technical-Prize-4840@reddit
Except people in positions of authority. It is often considered disrespectful to call your teachers, judges, police, and people significantly older than you by their first name.
TiFist@reddit
The rules are complex.
Judges are a special case where you need to address them with *very extreme politeness* if you're in their courtroom.
Others are trickier. If you're a co-worker of a teacher of any sort you would call them by their first name (in the US) but you wouldn't use their first name in front of students. When talking about them to a student you would use their title and last name. That reinforces the authority to the student, but the teacher would have no authority over their peer (and would not address each other directly by their last name when not in front of students.)
The relationships get even more nuanced with professors and college students.
stiletto929@reddit
It’s a bit annoying as a lawyer when my clients call me by my first name. It’s kind of presumptuous. I don’t call my clients by their first name, and I don’t really want them using mine either. I don’t correct them - I just get a little annoyed. It is simply too casual. Same way I don’t call my doctor by their first name either.
KikiCorwin@reddit
Or strangers who haven't given you permission to call them by it.
anonymouse278@reddit
There's no way to tell exactly how things like specific markers of respect first arise in a culture- but they generally do. I'm sure there's a something your culture considers a basic token of respect that others would find puzzling in their own. Why do some cultures use different forms of address between siblings based on their relative ages? Why do some cultures call all unrelated elders by kinship terms like mother or auntie? Why do some cultures have different pronouns or registers of speech for different levels of formality? Why do some cultures find it disrespectful to show your teeth? Who knows, the point is that those norms are the shared understanding of those culture. Shared understanding is pretty much the essence of culture.
Historically, in the English-speaking world, you only used first names with people you were very close to. It suggested intimacy and familiarity, and to use someone's first name when they hadn't specifically introduced themselves to you that way or invited you to was assuming a right to treat someone like you were in a much closer relationship.
More senior and powerful people could also use first names for younger or subordinate people, like adults could calll all kids by their first names. So it could also imply that you saw the person you were addressing as subordinate to you.
This is much less true today in most situations, and it is certainly not unique to America. This etiquette in English developed long before the US ever existed.
Most people will not get offended in most situations today if you use their first name, but using a courtesy title and surname is still a safe way to show respect and professionalism in a formal or official setting. It shows that you don't see the person as either subordinate to you or a buddy- you respect them and take them seriously.
TheOwlMarble@reddit
... We do? All my coworkers call me by my given name. I don't know that I've ever been called Mr. X outside a single jury summons letter I erroneously received when I was 16.
It's mostly children that use Mr./Mrs. X, along with a few other edge cases such as when dealing with the elderly.
InvestigatorJaded261@reddit
There is considerable regional and generational variation around this, but I would say that in general Americans are more casual about first name vs last name use than many other western societies.
Revolutionary-Ad3648@reddit
Names! My surnames are poor translations or misnomers from my families' immigration surnames.
Western cultures used first names initially. Eastern cultures bless the family surname initially.
FoolRegnant@reddit
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but you seem to be implying that you find it strange that Americans would be offended if you called them by their first name?
In general Americans use first names for everything other than specific professions - usually we call doctors and teachers by their last name, but nearly everyone else is a first name basis.
In the South you might find it more common to refer to someone as Mr, Mrs, Ms Lastname.
stiletto929@reddit
Or sometimes “Ms. FirstName.
BTLove100@reddit
Almost everyone introduces themselves with their first name and expect you to use it. Children use Mr./Mrs. Blank for adults (but only really in some regions and less and less so) , students call teachers by last name and it's used in some other formal settings. But mostly, first name is the norm.
Now, in a twist, calling someone by only their last name, but without Mr./Mrs. Is the height of casual familiarity!
stiletto929@reddit
I view it as a bit rude when someone calls me only by my last name. Like, I’m not your pet dog!
BTLove100@reddit
That's why it only works if your are very good friends!
BeboppingAlong@reddit
First name is fine if introduced by first name or they direct you to call them by their first name.
If you meet someone in a formal or professional setting, or if they are your parents' generation or older, it's safer to address them as "honorific last-name" ( Mrs Jones, Dr Smith) until they indicate you can call them by their first name. It is a sign of respect.
Most of the time, permission will be given quickly.
No-Lunch4249@reddit
You seem to be mistaken. Its not at all considered sensitive to refer to a person by their first name/given name...
Classic-Push1323@reddit
Western cultures transitioned to permanent last names primarily for ease of record keeping and taxation. It was pretty gradual and happened at different points in different countries.
Most last names originally meant “‘’s son” or describe an occupation, location, or trait associated with the original bearer. If someone’s last name is “Jackson” they are descended from Jack’s son. If someone’s last name is “Smith” they are descended from a Smith, etc. We don’t have tribes but it’s a name that connects you to your family and history in the same way.
