Did you know that Bulgaria is now classified as an advanced economy?

[-]

coleto22@reddit

I'm from Bulgaria. We have a few decent industries like IT outsourcing, but the rest is pretty bad. We're not advanced at all.

[-]

Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

I mean, in comparison to like 80% of the world, Bulgaria is a spaceship.

[-]

coleto22@reddit

Maybe. But including us, and not Poland or Romania is weird.

I'd say in many respects China has a more advanced economy than us.

[-]

tellsyoutogetfucked@reddit

China has very advanced cities and that's where it ends. Overall they have a shockingly poor population for a global superpower.

[-]

maximhar@reddit

China is by most measures less advanced. It's just unfathomably huge.

[-]

Familiar-Custard-216@reddit

Bulgaria is a spaceship because it’s not crime ridden or at war or has ecological disasters

But overall the country does not have a strong manufacturing base, nor strong research institutions, nor resources like oil.

If your country relies only on tourism or agriculture or outsourced work then I wouldn’t even consider it a developed economy, let alone advanced

[-]

cutesunflower_@reddit

Even the IT outsourcing is going downhill in Sofia now. 😂 I assume it is because of the euro adoption.

[-]

We are not as cheap as we were 5-10 years ago. Prices have gone up, people expect higher salaries - which is normal. But at the same time, the IT outsourcing is hitting a wall globally. A lot of people think they can outsource their projects to AI... which works about as well as a junior outsourced coder, to be honest, and is cheaper.

[-]

Substratas@reddit (OP)

I’d never expect this level of modesty from a Balkaner. But maybe I’m used to the west coast Balkaners…

[-]

Obulgaryan@reddit

Its a shithole, but the best shithole in the world

[-]

Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit

That is solely because of the adoption of Euro and it happened to Croatia as well. It does not mean much, just the way IMF bases its classifications.

Poland is not classified as that despite being a lot more developed, simply because Poland still uses the zloty.

[-]

SituationRoyal6535@reddit

Exactly. Greece being "advanced" economy is making me chortle out my sauerkraut.

[-]

Failed_General@reddit

The crisis was of course horrible, great depression style but significantly more lengthy and we have all sorts of problems because of that. For better or for worse this mostly manifests itself more the lower you are on the income levels. Large greek companies are once again making bank and are expanding internationally, macro indicators are all fairly healthy and the fiscal situation is rapidly improving, tourism is breaking new records injecting huge amounts of cash in the economy (even if its done the wrong way) and at the end of the day, at nominal prices, gdp wise (and hdi) we are not half bad by eastern levels. Oh, I also forgot, the stock exchange in athens is amongst the best performing over the last couple of years and is now much larger in market cap than many countries of a similar population and economy. I believe it was recently announced that its also once again a "developed" instead of an "emerging" one The real issue arises when you start comparing incomes after tax at PPP terms, this is unfortunately still a disaster, bottom of the EU bad, and a long way from being solved. If Bulgaria qualifies for developed status, then greece surely does as well, i just hope that the massive macro-wins will start manifesting themselves more in everyday life a bit more quickly

[-]

No-Championship-4632@reddit

Great, since we are now an advanced economy, could they repair the sidewalks in my neighbourhood? Some of them are in dire need of repairs, parents can't push strollers on that shit, they are forced to do that on the street.

[-]

Familiar-Custard-216@reddit

Well the reason why our economy is so “strong” is because companies exploit low taxes and the low standards of living for Bulgarians

People talk about Poland, Czechia, Romania, China or any manufacturing country falling into the middle income trap. Bulgaria fell into the low income trap, where your entire country’s economy is based on shitty industries like tourism or outsourced shitty tech jobs or the sale of addictive products like gambling

[-]

maximhar@reddit

Pretty much every EU country is now beyond "middle income". Bulgaria was classified as high-income a few years ago too, the last remaining EU country to make the transition.

[-]

Familiar-Custard-216@reddit

It doesn’t matter whether a Bulgaria is a high income country relative to the world average, since they have not been part of the world market since 2007.

Bulgaria’s gdp, as well as most Eastern European countries’s, is overinflated by being in the EU and buying/selling at EU prices unrestricted.

Bulgaria was poorer by gdp per capita before 2007 to Thailand and Brazil. If they joined the EU tmr, I can guarantee you by 8 years time they would have eclipsed our GDP per capita.

So I don’t agree with these classifications about “high income” or “advanced economy”. Bulgaria at the end of the day is not resource rich with oil, it has weak research institutions and has limited manufacturing base. The competitive edge of the Bulgarian economy is low wages and how low the standards are for Bulgarian workers

[-]

No-Championship-4632@reddit

Bulgarian economy is not (yet) in the low income trap and the reasons are simple enough - it does not fulfill the criteria for that. Income levels are not stagnant and GDP growth rate is still ahead of the developed economies. It is in the risk zone though since it has relatively weak institutions and insufficient infrastructure. Tourism has a relatively little share of the GDP, unlike other Balkan countries such as Greece or Croatia.

