Joxer should not had been in "A Family Affair" imo
Posted by itsascreambaby96@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 17 comments
I know Joxer is important in X&G's lives but removing him from that episode wouldn't change much it should have been a solo episode like the first two episodes of Xena in Potedia. Joxer didn't much in the episode and we don't even see him reunite with Gabrielle until the next episode In Sickness and In Hell
IseQween@reddit
One of the most dramatic moments was when Gabs is walking thru the woods, but at that point we think it's Hope. Somebody was needed to confront Hope, building suspense while Gabby reunited with Xena. Joxer was perfect for that. I considered Joxer "family" appropriate for inclusion. I mean, he loved Gabs, watched her "die," was Xena's sidekick during her quest to find Gabs. Heh, later Xena's bridesman at her aborted marriage to Ares. I didn't see a reason to show him reuniting with Gabs, since it would've been a repeat of his reaction in the beginning when it was actually Hope.
Joxer also added believability and depth to the ep in other ways. He's one of the few characters who on a couple of occasions questioned Xena's sanity/actions, and her response to him gave clues to how "off" she might be. We witness the contrast between how Gabs' family welcomed him vs. Xena. He added a sense of jeopardy as Spike Boy's victim, as well as a bit of humor in a fairly tense ep. He was a sympathetic witness, distraction, helper, etc. as the plot needed, as well as substitute companion when the Dynamic Duo were separated for some reason.
stellababyforever@reddit
Whenever I watch this episode, I start wondering about what Hope was up to before Xena and Joxer get there. Gabrielle's father was never a fan of Xena, but the way he reacts to her versus Joxer is really interesting. And then when Hope pretends to have been beaten up by Xena, Gabrielle's family is angry, but they don't seem that surprised.
TaniksHasNoCorn@reddit
I guess her family never read any of Gabrielle scrolls otherwise they would have realized that sometimes "Gabrielle awoke with a jerk" 🤣
It is funny also how Lila is smitten with Joxer.
It's probably one of those situations where they had pre-conceive notions of Xena and would use any negative event to play the whole "see I told ya so" game that sadly happens a lot in life by parents who judge their children's friends or partners before getting full context.
SakuraTacos@reddit
I always wonder what Hope was doing with the family before A Family Affair. I imagine she was reveling in what it felt like to have a loving family while she was sneaking out at night to take care of The Destroyer
Gabby’s parents didn’t want her getting close to Xena from the get go. They knew some of her reputation as a warlord when she showed up in Poteidaea in SOTP. So they wouldn’t have been shocked if Xena hurt Gabrielle, they were expecting that kind of behavior. Whereas Joxer had a clean slate and he seemed to be an eligible bachelor, and they wanted Gabby married.
stellababyforever@reddit
Oh yes, totally. Hope must have been a busy girl in the months before Xena found her. It must have been hard for them after they found out that Hope had been impersonating Gabrielle that whole time.
TheCuri0usWatcher@reddit
It actually didn't take much for her family to side with Gabby/Hope either, despite Gabby seemingly being away in Xena's care for 3-5 years at this point?
I wonder if Hope was crap talking Xena to them, or if it was that "power/charm" that she had over her followers like with Gabby's friend...uhhh Serafin/Seraphin?
Or if it was just over protective parents wanting their child to come home. Obviously Gabby's been ok, but I guess that was their first time meeting Xena too. So all they knew, Gabby was just being a rebellious teenager/young adult.
Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit
Hard disagree.
It was good to have someone else Gabrielle is close to being fooled by Hope's charade. It made the moment where Xena figures out that Gabrielle is not Gabrielle hit that much harder - telling the only other person that knows who Hope is. And we wouldn't have that moment where both Xena and Joxer are sneaking up on who they think is Hope, and only one of them is correct.
TAFKA_DarkSpecterSBM@reddit
An interesting note from someone who watched this episode upon original airing:
There was discussion at the time of how "Gabrielle" kissing Joxer hello was meant to be a cue to the AUDIENCE that something was up, immediately. And many fans did catch that.