First names are not offensive but they can be overly familiar or too informal for a situation.
SabresBills69@reddit
first name addressing usually means and implies you know them, it’s not necessarily best friends. At work you will call your immediate group by first name. with people outside your group you regularly work with you use their first name. if it’s someone you don’t really know, you address them by their last name with a preceding Mr/ Ms or title
serpentjaguar@reddit
We inherited our naming convention from the Europeans, specifically the British. Why don't you go ask them? You'll probably get a better answer.
Gold_Telephone_7192@reddit
Are you saying in your culture people get offended when people use your first name? Because that's not a thing in American culture. 90% of people are going to introduce themselves with their first name only and that's what you would call them. The only situation I can think of where you refer to people by their last names are teachers and doctors.
CollectionStraight2@reddit
No, I think they're saying the opposite. They're saying no one gets offended when they use first names in their culture, but they think some people in the US might
Gold_Telephone_7192@reddit
Yeah they seem very confused
JediLincoln14@reddit
No, they seem to think that's what happens in our culture. In their culture, everyone uses first names.
49JC@reddit
informally first names are used all the time. Formally Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr/other title Last Name
MtHood_OR@reddit
Our first names aren’t sensitive. But our middle name is. Having someone’s full name is a third of the way to identity theft.
FirstPersonWinner@reddit
Most people, most of the time, go by their first name (given name). The only time people are referred to by their surname (last name) is in very formal settings. If everyone is going by "Titles Surname" (e.g. Dr. Smith, Mrs. Kennedy, Col. Jameson, etc.) that is pretty formal.
xxxjessicann00xxx@reddit
Dude what
TiFist@reddit
Short version: Call people what they tell you they should be called.
Longer version: This is a cultural distinction among English-speaking cultures and within English-speaking cultures and you'll just have to learn the cultural rules associated.
In the US if you talk to your peers, it's generally considered rude to *not* use their first name, for example. In some parts of the US this includes your immediate superiors like a boss or supervisor at work. The rules are just complex and situational, and in situations where you would refer to someone as Mrs. Lastname or Dr. Lastname when you talk to them, then you would never use their first name when talking *about* them.
Middle names are technically optional. Many people choose to use their middle name as their first name.
Otherwise it's unlikely that anyone would ever call you by your first name.
They're useful for telling two people apart who have the same first and last name.
foxsable@reddit
Got it in the short version. If you walk up to me and say “call me Streetlamp”, then that is what I am gonna call you.
Dazzling-Low8570@reddit
That's Mr. Le Moose to you.
WhichWitch9402@reddit
What is the question?
One, All Americans don’t believe, say, or do just one thing. Our foundation is a melting pot of so many diverse cultures and out of that comes new traditions.
We use Mr. Smith/Mrs. Jones when introducing elders to others as a sign of respect. Or professional setting. Or a setting say between a child and someone that may have authority over them like a teacher. Another example would be healthcare. When I would go into a patient’s room, I would say “Hi Mrs. Smith, I’m Jane from the lab. Your doctor has ordered some tests so I need to get a blood sample.” Some would go “oh call me Gladys, sweetie” and others might not. That’s OK.
I’m in IT now for a large company. Even from the beginning it was more relaxed. Called our managers by their first names. Even the execs. Business culture has relaxed a lot in the last several decades so you don’t see as much formality unless warranted - judges, lawyers, doctors.
ShesGotaChicken2Ride@reddit
So it’s a matter of … respect combined with familiarity.
I am 43. I still keep in touch with a high school teacher and an elementary teacher. I always refer to them as Mr. Or Mrs. I never call by their first name.
If I had just met you today, I’d call you by your first name because we are closer to being peers; but if you introduced me to your mom today, I’d call her Mrs. _. If your mom and I became more familiar or even good friends, then I’d call her by her first name.
It also comes down to instruction. If I met your mom today and I said, “Nice to meet you, Mrs. Jackson.” And she said, “Please, Call me Carol.” I might still call her Mrs. Jackson for a while until I felt like it was appropriate to call her by her first name. But if my teacher said, “Just call me Robert. We’re both adults now,” I don’t think I would. It’d always be Mr. Carlson. I can’t explain why. And then you have the informal formality for elders. There’s a woman at WalMart that works as a greeter. I’d consider her an elder. Her nametag says Karen, but I greet her with Miss Karen as a token of respect because I don’t know her surname or her marital status, and it’s not polite to ask, so I address her as Ms. Karen and I can tell she appreciates that token of respect.
garster25@reddit
In America, it's First Name (Given Name) Middle Name Last Name (Surname).