[-]

tinmanjk@reddit

that's beneath the work that advanced economies do, so we are outta luck I guess :(

[-]

Substratas@reddit (OP)

Chile, I’m so confused rn, like, if Albanians saw Albania highlighted in this map, the vast majority would be like ”hell yeahhh, ofc we’re among them, like duuuuh”.

I didn’t know y’all were so modest & down to Earth.

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Bulgaria not only over Romania, but Poland too? Hungary as well?

[-]

Substratas@reddit (OP)

Bulgaria eating

https://i.redd.it/lezzy5kwrdvg1.gif

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

I don't know, I've been to Bulgaria (and no hate) it didn't seem like they were doing that great, even compared to us, I feel that we're doing better when it comes to the economy (even if we're full r word).

Hungary is millions of miles ahead of Romania for example, same for Poland in comparison with all of Eastern Europe.

So, idk what Bulgaria ate, good for them if it's so good, but highly doubtful.

[-]

Archaeopteryx111@reddit

How is Hungary millions of miles ahead of Romania? Hungarians cross the border to work in Oradea now…

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

See the industry, the agriculture, the tourism, the villages, the agriculture, the cities.

Miles ahead. We've got population and more money, but we're behind in everything else.

[-]

Infamous_Dish_4348@reddit

Mostly agree but Hungarian roads (not the motorway) are a warzone, especially in the east.

Budapest is amazing though and mogs tf out of Bucharest and Sofia.

[-]

Archaeopteryx111@reddit

Budapest was an imperial capital for hundreds of years. What was Bucharest?

[-]

Infamous_Dish_4348@reddit

Yeah that's a fair point and it would be ridiculous to expect Bucharest to have the same concentration of historical architecure.

But infrastructure and cleanliness is also a lot better in Budapest.

[-]

Archaeopteryx111@reddit

The Bucharest metro is far more extensive than the Budapest one. I think Bucharest is improving much faster than Budapest, so in a decade, the city will be much better.

[-]

ExoticAd7546@reddit

It is all because the elites love Bulgaria obviously. How much are you paying on your motrage or government debt. I got 2% mortage rate 2 years before joining the eurozone even how is it in your stable prosperous economy?

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

I have no debt, paid upfront.

[-]

ExoticAd7546@reddit

Damn at those rates I would hesitate to make use of debt as well.

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Imagine being indebted to your banking masters, couldn't be me. That's why the vast majority of Romanians don't even use banks.

Loan sharks are loan sharks regardless of the pompous terms being applied to them.

Good luck on the variable interest mate, o7.

[-]

ExoticAd7546@reddit

I can pay out my debt fully if I want tomorrow it is just cheaper and more profitable to keep it devaluing at these rates. Too bad your goverernment doesn't take a note from the the wisdom of the people when it comes to debt.

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Mate, all of the planet runs on debt. I'd rather not implicate the government in my personal life, while there might be changes in the future regarding variable rates on housing (especially in Eastern Europe).

You get sick tomorrow, you'll get a bailiff at your doorstep, get evacuated and have your house foreclosed.

I'm a normal individual, that knows how things work in relation to debt and laws (because of my profession) so I'd rather not suck up to any government (especially the ones in our geographical location) because I know what is up (especially with the banking industry and the governmental subsidies).

Cheers and again, good luck on the debt!

[-]

ExoticAd7546@reddit

I agree and the credit rating of your country and the interest rates are a major indicator of the stability and advancement of your economy. Anyways you seem pretty confident in your judgment as a "normal individual" in comparison to the experts in the IMF. No hard feeling I am just tired of the "vibes" opinions overall in this current state of the world.

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Mate, no offense, I've been to Bulgaria, you can keep the rating. It feels like you're getting emotional and insulting Romania for not being slaves to the banks, like you so proudly present the current situation.

To each its own. Poland deserved to be there as it is objectively above anything else in Eastern Europe (and probably above many of the Western countries) but other than that, it's just you venting and being #1.

Good luck with whatever agenda you're pushing, still not buying the propaganda.

[-]

ExoticAd7546@reddit

No one is venting about being #1 or claiming Bulgaria is more developed than Poland. I would suggest checking the specific criteria related to this ranking as obviously it is accurate and does not cover every aspect of the economy. At the current situation your contry is close to being slave to the banks and near garbage credit rating so idk why you are even bringing this up with regards to Bulgaria.

