What could happen if you have points on your license but don’t tell your insurance?
Posted by chasex05@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 187 comments
Mate of mine got 3/4 points for speeding and never told his insurance. Kept putting it off and then it auto-renewed. When he was getting quotes again, the price hiked up so much because of the points and so decided to just stay with his insurance and say nothing.
Obviously, I think this is so stupid but he won’t listen to reason. What are the actual consequences? I’m assuming if he ever got in any form of accident, the policy would be voided when they found out. Surely he may as well not be insured?
Realistically how bad is this? I want to go to him with the realistic things that could happen to hopefully scare him to tell him and have his car properly insured. Or are the potential problems not that bad and actually not worth paying all the extra money if he told them?
Is it possible to get fines or banned from driving if he does this?
ToLurkQuietly@reddit
Speaking from experience - when I made a claim, they took the backdated premium increase out of the payout.
I honestly didn’t think to report it to them, and was kicking myself a bit.
YMMV obviously, and I would advise telling them.
Odd-Direction-3679@reddit
The insurance company would be happy taking his money but if he ever needed a claim his fault or not he will run into trouble. They would not pay out.
cheandbis@reddit
His policy can be voided and they can refuse to pay out. He'd have to then declare on all future insurances that he's had a policy cancelled which will be much worse.
chasex05@reddit (OP)
Would they ever do random checks or find out if he wasn’t in an accident?
Is-this-rabbit@reddit
Insurers often routinely check that the information given matches with the dvla record.
cheandbis@reddit
It's unlikely but not impossible they'd find out. It's just not worth the risk.
Maetivet@reddit
Lying to your insurer is more or less the same as driving without insurance, as the policy will be voided from the day it started if this person’s friend has an accident, they won’t be covered.
SeekingTheWay19@reddit
The insurance will still pay out to the other party if the insured person is at fault, but the insurance will come after the insured person for the full amount that they pay out.
TellMeManyStories@reddit
And I believe as far as the law is concerned, they *are still insured* - you have just breached the insurance contract - they'll just have to compensate the insurance company for any payout.
I actually wish this was a product - third party only insurance with an infinite excess. You pay for all the damage you do. The only actual risk the insurance company is taking is that you go bankrupt - and even then they only have to cover up to £1.2M.
Negative_Map4650@reddit
Company I worked for was basically this - £1M excess with almost no restrictions - vehicle dealership with vehicles from £5k to £1.5m in value
TellMeManyStories@reddit
Do they sell policies to the public? How much do they cost? Would happily pay £20/year for a 1M/year excess car insurance policy...
Negative_Map4650@reddit
We still paid a premium but greatly reduced, £5bn a year turnover so £50k claim was neither here nor there, custom policy covering PLI, motor etc.
anomalous_cowherd@reddit
It used to be possible if you had enough money (like everything), you had to lodge £500k with the Account General's Office as a just-in-case. That was closed down in 2019, but I saw some mention of it being able to be done a different way for £3,000,000 now.
It's unlikely to be worth it to an individual.
ultraboomkin@reddit
Not really the same at all. You’re much more likely to get caught for no insurance. Even if your insurance is technically void/fraud, if you have at least some form of insurance on your car, you’re not going to be picked up on it by police.
Maetivet@reddit
You’re focusing on being caught by police, I’m talking about the result if they’re in an accident.
OP’s friend is - like any knowing uninsured driver - a selfish scum bag.
jimmywhereareya@reddit
Actually, it's very likely.
mazzy-b@reddit
Did your friend get quotes from websites using his details and numberplate etc? Because insurance companies can see that, have been many posts about this before of people having their policies cancelled because the insurance companies suspected false information due to what they’d put into quotes.
Forever_a_Kumquat@reddit
I'm fucked then, cos I often put different info into quotes to see what happens to the prices. Points, different job, different address, spouse or no spouse.
Of course on my actual policy everything is factual, but if they take into account other quotes information I have 12 points, live at 10 different addresses and have 5 different jobs.
soundman32@reddit
If he's stopped by the police, they will ask if he has insurance. The police system says he has 3 points, the insurer will void the policy and the car will be towed and he'll have a long walk home to think about things.
mwhi1017@reddit
They don’t.
Insurance can’t be retrospectively voided - so it would be insured until the insurer makes a decision to void it.
So that wouldn’t happen.
FighterDan1@reddit
I'm not sure why this reply has been downvoted. It's exactly right. The driver is insured until the insurance company finds out and voids it.
bryan_rs@reddit
Because Reddit is full of idiots who’d rather think they are right than learn something.
Dimac99@reddit
If that were true then there wouldn't be people stranded overseas having medical emergencies their travel insurance won't pay for because they didn't declare on the form that they were treated for athlete's foot twenty years previously.
mwhi1017@reddit
Which has no bearing on motor insurance for which we’re discussing.
In respect of criminal law, a motor insurance policy cannot be retrospectively voided such to make a person in breach of the RTA and render them liable to prosecution for no insurance or seizure under 165A. There’s case law all about it.
Of course insurers can and do fuck people over, it’s in their nature - but events as the comment above mine describes, they can’t happen.
Dimac99@reddit
If someone lies about not having any driving offences to get insurance then they've broken the terms and conditions of the insurance and the policy is voided as if it had never existed. I think Aviva will know what they're talking about.
mwhi1017@reddit
I’m sure they do. But you’d not be prosecuted for not having in force a policy of insurance for the use of a motor vehicle on road.