I've seen a lot of hyphenated or multiple Last Names, I think to move away from a wife taking the husbands last name. The Last name is the "tribe" name I guess.
We all use First Name 99% of the time, as least in California
No one uses or really even knows Middle Names, that is main used to better uniquely identity a person on legal documents.
More formal or out of respect especially with degrees and such we use Salutation (Dr, Ms, Mr, etc) Last Name. I work with several PhD and I call them by their title just to respect the work they put in. I also work with many people with the same first name, and I will use Mr, Ms, etc and their last name just to differentiate.
FrankDrebinOnReddit@reddit
The US has become a lot more comfortable with first names in the last 50 years. In 1980 you would still have called your boss "Mr. Lastname" (the situation with women's names was always a bit more fluid with Mrs./Miss giving way to Ms.), while today that would not be acceptable. There are still contexts where last names are used for formality (employee talking to a customer, student talking to a teacher, etc.) but most of the time we use first names now even with "social superiors". I imagine it's still a work in progress.
Appropriate-Food1757@reddit
Nobody cares if you go by the first name here
mdavis360@reddit
Kirk Douglas : “What are you saying??”
ThePickleConnoisseur@reddit
Last names are only ever used in formal situations. If anything calling someone by a last name in most situations
West_Guidance2167@reddit
I’m a little lost with your question. We call each other by first names.
DirtParking4216@reddit
Just wait until you find out about Korean culture. Brothers and sisters don't even use older siblings' names. It is never OK to use a teacher's name or anyone older than you for that matter. They are just called ' teacher', or owner, or doctor whatever title they have.
shriekingintothevoid@reddit
If you’re an adult, it’s pretty rare to not use someone’s first name, actually! Unless you’re in an extremely formal setting, a school, or a doctor’s office, first name is the default. In the vast majority of day to day conversations, you refer to people by their first names, and people refer to you by your first name.
lolwatokay@reddit
First name is more common than last other than between strangers or when there is a significant power imbalance or lack of familiarity eternal two people.
Ryebread095@reddit
Naming conventions in the US are generally not that strict. Most people will just use the first name. Last name is usually more formal, but it may be used informally as well. Middle names are sometimes used in place of first names. It varies from individual to individual. Titles may be used with first or last name with last name being more formal. Titles meaning things like doctor, mister, or miss.
Raibean@reddit
If you call someone by their first name, it implies you are equals. In modern American culture there are very few situations in adulthood in which you would not call other adults by their first name. Children are different.
DameWhen@reddit
What was the question?
Antioch666@reddit
Think he is asking why we often use Mr/Mrs/Miss Surname instead of first names in certain situations like some workplaces, schools etc.
CollectionStraight2@reddit
Yeah he's bascially asking why it's sometimes seen as too informal to call someone by their first name in the US rather than Mr Lastname
jondoughntyaknow@reddit
Glad it’s not just me
shammy_dammy@reddit
I'm a little confused but are you asking about situations in which there's a question as to whether or not the person you're speaking with would be called by their first or by (honorific) last name?
sluttypidge@reddit
Depends on the situation. At work nurses are called by their first name. Doctors by their last name (Dr. Lastname).
I'm called my last name at work because 5 of us have the same first name.
I call all my friends by their first names and their parents too, minus one set of parents because they're very southern US American traditional.
TheBimpo@reddit
Why do you think there is a single “system” for referring to Grandparents in a nation of 350 million people from every corner of the planet?
First names are not “very sensitive”.
My grandfather was called at least four different names by his grandkids and great grandkids. All of the names were fine. Every family is different. We are not a monoculture.
Individual_Check_442@reddit
Can’t say I know how it came into existence but it’s just more formal, so more formal situations among adults. In terms of children speaking to adults, not using their first name is simply the symbolic way of respecting your elders.
BlackQuartzSphinx_@reddit
What sort of situations are you referring to when you've seen people hesitate to use someone's first name?
KittyScholar@reddit
I don't know what this means. It is incredibly common to use first names when talking about people, whether I am close to them or not.
Ok-Nectarine-5266@reddit
Family names are irrelevant to most Americans, first names are given personal names from parents that are used since childhood. Most surnames are from an old world culture that has no weight in modern American culture, this is the case with most western cultures.
Nicknames are also very common in the US.
In the Netherlands they didn’t have surnames for most of their history.
Impossible-Laugh-197@reddit
Its mostly used for people who hold higher authority over you (professors/teachers, judges, etc)
NatAttack50932@reddit
It's a respect thing. If you do not know a person, you call them Mr/Ms [Last name] and allow them to correct you. No one actually cares to be called Mr or Ms by their peers, but it is a way of showing mutual respect.
Live_Ad8778@reddit
Familiarity. Using a first name implies closeness.