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Ok, mate. You're bragging about "being loved by the banking masters" and talking shit about a country you've got no clue about -_-. Meanwhile I've been to Bulgaria, had a wonderful experience in some places, saw a lot of places that are dumpsters even compared to Romania, had food poisoning and saw prices that are equivalent to those here.

But alas, you keep on kissing your governments ass (for whatever reason), while believing this rating is somehow relevant (advanced economy on pickles, whilst having no government for 3 years).

Idk man, I am envious on your pure copium.

gif

[-]

ExoticAd7546@reddit

Yeah surely the banking masters just love Bulgaria they do not rely on thousands of indicators to estimate risk and advancement in their estimations to make more money

[-]

Stealthfighter21@reddit

Romania is a paper tiger. It's "doing well" but now it's time to pay for it all.

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

We're not even a tiger, we're a rabbit. We sleep most of the time, run for 99% of the way.

I'd rather we'd been a steady turtle like Poland, 3% growth rate annually for the past 36 fucking years!

[-]

maximhar@reddit

Hungary? Hungary is the poorest country in the EU by some measures now, it looks shinier because it's been wealthy for a lot longer. But trust me, the average Romanian is living better.

[-]

abandonedtulpa@reddit

Like others are saying, it’s because of the eurozone. Otherwise, the situation here is pretty bleak, as you’ve seen yourself

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

Was there any negative effects because of eurozone? Or any positives?

[-]

CilpKonn@reddit

Prices have gone up

[-]

StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit

How much?

[-]

CilpKonn@reddit

Prices were already rising before the euro, but now things are getting ridiculous. Some services and goods have almost doubled in price. What was considered expensive just a few years ago is now the new cheap.

[-]

Critical-Ad-8507@reddit

I guess it is per capita .Bulgaria's population is barely over a 3rd of Romania's.

[-]

No_Aardvark_6599@reddit

I have been to Bulgaria many times. It seems to be stuck in the '90s , don't seem like an advanced economy at all...I have seen cars in Sofia that i forgot even exist ( 90's Opels, VWs etc) .

The roads are also made for tractors, not cars...

[-]

Fair_Internet_5839@reddit

Bulgaria is a Balkan country with a Balkan mentality, showing off success is seen as inviting bad things to one's life. Also, the government is corrupt and inefficient.

Nonetheless, Bulgaria's one of the most frugal countries in the world. Debt to GDP is 27%, unheard for a country of Bulgaria's credit rating and GDP per Capita. It hasn't borrowed money to build the cosmetics, and it isn't investing in propaganda so you hear about it.

The private sector in Bulgaria is doing miracles though. If you are deep in the regional economies, you will learn of Bulgarian companies that are doing incredible things. The second biggest manufacturer of micro-satellites (after SpaceX) is a Bulgarian company called EnduroSAT, one of the best performing and innovative European companies in the smart appliances sector is also a BG company, called Shelly Group (I have it in my home in China, they have a department here).

And since I'm Chinese, I will alsk give you an example within the fashion industry: ByFar, one of the fastest growing fashion brands for bags and shoes is also Bulgarian. They have two huge stores in Shanghai and Beijing, making hundreds of billions.

Bulgaria also have other unicorn-level or near unicorn start-ups and is one of the best performing in per Capita terms in the world.

[-]

maximhar@reddit

I mean Bulgarians love to show off success, but the country is very unevenly developed. Even in Sofia you will have supercars next to 20 year old VW Golfs.

[-]

Fair_Internet_5839@reddit

Not in the same way as china. What you are referring to is a subgroup of the Bulgarian population, generally related to a certain stereotype. And this type of show-off is outward, and because it is mainly displayed by less educated portion of the population, looks silly and uncultured. There is no tradition in Bulgaria to shine through having a good, well-kept lawn, perfectly cut flowers, well-maintained infrastructure within one' s property, etc. You will see that WITHIN people's homes, but not outside.

The well-educated, wealthier older degenrations, do not show off. Additionally, I've had situations, where a Chinese businessman, who's company had lost 10% of revenue, was asked, "how is business"? And his response was, "Pretty good, there are challenges, but are moving ahead!" Then the same guy returned this question to my father-in-law, whose business grew by 40% percent that year with, "it's never gonna be good, but at least we manage to put food on the table".

I hope this illustrates the cultural part. Of course there is inequality, but culture soook much more important than people presume.

In china, there is social pressure for you to have the nicest looking stuff in order to not be judged "as lagging behind". This works within the government and the individuals. China is highly competitive society.

Bulgaria is far less judgemental and chill, so people don't feel ashamed to drive an old car (my father in law has a 100,000€ Audi and a 1000€ renault megane from 1998), the government doesn't feel pressure to keep things pretty, etc.

I was hearing last year that instead of investing in sidewalks, the governemnt in Sofia decided to increase salaries for government officials by 50%. This will never happen in China, but in Bulgaria higher salaries bring more votes than sidewalks.