Fraud, maybe.
Adams v Dunne [1978] R.T.R. 281 says otherwise for the insurance offence though, effectively they can void it but have to inform the policyholder. That doesn’t alter the fact there was in force an insurance policy at the time. So perhaps here I’d trust the statue books over an insurer.
Dimac99@reddit
I'm not saying people will automatically be charged retrospectively for not having insurance, after all, people can make legitimate mistakes and proving malicious or dishonest intent isn't necessarily easy. However, in entirely practical terms, the policy is voided retrospectively and all outstanding claims will be immediately cancelled. It's likely that insurers will take legal action against anyone they believe to have made a fraudulent claim as a result.
cyberllama@reddit
Absolutely fraud
Mdann52@reddit
Insurance can be retroactively voided (ab initio) due to misrepresentation meaning the insurer wouldn't have insured them in the first place if they had known the true facts.
For 3 points it's unlikely, but it's entirely possible for this to happen
starsky1357@reddit
Don't be dramatic. Police will see it as insured in the MID and will move on.
soundman32@reddit
You've never watched any of the police shows on Ch4/Ch5 then huh?
Dazman_123@reddit
That's because 9/10 times ANPR flags up that the car doesn't have an insurance policy against it making it a valid reason to pull them over.
On the odd occasion it does have an insurance policy but might have just the driver who's a woman when there's clearly a man driving is also another reason the police will pull the car over.
Icy_Mixture1482@reddit
Two channels famous for their accuracy
soundman32@reddit
Whatever channel it is, when they show the policy stopping someone, asking them for their insurer details, and eventually taking their car away, accuracy is all on screen.
SnooStrawberries2342@reddit
They take the car away if someone has no insurance.
If you lied about points on your licence and the insurance was issued, you ostensibly have insurance. The police will think you have insurance. You'll be caught out in the event of an accident, but not by a routine stop.
SeekingTheWay19@reddit
Can you give a link to an example? I've seen many shows but don't remember one where the car was taken away because of undeclared points on insurance.
Content-Violinist613@reddit
Bit harsh to compare channel 4 to channel 5 in that regard
SnooStrawberries2342@reddit
The police won't ask, they'll instantly know that he has insurance.
And they won't know whether lies were told to the insurers when the insurance was taken out, because they don't have access to that documentation.
That generally only comes out when it comes to paying out following an accident.
virius008@reddit
In that situation how does the police communicate with the insurer, or how does the insurance provider get the information about the points? Does the police officer ring them on the spot?
tarpdetarp@reddit
None of it happens because it’s made up. Police aren’t going to be inspecting your insurance fine print after pulling you over.
bluemoon191@reddit
I saw on a police program last year someone got stopped and the police phoned the person's insurance company to ask if the mods on the car were declared. They weren't and his insurance was voided on the spot. If the police want to dig into something they will.
Greedy-Mechanic-4932@reddit
Correct
But they aren't going to ask about whether points were declared. That'll come to light though when a claim is made and the insurers do due diligence as part of the claim. Or when they complete random checks to confirm licence details.
TheDaemonette@reddit
Yes, the insurance company still want to collect your money with you having the impression that you are covered. When you make a claim they will check and see you have undeclared points and refuse to pay and void your cover and keep your money. If they keep,checking constantly and cancel your policy now then they lose the money you are paying them. Remember, if they are going to refuse to pay but you still pay them for the insurance then they are getting all the money but zero risk of them having to pay out. The insurance company is more than happy if you put them in that position.
tarpdetarp@reddit
It won’t have been cancelled on the spot, they have to give notice.
aembleton@reddit
I've never been asked if I have insurance when the police have pulled me over
-Rhymenocerous-@reddit
Thats because most RPU units have ANPR these days and it checks MID for them to cmsee if youre tax/insured/ MOT'd
Alternative_Route@reddit
They ask you to prove who you are then check the national database (NIG?) that has details of your insurance, they can also check the cars mot and tax status without needing paperwork from you.
turtleship_2006@reddit
Would it be possible that to earn him a stay in the local station i.e. get arrested or would it just be fines and a record
starsky1357@reddit
Vehicle will be seized, he'd be reported for the offence of driving without insurance and let go. Punishment comes in the post.
RgCrunchyCo@reddit
And he’ll have to pay to get his car back, if he can even get it back.
lazlowoodbine@reddit
Yes.
Source: Happened to me when Hastings asked me to do a licence check and I realised I had unspent points (actually only had one month to go of the 5 years they remain for insurance purposes). I was bricking it that they would cancel my policy - because Hastings - but luckily they only raised my monthly payments to £75 (from £40). I renewed 3 months later at a much more regular cost but it was brown trousers time while I waited for their letter.
jimmyuk@reddit
Yes, they do. My wife got 3 points and (genuinely) forgot to add it to the go compare quote at the point of renewal. The company she went with got in touch and asked if she “might have forgotten to declare anything”
hairychris88@reddit
This happened to me too. I didn't have to pay them anything.
I doubt if "good faith" comes into it with insurers, but it can't be unusual for people to honestly forget to add a single speeding offence from two years ago.
If it's a series of driving convictions then it's different.