Because even Renee at the time of BTDT was outspoken of how some writers, in her opinion, got the level of reciprocal affection Gabrielle would give Joxer at various stages of the series. Joxer was head over heels but Gabby was brutally cold towards him, long after Xena had come around.
So having her enthusiasticly kiss Joxer hello, and Joxer's response? Is meant to be the VERY first cue of, "ok... that's a little odd. But maybe she's just feeling weird after the near death experience...."
But it is meant for the AUDIENCE who has seen all the pieces of interaction for X/G, X/J, and G/J to clock it as being FISHY.
And you wouldn't get that little nod without Joxer.
TaniksHasNoCorn@reddit
This is a great point. Gabrielle would not have normally behaved that way towards Joxer, especially with all the trauma that happened to her throughout the season.
I do think Joxer is a good character to have in the episode as the bumbling side kick and because he was also a player in the episodes leading up (Sacrifice more so than Adventures in The Sin Trade). Not having him in it would seem like an oversight as there would be no closure between his character an the primary protagonists after the events without later saying "Hey Gabbie, weren't you dead?" with Gabrielle responding "It's a long story"....
Every once in a while he gets to do something heroic. He's kind of like Minya (except worse at combat) or even Lila. They serve as people Xena and Gabrielle get to act off of who aren't villains or the random good character of the week who you never see again.
You sort of need Joxer to be the skeptic with Gabrielle being alive to kickstart the arc of the episode and get Xena to provide the exposition of "Gabrielle going for home if she were alive".
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Definitely agree with those reasons.
TheCuri0usWatcher@reddit
This!!! You know, I NEVER thought of that parallel but it's like when Xena tried convince Gabby that baby Hope was evil. Joxer was fully convinced Hope was Gabby. Although it was a very brief interaction between Xena & Joxer, but Joxer KNEW Hope and was still fooled for a minute!!
See this is why I LOVE this forum because yall make me look at things from a fresh angle I never would have considered.
Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit
Xena even said Hope's act was "good", meaning she knows how to fool Gabrielle's closest friends and family with more than just her physical appearance.
When Hope met Joxer during Sacrifice and pretended to be Gabrielle asking him about his feelings, she pretty much used that against him during the reunion scene where she kissed him on the cheek, and he passed out.
Then later on, we see him hanging upside down while Hope talks about feeding him to her son. Joxer's presence in the episode definitely helped sell Hope's guile and made her revelation all the more chilling.
antealtares@reddit
Xena needs him as an ally. And I think it does a very neat job establishing a little bit of a familial bond between X and Joxer when that had always been run through Gabrielle. I am not even a Joxer fan but I think he enriches the story in this episode.
Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit
And it made sense to see Joxer at the temple placing flowers where Gabrielle fell. He's always honouring his friends when they're dead (including Argo!)
TheCuri0usWatcher@reddit
If it wasn't for Joxer, the tension with the Gabby/Hope reveal would have fallen really flat. It seemed like they (Xena & Joxer) may have been chasing the same person, then when you realize they're different, suddenly it's like "oh crap, who's after who?!" You want Xena to have Hope in her sights, but remember, Xena still can't killnHope because of Ares "condition" with the Fates....and Joxer can't take on Hope...so either way screwed. It was an AMAZING tension build imo.
Also, I like to think despote Joxer's inability to be a useful warrior at this point 😅, he kept the family busy off screen, so Xena & Gabby could do their thing & keep Hope away from Gab's family. Hes way more useful than people give him credit for as a whole. I hate how they slapstick him so much, or use him for crude humor like the "breeding" moment with the Amazon (I still.roll my eyes at that one 🤦♀️) but he is a great character overall with a beautiful arc if you're willing to look deeper, especially in his emotional episodes.
FirebirdWriter@reddit
What changes is the emotional reveal and impact for the characters. What makes Hope reveal herself? What makes things clear to Xena. So I disagree but I also think it's good to consider such things as far as writing goes
Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit
Hope gets mad because he and xena love gabrielle, but gabrielle didn’t love her.