It's annoying that so many beautiful buildings and infrastructure is neglected, but at the moment I think it is ok to tolerate it because of demographics. Bulgaria is competing with half of the developed world for human resources, and getting incomes close to eu average should be top priority. After Bulgaria can consistently attract people, they can start thinking about making things prettier. The only think that they should not sacrifice in my opinion is large infrastructure projects that are boosting the economy, like highways and railways. This can slow future growth and I think it's okay to borrow for this, Bulgaria has been too prudent and slow in building infrastructure.

[-]

Fatalaros@reddit

[-]

victimized777@reddit

Bulgaria, advance economics, lmfao

[-]

Sad_Attention_6626@reddit

Advanced economy my ass, we have no industry, foreign investments are declining, there's a looming financial crisis but thank the God of the Euro for putting us (according to the demented IMF criteria) ahead of Czechia, Poland and China. Pure slop.

[-]

WorldlinessRadiant77@reddit

Lol you sound like a kopeck.

Bulgaria has plenty of industry, the only decline you can speak about is in the rate of industrial expansion. And stop sucking China’s dick - Bulgaria has twice the income and a 30% higher GDP per capita than China.

[-]

Professional-Fee-488@reddit

You my friend clearly do not understand how China works or what it even is. It's a vast country with unimaginably massive population. It doesn't operate how you think, it has 34 administrative divisions plus 4 municipalities, think of all of those as separate states with their local governments who enforce the laws somewhat arbitrarily, and then there's of course the central government, the CCP, the municipality of Beijing, who legislates state wide constitutional framework. Let me just hit you with some basic numbers, I live and work in Guangdong, just this one province has a nominal gpd of around 2 trillion usd, a single province, entire country of Bulgaria has a nominal gdp of less than 150 billion, let that sink in. Heck, even a single Chinese city, for example Shanghai, has a nominal gdp of 850 billion, that's 5.5x more than Bulgaria, a single city. No offense but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, the infrastructure here is so far ahead of Balkans that's it's going to take decades for us to even get close. They manufacture EVERYTHING man, it's hard to comprehend what that does fkr the economy until you spend a couple if years living here, endless seas of skyscrapers, ports, construction sites, airports, tens of thousands of kilometers of high speed railway, not to mention the absolute control over global supply of rare earth minerals. Now, I've seen some copium in my life, but to even think about comparing Bulgaria to mofo China truly is next level mind boggling delusion.

[-]

Fair_Internet_5839@reddit

It seems that you do not understand china my friend. I am Chinese myself, so let me tell you. China's economy is export based and nominal incomes have stagnated since covid, tier 1 and tier 2 cities in China are on advanced level, the rest of the country isn't it. Cities like guangzhou or even Shenzhen has a lower GDP per Capita than Sofia. Try to understand the Chinese culture, it's all about mianzi 面子, while in the balkans it is not, it's bad to stand out. China's top tier infrastructure is paid by local governments through land sales and huge loans that they are struggling to pay, while large scale national projections are built by the central government, which is also getting very indebted (over 90% this year of GDP). Bulgaria on the other hand, is one of the most frugal countries in the EU, at a debt level of around 27% of GDP, which is unheard for a country with Bulgaria's credit rating, and has been consistently underspending and ignoring a lot of the cosmetics.

[-]

No-Championship-4632@reddit

Bulgarian crybaby smashed lol :)

[-]

Sad_Attention_6626@reddit

Not sucking anyone's dick, not a kopeika, but any way you slice it, Bulgaria's economy is a low value added one, you can look up charts regarding import balances. I was also giving China as an example of the IMF's flawed criteria, they are certainly lagging in GDP per capita (although the usefulness of such a metric is debatable)

[-]

Beautiful-Dish-6275@reddit

You are most def ahead of China per capita.

Chinas image is kinda inflated because of their global relevance, but that is backed by their massive population.

[-]

Suitable-Decision-26@reddit

Believe you me, there is nobody more surprised than us.

[-]

sodoff42@reddit

advanced economies: the eurozone the us canada the uk straya ROK Japan all of scandinavia

[-]

CilpKonn@reddit

Funny, my pockets seem to be getting more holes by the day

[-]

tinmanjk@reddit

I think that's some payback for taking the Euro

[-]

Ok_Eagle_3079@reddit

Or maybe it has something to do with the boss of the IMF

[-]

dwartbg9@reddit

It doesn't. If it worked that way, we would've gotten A LOT of benefits and help from her.

She was also the Boss of Unesco and we didn't get a single new historical place added, even though we have many ones that need to, in order to get better protection.

Sadly this time, corruption.exe doesn't work in that institution. Even sometimes she would be against our side

[-]