Financial_Leg_8232@reddit
Good faith is absolutely a factor in the decision making process, but more from a reckless v careless misrepresentation, but OPs pal hasn't done himself any favours in getting quotes with the points and then choosing to stay with current insurer and not telling them.
The other issue is whether the insurer would have accepted the policy at all with the points, even if a genuine mistake.
If the underwriting criteria is that they would not offer a policy at all to somebody with more than 3 points and someone has 4 points, then no matter how genuine the mistake the policy will be void from the beginning (ab initio to be pompous).
Straight-Refuse-4344@reddit
Trust me they will find out ASAP eithin a few month usually and then cancel the policy i know a chap who did this his insurance was £2600 its now £5400 and has to tell them he had a policy cancelled
takesthebiscuit@reddit
If the insurance company is asked to make a payment they may look for anything that would allow them to avoid paying, like seeing if the policy was being followed
If your friend isn’t involved in any accidents then he is covered, if he needs cover then he isn’t
iwantmuscle@reddit
Insurance companies communicate with each other. In the event of an accident all checks are made. Remember Insurance companies can refuse to cover you in future, possibly leaving you no Insurance to drive or offer it on expensive terms
HeartyBeast@reddit
They’ll find as soon as he needs the issuance. He’s effectively uninsured
jimmywhereareya@reddit
Yes. Insurance companies will do due diligence before they agree to insure you. You might think you've found a great deal online, but you won't be insured until they tell you that you have been accepted for insurance
spoons431@reddit
Also if they find out as the result of an accident where you crash into a third party they'll cover the losses of the third party and then aggressively come after you to recover the costs!
Massive-Magician-240@reddit
If it’s your fault, if not no one cares even if you have a licence.
Scotty5113@reddit
I called the insurance company to tell them that someone on my policy had got some speeding points. They already were aware and had updated the policy renewal fee. They told me that they automatically get updated when someone gets points.
Dangerous-Boot-3036@reddit
If he has an accident it would become apparent.
They would then ask why he didn't tell them.
Because it has auto renewed he could potentially pretend to have forgotten to update the insurers and assuming they accept that it is unintentional misrepresentation they would deal with the claim but he would have to pay the difference of what they charged vs what they would have charged if they knew.
If they wouldn't have insured him they would void the policy.
If they believe it was intentional misrepresentation they would void his policy on grounds of fraud (which is like normal policy voidance on steroids for the impact going forward)
This really is not worth it for him, but it's his idiotic mistake to make
r08shaw@reddit
We had a car stolen off the drive. First thing the insurance company did was get the DVLA on the phone, with us, to check if my wife and myself had undeclared points on our licences.
We didn't, but if we did, they said they would have voided our insurance!!
PlantPsychological62@reddit
It isn't a problem untill it is, by not declaring it's classed as giving false information and in the event of a claim or incident then your insurance is likely deemed invalid... And you can look up those consequences
Satoshiman256@reddit
Basically, it's close to having no insurance at all. The only thing it will be useful for is if the police ask you to show your insurance. If you have an accident, then it will probably void the insurance.
Few_Scientist5381@reddit
Is it an English or Irish driving licence?
chasex05@reddit (OP)
english
Few_Scientist5381@reddit
Get an Irish license, use that and keep it clean.
confusing_roundabout@reddit
I rang my insurance to tell them about the points on my license and they just laughed and said there's no reason to tell them as they know already.
DreamsComeTrue1994@reddit
I don’t think my insurance actually asked anything about points on the driving license.
Annual-Reputation674@reddit
I work in insurance. Random checks are done. If it's discovered they may give him the option to pay the difference in price. They may also cancel the policy due to misrepresentation. If this happens he'll struggle with insurance prices for five years as he has to declare it for five years and some companies will just decline cover based on that.
He can just call the insurance company and pay the difference now to avoid it. It would definitely come to light if he had to make a claim.
Android_slag@reddit
They know! But they're getting his money without having the risk of paying out
desertdodo123@reddit
that’s simply not true
Android_slag@reddit
DVLA database. Accessed by every constabulary and insurance company shows the status of every vehicle for valid insurance, road tax, registered and named driver details including their license status with the codes for any offences.
triptip05@reddit
Voided insurance.
If he gets involved in an accident he could end up getting done for driving without insurance. He would also be liable for costs and very unlikely to get insurance again.
jimbozzzzz@reddit
Nothing really happens till you make a claim , they point out ANY inconstancy and cancel your policy
Eastern-Move549@reddit
If he has an accident they will check his license and then void the policy.
At best he will end up in court with the other insurance company suing him for the cost.
Yuji_Ide_Best@reddit
The friend is an idiot and may as well be begging for problems.
Save himself a few quid today, only to cost himself far far far more in the future. Not a trade a rational person makes.
SidJamesDesigner@reddit
Exactly this. Penny wise pound stupid. The insurance companies aren't messing about when it comes to this stuff either
Yuji_Ide_Best@reddit
Its plainly a dumb risk. Even the best ever driver can be stuck at a red light & crashed into at no fault of their own.
What does the guy expect to happen soon as the insurance is involved?
HonkersTim@reddit
Well shit, TIL I'm supposed to notify my insurance if I get points on my licence? I got 3 points a few years ago, I never even thought about it!
Off to check if I have still have any!
OkTechnician4610@reddit
If there is an accident it’s likely they will check & if they were not told they can void the insurance. Then liable to be sued if it was not ther other persons fault. & done by the police.
SoggyWotsits@reddit
I feel like I’m losing the plot, it’s a driving LICENCE in the UK, not license! But that aside, it would invalidate the insurance. It wouldn’t seem like a problem, until there was a need to claim.
Theunluckyone7@reddit
I was under the impression insurance companies do cross reference information provided as they have access to databases
New_Line4049@reddit
Some insurers have you share you licence details via DVLA so that they can access and check this way, but not all insurers do this.
desertdodo123@reddit
they cross reference some databases. they have CUE for claims, Lexis Nexis for No Claims Discount. don’t think they have one for insurers to check points on license. but they can request the driving license summary to check for points
TheWyrdSmyth@reddit
Yep - my place requests driving licence number and DVLA check code for all new business at inception. If there're any non-disclosures, you're given a chance to pay an additional premium if applicable, after quoting to add the non-disclosure to the file. It's also noted in the background if you have a history of non-disclosure, and if your policy is cancelled, or cover voided because of it, it's listed on SIRA for other insurers to be made aware.
danddersson@reddit
I contacted my insurance company to advise them of apeeding points, and they said I had not needed to . They have access to your licence details, and my policy was automatically updated.
New_Line4049@reddit
Worth noting this is only true in some cases, not all insurance companies have this access.
ObiToo00@reddit
Yeah LV does this. It specifically says on the policy docs “don’t bother calling to tell us”
danddersson@reddit
It was, indeed, LV...
New_Line4049@reddit
Basically, yes. If he has an accident his insurance will pay out thev3rd party damages, but not his. They are then likely to pursue him through the courts to recover what they paid out, and any associated admin and legal costs from both the claim and their pursuing of him through the courts. Also, his policy would be considered cancelled by the insurer. This is something he will have to declare for life (and its stored on a database all insurers have access to, so failing to declare wont let him dodge it) and oh boy, if he thinks insurance cost is high with 3 or 4 points he'll be in for a very nasty surprise with a cancellation on record. To be clear, they could find out even without him being involved in an accident. Also, finally as he is not in accordance with the terms of his insurance he could be prosecuted for driving without insurance.
ResplendentBear@reddit
Voided ab initio. Meaning as if it never happened.
(Note, you can get away with non-disclosure if it's accidental and not material to the claim. But points are indicative of general driving style, so that's not applicable here.)
The insurance company would still be liable for a 2rd party if he hit someone due to how insurance law works. But they wouldn't be obligated to replace/repair his car.
Could also be prosecuted for fraud, although that's very unlikely.
Source - work in insurance
MrAnonymousTheThird@reddit
Don't they personally go after them after the fact? They'll pay the third party and either pass on the debt to collectors or chase it up themselves. Am I mistaken?
Massive-Magician-240@reddit
There’s case law from 2013 and years previously as well I can’t remember the exact names on the cases but simply the insurance company is still liable for the third party costs. Liable means they have to pay, not they have to pay an try and claim it back
BillinghamJ@reddit
My understanding from founding a motor insurance company was that you could only truly void if it's a risk you wouldn't have accepted at the time. Otherwise all you can do is charge the difference in premium. And as you say, 3rd party liability wouldn't change regardless.
Jasey12@reddit
They have access to an internal database, they 100% know he has the points, They're just waiting on the time he needs to make a claim so they can void his insurance.
richardwhiuk@reddit
Insurance will be invalid.
Driving without valid insurance is six points and a £300 fine, if you dispute the fine is unlimited.
Peterwhite100@reddit
Not disclosing material fact = policy cancelled or void.
Problem here is if he has an accident fault or non fault then insurance can say
“Ahh you didn’t tell us about points, we are voiding your insurance”
That means he wasn’t insured at the time of the accident, which means he’s looking at least 6 points.
Insurance companies aren’t our friends, they simply look for anyway NOT to pay out.
This scenario would be ideal for them to not pay out.
cdh79@reddit
in the UK, even if your car insurance policy is proved void (invalidated from the start), your insurer is still legally obligated to pay for third-party personal injury and legal costs.
Reddit +1 Under the Road Traffic Act 1988, insurers have a duty to ensure innocent third parties are compensated, regardless of misrepresentation by the policyholder. However, this does not mean you avoid the consequences. Key Consequences of a Voided Policy: Insurers will recover costs: While your insurer will pay the third party initially, they will turn their attention to you and legally pursue you to recover 100% of the costs paid, which can be massive. Massive Financial Liability: If you have voided insurance, you are effectively driving without insurance. You may be liable for hundreds of thousands of pounds in damages, including the other party's medical bills, loss of earnings, car repair/replacement, legal fees, and recovery costs. No Cover for You: Your insurer will not pay for any damage to your own vehicle or your own injuries. Future Insurance Issues: Having a policy voided is the most severe insurance scenario. You will have to declare this on all future applications, which will make getting insurance incredibly difficult and expensive. Prosecution: Driving without insurance is illegal, and you could face fines, penalty points, or a driving ban.
Be Wiser Insurance +3 When Can They Void the Policy? Your insurance can be made void if they believe you purposely or recklessly didn't disclose important information (misrepresentation), such as driving convictions, modifications, or lying about the main driver.
Be Wiser Insurance +1 Disclaimer: The information provided is based on UK Road Traffic Law and general insurance practice.
To sum up. It's not bloody worth it.
isnecrophiliathatbad@reddit
Not only is his insurance void, but if they found out, they could charge him with insurance fraud as well.
Itchy-Ad4421@reddit
What insurance? 😂
If he hasn’t told them then he’s not insured. He’s just wearing camouflage so at a glance everything is legal and he’s going to be taxed / MOT’d / insured but the first accident he has he’s fucked.
Sir_Edna_Bucket@reddit
The insurers do random checks every so often, I was picked up on one when I forgot to declare a named driver had been involved in a not-at-fault accident a few months prior.
gazglasgow@reddit
The MID will show valid insurance which would likely satisfy the police 👮 during any stops but if your friend is involved in an accident and insurance is involved he will get found out. Insurance companies will check your record as part of the normal claims process. If the accident is your fault the third party damage is always covered but you will not get your car repaired and it’s likely you may get sued by your insurance company for any payouts to any third parties.
Max_Abbott_1979@reddit
My father in law didn’t declare his 6 speeding points to me when he asked to be added as a named driver on the car. The insurance company let me add him then a month later cancelled the policy citing his undeclared offences.
FranzLeFroggo@reddit
One of my named drivers got points without telling me. When I renewed, my insurance knew straight away
Smooth_Criminal6343@reddit
Not declaring points on your driving licence to your insurer can have serious consequences, especially if you later need to make a claim. In the UK, situations like this are handled under the Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Act 2012 (CIDRA), which focuses on whether you took reasonable care when providing information to your insurer.
When you take out a policy, insurers rely on the accuracy of your answers to assess risk. Licence points—whether for speeding, using a mobile phone, or more serious offences—can significantly affect how they price or even offer cover. If you fail to disclose them when asked, this is treated as a misrepresentation. CIDRA then looks at your state of mind at the time: whether the non-disclosure was deliberate, reckless, or simply careless.
If the insurer decides the non-disclosure was deliberate or reckless—for example, you knew you had points but chose not to mention them—then the consequences are severe. The policy can be voided from the outset, meaning it is treated as if it never existed. Any claim you make could be refused entirely, the insurer may keep the premium, and the incident could even be recorded as fraud, which makes future insurance much more difficult and expensive to obtain.
If, however, the non-disclosure is considered careless—which is more common, such as forgetting or misunderstanding the question—CIDRA applies a more proportionate approach. The key question becomes: what would the insurer have done if they had known about the points? If they would have declined to insure you altogether, they can still void the policy and refuse the claim. If they would have charged a higher premium, they can reduce any claim payout proportionally. For instance, if you paid £500 but should have paid £1,000, they may only pay 50% of your claim. Alternatively, if they would have applied different terms (such as a higher excess), the claim is settled as though those terms were in place from the start.
In a typical claim scenario, this often only comes to light after an incident, when the insurer checks your driving record. For example, if you had six undisclosed points and submitted a £10,000 claim, the outcome could range from no payout at all (if the insurer would never have covered you or believes the omission was deliberate) to a reduced settlement based on the premium difference.
Beyond the immediate claim, there are longer-term consequences. You may have to declare that a policy has been voided or cancelled, which is viewed very negatively by insurers—often more so than the points themselves. This can lead to significantly higher premiums or difficulty obtaining cover in the future.
One important detail is that insurers must ask clear and specific questions. If the question about convictions or points was vague or unclear, this can work in your favour under CIDRA, as the responsibility is partly on the insurer to obtain the information properly.
Overall, failing to declare points might seem minor at the time, but it can undermine your entire policy. Under CIDRA, even an honest mistake can reduce a claim payout, while a deliberate omission can leave you with no cover at all when you need it most.
MrAnonymousTheThird@reddit
Put it this way
You don't have insurance. You get into an accident, damaging a car or hurting someone. You are personally going to be chased from £5000 upwards of £1,000,000+ if someone is severely injured. That debt follows you, you'll be paying it off with interest
His insurer will cough up the cost to the third party but then they'll go after him personally, or they'll pass it on to debt collectors. Assets and valuables seized
Yep_OK_Crack_On@reddit
His insurer will NOT cough up, because he is NOT INSURED. that’s what not insured means
MrAnonymousTheThird@reddit
You are WRONG read up on ROAD TRAFFIC ACT section 151
Yep_OK_Crack_On@reddit
Oh that is cool. Pleased to stand corrected
MrAnonymousTheThird@reddit
Glad to hear
Stuvas@reddit
I had similar to this, my dad was on my insurance for a shared car. He got six points on the same speed camera, about six months apart. He didn't tell me he got six points from the same speed camera six months apart.
About a year later, he drove into the side of someone's Tesla when he was pulling out of a junction not paying proper attention. I was very lucky to only lose two years of my no claims bonus. He is no longer on my insurance or sharing a car with me.
thebaronharkkonen@reddit
If he has any kind of accident, he's absolutely fucked. He will pass the sniff test by reg scanners, but for all practical purposes - he's uninsured.
So any accident and he's out of pocket for both cars, maybe a ban for driving without insurance, and certainly going to get blacklisted for a good while between the insurers. Ruinous.
Reallyboringname2@reddit
*asking for “a friend”
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Personally, I'm appalled by his attitude.
Additional-Switch912@reddit
I’ve always assumed that as they normally ask for photos of your driving license that they’d check to see if you have any points or anything else relevant ie need to wear glasses, other medical restrictions etc or any other thing that the insurer would need to know to about. You highly risk the insurance being cancelled not declaring everything they need to know
Atomic-Bell@reddit
Have opened 15 insurance policies and not once been asked for a picture of driving licence. They don’t “normally” ask you for such.
Additional-Switch912@reddit
Over the last 5 or so years both my sons and I have had to provide photos of our driving license on the insurers portal often within 14 days of starting a policy or it gets cancelled. Whether that be with commercial van insurance, car and motorbike insurance unless it was a renewal with an existing insurer. Between us as a household we have 8 vehicles to insure. Esure/adrian flux, Admiral, Shiela’s Wheels, BeWiser have all asked for it
kliccit@reddit
My Dad is a named driver on my policy, and when I went to renew the said there had been a change on his license (name dropped him and everything). When I asked him he told me he had been given three points which he forgot to tell me about so I'd say they definitely do know.
Upstairs-Quail5709@reddit
They'll do anything to avoid paying out in any claim.
zorba-9@reddit
If you renew it with the same company automatically, they won't know; don't cause an accident yourself. One who knows
srig8@reddit
In the event of a claim, the insurer may check his driving license, and if undisclosed points are found, they may cancel the policy and he will quickly find himself in an accident as an uninsured driver, which can have massive consequences.
Neat-Ostrich7135@reddit
Specifically the insurer will not pay out on his vehicle, and will pursue him to recover costs for the other vehicle.
Neat-Ostrich7135@reddit
If he has a crash they will void his insurance and refuse to pay out.
ApexChaser1@reddit
I genuinely forgot to add points at auto renewal for a second policy. I had a polite email a week or so after renewal to say I've got points but not declared them. Genuine oversight and they were kind enough to let me add them.
As others have said, if he gets his policy cancelled, he can look forward to several years of very expensive or hard to get insurance.
New-Deal2694@reddit
I'd say it's low chance of happening, high impact if it does. So a high risk choice.
You would have your insurance cancelled, ruining prices on insurance for the long term, and could well end up with even more points on the license for driving without insurance etc.
imo not worth the savings you get by telling the lies in the first place
iwantmuscle@reddit
This is how you spell "Licence" in the UK
Sea-Still5427@reddit
Your insurer could potentially prosecute you.
Fun-Wolverine-3284@reddit
A mate got caught a few years ago after a bump and had to pay the £20 extra difference it should have cost with the points.
Pumpytums@reddit
People also forget they can check your claim history. Recently when getting a quote online they asked me to call them to discuss. Turned out I got the date of a claim off by a month. This was a company I never insured with before. They were okay as it was just bad memory on my part.
whynousernamelef@reddit
They know. It comes up on their "system". Last time I got points and I told them they were able to look it up and see how many it was.
Traxxas_Basher@reddit
“Mate of mine”… 🙄
iwantmuscle@reddit
It's called "serious non disclosure of material fact". Any claims could be refused potentially leaving you to pay third party claims from hundreds to millions of pounds, not to mention legal costs and damage to you or your car
yorkspirate@reddit
He could end up being sued for the cost of having a fault accident, can they afford to pay out £50k ??
jimicus@reddit
£50k?!
He wishes.
If he's in an accident that results in significant personal injury - the payouts for that are based on how severe the injury is and its impact on earnings potential.
The example we used to use when I worked for an insurance company was "drove into a bus stop full of student doctors" - they're students, which means they're young, which means they've got a full lifetime of earnings they need to be compensated for.
Rumour is this did actually happen.
signol_@reddit
I used to work in a town famous for racehorses. Imagine skidding and wiping out a couple of multi million £ horses..
jimicus@reddit
And even if you have the driving skills of Lewis Hamilton, you have absolutely no control over other road users or the road itself. A diesel spill, some idiot cutting in forcing you to take evasive action that goes wrong - who knows?
FeedingTheBadWolf@reddit
Ah yes but, is that different? If the OP friend isn't actually at fault? Or, what is the law there?
I know I remember hearing about a case where someone didn't have a licence and someone jumped off a bridge and killed themselves by basically colliding with the defendant's car (who couldn't have done a thing to stop it obvs) and D was driving without a licence, as it happens. And the law (either at the time, or still, currently) was worded something like "causing death whilst driving without a licence" so he was done for it, which was massively unfair. Like, do him for driving without a licence, sure, but for the death? I think the case was basically about the unfair wording and I dno if they changed it since . Dim A Level Law memory 😂
jimicus@reddit
“Responsible to pay” and “at fault” are two different things here.
The diesel spill example : it’s impossible to know where that came from. So there’s nobody else to chase for the money. So OP’s friend is still on the hook.
External-Praline-451@reddit
Plus, add in all the legal fees you'd be charged, which can be just as bad as the compensation side.
jimicus@reddit
To be honest, at that point it doesn’t really matter whether the total cost is £1 million or £10 million. You’re bankrupt either way.
ahtfbjkgrfh456@reddit
I got 3 points and didn’t tell my insurance company until a few months afterwards purely because it slipped my mind. They were absolutely fine with it, and it didn’t change the policy. He should definitely let them know, it’d be worse not to and be found out.
74jax@reddit
This is bizarre, why would he pay for insurance to not be covered if needed?
So at my insurance company when you take out a new business quote we carry out a valuations check, usually within 6 weeks. If it's flagged you have the option of paying the additional premium or cancelling.
If a claim is made, a claim validation check is made. So it would be picked up then. His paperwork will clearly say if the information held is not correct it will affect if a claim is paid out. Claims will then cancel his insurance, backdated to either the beginning of the insurance or when his points were added.
It's worth knowing, if at renewal, he did various quotes on various aggregators, some with the points and some without - this 'could' get flagged for a renewal validations check.
A police stop will show his vehicle insured on MID.
I'm not sure why he would want insurance - pay for it - knowing his information is incorrect so at risk of being cancelled. That's back to front for me.
quellflynn@reddit
why is the system not automated?
bambatigerlilly@reddit
I did the same for a few years - honest mistake - policy just kept on auto-renewing and I didn’t really think about it.
Then, last year, I got a 6 month ban for ‘totting up’ - basically 4 x 3 points for speeding camera stupidity - my idiocy.
And when I told my insurers - who I had been with for over a decade without a single claim - they asked why I had not declared the points (which didn’t happen in just the three months since the auto renewal) and told me they would not insure me once the ban was over.
And let me tell you - there if you have a TT99 (totting up ban) it stays on your record for 4 years and not a single insurer will touch you. I had to call in loads of favours and pay a fortune for the policy I now have.
So - even if your mate thinks he won’t get into an accident - it’s not worth the pain if he gets to 12 points.
when_music_hits@reddit
They claim they want you tell them your convictions and threaten to cancel your insurance. They don't cancel your insurance. What you are doing though is leaving yourself to be seen as an uninsured driver if/when an accident happens.
TheWyrdSmyth@reddit
They can absolutely cancel/void the insurance for non-disclosure of claims and convictions.
carguy143@reddit
It's about time insurance companies just started talking to each other electronically and just getting points or claim history from each other rather than relying on the honesty of the public.
TheWyrdSmyth@reddit
There are a few different databases insurers use for claims, and due diligence will find non-disclosed claims.
For points, most insurers ask for a driving licence check code from the DVLA to confirm licence history. Non disclosure can and will be found out eventually.
FeedingTheBadWolf@reddit
As far as I know there are no bans or fines for this specifically, but look it up in the Road Traffic Act 1998.
Absolutely the insurance would not pay out if your friend were in an accident. Best case scenario they would refuse to cover him; worst case scenario they would refuse to cover third parties. That could mean he could be personally sued and be liable for huge sums of money if he injured someone. Payouts can run into hundreds of thousands of pounds for broken bones and surgeries, and into the millions for deaths. Ask him if that is worth the risk? He'd be paying that debt until his dying breath. Insurers will do anything they can to avoid paying out and so this is the type of thing they will perform standard checks on if there is a claim.
It's also insurance fraud.
I mean, technically, I suppose he could be deemed to be driving without valid insurance, which would be a crime, but I don't know if it would happen that way. The main thing to worry about is whether he got into an accident. Nobody plans to, but it happens.
smoulderstoat@reddit
They will pay out for any third party claims, because they are legally obliged to. They are entitled to try to recover that from the insured but must pay out first.
Similarly the driver cannot be prosecuted for driving without insurance, because he is in fact insured. His insurance is valid until it is voided but (unlike other forms of insurance) the insurer cannot treat it as void from the beginning, only from the point at which they actually cancel it.
FeedingTheBadWolf@reddit
Thanks for that! Everything I looked at said they could treat it as void rather than voidable, as though it had never existed to begin with.
When you say they are entitled to recover that from "the insured" do you mean the person with the points? Let's call them A. So if A crashes into B and it's A's fault, you're saying the insurance will pay out to B, but then they will try and indemnify themselves by claiming against A?
What are the statutes/cases that says the above btw? (Not because I'm doubting you - because I'm genuinely interested!)
ljr69@reddit
Noooo no no no no. Seriously bad idea.
jimmywhereareya@reddit
He'll find out if he ever has to make a claim
ARobertNotABob@reddit
If he comes to claim, he's going to find his insurance invalid.
Insert_Random_Acct@reddit
Worked for a large motor insurer for years... Depending on their T&C's, They'll likely void his policy (treat it like it never existed), refuse to pay out on any claim and charge him the full premium for the year anyway. If he has a fault accident, the third party insurer will then pursue him for their claim costs personally.
Future insurers may ask if he's ever had a policy voided. When they find out he has, they may refuse to cover him, or will hike the premium up a load.
In short... It's not worth hiding it for the sake of a few quid in additional premium at his next renewal.
smoulderstoat@reddit
They cannot refuse to pay a third party. Motor insurers are required by law (s.151(6) Road Traffic Act 1988) to pay third party claims under these circumstances.
Insert_Random_Acct@reddit
Sorry, badly worded. They will ask them to complete a Consent and Indemnity, then pursue him for the claim/legal costs anyway. Ultimately, the insurer isn't going to take losing money over a non-disclosure.
therealhairykrishna@reddit
When I had an insurance claim my insurer did a 3 way call with me and some bod from the DVLA. Probably would have been a problem if I was lying about my points.
EUskeptik@reddit
“Asking for a mate.”
Yeah, right. 🧐
-oo-
SJTaylors@reddit
It's difficult to know fully depending on provider etc but it's unlikely his insurance would be voided, it is a possibility though!
What's more likely is if it hasn't been factored in the insurance provider will charge him the difference in what the yearly cost would have been if he had disclosed it.
There's also a chance if he has an accident they don't even realise.
They also do validity checks on renewals so there's a possibility it is factored in without him even telling them.
SnooCakes1636@reddit
As someone who worked in motor insurance (albeit almost 2 decades ago) this is the best answer so far.
The policy almost certainly will cover any 3rd party losses and injuries under RTA. It may not cover damage to their ow vehicle though - effectively cover may be reduced to 3rd party only.
This is extremely rare, though.
The most likely scenario in the event of an accident is that additional premiums will be due, and will be enforced/backdated to the time the offence was committed even if several renewals have taken place. Furthermore, those premiums may not just be the difference in policy price compared to what they should have paid; they may now represent a higher risk and be substantially more.
For example not declaring a ban and points for drink driving until caught out several years later is likely to be a higher risk profile than someone who declares it immediately.
These premiums need to be paid on top of any excess due before any repairs are made or total loss payments due.
I recall one exceptional case I worked on where the claim was repudiated and policy cancelled because not only were there undisclosed motoring convictions, but the vehicle was being used to hire and reward (private hire vehicle). Still, 3rd party damage was covered under minimum RTA cover.
Of course, the industry may have changed but I don’t think it will have drastically
jimicus@reddit
The insurer HAS to cover third party losses under RTA.
But they can sue OP's friend for their costs. If that friend owns a house - not any more they don't.
chasex05@reddit (OP)
To be honest I’m not sure what insurance he is with. I doubt it is already factored in as the insurance stayed the same price but the cheapest quote from all the other providers were at the very least more than double or triple. But I could be wrong! Best case scenario I guess is if there was an accident they didn’t find out or if they did find out, they just charge the difference. Although the risk of them voiding it and having to declare on future insurances or potentially voided after an accident might not be worth it
jimicus@reddit
So many people have picked up a few points here and there for speeding that it seldom makes a big difference to your premiums.
Conclusion: I don't know what your mate was done for, but it wasn't speeding. Not unless he was already on six points and the latest batch took him up to 9.
SJTaylors@reddit
Oh I would 100% be declaring it, if points are bad for his insurance premiums having to declare a voided insurance is going to be much worse!!
Hopefully you get it all sorted!
VariousBeat9169@reddit
I’ve worked in insurance for 40 years, 100% his insurance will be invalid. They automatically do a check at claim stage and it will show up.
Theunluckyone7@reddit
I thought they usually do it when setting up the policy too? Or not in this case because he wasn't a new customer?
VariousBeat9169@reddit
Exactly this, a new customer would be tun through the checks.
Theunluckyone7@reddit
Thanks, not up to anything just curious 😅
VariousBeat9169@reddit
No probs, the rule is never to lie to an insurer.
jimicus@reddit
Depends on the insurer.
Some will do all the checks when they take the customer on; others won't bother until you have a claim.
soundman32@reddit
They will gladly take your money if there is no claim. Its basically a win win for the insurer. Either they keep a few hundred quid if you dont claim, or they invalidate your policy if you do.
Theunluckyone7@reddit
I was still told they do these checks
Desperate-Drawer-572@reddit
What checks do they do
VariousBeat9169@reddit
MIB database, DVLA, any claims or licence points are checked.
seven-cents@reddit
He's an idiot. They will find out sooner or later and then void his insurance. If that happens he will have a big problem finding anyone who is willing to insure him except for an exorbitant price.
Insurance companies will also do anything to avoid paying out, so if he's involved in an accident they will find out immediately when doing their due diligence checks, and refuse to pay out.
whatmichaelsays@reddit
It's worse than that.
If he's liable, the insurer will pay out to the third-party, and then seek to reclaim their costs from him.
God forbid that the person he hits is injured to such an extent that they need lifelong care and an adapted property, because they'll be taking him for the roof over his head and the shirt off his back.
seven-cents@reddit
All for the sake of 4 points on his license and paying a bit more on premiums until the conviction is spent
jimicus@reddit
Usually what will happen is the insurance company will happily take his money and continue to offer him insurance.
Until the day he has a claim. Then they'll check what points he has.
Lying to an insurer will have several consequences:
Additional-Guard-211@reddit
His current insurance is invalid. The risks are that the cover is removed which he will then have to declare for life. He will get more points for no insurance if he is in an accident. He can also be sued if he crashes into another car or hurt someone- which can obviously be expensive so if he owns any expensive assets like a house that could be gone (although i understands thats not easy for the other insurers to get). He playing with fire thats for sure!
Haunting-Button-4281@reddit
Your insurance is void, wont pay out and you will be prosecuted for no insurance as well as whatever has happened
Brsuk1@reddit
I think you’re overthinking your friend’s situation. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked how many points I have as part of my car insurance. Worked for DirectLine for years going back 15 years now but again it wasn’t ever a question. As far as I am aware for Car Insurance you don’t have to tell them about speeding points. Some ask for your licence number and then it’s down to them to check I guess. If they were ever banned, then yes they would normally need to declare but not for speeding points.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
You won’t be insured as your policy would be invalid.
AutoModerator@reddit
Please help keep AskUK welcoming!
When replying to submission/post please make genuine efforts to answer the question given. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. If a post is marked 'Serious Answers Only' you may receive a ban for violating this rule.
Don't be a dick to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
This is a strictly no-politics subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.